Codex 4K Digital Recorder and RED ONE

[Priyesh P.]

Some new info (at least for me) about Codex' new 4K compressed DDR:
http://www.fxguide.com/qt/2007/06/23/codex-digital-announces-ground-breaking-portable-field-recorder/

[Tom Lowe]

http://www.fxguide.com/qt/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/codexportsmallstrap.jpg

Wow, so this thing will be able to record 4K overcranked footage coming out of RED's data port?

[Jeff Kilgroe]

That's pretty slick... But at 60fps, it's limited to 4:2:2, which I am assuming is a restriction of its SDI interface. Interfacing via Infiniband or 10G-E optical hopefully wouldn't have that restriction as it should be able to treat the incoming data as simply a raw stream with timecode. ...Provided it can handle the bandwidth.

[Tom Lowe]

Worst case scenario, I could probably live with 4:2:2 if it meant I could overcrank 4K, shooting to this shoe-box.

This is making me think that it would be a good idea for me to rent a second RED with a data port for any show needing overcrankage (for people who are not buying their RED with a data port... which I think is most of us).

[donatello b]

"Two HD-SDI dual-link inputs – can record two 4:4:4 cameras simultaneously, independently (A&B cameras) or locked (ideal for 3D acquisition).
In 4:2:2 mode, the Codex Portable can record four simultaneous cameras.
All frame-rates to 30fps (4:4:4) or 60 fps (4:2:2)."

am i reading it wrong ? .... the above in each case seems to be referring to operationg more then one camera ... is the 60 fps 4:2:2 referring to recording 4 camera's simultaneous ...

"Data:
Infiniband 10Gbps port
1 Gbps Ethernet
10Gbps Ethernet optical port (option)"

"Codex Portable can record from virtually every digital camera available today – including all HD cameras in video mode, plus data-mode from cameras such as the ARRI D-20 TM and DALSA’s Origin®. It can also record Red Digital Cinema’s RED ONE™ camera in 4K data-mode, when it becomes available."

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Well it has two dual-link SDI interfaces. So you could connect two single-link SDI camera outputs to one of those dual-link interfaces with the proper cable system. That gives you four cameras. I'm not sure what it's saying about 4:2:2 at 60fps... I'm sure there's a lot of technical details being left out. What if we just hook up a single 1080p camera and try to shoot 60fps? is that still limited to 4:2:2?

As for the data connections, that shouldn't have any bearing on 4:4:4 vs. 4:2:2 as long there's adequate internal bandwidth and record speed to handle the data stream. It looks like the 10G ethernet is optional and that's the intended interface for RED's RAW Port. It will be interesting to see if they're compatible and to what extent. I'm also curious as to what Infiniband configuration they're intending to offer. There's no specific "10Gbps Infiniband port" per se, but a few ways to cover 10Gbps capacity with Infiniband and currently most devices out there are 4x links with the option to double-up. Which means 8Gbps or 16Gbps. The latter requiring two ports and two cables. They could cover it all with a single 12x link, but 12x hardware is just now starting to crawl onto the market and at huge prices.

[Curran Giddens]

This is making me think that it would be a good idea for me to rent a second RED with a data port for any show needing overcrankage (for people who are not buying their RED with a data port... which I think is most of us).

This is why I decided to be one of those few to buy my RED with the data port option. In case someone needs to rent an extra RED for overcrankage.

[Bruce Allen]

This is why I decided to be one of those few to buy my RED with the data port option. In case someone needs to rent an extra RED for overcrankage.

I checked it out at CineGear today. It has a hole where they are going to put some kind of optical port or something for the Red - whatever it is, they plan to support the Red RAW when the Red comes out with it, I think. Will apply very light JPEG2000 compression, that's it. It's a little expensive to buy, but very cool. Mike and Matt (www.hdforindies.com and www.freshdv.com) got a fuller report from me. I think Mike has my photos up on his site already.

Cheers

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

[Curran Giddens]

[QUOTE=Bruce Allen;53595]I checked it out at CineGear today. It has a hole where they are going to put some kind of optical port or something for the Red - whatever it is, they plan to support the Red RAW when the Red comes out with it, I think. Will apply very light JPEG2000 compression, that's it. It's a little expensive to buy, but very cool. Mike and Matt (www.hdforindies.com and www.freshdv.com) got a fuller report from me. I think Mike has my photos up on his site already.

