So my client wants sound

[Von Thomas]

I've never worked with sound on my RED, so where do I start, and what do I need. We are shooting in a studio, on sticks, subject are models walking towards camera and talking.

[Martin Weiss]

I'd get a good sound recordist with his/her own gear, otherwise you are in for a steep learning curve with a very real possibility of disappointing your client.

[Von Thomas]

Everything lately is a learning curve, but I'm up for the challenge. So what you I need? What kind of mic, cables, etc to make this work on camera, ENG style.

[Rob Gardner]

Use double system and get a soundman
Rob Gardner

[Von Thomas]

I've seen pictures where the RED has onboard mic, so I ask again, what parts do I need, to make this happen. I have time to practice this and get it right, I just need the hardware. So please telling me to get a sound man, I got that! Tell me, if you know, what hardware I need.

Thanks

Von

[Alan Skinner]

OK, here comes some info from a complete audio noob so take it with a grain of salt but here goes:

I have done a lot of research here on this forum and abroad to decide what audio package to put together for myself. I am also up for the learning curve but wanted to see what others who have more experience think about audio.

First, you need some equipment:
Mic
Blimp/Dead Wombat
Boompole
Mixer
Recorder
Case to carry it
Guy who knows what to do with the stuff! :)

I find that to go totally pro you could hit 10K without even trying. More if you get the best so I had to decide where to start for me. I like good equipment so my choices are based on doing with less channels/features but using good solid pro brand equipment.

So, while I skimped a bit on the mic and I am sure to hear about it from the pros on this board (I intend to get a really nice mic later after my learning curve is flattened), here is what I came with for about a 3.5K to 4K investment:

Mic: Audio Technica 897
Blimp/Dead Wombat: Rode Blimp (comes with Dead Wombat and should fit the AV mic fine)
Boompole: Rode 33" to 10' Boompole
Mixer: Sound Devices Mixpre or 302 (Wish I could afford the 442 but........)
Recorder: Sound Devices 722T Flash Recorder
Case: Camrade CS-3 Production Case
Guy who knows what to do with the stuff! :): Well, hopefully that will be me someday!

To you Audio types out there: I have only started purchasing and still have time to make changes/alterations in this kit so please chime in. I have the mic and blimp/cat and boompole so far.

Hope this helps.

Alan

[Ed Watkins]

For a very basic run and gun / one man ENG setup you really just need a good shotgun mike (like a Sennheiser MKH60), with a good furry. An XLR to mini XLR cable. RED top mounts and rods. A suspension shotgun mike holder, and a bogen nano clamp.

[Alan Skinner]

Yes, agreed. For mounted mic, the Bogen Nano clamp is great. I am using them for the monitor arm. Real easy to move around. I am going with the double system as I do not want to trust to just the audio to in-camera only but you can get by with that much if you want to just record to cam.

[FredrikL]

Stupid question:

I suppose using an external mixer one doesn't have to use a clapper and sync everything up the old - school way, but that there is some other more hightech way of doing this...how do you sync with the image?
F.

[Florian Stadler]

Battery Powered Mike like a Sennheiser 216, Windshield, Mini to Standard XLR cable, Nanoclamp & Mic-holder for mounting, 3' XLR cable.

Set the input level to Mic, not Line

Do NOT use Phantom power unless you have a upgraded audio board.

[Noah Kadner]

If you are using the camera as a recording device- you don't need to worry about sync. If you are recording double system you need a clapper. You can easily line up in post. Or if you have a smart timecode slate and you are jamming sync then the takes can be lined up in post via timecode. Either way it's not that tricky.

-Noah

[FredrikL]

Or if you have a smart timecode slate and you are jamming sync then the takes can be lined up in post via timecode.

What exactly is a smart timecode slate?

Doable with a device like this one?

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=29914

[Von Thomas]

Thanks to all for you input. I decided to go with a sound mixer to do it the proper way, and it worked out.

That said, I will test using an onboard mike and try it ENG style for future smaller gigs.

[FredrikL]

What soundmixer did you go for?
F.

[Von Thomas]

Sorry, we hired a audio person (sound mixer).

[Steve Sherrick]

http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/right_mic_brockett.html

http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/lavs_brockett.html

http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/location_sound.html

http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/review_shotgun_mics.html

http://web.mac.com/tyreeford/Site/Ty_Ford_Audio_%26_Video.html

This should get you started.

[Tom Visser]

Strong move... it was the right thing to do.

