Free Energy Mylow Magnet Motor

[MikeHedge]

Congrats to everyone! it has been completed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4uVuK2Ec6Y

2010 is gonna be intense.

[Kwan Khan]

Interesting...

[Eren Ozkural]

Interesting concept.

I was rather taken aback and to a degree fascinated by the constant annotations that pop up saying that he will never repeat this and that he wants to be left alone. There's also a tremor...almost an urgency in his voice.

Makes it look like some men in black visited him the other night and trashed his house.

:couch:

[MikeHedge]

ya, I guess you are not in the loop with what has been happening... several people have been murdered... his earlier youtube account was taken down... he was visited by BlackOps...

anyways, the world owes him one for finally getting it working and posted. it's a big shift, but pretty soon many people will be creating replicas.

Steorn seems to be moving ahead nicely. www.steorn.com (http://www.steorn.com)

Red should put an Orbo in the next Scarlet. that would be neat.

Mike

[Eren Ozkural]

Are you serious Mike? Wow, I had no idea. That is so sad.
Thanks for bringing this to my attention, it's something i'll follow closely from now on.

EDIT: For those of you as oblivious to this as I was, here's a good link to read: http://pesn.com/2009/04/03/9501537_Mylow-threatened_told_to_stop/
Jeez, I was just kidding about the MIBs...

[Graeme Nattress]

I like the bit where you buy the plans for $25, but the disclaimer is: "As more time goes by and people have not yet been able to replicate his work, we are less optimistic that this will be an easy task. Getting the proper configuration of magnets with the substitute magnets has proven to be quite difficult."

Graeme

[Karl Gustav H.]

In this house, we obey the laws of thermodynamics!
http://www.anreimann.com/homer-pointing.gif
RN: Karl Gustav H.

[David Rasberry]

Our understanding of physics has changed radically in the last five years.

www.atomicprecision.com

ECE theory has corrected the mathematical errors and wrong assumptions of Einsteins general relativity. Under unified field theory, Mylow's motor and many other " free energy" designs are possible and do not violate thermodynamics or conservation of energy. The energy source is the primordial charge state of the vacuum that drives everything in the universe. Engineering practical systems is still a very challenging and difficult undertaking, but the mathematics and physics to support it are now known and proven beyond doubt.

Most of 20th century theoretical physics has been swept into the dustbin of history as speculative and unprovable based on erroneous mathematics. Theories that have been disproven by correct geometry, computer analysis and experimental data include big bang, dark energy, dark matter, Heisenberg uncertainty, multiple-dimensions (more than 4), string theory and black holes, (there are no singularities in nature, they are a product of incorrect geometry). Needless to say this steps on a lot of entrenched and well funded interests, but it is great to see physics in the hands of experimental empiricists once again.

[Eren Ozkural]

I just want to see good, practical results :)

[Graeme Nattress]

As with all, the proof is in the pudding. Without a pudding, or just a youtube video of the pudding, there is no proof.

Graeme

[Ethan Cooper]

As with all, the proof is in the pudding. Without a pudding, or just a youtube video of the pudding, there is no proof.

I'd like some Scarlet pudding please.

[Graeme Nattress]

Scarlet pudding is in the oven. Baking away quite nicely.

Graeme

[Tom Lowe]

I believe that this device would qualify to win the $1 million challenge at the James Randi Educational Foundation if true.

http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html

[Ethan Cooper]

Scarlet pudding is in the oven. Baking away quite nicely.

Scarlet Pudding Recipe:

Combine
.5 lbs plastic
1.5 lbs metal
1 lbs glass
.25 lbs wires

Stir In
1 case Magic Pixies (agitated)
3 oz concentrated innovation

Place in oven on low heat and allow to simmer for 2 years. Season to taste with the modules of your choice.

[sander kamp]

I like the bit where you buy the plans for $25, but the disclaimer is: "As more time goes by and people have not yet been able to replicate his work, we are less optimistic that this will be an easy task. Getting the proper configuration of magnets with the substitute magnets has proven to be quite difficult."

Graeme

Not so long ago there was a company that promised make a 4k digital film camera for under 20k USD. Oh, and they asked for 1000 USD deposit ;)

On a separate note: cold fusion is back again, twenty years after being dismissed as a scam. See here: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/04/17/60minutes/main4952167.shtml?source=RSSattr=60Minutes_4952167

[Graeme Nattress]

And if we'd taken deposits with a similar disclaimer, we'd have been ridiculed too. But Jim gave his guarantee, we all worked hard and make it happen.

When the very people selling it are saying that nobody has been able to duplicate the work, even with the $25 instructions...

But perhaps someone on this forum will make a working one and tell the world....

Graeme

[Tom Lowe]

BTW, Red One never qualified to win Randi's $1 million paranormal challenge, but REDray might. ;)

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Even if it worked it still wouldn't be 'free' energy. The rare-earth magnets had to get magnetized somehow. And I suspect if you attached a generator to that thing you might be able to charge a cell phone over like 3 days.

But as Graeme said. If it's not reproduceable.... then it might as well not exist yet.

[Erik Bien]

What's this, some guy builds a perpetual motion machine in his bedroom, offers YouTube video as proof, offers DIY plans for $25 which nobody else can seem to make work, then recuses himself from further discussion citing fear of mysterious persecution from shadowy forces, and people are skeptical? :out:

If you're going to rewrite the laws of physics in ranty YouTube pop-ups, it might be worth learning how to use spell check ...

[Gavin Greenwalt]

I'm always curious why people seem to think that shadowy government agencies wouldn't want us to have free energy. Oh no the world economy will rapidly expand bringing a new era of peace and prosperity! That must be stopped! ... wait what?

What's the worst that could happen? Detroit goes bankrup--oh right. Well no danger there anymore. Which reminds me. If Detroit is sitting on all these 100mpg car plans. They sure are playing chicken with oblivion to ensure they don't 'lose market share'.

It's so stupid. If any company had their hands on this they would be selling it like mad. "Ford! Now with the 1000mpg/perpetual motion machine!"

[Jonathan Stevenson]

What's this, some guy builds a perpetual motion machine in his bedroom, offers YouTube video as proof, offers DIY plans for $25 which nobody else can seem to make work, then recuses himself from further discussion citing fear of mysterious persecution from shadowy forces, and people are skeptical? :out:

If you're going to rewrite the laws of physics in ranty YouTube pop-ups, it might be worth learning how to use spell check ...
Yep, this has HOAX written all over it. Just a plot to stir up political support of new energy research, being green, and hating the government.

[Daniel Browning]

In this house, we obey the laws of thermodynamics!

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/science.jpg

[sander kamp]

And if we'd taken deposits with a similar disclaimer, we'd have been ridiculed too. But Jim gave his guarantee, we all worked hard and make it happen.

Sure, I am not saying that I believe it, and the chance that it works might be very very slim but the implications if it works are so huge that it actually might be worth the risk.


I'm always curious why people seem to think that shadowy government agencies wouldn't want us to have free energy. Oh no the world economy will rapidly expand bringing a new era of peace and prosperity! That must be stopped! ... wait what?

I agree that you shouldn't believe all conspiracy theories. And the other hand thinking that industries don't protect their interests is kind of the opposite. The oil industry is making trillions of dollars of profits per year, if they can keep doing that by spending a couple of million here and there (let's say by buying up plans to save petrol) than they will do that - it's just logical thinking. Or to keep it with cameras: there is a reason why Canon's DSLR's don't shoot video in 24 fps with manual control.

[Austin Glass]

When I was in the 6th grade, I suggested this exact concept to my science teacher when he was trying to teach us that perpetual motion can't exist. He said that magnets lose their magnetism over time, so eventually this motor would stop. It was kind of discouraging at the time, but it makes sense.

Keep in mind, it's not perpetual unless it outputs more energy than it uses. Not only that, but it's got to be able to use the energy it creates to keep itself running.

Also, hooking a generator up to this will create friction. I'd be willing to bet that you could stop this thing by simply grabbing a hold of it. Even small amounts of friction would devastate the function of this motor.


