Why red one footage so blurred

[vorob]

Sorry for my English, I’m Russian.

This shoots, from RED, why are they so blurred? No clear image. The looks like upscale from 1080p. That’s real picture from RED camera? 4k resolution is just a number and that's all?

http://www.hdforindies.com/2007/11/spain-red-shoot-day-2-part-1-sitges.html
http://www.hdforindies.com/labels/Spain.html

Can you show me some good !sharp! example of 4k shoot? Cause all I see on this 2 pages, is !slightly! better of what I have from my 700buck Canon HF 100. Same blurry crap. And I would like to see some really sharp picture, like it was taken by Canon EOS 5D Mark II (its photo part), because it really strange to have some blurry shots from 20 000 buck camera.

Just made an experiment, I’ve taken this
http://www.hdforindies.com/uploaded_images/B001_C002_071013_00306_flat.tif

saved it as 4096, then made a copy and downscaled this copy to 1920x960. Saved. Then I've upscaled back to 4096x2048. Then visually compared. NO DIFFERENCE. So i can assure that detail level there is about any fullhd camera. The only place where I saw some changes were this dead pixel, it become more blurred. And this is Red One? I don't believe in such bad image :( And how this situation can be changed via firmware. May be really bad focus and bad lenses?

I understand that its 2007 year camera, with old firmware, but how can it become sharper via firmware update?

[Raul Gonzo]

go to this page, download Jarred's file:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=29473&page=3

[Cail Young]

Also, from the comments on that page:


Darren - they can definitely be sharper. We had really nice glass, a good AC, but a backfocus problem that required shimming that didn't get done while we were shooting.

The camera used for that shot was not shimmed correctly. Of course it wasn't sharp.

[vorob]

Ye, i saw this video, really good one, but thats just 720p. Interested will it be so sharp in 4k?)

[Kenn Michael]

It's blindingly sharp in 4K. I've seen it and so have many others.

You should try to see 'Knowing' when it comes to movie theaters over there - if it hasn't already.

[Joyfool]

Ye, i saw this video, really good one, but thats just 720p. Interested will it be so sharp in 4k?)

well the 4k projection at the Vegas Reduser party was tack sharp.

[Kyle Presley]

http://www.studiosumatra.com/images/A001_C008_0131GS_01074.jpg

[vorob]

Well, color is ok, but still no sharp picture.
http://enspri.com/images/5d2_portrait.jpg
She is much sharper :))

[vorob]

Maybe you'll think that I’m crazy, but I can't say that this is really bad:
http://vorobfiles.narod.ru/diff_forums/1080.png
And that's just an upscale from my camera.

[Kenn Michael]

Add some sharpening to Kyle's image in Photoshop, and you'll see all the sharpness you want. RED doesn't add sharpening to it's images like most other cameras, so you can sharpen to taste. What's important is that it IS capturing all the detail that can be enhanced with sharpening.

Can you see from upscaling your 1080 image to 4K that there is blockiness and artifacts in the image? Kyle's image is smooth like an actual scan of 35mm motion picture film - not SLR stills which are usually shot with a higher shutter speed to lessen motion blur - which you don't want as much in normal moving images.

[vorob]

Yes, I understand that red shoots pure 4k image. But I just simply thought that even raw footage will be very sharp. Without any need of enhancing it in post :) I’m not trying to say that I don’t like Red, just was surprised :)

[Kenn Michael]

Gotcha.

What I've learned though is that there is a difference between sharpness in stills camera and sharpness in motion picture. RED is the level of detail found in 35mm motion picture film scans - more or less. Different lenses impart different characteristics to the image. Kyle's image is what I would call smooth, beautiful and pleasing. I've shot stuff with Arri Master Primes on my camera that I would call painfully sharp, much sharper than Kyle's image. It differs depending on many factors - including the AC's ability to nail focus at 35mm Depth of Field.