Good job on the reports. A nice contribution to those who are always keeping us up-to-date on everything.

The Codex is more then a little expensive to buy. There is no way I could ever spend $60k. But, if RED comes out with the RED-RAID for $30k, I would definitely be interested....

[Sanjin Jukic]

http://www.codexdigital.com/portable/images/codex_portable_lg.jpg
Codex Digital's new portable digital cinematography recorder

Download PDF datasheet about Codex Portable
http://www.codexdigital.com/portable/docs/Codex_Portable.pdf

Codex Digital web page
http://www.codexdigital.com/

[Jeremy Hughes]

2540p24 recording. Sounds good.

What's the capacity?

[Tom Lowe]

What's the price?

Assuming RED is not able to offer more FPS onboard by next year, renting a RED with a data port and a recording like this codex seems like a good idea for anyone needing to overcrank.

Otherwise, you have to be willing to bring your resolution down to 1080p.

[Bruce Allen]

Price not set. They said they were aiming for $60,000. But basically this is something you rent. For less than a HDCAM SR deck, and with better workflow in theory.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

[Tom Lowe]

60k... sheesh.

[I Bloom]

Hello to anyone who made it out to Cinegear I'm wondering if anyone got the full skinny on the Codex 4K recorder.

Bruce Allen blogged a bit on HDforIndies.com but I wondered:

1. Can it take 4K Raw at 60fps?
2. Does it need to use the JPEG2000 compression or is this just an option?
3. Does JPEG2000 = Debayering prior to compression?
4. Any ideas on the purchase price/rental rate?
5. Any competitors I should know about it? (RED?)

If 1. No 2. Yes 3. YES, then I wonder what's the point.

Thanks,
IBloom

[I Bloom]

Hello to anyone who made it out to Cinegear I'm wondering if anyone got the full skinny on the Codex 4K recorder.

Bruce Allen blogged a bit on HDforIndies.com but I wondered:

1. Can it take 4K Raw at 60fps?
2. Does it need to use the JPEG2000 compression or is this just an option?
3. Does JPEG2000 = Debayering prior to compression?
4. Any ideas on the purchase price/rental rate?
5. Any competitors I should know about it? (RED?)

If 1. No 2. Yes 3. YES, then I wonder what's the point.

Thanks,
IBloom

Here is the answer to my question:

Codex says:

Format: 4096x2048p
Colourspace: 14-bit Bayer 2:1:1
Frame Rate: 23.98 – 30 fps (4K option only)

Real-time internal demosaicing of Bayer pattern material.

So based on the philosophy of REDCODE, leveraging RAW the Codex recorder seems like a poor option. In addition you can't overcrank, so there seems to be no pount in using this versus going REDCODE to a drive. Other than that there might be less compression, or no compression or and just bayer interpolation.

IBloom

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Hmmm....

Interesting. So it does the de-bayer on a RAW stream itself? What if we prefer to use RED's de-bayer algorithm instead (via REDCINE, presumably)? What if we just want to record the RAW stream and handle the de-bayer in software at a later date. Could their system handle a higher data rate (even up to 60fps for 4.5K) if no processing or de-bayer is taking place, but rather the unit just records the incoming data?

EDIT> ibloom, I merged your thread with the other one we already had going on the Codex. I'm going to see if we can get these posts out of the OT section and have Jarred create a forum section for the discussion of third-party hardware.

[Paul Bamborough]

Hello. Paul here, from Codex - thought I should clarify some of this.

Firstly, the Portable is in fact capable of handling 4K at more than 30 fps - that's just the top rate of the Dalsa, and we didn't put more on the spec sheet because there hasn't been any way of testing it in action yet - when there is, we will. It should go to 48 fps and maybe higher.

Second, we only record the raw Bayer pattern - our onboard real-time debayering is for monitoring and review only. We believe very firmly in recording as close to the sensor's output as possible, and getting the best picture downstream later.

Finally, this model only records compressed (though not very heavily). Our bigger machine is capable of recording 4K uncompressed at 60fps, and 4.5K to 48 fps and maybe further: we won't know for sure until we've tested in detail.

We've been in dialogue with the Red development team since the earliest days, by the way, and are really looking forward to seeing it in action.

And we're always around if you want to know anything about what we do.


paul

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Thanks for stopping by, Paul! :)

I'm anxious to see reports of the Codex recorders in action.