View Full Version : SERIOUS problem in the sales section
05-11-2009, 12:17 PM
Guys we need the mods to keep a sharper eye on the sales section.
I understand that peopel have free speech on this thing but I keep getting copious amounts of aggravating people slagging off lenses I'm selling due to RPP's and other new lenses out comments that belittle my items due to unknowledgable people feeling they have something to add just puts people off.
I think the only commenst that should be allowed are legitimate questions not some cretin saying 'wow those aren't worth the price your charging'. I mean why bother posting in the sales section at all?
05-11-2009, 12:30 PM
this is a community man. get used to it. ya gotta take the good with the bad. if people think your lenses aren't worth what you are asking, they have the right to post that.
i think you are asking a lot considering you have a grand total of 5 posts here....
05-11-2009, 12:40 PM
Why does it matter how many posts I have is there a limit before I can make a complaint or something?
05-11-2009, 12:51 PM
Why does it matter how many posts I have is there a limit before I can make a complaint or something?
No, there's no limit, but there is a mix of people here with different levels of experience and knowledge. You kind of have to accept a little ignorance here and there and not worry about it too much.
No use getting upset, that's the industry now:)
05-11-2009, 01:03 PM
my point was that this community looks out for each other. and if that means posting OPINIONS about the price of FS items, then so be it. I'd consider it a favour if i was looking to buy something, and someone else pointed me to a place/person who was selling it for cheaper, or someone who offered an alternative opinion.
they are just that....opinions. it isn't a 'classified' section, but a message board. YOU posted it there, now live with whatever comments YOUR post generates. or delete your post.
just stop whining please.
05-11-2009, 01:14 PM
I apologies for my post on your sales section,
I could have done with out.
Wasnt trying to discredit you or your lenses,
a lot of it is just community awareness.
I see alot of people putting their older glass up for sale.. not getting any comments in their post section, and then the next post is
"BUMP" by the original poster.
Just wanting the owners to be aware of the market now, and possibly lowering the price tag to get them off the shelf.
05-11-2009, 01:24 PM
btw.. im not saying the old zeiss glass is bad.. its reallllyyyy good!
just the inflated price tag of the glass was good from 2007 to 2008
now things are leveling back to 2006.
05-11-2009, 01:48 PM
agreed. the older zeiss glass kicks ass. but it doesn't mean new lenses aren;t affecting the market. they very obviously are.
don't worry robert. those that are serious will know what they are buying, and will value the zeiss.
05-11-2009, 02:23 PM
I get the impression people are trying to wag fingers too much here if you have a comment to make on zeiss glass shouldnt that be in the section not on somone's sales post or even a PM?
I feel like some if you guys are being a little bit malicious about it to be frank.
05-11-2009, 02:48 PM
As a moderator on another camera forum with a 'Trade & Exchange' section I think you should consider yourself fortunate REDuser allows 'For Sale' postings at all — in my experience that sub-forum generates headaches for the mods and admins far out of proportion with its traffic.
Here's a partial list of the more common problems:
items offered with limited or questionable appeal to the forum's user base
items offered at or near dealer retail prices by private sellers who can't provide dealer quality after-sales support
sellers who respond defensively/combatively when others question their item's condition/value/price (five second thought experiment: would you rather buy from a salesperson who says 'Thanks anyway for looking!' or from one who belittles you for asking about a discount?)
buyers and sellers who ignore common sense precautions and expect the (unpaid volunteer) moderators to investigate/intervene on their behalf
sellers who contribute nothing except 'For Sale' listings or, worse yet, canned SPAM or the dreaded 'I just had to tell you about this product I absolutely LOVE (made by a company I secretly work for/get free shit from)' astroturf, yet refuse to sponsor the site
garage entrepreneurs who are unreasonably optimistic about pricing, scheduling and their own commitment to customer support
I can't decide which is worse: sellers who ignore the posting guidelines about closing the thread after their item has sold leaving hapless newbies to bump the zombie threads, or the ones who bump their own threads sometimes multiple times per day
05-11-2009, 04:16 PM
I've seen the thread in question.
I think part of your problem, Robert, is that you really have no participation here other than to sell these lenses. It seems most of the commenters in the thread are actually frequenters of the forum and they pick up on this. Some of the direct comments in the thread may be a little rude, but it comes with the territory.
You are correct that us mods should keep a closer watch on what goes on this section. Far too many lens dealers and spam posted by those who do not contribute to or sponsor these forums in any way. Reduser.net is a sponsor-driven forum and many sponsors don't take kindly to a lot of independent dealers who show up here to do nothing more than sell some lenses or other camera gear without contributing in other ways.
Erik makes some good points above too.
And finally, regardless of how great the old Zeiss glass truly is, it's still old glass. Anyone who has followed the prices on lenses over the past couple years knows that we had a bubble. Prices shot up in '07 and peaked in '08, they are falling back down to reality now. Looking around, there are increasingly more sets of Zeiss speeds and standards coming up for sale as a lot of people who bought when the prices were high are trying to unload them now. The showings at NAB of new products are indeed accelerating this trend of lowering prices, people don't feel so desperate to pay out for old lenses now when several new offerings are coming to the table. I know of several sets of "MKII / B" and "MKIII" speeds available right now, hate to break it to you Robert, but your asking price is high.
05-11-2009, 04:40 PM
I agree with everyone (robert too).
05-11-2009, 05:53 PM
haha. nice one joyfool. i like it!
i do too. even robert, believe it or not. i do see his side of the story. i just felt he was getting a little whiny, which i didn't like.