Don't worry - RED is just as sharp as the big blockbuster films shot on film - sometimes even sharper. If you've experienced well shot RED footage projected even at 2K in a DI suite, you won't have any concerns about sharpness. I guarantee you! :)

[Steve Sherrick]

There are a number of factors that go into sharpness. The RED One has an OLPF (Optical Low Pass Filter) in line. This avoids aliasing and other artifacts that can ruin your images. Sharpness can be added in to taste in post. Now, having said that, even with the OLPF with a good set of lenses, proper backfocus adjustment, and the right amount of contrast I have seen RED images look very sharp coming right off the camera.

I can understand your perspective if you have not seen a wide sampling of RED footage. Perhaps the few samples you have seen have not matched your expectations and tainted your opinion of the camera. But search around and I think you will find some images that do meet those expectations.

Better to get a hold of RAW R3D files and play with them on your own to see what the source files look like. Too hard to tell sometimes what has been done to images when they are in their final form.

I could post some images of what I consider to be pretty sharp RED images, but I can't give you the R3Ds, so it's probably not worth it.

Feel free to ask some questions though, and people will be more than happy to get into specific details about how to get the best out of the camera. It's a generous community.

[jake blackstone]

Sorry for my English, I’m Russian.

This shoots, from RED, why are they so blurred? No clear image. The looks like upscale from 1080p. That’s real picture from RED camera? 4k resolution is just a number and that's all?

http://www.hdforindies.com/2007/11/spain-red-shoot-day-2-part-1-sitges.html
http://www.hdforindies.com/labels/Spain.html

Can you show me some good !sharp! example of 4k shoot? Cause all I see on this 2 pages, is !slightly! better of what I have from my 700buck Canon HF 100. Same blurry crap. And I would like to see some really sharp picture, like it was taken by Canon EOS 5D Mark II (its photo part), because it really strange to have some blurry shots from 20 000 buck camera.

Just made an experiment, I’ve taken this
http://www.hdforindies.com/uploaded_images/B001_C002_071013_00306_flat.tif

saved it as 4096, then made a copy and downscaled this copy to 1920x960. Saved. Then I've upscaled back to 4096x2048. Then visually compared. NO DIFFERENCE. So i can assure that detail level there is about any fullhd camera. The only place where I saw some changes were this dead pixel, it become more blurred. And this is Red One? I don't believe in such bad image :( And how this situation can be changed via firmware. May be really bad focus and bad lenses?

I understand that its 2007 year camera, with old firmware, but how can it become sharper via firmware update?
First we need to compare apples to apples. For our Russian friends (Яблоки к яблокам):)
Of coarse, the still camera will always be sharper than the film camera. It is done by design. You could always adjust your shutter angle to something like 45 degrees and watch much sharper picture, but it's not very smooth, unless you're looking for "Saving private Ryan" stutter. On the other hand, I challenge anyone to handhold still camera with 1/25 of a second shutter speed and see just how sharp it will come out. Moving images are inherently not be as sharp as still ones. That's why we call them movies...

[vorob]

Ok, i see, good lenses. Ok :) Ye, i understand that its hard to make "still picture like" shoot on video. Well, i'll be looking for more footage :)

[Paul Leeming]

Here's a sample I think is quite sharp, taken with the Red One and a Canon EF100mm/f2 lens mounted to the Birger mount. Bear in mind that you want natural sharpness, not oversharpened images that look processed, when making a movie look good.

You can click on the picture for a full 4K version (17MB PNG):

http://www.visceralpsyche.com/misc/web_images/A021_C051_0405XC_0000_25.jpg (http://www.visceralpsyche.com/misc/web_images/A021_C051_0405XC_0000.png)

HTH

Paul

[vorob]

Wow, that's good. :)

Found this page http://redrelay.net/index.htm now downloading lots of videos:)

[Victor Papalucas]

They didnt use IR-HOT MIRROR ND filters.

[Yuri Kawana]

Here's a sample I think is quite sharp, taken with the Red One and a Canon EF100mm/f2 lens mounted to the Birger mount. Bear in mind that you want natural sharpness, not oversharpened images that look processed, when making a movie look good.

You can click on the picture for a full 4K version (17MB PNG):

http://www.visceralpsyche.com/misc/web_images/A021_C051_0405XC_0000_25.jpg (http://www.visceralpsyche.com/misc/web_images/A021_C051_0405XC_0000.png)

HTH

Paul

Nice image Paul :)

Best

Y.K