**EDIT** Perpetual motion needs to at least create as much energy as it uses, not necessarily more.

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Even the "The oil companies buy up any technology which would put them out of business" is complete horse patootie though.

Let's say you have a technology which would not only compete but replace a 3 trillion dollar a year company. This is your greatest achievement as an inventor. Do you:

A) Patent it and start finding investors (hell I would put in thousands of dollars if they could demonstrate a working prototype).
B) Sell it for a million dollars and be glad all that hastle of becoming richer than bill gates will never come to pass.

Yeah... I think everyone so far has chosen B. Because who really wants to start up the next multi-trillion dollar company which also drags millions of people out of poverty and single handedly does more to fight famine and death than any other technology in history?

That doesn't sound like the sort of company I would want to start.

Let's take it a step further. Let's say Exxon had this technology. They may be big. But they also aren't the only player in the game. If they could become THE energy company and destroy their competition you can bet your bottom dollar they would do it.

[Justin Kirchhoff]

The design is simplistic. I've had thoughts about putting this kind of technology into cars. Magnets have so much power potential.

Think of Superman the ride at Six*Flags Magic Mountain, they've powered the ride using electromagnets and switchers to launch the coaster to over 100mph in 4 seconds. The technology is definitely available, people are just afraid to tackle it.

**EDIT** - Link to how they made Superman: The Escape ride.

http://www.thrillride.com/Superman/Superman.html

[Alan Skinner]

The design is simplistic. I've had thoughts about putting this kind of technology into cars. Magnets have so much power potential.

Think of Superman the ride at one of the Six Flags in California, they've powered that right using magnets and switchers to launch the coaster to over 100mph in 4 seconds. The technology is definitely available, people are just afraid to tackle it.

Yes, they power the Superman ride with magnets. "Electromagnets!"

They are pulling 480volts from the main grid to do that work of moving that much mass and using amazing amounts of energy to do it.

You would not be able to do that with a static magnet. At least not twice. You would have to expend as much energy to reload it. Ever try to push two powerful magnets back together?

[Danish P.V.]

Steorn? ;-)

[Danish P.V.]

B) Sell it for a million dollars and be glad all that hastle of becoming richer than bill gates will never come to pass.

Let's take it a step further. Let's say Exxon had this technology. They may be big. But they also aren't the only player in the game. If they could become THE energy company and destroy their competition you can bet your bottom dollar they would do it.

Good points! Any energy corporation that exclusively owned such a technology would make enormous amounts of profits and sooner or later would put all of their competitors out of business since they wouldn`t need any coal, gas or nuclear fuel.


Yes, they power the Superman ride with magnets. "Electromagnets!"

They are pulling 480volts from the main grid to do that work of moving that much mass and using amazing amounts of energy to do it.


Haha. Definately! (may be a small detail, but nontheless essential :-D

Justin...so what you thought about doing was putting an electric motor into a car?? Since those coaster`s actuators are uncoiled electromotors (simply spoken)

[Valeriu Campan]

Or to keep it with cameras: there is a reason why Canon's DSLR's don't shoot video in 24 fps with manual control.

Next Canon camera will shoot at 33 fps. Nobody will need it, but they'll do it just to prove they are better than Nikon or Panasonic. And guess what, they will sell at least 1 million units before they launch the next one, because the salesperson in that xMart store will convince those people that 33 fps is much better than 24 or 25fps.

[sander kamp]

Let's say you have a technology which would not only compete but replace a 3 trillion dollar a year company. This is your greatest achievement as an inventor. Do you:

A) Patent it and start finding investors (hell I would put in thousands of dollars if they could demonstrate a working prototype).
B) Sell it for a million dollars and be glad all that hastle of becoming richer than bill gates will never come to pass.

Most inventors are not good businessmen. The best businessmen are those who use other people's inventions to set up a business, look at Microsoft, Apple, RED...

And it's a myth that the best technology will automatically surface. Look at the combustion engine: it's essentially 100 years old and hasn't changed much while it is inefficient, pollutes, makes noise and is very complicated. But as a business concept it works and makes money, that's why we're still stuck with it.

[Graeme Nattress]

No, because 24p is the film look, and 24 is therefore better than 30, their next camera will do 20p because 20p is even more filmic than 24p. It must be so, it follows the fps logic.

Oops. They already did that....

Graeme

[Valeriu Campan]

No, because 24p is the film look, and 24 is therefore better than 30, their next camera will do 20p because 20p is even more filmic than 24p. It must be so, it follows the fps logic.

Oops. They already did that....



This proves that they are way ahead of you...

[Valeriu Campan]

We are forgetting that the REAL films, the FIRST REAL FILMS were shot at 18 fps.

That will be for the next model!

Isn't sweet to go back to basics?

[Wayne Morellini]

Boy, you are an unobjective lot. Cynics, ..I mean skeptics, a bit laughable in a bewildering way. On the one hand you have got people that will believe in most anything, and on the other hand a group of nut cases that will believe in almost nothing. Objectivity, rationality, out the window, as long as it "agrees" with their viewpoint.

There has been many such claimed inventions. One of the recent famous ones was by a local inventor who was a neighbour of a friend (only got to meet his partner). There used to be a magazine here on all this stuff and people experimenting.

I too concluded that the energy source might be from the process making the magnet, or from vacuum energy, rather than being a true net energy producer for most of these (guess how many fakes).

When I was thirteen my science teacher also had said that perpetual motion didn't work and she illustrated why, within 30 seconds I had a design, and within 15 minutes I had converted the design to practical magnetics. I then concluded that it was a threat to world economic security (energy industry) and abandoned it... Stuff like that. Would it have worked, depends on how field interactions can be made to work. The net effect, is normally zero (minus losses from the system) what you gain here you loss there, which is always a problem when talking to the average free energy novice.

Trying to get energy to do what you unusually want it to do in general, is difficult, but that is what engineers are for, not cynics.. I mean, skeptics ;) .

[Wayne Morellini]

The problem with youtube, is that it is full with amateur cynics .. I mean skeptics ... ;) that make fake videos on exotic stuff. Who else would normally fake the evidence? Even a con man is too often a skeptic, I mean cynic ... ;) at heart about other people and these ideas. Otherwise why would he try to con so many people.

[MikeHedge]

wow. so much talk. very exciting. I think my buddy Sean at Steorn (http://www.steorn.com) will have Orbo launched pretty soon. RED should be on the shortlist to work with their technology.

Mike

[Graeme Nattress]

"Sean McCarthy CEO stated that “technical problems arose during the installation of the demonstration unit in the display case on Wednesday evening. These problems were primarily due to excessive heat from the lighting in the main display area. Attempts to replace those parts affected by the heat led to further failures and as a result we have to postpone the public demonstration until a future date.”"

[MikeHedge]

good times that was the day of the live demo that never happened... 07-04-07

that day was intense

Here is my twitter from that day.

http://twitter.com/mikehedge/status/134587932

[Graeme Nattress]

That's like if RED had turned up at NAB 2007 with working RED Ones, but that the lights in the tent overheated all the cameras so they didn't boot, and the KG box and backup player died, the bulb in the Sony 4k projector popped, and someone stole Jarred's laptop and posted up his Maya files for the spinning watch.

Graeme

[MikeHedge]

there is some interesting video from that day.... later in the afternoon he did an interview and told people what happened....

I think that "launch" day was a soft launch any way demonstrating the possibility or a magnetic motor...

they since have gone through heave development and have now brought on a set of 300 scientists that have "certified" it.... sorta... anyways they are now working with 300 companies/ people/product integration people to get the the Orbo technology into devices...

it's magnets... so I wonder how the RED RAID drive will do with this..... hm......

[Justin Kirchhoff]

Justin...so what you thought about doing was putting an electric motor into a car?? Since those coaster`s actuators are uncoiled electromotors (simply spoken)


Yes, I know it sounds ridiculous when you say it that way, but I'm not necessarily talking about the electric motors they have thought about putting into cars or have in cars right now.

There are a bunch of different ways to build a motor to produce electricity as we all know, I was more thinking about powering a car with magnets. I'm pretty sure it's possible, especially after seeing videos like this.