05-11-2009, 06:12 PM
and i am sorry for any rudeness on my part.
05-11-2009, 10:03 PM
As an objective bystander here, it seems to me that Robert has a set of lenses to sell, REDUSER is a place where people have a lot of interest in lenses, and hence he has approached the community to see if there is any interest in his set. Not much different than any other item that has been up for sale IMHO. As one that keeps an eye on lens prices I would see the post, look to see what he's offering and then leave without much comment. Because, there may be a buyer that is a good fit for this set. They may need a set of fast , quality PL lenses TODAY and willing to pay whatever price they can negotiate with the seller. If there is no interest, the post will essentially go into never never land unless the seller bumps it. Now, in my opinion a bump should include new information so people aren't mislead about the thread's activity but that's perhaps another conversation.
I respect the moderator's opinion if they feel a thread needs to be shutdown but I have to admit, it must be a bit tough to determine what is spam and what is a person who found out about REDUSER and thought people might have an interest in what he's selling. Jeff must have seen something there that smelled foul. Otherwise, perhaps it was just going in a bad direction and he didn't want it to get out of hand.
Anyway, one of the things I tell people all the time is that this is a passionate community. Opinions are going to fly, disagreements will happen, and feelings will be hurt occasionally. As a new member, perhaps this can be interpreted as malicious behavior but in a lot of cases it's really not ill intended at all.
To a certain extent I can see Robert's point on this. I would recommend to Robert and others to perhaps take a slightly different approach. Take prices offline and discuss these transactions via PM or email. That way people know what you have to sell and the details can be worked out in an environment that is more appropriate to negotiation. Like I said, you might have someone contact you who is willing to pay $39K for the set because it fits there needs at this moment. But you can do the transaction in private where it's not open to questioning or commentary from the general public.
Just my thoughts anyway.
Hans von Sonntag
05-12-2009, 02:37 AM
Reduser is a marketplace. On the contrary to a regular ad in a paper here people can tell you their oppinion instantly - often not to the sellers joy. You are not the first seller bitten here. As mentioned above this community is very heterogene, newbies along veterans. Actually this mixture is what reduser is all about.
Jeff mentioned it and I can only agree with him: Super Speeds are the biggest apple of discord on these boards. Many want them, only a few have them. They are old, very pricey, not to be compared to modern glas in terms of sharpness - and have been the biggest gainer in the lens-market-madness we shortly had and in a weakened state still have.
Your offer is for many disproportionate. Many whished that finally prices will drop to reasonable level. This did not happen in a avalanche like way, on the contray the prices did not drop much. People are disappionted and you got spanked. Sorry. My apologies.
Owing myself Super Speeds MKIIs my personal opinion: Since your offered lenses are MKIIs and not MKIIIs I find your offer too high, regardless wether the RPPs hit the market or not. IMO Super Speeds MKIIIs are still very valuably lenses which MKII are not in this extend. It's the markings, the focus throw (I know late MKII have a long focus through as well) the overall modern looking design are making them very desirable. MKIIs are older looking, less ergonomic - same brilliant glas though.
05-12-2009, 09:19 AM
Can the mods explain to me why my thread for selling these lenses has been deleted and classified as spam when no one else selling stuff has. Why am I spam is this because I made a complaint?
05-12-2009, 09:39 AM
The thread is not deleted, it was locked because of all the comments within. Robert, you can re-post if you're willing. Just be aware that, as I stated above, your only purpose here on these forums thus far has been selling these lenses. We delete lots of postings like this on a regular basis. There is technically not a "for sale" section on this site, although the Jobs and Equipment for hire section tends to get used mostly for that purpose. This site is driven by sponsors and we will attempt to delete any commercial posting made by a non-sponsoring commercial party or a non-contributing private individual. Sales posted by private individuals are OK, as long as the seller is someone who contributes to these forums with other information here and there.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but your first post to these forums was to list these lenses for sale. That is fine, just be aware that if you're an equipment dealer or rental house who is here for no reason other than to sell lenses or other gear, we will probably shut you down. If you are a dealer and will have more items to sell here, there are advertising and sponsorship policies in place, you can contact Jason Ramsey for further info on that.
05-12-2009, 02:30 PM
I feel I should probably comment as my post was the first reply of the nature Robert is talking about...
Firstly, my sincere apologies if anyone, especially you Robert, found my post rude - that was certainly not my intention.
Secondly, my intention was not to belittle your sale in any way, but hoping to make you aware that I felt the price you were asking was possibly too high for the current market (and probably a little high full stop, if I'm honest), and to make you aware - if you weren't already - that in order to sell you may need to lower your price. With the amount of seemingly good quality affordable glass currently under development, selling the lenses you have now for a slight discount may very well be an astute business move as there is every possibility that prices will fall considerably over the next year or so. I was only trying to help really, so again, apologies if I failed to achieve that, which it sounds like I did.
I must admit to feeling a little sorry for you after several follow-up posts to the same tune, but ultimately that just tells you that others do also feel the price is a little high for what's on offer. There is nothing wrong with MkII Speeds - I use them all the time - but generally a seller needs to know his or her market, so in some sense you have at least had useful feedback, I hope...
Sorry once again for any aggravation - nobody needs that in their life.
All the best with your sale and for the future,
05-12-2009, 04:49 PM
As someone who is looking to purchase a set of super speeds in the next 2-3 months, I must say I have seen them as low as 22 (the particular set even had rebuilt new pl mounts) As a potential buyer right now...im not looking at any super speeds for more than 25 thou. Thats the way the market is right now...best of luck!