I was just envisioning you submitting your audio to your client with fan noise and splashy "i recorded audio with my walkman" type audio. First off, forget about on-camera audio... yes it can work for scratch tracks, but in 95% of the situations, you are putting your mic in the wrong location. A good boom op and technique is the majority of getting good sound. Next is the microphone and the mixer.

My recommendation for a "my first audio sound kit"...

Shotgun mic:
Sennheiser MKH 416 if you have to submit your equipment to production for review / approval during your bid process.
Rode NTG-3 if your on a budget and want good value
Sennheiser MKH 60, Schoeps, DPA, Neumann, or Sanken shotguns if you want something premium and can afford to splurge a bit.

Suspension, mounts, and blimp / fur kits for the shotgun. If you doing a lot of TV or run and gun style shooting, the Rycote Softie with fur kit is a bit more compact and easier to wield.

Long boom pole, short boom pole (optional), pistol grip

Sound Devices 302 mixer

Closed ear phones - I feel the Sennheiser HD 25 are the best

Its not professional, but prosumer, but the Sennheiser G2 kits are some of the best values out there for wireless kits.

Betacam breakaway cables AND / OR wireless hop... the Sennheiser G2 cube transmitter works well for this purpose. More professional hop solutions from the likes of Lectrosonics and Zaxcom $$$

Good ears. If you don't have them, find someone who has them or can be trained to have them... good ears are indispensable.

I can boom and mix a shotgun and 2 sets of wireless by myself. For more complex situations, I will demand bringing a boom op to assist. I feel that the boom op's talent is more important than my own when mixing, so it is imperative that I have someone that is good.

After all of this, if you still have money left over, get a good hypercardoid mic which is more appropriate for interiors as the Shotgun can sometimes be the wrong mic depending on the acoustics of the location.

[Alan Skinner]

http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/right_mic_brockett.html

http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/lavs_brockett.html

http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/location_sound.html

http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/review_shotgun_mics.html

http://web.mac.com/tyreeford/Site/Ty_Ford_Audio_%26_Video.html

This should get you started.

Thanks Steve, I will be looking this info over carefully.

Alan

[Michael Hastings]

Shotgun mic:
Sennheiser MKH 416 if you have to submit your equipment to production for review / approval during your bid process.

What is the reason for saying this? is it because it is considered an "industry standard" or preapproved for use on say BBC, or PBS productions.

thanks for all your recommendations.

[Tom Visser]

What is the reason for saying this? is it because it is considered an "industry standard" or preapproved for use on say BBC, or PBS productions.

thanks for all your recommendations.

That's it exactly. I truly believe that the Rode NTG-3 is every bit as good as the 416 on paper and performance, but I'm not here to be an evangelist and try to prove my point to my clients. Most don't care, most will hire you based on reputation and prior experience, but a not so small minority of parties, especially if you making new contact, want to see that MKH 416 on your list, otherwise you will be passed over - it happens.

[chuck colburn]

A nice mic for a good price is the AKG C100. While it does not have the reach of a hypercardiod such as the Senn. 416 it does convert from cardiod to hyercardiod. It makes for a nice on board mic and it can be either battery or phantom powered.

http://www.zzounds.com/item--AKGC1000S

And a very good dynamic mic. for voice overs etc. is the Shure SM-7. Michael Jackson used it for most of the Thriller album.

http://www.zzounds.com/prodsearch/?q=shure+sm7&button=%3CIMG+src%3D%22http%3A%2F%2Fcachepe.zzound s.com%2Flayout%2Fzzounds%2Fpageheader%2FactionButt on.gif%22%3E&form=search

[Alexander Alexandrov]

here's a good forum to start on sound:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=51526

and this is a great dvd to get started that will give a great understanding(actually i'm selling used :), but u can get new if u'd like
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=170318

[Jason Hemmerlin]

I've seen pictures where the RED has onboard mic, so I ask again, what parts do I need, to make this happen. I have time to practice this and get it right, I just need the hardware. So please telling me to get a sound man, I got that! Tell me, if you know, what hardware I need.

Thanks

Von

Just because you can put a mic on it doesn't mean that is what you should do for sound. If it's just ambience that they want then that would be fine. If you're recording dialog or an interview then get a sound person. It's worth the money. You're not gonna be thinking about the sound when you're shooting and if they want the sound of what you're shooting then it is important enough to have someone who is going to be paying attention to it. A sound person is always the better choice.