[Graeme Nattress]

We shall see...

[Danish P.V.]

Yes, I know it sounds ridiculous when you say it that way, but I'm not necessarily talking about the electric motors they have thought about putting into cars or have in cars right now.

Just to make sure - I didn`t intended to make fun of you, just was curious.

[David Wyatt]

"Sean McCarthy CEO stated that “technical problems arose during the installation of the demonstration unit in the display case on Wednesday evening. These problems were primarily due to excessive heat from the lighting in the main display area. Attempts to replace those parts affected by the heat led to further failures and as a result we have to postpone the public demonstration until a future date.”"

Ha ha!! That was one hilarious demo - I was following it on the web at the time with much interest - strange choice of venue if I remember correctly - Spitalfields market of all places...not exactly the Science Museum...didn't do them any favours in being taken seriously! Anyway an absolute PR disaster, I think eventually they blamed the failure on damage done to the bearings in transit or something similar :rolleyes:.

[Justin Kirchhoff]

Just to make sure - I didn`t intended to make fun of you, just was curious.

No harm done. I also figured that I didn't explain myself well enough.

[Joseph Ward]

Wish Free Energy would happen but seems it won't. At least within a couple of decades for commercial use. Who wouldn't want to own one of these devices that can power your home and car.

I still have hope for EESTOR tech. Battery and ultra-capacitor tech improvements is what is needed most now. Fusion is not for at least 40 years(and not for individuals to own) and wind/water/solar/geothermal/etc. renewables are what we have now that is clean and abundant. Once people start driving plug-ins vehicles that will be a major game changer. Consumers and businesses will buy tech that power their vehicles and homes/businesses to save on cost for long term.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EEStor
http://www.chevrolet.com/electriccar/

[MikeHedge]

the link is now dead....

anyways the PESNetwork has reposted it...

Here is a new one... definitely not a hoax now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnUKhOjFe5E

________________________________________
decades for commercial use? um... well remember 2012 in 3 years from now. =)

[Graeme Nattress]

Independent duplication is closer to proof, a youtube video without independent observer, verification and testing is not.

Graeme

[MikeHedge]

Graeme, you are an inspiration. what you say is true.

I wish there were not only youtube videos getting posted from all over with people creating the same thing results, but also systems and communities being run off power systems based on the magnetic motor technology.

soon.

[Graeme Nattress]

It would be fantastic, but I've tried to build such things back in the day when such videos went around the world on VHS tape, rather than on YouTube, and they didn't work then... Once burned, twice shy.

That they themselves say nobody else has got the motor working from the plans does indeed set alarm bells off ringing for me.

I fully appreciate the need and want for such things to work, however, they alone are not enough.

Graeme

[MikeHedge]

Graeme. new video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvMbgGcHeEY

[Brandon Fraley]

yeah, I watched this video this morning. I know very little about science, but I don't understand why it wouldn't work, but as everyone else tells me, it's impossible and no one else has gotten it to work, so I guess it's fake. Looks simple enough to me though.

One thing that does bug the shit out of me is how every video he says is his last and he's sick of doing it, and then the next day there's another video. Definitely an annoying dude, regardless of whether it's real or fake.

[Brice Ansel]

Hé hé, Just watch the video, the thing who make me suspicious is the fact that the music is on. I would do the same to hide the sound of a motor.
Brice

[Gavin Greenwalt]

So... he's found a way to save earth... but he's decided that it's too much stress reading critical comments on YouTube to progress.

Wow. This is my kind of hero. *rolls eyes*.

It's rediculously easy to prove you aren't a quack, doubly so with a working prototype. If he has no interest in defending himself, then I see no reason to believe him.

[dand]

be veuy quiet.....

[Steven Caesare]

Um.... why don't the stationary magnets on the top bar repel the magnets "incoming" on the rotor every bit as much as they push the magents "outgoing" on the rotor?

Clearly there is another energy source hidden here.

[Jonathan Stevenson]

Plain and simple- free energy and perpetual motion machines are impossible. IM. POSS. IBLE. It's basic physics. First law of thermodynamics- the total amount of energy in an isolated system remains constant. A consequence of this law is that energy cannot be created or destroyed. The only thing that can happen with energy in an isolated system is that it can change form, that is to say for instance kinetic energy can become thermal energy. Free energy machines imply that the power output is greater than the power input. The law of conservation tells us that this is impossible. Another consequence of this law is that perpetual motion machines can only work perpetually if they deliver no energy to their surroundings, i.e. friction, etc. If such machines produce more energy than is put into them, they must lose mass and thus eventually disappear over perpetual time, and are therefore impossible. There's no such thing as "Something for Nothing" as my physics professor used to say. Whatever mount that magnet plate sits on will always have some friction, period. Friction=Heat=Energy loss. Magnets lose their magnetism over time= Energy Loss.


Not only does the machine not work without some type of help, but even if you could get the device to work properly, it would not be able to output any energy that is of any use! So regardless of whether this machine is real or not, it cannot provide any practical energy output for use in the real world, aside from being fun to stare at.

[Vico Martin]

looks like it can work, if this isolated system have energy itself (magnetic energy) and changes it to kinetic energy.

this people do it work during three months until evident demagnetization:

http://www.pureenergysystems.com/os/MagneticMotors/BMM/HowardJohnson/index.html

the question would be: can magnetic motors be economic efficient??

I don´t think so.

[Jonathan Stevenson]

looks like it can work, if this isolated system have energy itself (magnetic energy) and changes it to kinetic energy.

this people do it work during three months until evident demagnetization:

http://www.pureenergysystems.com/os/MagneticMotors/BMM/HowardJohnson/index.html

the question would be: can magnetic motors be economic efficient??

I don´t think so.

Yes, you're correct. Sorry, I wasn't clear in my last post. The machine itself- the magnets moving the plate- works just fine. To keep running as long as possible, you need minimal friction at the point of rotation. That said, as soon as you add a device to "capture" any energy from the system, i.e. dynamos or generators, the friction from those devices would stop the rotation of the magnets. As I said in the last post, the only way for the magnets to keep turning indefinitely is for there to be no interference with the energy in the system- as soon as you add any resistance to the system, the delicate balance is broken, the machine slows down, and no energy is captured. SO- as a pretty turntable magnet thing, it works great and is cool. As a source of energy- NO

[MikeHedge]

well.... lets hope that somehow the laws can be stretched a bit to include people making magnetic energy motors..

http://www.steorn.com/orbo/technology/

Mike

[Lauri Kettunen]

magnetic energy motors..

Funny ... there's nothing special in magnetic energy. It's about the work done by a generator when building up currents in a circuit. And just because of this energy conservation principle one says the energy is stored in the magnetic field.

[Jonathan Stevenson]

well.... lets hope that somehow the laws can be stretched a bit to include people making magnetic energy motors..

http://www.steorn.com/orbo/technology/

Mike
Mike, there are plenty of magnetic motors out there. The fan in my bedroom uses AC power and magnets to make the fan blades spin. Tesla coils power HMI ballasts. Magnetism is already highly exploited in many types of motors. Spinning a magnet inside a coiled wire induces a current inside a wire. My point is there's no such thing as FREE energy. Power output equals power input, you can't get something for nothing, there is always a cost to any energy source. You can't pull it out of your ass. This nerd on YouTube has done nothing but make a fancy Lazy Susan.

[chuck colburn]

Mike, there are plenty of magnetic motors out there. The fan in my bedroom uses AC power and magnets to make the fan blades spin. Tesla coils power HMI ballasts. Magnetism is already highly exploited in many types of motors. Spinning a magnet inside a coiled wire induces a current inside a wire. My point is there's no such thing as FREE energy. Power output equals power input, you can't get something for nothing, there is always a cost to any energy source. You can't pull it out of your ass. This nerd on YouTube has done nothing but make a fancy Lazy Susan.

Damn!
No free energy! It would have been a timely item to coincide with the release of "Atlas Shrugged" LOL

[Kyle Mallory]

Google "Thomas Moray" and "Radiant Energy". An interesting topic, because his claim was not about over-unity, rather tapping cosmic energy. A radio receiver for high-frequency energy that is pervasive throughout space.

Unfortunately, in a similar situation, no one has been able to successfully reproduce his work.

[David Rasberry]

Roger Penrose, preeminent mathemetician who worked with Stephen Hawkings on black hole theory, commented in a footnote that the principals of thermodynamics while interesting did not rise to the level of proven physical law. From his book " Road to Reality, the Complete Guide to the Laws of the Universe".

[MikeHedge]

Atlas Shrugged! ya one of my favorite books!.

Fee energy. I guess we are talking about several things.

Free can mean something that we don't have to pay for. Like wind and solar. Once we set up the capturing device (solar panels and wind mills/turbine)

I think Magnetic will fall into this category once we set up how to capture the energy, it will be a form of free energy.

As far as the "law" of energy can't be created or destroyed.

I guess we will see. Some how the universe got created from somewhere.

Mike

[Lauri Kettunen]

Some how the universe got created from

Mike, this is a side issue, but you know, that's quite a profound issue. In my view, science, such as physics, does not yield answers to why questions but instead science aims to reveal causality. For example, I think physics does not give an answer why there is gravitation, but instead it tells what is the interaction of gravity to objects. So, in this light it's all about cause and reason. Still, sure, physicist would love to say what is the reason for gravity, but then the beginning of the chain of causality is just set to another level.

What comes to energy conservation, in my understanding it is the foundations of all physics. So, it's one if not the key issue physics from which everything starts. However, physics itself is a model of the nature, so I always found it bit trivial when people say the nature obeys the rules of physics. The finger pointing to the moon is not the moon. So, in this light, who knows, but if I had to bet, I would put quite a lot of money on the energy conservation principle.

[Wayne Morellini]

Yes, I know it sounds ridiculous when you say it that way, but I'm not necessarily talking about the electric motors they have thought about putting into cars or have in cars right now.

There are a bunch of different ways to build a motor to produce electricity as we all know, I was more thinking about powering a car with magnets. I'm pretty sure it's possible, especially after seeing videos like this.

The guy that mostly started this "working" electromagnetic power generation craze off in the 70's (maybe there have been others before that though) reportedly drove the American version of a Purvis Eureka (forget the name but might have been the "Eagle" component car) over a bridge in California with something like a 7KW version, very slowly mind you, I actually have plans or a booklet somewhere. never really bothered to read it so don't even remember how it worked.

[Wayne Morellini]

Most people do not know how to think, and that includes many of us here.

Science does not know what physics is yet, it is still not neatly defined, but big ego's included, they like to make out that most of it is, except when they think they have a solution of course. We guess at the quantum level, but do we know how the quantum level works and is driven. Like Newtonian physics we just assume a statistically probably effect is there that drives things not thinking about what drives those effects. Then Einsteins work came along and people assumed, then quantum physics came along and improbably introduced statistics as a basis. We now are at the stage of assuming we have the answers through Quantum effects, but we see such a large generalised view (that has it's own skewed tastes) but what at a deeper smaller, or simply deeper, level is driving these effects. Then we have to ask what is driving them in turn. Modern research is exploring ever lower scales, but really are these glimpses of particles just glimpses of the physics down there. I have seen some pretty bizarre theories and predictions from quantum mechanics that almost are as if the universe could suddenly come into existence as we experience it today and as it is today, with civilisations, skeptics, life, and even our past memories ad histories intact a second ago by some chance out of the quantum background, with all we knew and ever experienced never having happened, and even every split second the universe dissolving into the background with a identical one reforming the next instance, but one spit second in the future continually over and over again, and how would we know?

I hate to get deep dark and philosophical here (or deep light and philosophical as it turns out) but it looks like at least some of you understand it from past posts. But the "impossible" existence of the universe from seemingly nothing also implies the potential of infinite energy. I am not getting into the scientific debate on it, that breaks down into a impossibility if you think about it correctly, but I agree that despite the the possibility of infinite energy, within our closed system there is normally limited energy and from a closed system you will probably not get out more than is already in there. However, the debate has moved on into tricking the energy surrounding the system into the system, and that from background energy. Apparently, scientifically for space to even exist requires energy to make it. 'nature abhors a vacuum', draw this energy from space and it likely would draw energy from surrounding space to compensate, thus a chain of "non" free energy is formed. Going back to the original "free" energy idea, if there is unlimited energy outside the system, then it would need some trick in physics to draw in that energy from outside the system into the system. As far as producing energy inside the system, see tricks again, but would that not be the same thing. In the next split second you could turn into a duck, but has anybody ever seen a probability happen at large scales not involving effects at the quantum scales, what does that tell you, that there might be something driving the seeming randomness below. If energy is not produced at the quantum scales these effects operate in, when, if things were truly random, it should (past the even average mutual annihilation of vacuum energy) what does that tell you, maybe they are not truly random. At sometime randomness must produce skews in the data, as skewed data is in the set of randomness. 'Ohh, we .. just haven't seen it yet, it takes a long time to come across..", well what have you seen? Theory without proof, so which theory does the actual data suit better.

Well that is how I write when it is really late and I hardly know what I am writing about, so good night, and play well kids.

[Brandon Fraley]

so no more news? fake or not, I've enjoyed following it. The part I don't understand is why there haven't been new people "faking" the result. As has been discussed, it shouldn't be too difficult to make fake "mylow motor", and yet no one in the whole world has posted a video on youtube? Am I the only one that finds that strange? You'd think with all the attention Mylow's received, there would be other making their own fake motors to steal some of his glow.

[MikeHedge]

hey Brandon, yes all of 2007 and 2008 we saw dozens and dozens of people posting fake magnet motor videos on youtube. Sadly each one was proven to be a hoax, or clearly was not working on it's own. Mylow is the first to post an obviously free-spinning magnet motor. so the last couple weeks have been crazy exciting...

Some of his video have been reposted Here http://www.youtube.com/user/PESNetwork

and Mylow is now posted here: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=magneticmotor1&view=videos

[Brandon Fraley]

yeah, I continue to watch the videos he puts up, but of course there's no new info. Not that you'd expect there to be, since he's explained how it works, so there wouldn't be any new info until we find out it was a hoax.

But I can't find any videos of anyone else's motor working. Please post a link for me if you know of one. I understand that it's "impossible", but I would have assumed people would be posting lots of videos with their own fake motors. I can't find any though.

[Danish P.V.]

Maybe I`m beating a dead horse, but how can anyone prove something via youtube? As long as it`s not independently (non-youtube) tested it`s a hoax. Period.

[Wayne Morellini]

Maybe I`m beating a dead horse, but how can anyone prove something via youtube? As long as it`s not independently (non-youtube) tested it`s a hoax. Period.

Independent testing is merely verification that it works or not, it does not cause it to start being true or not (as I keep pointing out to pointless skeptics in the past, in reference to other people, nothing personal, I do not know you, as much of this will be. I just get sick of second rate 'spock' level logic). Something that exists, exists, wherever we know about it or not, wherever we prove it or not. We don't make it exist apart from actually making it exist (for the skeptics, in our imaginations or not).

People keep acting like if something is not verified it can't be true (usually skeptics with a axe to grind, with personal pride and prejudice) I thought that was more like cynicism. As long as we have the nuts on both sides ruling the debate, how can we forge ahead.

--
A cynical person will not even objectively attempt to prove something right or wrong.

Anyway, I am not saying this invention is at all right. There is one possible 'trick', but after several attempts to download the video to see his explanation, I gave up (better things to do, which is why so few people are here). I saw a different type of contraption proposal recently that might be trying to exploit this trick, but forget where it was. It is a trick that I have been wanting to explore for years (well decades in reference to what we are talking about here) and it just occurred to me that it may well occur by drawing energy from surrounding space as people have been talking about here (which means that it has engineering problems at certain scales as it will starts absorbing it's own energy). Anyway, it still means conservation of energy, just that the walls of the system are not as closed as it might appear to the blind.

[MikeHedge]

bam!!!! Mylow is unstoppable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_KQ8tldXnY

[Gavin Greenwalt]

http://xkcd.com/373/

It isn't cynicism. It's practicality. If every nutjob on youtube warranted our attention we would spend our entire lives disproving them. Instead we assume they're nutjobs until they prove otherwise. If they aren't nut jobs they'll be on the cover of newsweek by the end of the year. If you invested $0.50 to every supposed perpetual motion machine that claims to be a new energy source then you would be broke before you made even $1 back. That's just not good business sense. It's not good use of your time. Especially considering if it's true then it'll be easy to prove.

"Oh I also have a fusion reactor in my garage. But I won't let anyone into my garage to verify this claim. If you doubt me you're just a cynic. And all you haters have made me decide you won't ever see." Yeah. That's a great way to convince people!

[MikeHedge]

gotcha, are you saying that you don't watch videos? or believe that somehow even though he has shown people the entire invention, and now, even built a new one from scratch on camera, that somehow you still don't believe it?

Also Steorn is making progress. the next few months will be exciting.

[Ethan Cooper]

Those guys need some video help. Every time I see his videos I can't get past how odd he seems to be, and the old ladish-ness of his house. I know I should be excited by the possible technology here but I just can't get past some of these trivial things. I keep wanting to think it's a hoax.

It's so freaking simple you think someone would have done it by now. Maybe I'm wrong.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I currently rank Steorn on the same level as last year's "quantum computer". Steorn has all sorts of BS on their site about licensing, blah, blah, blah, yet nothing tangible yet. Of course, the proof is in the pudding. They're nobody until they can repeatedly demonstrate a functional unit. Just like RED, they're a scam until they have something to show. I hope you're right that it will get very exciting, but it seems that every year we see claims like this for something new. Rarely does it ever materialize. I know people who are still eating their hats over that whole Quantum computer thing.

As for Mylow. There are tons of devices just like that and so many patents on many variations of that same concept it's laughable. So many of them are even available with free license. As for the magnetic wheel motor... Been there, seen it, done it. Call me when it's more than a lazy-suzan with some bench magnets glued to it. He hasn't even progressed it to the level of various kits that were available in the 70s-80s that also used switching electromagnets or moveable drive magnets to time the repulsive and attractive forces with the magnet clusters on the disc. Shin-Etsu Chemical, Ltd. has re-patented their version of this concept many times over the years, the past few times in '06 and just October of last year. If Mylow actually starts trying to market this and claiming it's "his invention", he's in for a world of hurt.

OK, maybe I'm a cynical ass, but there's nothing in his videos that suggests any sort of "free energy" or perpetual motion. Nor is it a unique design or "invention". If this Mylow is really discovering this design on his own, kudos to him, but If he's really trying to accomplish something worthwhile, he should present himself a bit more seriously, do some real research and get off of YouTube. Then again, maybe he's right where he belongs.


It's so freaking simple you think someone would have done it by now. Maybe I'm wrong.

It's been done, you want me to start referencing patent numbers? Never mind that both Pike and Edison pioneered these wheeled designs for permanent magnet motors.

[Gavin Greenwalt]

gotcha, are you saying that you don't watch videos? Even built a new one from scratch on camera, that somehow you still don't believe it?

I can come up with a clever system that would fake it and would be completely concealed.

That being said. I can plausibly believe that it actually works. The question is even scaled up will it generate more than negligible energy. And I suspect that even more powerful magnets would produce almost no additional energy.

Either way. If he (unlike the millions of other hoaxes out there) is real then I'll be seeing it pop up left and right before too long.

[Joseph Ward]

It's been done, you want me to start referencing patent numbers? Never mind that both Pike and Edison pioneered these wheeled designs for permanent magnet motors.

So Free Energy is real?

[MikeHedge]

Gavin. gotcha. ya. it will be a test to see if this could be attached to a generator and charge a battery or something.

Joesph. yes. of course. Free energy has been real for thousands of years...

peace.

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Well it's not necessarily free. Which is why I said it very well may be real. But they're ignoring some variable. Something might be consumed in the process. Also it took energy to magnetize the ore.

It's like the Water -> Hydrogen catalysts. You're effectively burning Aluminum to create hydrogen. If you just look at the Fuel Cell it appears to create more energy than is put into it but only if you ignore the fact that Aluminum is being consumed in the processs.

So even if it is actually working I would suspect in all likelihood something unknown in the system is being expended. Since these demonstrations are so tiny and small that unknown variable will take a very very long time to be transferred into kinetic energy. If it could light up a light bulb then the rate of consumption would very quickly reveal itself to be a true source of energy or just a new novel battery.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

So Free Energy is real?

Depends how you look at it. I was just saying that the spinning wheel with magnets as constructed by this Mylow guy is far from a new idea. I haven't seen anything in his videos that provides evidence of "free energy" or perpetual motion. Just a couple guys sitting in front of some ridiculously poor excuse for a rotating platform with magnets glued to it saying "it looks like it's accelerating...".

There are literally thousands of patents on this very concept and documentation of such devices dating back from now to over 150 years ago. Mylow hasn't invented anything.

[sander kamp]

There are literally thousands of patents on this very concept and documentation of such devices dating back from now to over 150 years ago. Mylow hasn't invented anything.

If that's the case why haven't I seen it before? And why are so many people desperately trying to build a magnet motor if it was such an obvious and easy thing to do?

Mylow has never said he invented this. He is replicating the work of Howard Johnson and his dearest wish is that everybody starts doing the same. He is not in it for the money, he makes the motors in his own house with off the shelve parts and posts unedited videos on the internet where he shows his face and where cats walk around and birds make noises in the back. I think you have to give the guy some credit for being very genuine and for taking the big risk of being burned down.

[MikeHedge]

Jeff, not sure if you know, but Mylow was visited by the Black Ops.

anyways. life is gonna be exciting. I'd love to see other people building these.

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Mylow was supposedly visited.

By people who would have nothing to gain or lose by his existance or work. The black ops is a dead give away that he's a crackpot.

I bet he was visited by the illuminati as well. I'm sure they're also threatened by a little spinning wheel.

[Wayne Morellini]

Even though I love to spend time on these sorts of arguments, I am a little busy to spend too much time, but I will answer a few things. hmm.. I just remembered an engineering principle that might could help achieve these affects.


http://xkcd.com/373/

Statistically, I could make an experiment to virtually refute anything (maybe even it's own existence) so experiments are only as good and objective as they, and their creators, are. Unnaturally we are here, because the existence of this system implies existence outside of the system, as the system is not self creating from no seed (a contradiction in physics).


It isn't cynicism. It's practicality. If every nutjob on youtube warranted our attention we would spend our entire lives disproving them. Instead we assume they're

If we just ignore all the cynical skeptic fans trying to pull a con job because they believe it can't be true, and those just plain mistaken, then we would have a lot lot less to look at, would that not be so. No objective person does these sorts of things because he is skeptical.

If we spend our time denying things could be true, we are liable to spend our time denying things that are true as well.

I came up with an apt way of saying it yesterday, or today, but unfortunately I have forgotten the wording, but it goes something like this: As long as we are caught between the 'couldn't be's ' and the 'must be's ' (or 'could be' or 'can be') extremes, objectivity will suffer. One side has faith in physics and views anything that challenges that with suspicion, the other side believes in their cause and views the first side with suspicion. The side that believes in physics acts like it is a religion and they are the priests of it. One side is very closed to the possibility, and the other very closed to the impossibility. I am not saying that we do not need some people that are a bit could not be, and some a bit must be, to challenge us and peer deeper, as we reach the conclusion as to wherever it: is, is not, maybe, or likely to be, one or the other.


If they aren't nut jobs they'll be on the cover of newsweek by the end of the year. [/
quote]

Are we sure of that? How many valid things have failed dismally because of cynicism and skepticism, and just a little industrial espionage, in times past.

[quote]It's not good use of your time. Especially considering if it's true then it'll be easy to prove.

How long have they been trying to unify the laws of physics, with countless billions and not worked. Even if it does trick energy out of space, it could take a lot fo effort to detect, perfect, or even repeat such a trick (please note, vacuum energy sails, and other was to exploit vacuum energy, are of interest to even NASA from memory).


"Oh I also have a fusion reactor in my garage. But I won't let anyone into my garage to verify this claim.

Is this about the fusion break through announcement on the news a few weeks ago? I didn't get to see if it was a normal fusion device or one of these backyard fusion things again.

[Wayne Morellini]

I currently rank Steorn on the same level as last year's "quantum computer". Steorn has all sorts of BS on their site about licensing, blah, blah, blah, yet nothing tangible yet. Of course, the proof is in the pudding. They're nobody until they can repeatedly demonstrate a functional unit.

We know that for patent reasons you can't disclose either, and for licensing reasons other things can be kept secret indefinitely. Not that it offers any validity, but also offers an excuse to hide. I thought that the patent office refuses patents on free energy and anti-gravitational devices these days (which also removes commercial incentive).


As for the magnetic wheel motor... Been there, seen it, done it. Call me when it's more than a lazy-suzan with some bench magnets glued to it. He hasn't even progressed it to the level of various kits that were available in the 70s-80s that also used switching electromagnets or movable drive magnets to time the repulsive and attractive forces with the magnet clusters on the disk.

That sounds a little close to the idea I had when I was thirteen.


Shin-Etsu Chemical, Ltd. has re-patented their version of this concept many times over the years, the past few times in '06 and just October of last year.

Jeff, is this the bunch that was doing the research I heard about years ago, about deriving energy from transformations to atom nucleus's, or so forth?




I can come up with a clever system that would fake it and would be completely concealed.

Just stick a electromagnet nearby or under the table, or have a mechanism in the machine powered by inductance from a electro-magnet under the table (avoids the wobbles but more likely to be found under close scrutiny of the device itself).




Jeff, not sure if you know, but Mylow was visited by the Black Ops.

I and a few of my friends could dress up as blackops, and the only way he would know that we were not would be because of my fat stomach ;) .

The problem is, this sort of thing can attract (apart from lying and excluding industrial espionage) skeptical cynics to pretend to be black op's just to stir things up for a joke.

Now the question needs to be asked, why hasn't many of the other people that do this, as Jeff points out, been visited? You would expect many more stories. If it was true, the best option would be to lay low till you have proven or disproven something (so that it can be recreated by others in this case), then announce it across the board.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

If that's the case why haven't I seen it before? And why are so many people desperately trying to build a magnet motor if it was such an obvious and easy thing to do?

Not sure why you haven't seen them before... Seriously. There have been kits / plans, whatever available in the back of magazines like Popular Science, etc.. for decades. Why are such "motors" not mainstream? Because people build them and most don't work as advertised. The few that do seem to work, do so with other intervention to the system or other trade-offs or internal consumptions within the motor system. I never said it was easy, I never said it would even work. I'm just saying that the concept is a dead horse, beaten to a bloody pulp.

Here's two patent numbers I pulled just by searching for names of those who I know have legitimate patents on similar permanent magnet motors. But if you do any extensive searching, you will find so many, that it will make your head spin.

6,433,452
7,531,933

The design is not new to me, I've seen tons of magnet "motors" over the years that look just like what Mylow has built. Some built on Johnson's concepts, others from other sources. Not sure why it's such a revelation now. Some of them seem to work, some of them don't work. It's a concept that's been pounded on for well over a century and no one has yet conjured up any miraculous free energy machine.


Mylow has never said he invented this.

Fair enough. But others are incorrectly claiming that he has invented it.


He is replicating the work of Howard Johnson and his dearest wish is that everybody starts doing the same. He is not in it for the money, he makes the motors in his own house with off the shelve parts and posts unedited videos on the internet where he shows his face and where cats walk around and birds make noises in the back. I think you have to give the guy some credit for being very genuine and for taking the big risk of being burned down.

If that is indeed the case, then kudos to him. This is just my not so humble opinion, but I don't think Mylow's "motor" is legit. Even with all the video "proof". I've built similar magnet motors myself, only way they ever worked, without forcibly starting the rotation, is to run a powered electromagnet as the stationary drive magnet. Permanent drive magnets wroked too, just as Mylow's motor is doing, but needed a nudge to get going and they could sometimes spin for a while, even give the illusion of accelerating due to the irregular motion. But in the end, they were nothing more than a magnetically-assisted lazy-susan or turn table that would run for a bit, then fizzle out. Anyway, I'm not going to beat this into the ground any more. If Mylow has discovered some secret placement or magnet arrangement that he is not yet disclosing, then great. Otherwise, he'll eventually be put on the spot (or his motor will be) and it will either work or it will be BS.



We know that for patent reasons you can't disclose either, and for licensing reasons other things can be kept secret indefinitely. Not that it offers any validity, but also offers an excuse to hide. I thought that the patent office refuses patents on free energy and anti-gravitational devices these days (which also removes commercial incentive).

Who can say about patents / Steorn... If they release a real product then great, otherwise they'll fade away. Hopefully they're not already taking money for licensing fees, etc.. Kinda seems as they are from their site, but it's a bit vague.

The USPTO currently turns away any device that claims to provide "free energy" or operate "over unity". Also anything that is "anti gravity", a "transporter" or "teleporter" and a bunch of other devices that people have been dreaming about for decades and beyond. Not so much because they believe that such devices can't exist, but because they're broad topics, popularized in popular culture and the flood of bogus submissions clogs up the patent office. People will seek to patent such concepts, even if completely bogus, just so they can claim they have a patent as a way to add legitimacy to their scam. Anyone who is seriously building such a device will patent individual components anyway and then group all subsequent patents under one final application.


Jeff, is this the bunch that was doing the research I heard about years ago, about deriving energy from transformations to atom nucleus's, or so forth?

I don't know about that. But this group currently holds the majority of patents on the best current magnet material designs and magnetizing processes and they're legit -- produce a large number of the superconductive magnets on the market.


Just stick a electromagnet nearby or under the table, or have a mechanism in the machine powered by inductance from a electro-magnet under the table (avoids the wobbles but more likely to be found under close scrutiny of the device itself).

Exactly. The videos prove nothing. If he's serious and wants to be taken seriously, all he has to do is post a specific list of parts he's using and provide direct instructions or diagrams to build it.


The problem is, this sort of thing can attract (apart from lying and excluding industrial espionage) skeptical cynics to pretend to be black op's just to stir things up for a joke.

Hehe.


Now the question needs to be asked, why hasn't many of the other people that do this, as Jeff points out, been visited? You would expect many more stories. If it was true, the best option would be to lay low till you have proven or disproven something (so that it can be recreated by others in this case), then announce it across the board.

Exactly. And why is it that only rural townsfolk from the southern USA seem to be the ones predominantly abducted by aliens?

[David Rasberry]

Until 2005, a methematically coherent understanding of the physics that make motors like this possible was not available. The underlying physics are just now being developed to practical predictable engineering level equations that can be computer modelled.

Mylow is just playing around with designs based on an expired patent that was demonstrated by Johnson to work, but without a coherent and mathematically accurate physics, it is very much a tricky hit or miss proposition to make one work. They do conform to the laws of physics, including conservation of energy.

The key change in physics have come from recent developments in relativity theory that view the spacetime continuum as a source of primordial charge density that drives all energetic phenomena. Under this model a permanent magnet array is not the source of the driving force, but acts as a lens to focus and move primordial charge to do work through resonant coupling. Every electric generator or motor works this way, it is just that we have always done it with brute force from heat engines rather than accessing it directly through resonant coupling. Traditional thermodynamics apply to heat engines, not to this kind of technology.

You are going to see many more such devices emerging in the next few years. Nano generators using this kind of technology will probably replace batteries for many applications, like cell phones and laptops that stay charged for life. These are already in engineering development.

[Brandon Fraley]

Now the question needs to be asked, why hasn't many of the other people that do this, as Jeff points out, been visited? You would expect many more stories. If it was true, the best option would be to lay low till you have proven or disproven something (so that it can be recreated by others in this case), then announce it across the board.

I suppose I'll ask it again: Where are the copycats? I can't find a single other video of a working motor. Like everyone else has pointed out, it should be easy enough to fake. Why is no one else in the WORLD faking it? I have to admit, subconsciously, the fact that there are no other fakers out there makes mylow seem more legit to me.

If I had even an ounce of machining talent, I'd build a fake motor in a second and put up a video on youtube proclaiming to be the "second" person to successfully build a working Howard Johnson motor! :D I'm stunned no one has done this.

[David Rasberry]

I have played with some simple models developed using current mag field modelling software ( now obsolete). I was just trying to get a steel ball to roll around a track in a complete circle, not necessarily round, to demonstrate the principles. It was possible to get it 2/3rds of the way with relative ease, but when the arrays were extended to close the circle, field interference between opposite sides would cancel out the motive force.
Been too busy to try with some antisymetric field arrays, but I have had some fun and learned a lot in the process.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I'm stunned no one has done this.

You're joking, right? I could spend all day watching magnet motor videos on YouTube.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=&search_query=magnet+motor&aq=f
:couch:

[Gavin Greenwalt]

http://www.nuscam.com/perendev.htm


The results were always the same: they all run down. Under load, they
run down very quickly. It doesn't take very long for magnets to lose
their magnetism when they are constantly being put in opposition to one
another.

As I said before. It's easy to make a device which doesn't appear to consume any sort of fuel when it produces almost no energy.

His little lazy susan would go for decades perhaps without needing the magnet to be replaced. But it still consumes energy.

[Steven Caesare]

Until 2005, a methematically coherent understanding of the physics that make motors like this possible was not available. The underlying physics are just now being developed to practical predictable engineering level equations that can be computer modelled.

Mylow is just playing around with designs based on an expired patent that was demonstrated by Johnson to work, but without a coherent and mathematically accurate physics, it is very much a tricky hit or miss proposition to make one work. They do conform to the laws of physics, including conservation of energy.

The key change in physics have come from recent developments in relativity theory that view the spacetime continuum as a source of primordial charge density that drives all energetic phenomena. Under this model a permanent magnet array is not the source of the driving force, but acts as a lens to focus and move primordial charge to do work through resonant coupling. Every electric generator or motor works this way, it is just that we have always done it with brute force from heat engines rather than accessing it directly through resonant coupling. Traditional thermodynamics apply to heat engines, not to this kind of technology.

You are going to see many more such devices emerging in the next few years. Nano generators using this kind of technology will probably replace batteries for many applications, like cell phones and laptops that stay charged for life. These are already in engineering development.

If only we could power a motor with buzzwords...

-sc

[Wayne Morellini]

If only we could power a motor with buzzwords...

-sc

Wouldn't that be like "Hot Air"? ;)

I am not going to knock what was said though, because it sort of goes with what I was saying, and I can see sense in it and was my point about technique to transfer energy from outside the system. If something comes from nothing, then what is to stop more coming from nothing. Not that I am implying that there was nothing, nothing is paradoxical to existence. I usually argue that the natural state of things is something (existence) rather than nothing (so there always must have been something) except the concept does not agree (paradoxical) with our system of physical laws that require that nothing can come from nothing, and that there must be something for us to be here. But yet we are here, but because we are here 'nothing' could not have existed, so I came up with the philosophical argument to answer this years ago. But taking the philosophical argument further (been up all night so I will short cut to the conclusions) there must be unlimited energy (see previouse post), and further to, there is no reason for the laws of physics or any structure, or limits to the amount of the universe, particularly given unlimited energy (think singularity) therefor existence must be intelligent (and you know the rest, as a cold chill sets through the minds of Skeptics everywhere ;) ).

Having another look, the natural laws have no basis unless formed by something above the natural, outside from it.

Anyway, it continues on to discuss a new hypothesis of how the universe can be made this way and has a ironic turn to it.

[Wayne Morellini]

Exactly. And why is it that only rural townsfolk from the southern USA seem to be the ones predominantly abducted by aliens?

Isn't that where you come from Jeff ;)

I'll tell you a good one Jeff. I have a friend that argued that a perfect orbit was continuous and therefore a perpetual motion machine, and also a ray of light going across the universe (which would require a universe without end), but I suppose, applied to the big bang theory a continuously repeating Big Bang could also be viewed in such a way. Admittedly, he also told me that the reason the Earth was heating up (global warming) was because people were pumping the oil out of the ground that lubricates the Earth in it's orbit around the sun. He also used to think the "news of the world" was true, which was another real eye opener.

[David Rasberry]

If only we could power a motor with buzzwords...

-sc

www.atomicprecision.com

Pretty big dustup in the theoretical physics world been going on for about 5 years now. Dr. Evans has won the mathematical and experimental proofs arguments though. As with Einstein, it will probably be another ten to twenty years before the last of the academic holdouts for the standard model bite the dust. Who was it that said new ideas in academia aren't accepted through persuasion but because the people who hold the old ideas finally die off?
But when you have senior research physicists for companies like Siemens, or government agencies like DARPA and the US navy actively participating in developing engineering applications of a major new theoretical paradigm, its past the academic stage.
I have followed this story for about 3 years now, and the dirty politics and soap opera emotions surrounding this are as interesting as the science. Its quite amusing to see Nobel laureates and other major award winning scientists at the tops of their profession calling each other crackpots and pseudo scientists while quibbling over the derivations and values of known universal constants out to the 17th decimal place.

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Probably going to have to wait more than 20 years for his theories to be accepted... considering they don't actually accurately model the universe.

There's a reason he's being ignored... and it's not because his idea is so well followed.

By the way... the scientific community is also stubornly ignoring the Gavin-Greenwalt-Theory-That-Proves-Everything-Theory. Just need to wait for all those stuborn scientists and scientific journal editors to die out so that it finally gets the recognition it deserves!

Unless by dustup you mean there's a guy rolling around in the dust fighting windmills while the rest of the scientific community continues actually pursueing theories which haven't been disproven.

[Wayne Morellini]

I was going to stop posting because of things here to do, but ironically I just turned on the computer and TV and the show "Lie to Me" was on, where a lying serial rapist gives away a detail that leads them to possible copycat called "Mylow".



Probably going to have to wait more than 20 years for his theories to be accepted... considering they don't actually accurately model the universe.

There's a reason he's being ignored... and it's not because his idea is so well followed.

By the way... the scientific community is also stubbornly ignoring the Gavin-Greenwalt-Theory-That-Proves-Everything-Theory. Just need to wait for all those stubborn scientists and scientific journal editors to die out so that it finally gets the recognition it deserves!

Unless by dustup you mean there's a guy rolling around in the dust fighting windmills while the rest of the scientific community continues actually pursueing theories which haven't been disproven.

It is also said some (invalid) theories only die out when their originators do. Unfortunately maths gives a level of complexity that gives wriggle room to obscure and hide from the truth. People with mistaken theories can keep them going while the rest of scientific community pass on, but unfortunately this can also mean that valid theories can also be ignored by the community until their originators die.

This turmoil is too common in the scientific world, far from logical, they are still merely not so objective humans with their own preferences. I personally wrote to one publication in times past about the desegregation of their reporting on an issue, I imagine a lot of people did, and it worked.



Exactly. And why is it that only rural townsfolk from the southern USA seem to be the ones predominantly abducted by aliens?

Or, maybe it is because New York black ops dropped in and convinced the aliens to go there instead. ;) . (ok, just had to say that one).

Are there aliens, that is an interesting one, what type of aliens, what is an alien. If my parents went to the US and I was born and bread there, and I snuck over here, I would maybe be an illegal alien. Then there apparently are aliens dropping in on us all the time according to the scientific community, microbes. But think about it, why would aliens be like us, unless they had common ancestry or make. But structural designs produce limitations, like the size of birds for a design, preference for legs and arms for very mobile dexterous land animals. But back to the argument, apart from common ancestry and make, i would not expect them to look human, even if they had arms and legs (but maybe that is the only sort that gets here) and maybe completely different basis.

The scientific community uses the convenient answer (skeptics love convenient answers) that nothing can travel faster than the speed of light, therefore they could not possibly come here. The odds of life working at all are also a past subject. But if a theoretical alien can live for ten thousand or ten million years, or exists in space, it could still get here stay see us die and go back home. But the speed of light being a limit thing is a bit subjective, does it preclude engineering other methods. But these are factors of our system, externally to our system does this apply?

Re-edit, only a theoretical argument, I am not saying I believe that aliens are traveling in space ships to here.

[Steven Caesare]

www.atomicprecision.com (http://www.atomicprecision.com)

Pretty big dustup in the theoretical physics world been going on for about 5 years now. Dr. Evans has won the mathematical and experimental proofs arguments though. As with Einstein, it will probably be another ten to twenty years before the last of the academic holdouts for the standard model bite the dust. Who was it that said new ideas in academia aren't accepted through persuasion but because the people who hold the old ideas finally die off?
But when you have senior research physicists for companies like Siemens, or government agencies like DARPA and the US navy actively participating in developing engineering applications of a major new theoretical paradigm, its past the academic stage.
I have followed this story for about 3 years now, and the dirty politics and soap opera emotions surrounding this are as interesting as the science. Its quite amusing to see Nobel laureates and other major award winning scientists at the tops of their profession calling each other crackpots and pseudo scientists while quibbling over the derivations and values of known universal constants out to the 17th decimal place.

Perhaps so... but when I read "...spacetime continuum as a source of primordial charge density that drives all energetic phenomena..." , a phrase which has trouble keeping a straight face, I start getting nervous that my dilthium crystals are going to break if I don't keep them in a sturdier box.

-Steve

[Graeme Nattress]

What I need to see is an experiment, predicted by Evans' theory, that wouldn't make sense under classical physics. Can you direct me to such an experiment?

Graeme

[sander kamp]

FISHLINE????

http://pesn.com/2009/05/19/9501542_Fish-line_discovered_in_Mylow-magnet-motor/

Aaauuwww... I so much wanted this to be true....

[Gavin Greenwalt]

If it actually works it consumes the magnets.
If it doesn't work it's just a hoax.

I hope everyone has learned their lesson.

Fishing line... that's even less concealed than my idea to hide a little motor up behind the bearings. If you're going to be an international sensation... at least have the class to invest some real money into it.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Fishline. Haha... Busted.

Actually, I was seriously expecting just an electromagnet under their little box/platform or a hidden motor, like Gavin was saying.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

he also told me that the reason the Earth was heating up (global warming) was because people were pumping the oil out of the ground that lubricates the Earth in it's orbit around the sun.

LOL! Haven't heard that one before, that's sort of awesome in a totally stupid way.

[David Rasberry]

What I need to see is an experiment, predicted by Evans' theory, that wouldn't make sense under classical physics. Can you direct me to such an experiment?

Graeme

http://www.aias.us/index.php?goto=showPageByTitle&pageTitle=Experimental_advantages_of_ECE_over_the_ Standard_Model

The Faraday Disc Generator has also been successfully explained for the first
time using ECE theory. A Faraday disk generator can be used to demonstrate
spin connection resonance (see paper 107 of the ECE series, www.aias.us).
This paper was again experimentally led, in fact in response to a report of an
exploding Faraday disk generator - that is, a generator that was presumably over powering itself.

Spacetime is in fact a large reservoir of energy. The reservoir that creates
gravitation, which keeps us on the ground, is the Cartan curvature of
spacetime. Space Energy, or Energy from Spacetime, is energy derived from
the geometry of spacetime. In the ECE theory, the zero point energy comes
from the zero'th eigenvalue of the ECE Lemma with harmonic oscillator eigen
functions. Space energy is not free energy. ECE theory predicts that voltages can reach infinity through SCR. This is no different from the electromagnetic spectrum having no limit. SCR does not violate Noether's Theorem and it does not create energy from nothing.
The spin connection is essential to Cartan geometry and general relativity,
because it is the entity that introduces torsion and curvature into spacetime. In ECE theory it comes in to the definition of the electromagnetic potential and electromagnetic field. The way in which it enters the theory allows resonances,which are peaks or surges of electric power from spacetime. This happens while rigorously obeying the basic law of conservation of energy.
It is simply a high voltage caused by a particular type of oscillation (resonance) of a collection of charges by three or more external frequencies. Unfortunately, the frequencies necessary to achieve resonances in most materials are either far too high (X-Rays) or unknown. For example, SCR in principle would allow one to ionize diatomic oxygen (and make it glow green) but this would require the incident electromagnetic waves to be gamma- or x-rays. So, for many materials and applications, SCR is impractical. However, there is anecdotal evidence that Germanium semiconductors and mild steel can exhibit SCR-induced voltage surges for many frequency and amplitude combinations in the radio frequency range. This is spin connection resonance on a macroscopic level, compared to molecular processes.
There have been many claims of over unity devices but currently the only
experiment / device that has been widely replicated and that demonstrates SCR conclusively is Bedini's SG motor - although the voltage gains are not that great (see, for example papers 63, 87 94 in the ECE theory series on the AIAS website- www.aias.us).
In principle the rotor in this specific Bedini device could be substituted with a solid state circuit. Some AIAS members have replicated Bedini’s SG motor thereby meeting the basic experimental requirements of reproducibility and repeatability.It seems to provide evidence of SCR-induced voltage surges (as discussed inpaper 94 of the ECE series on the AIAS website, www.aias.us)

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Seems to me like the theory hides behind the obscurity of professionals fully equipped to debunk his theory while simultaneously attempting to ignore the number of individuals who have found his proofs to be incorrect. Neither you nor I can really verify any claim. We're at the mercy of others' opinions. Considering he hasn't managed to convince anyone else of any consequence to pursue his theories is strike 1. If the people who can make an informed decision are uninterested then why should I? It's like the RED camera. Even if you knew nothing about cameras you would be able to tell they were on to something based on the professionals of various fields who were excited.

It's the perfect receipe for unobstructed obscurity. He can claim to have invented anything so long as the average reader is unable to verify or dispute his claims.

Just throw up enough obfuscation such that 'disproval' is difficult and then proclaim victory when nobody bothers to disprove your work (which in this case has been done in at least two instances.)

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

[Graeme Nattress]

Yeah, but the Faraday disk is not a new phenonema previously unknown that was predicted by the theory, it's an old experiment with an alternative explanation - ECE v Lortenz law.

Was the exploding generator fish line powered also? :-)

Graeme

[David Rasberry]

No one has found his proofs to be incorrect. There is one individual(Bruhn) who has posted criticisms of "errors" but he mixes metaphors so to speak. He changes definitions by inserting non-Cartan terms into the equations corrupting the results. I understand the math well enough to read the equations and see what is being corrupted.

Evans equations are textbook standard Cartan differential geometry and can be proved in any high level symbolic math computer program such as Maxima (free) Maple, or Mathematica. Indeed he posts the Maxima code on his site so people can try it for themselves.

I spent a year and a half working through Roger Penrose's book "The Road to Reality, a complete guide to the laws of the universe." He was Stephen Hawkings mathematician and covers the history of all major physical theories up to the end of the 20th century, including the development of the mathematics.
Compared to some of the mathematical contortions some of those theories throw up, Evans is the soul of elegant simplicity. This is not to say that there is anything really simple about the mathematics of modern theoretical physics. However Evans and his fellows have reduced the equations to standard engineering vector analysis formats that can be calculated by computer and verified against experimental data.

As to interest, Evans website gets more than 250,000 hits a month and more than 10,000 downloads of posted papers by him and others. He is currently being more widely studied by government researchers, industry, and major universities, more than all other university research sites and physics institutes combined. In view of that there is precious little criticism.

[David Rasberry]

Ha! Looks like Mylow's motor was a hoax after all.

http://pesn.com/2009/05/19/9501542_Fish-line_discovered_in_Mylow-magnet-motor/

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Ha! Looks like Mylow's motor was a hoax after all.

http://pesn.com/2009/05/19/9501542_Fish-line_discovered_in_Mylow-magnet-motor/

Already mentioned a few posts back - post #105. :beer: