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Miguel "Macgregor" De Olaso
05-14-2009, 04:53 PM
I wonder what quality settings does Vegas choose by itself. Im rending at BEst, and its so fast that i doubt the SDK is using the FULL high quality debayer. Any idea of what is Vegas doing?

Robin Thompson
05-23-2009, 01:31 AM
There is only one codec to use for rendering projects with VEGAS which will give you truly professional results, CINEFORM. http://www.cineform.com/

Peter Moretti
05-23-2009, 01:53 AM
I don't think Cineform works with the 64-bit version of Vegas.

Robin Thompson
05-23-2009, 07:08 AM
I haven't tried the 64bit version but according to the website it does: http://www.cineform.com/neoscene/specifications.php

jbeale
05-23-2009, 10:10 AM
Vegas 9 claims support for DPX output, which is certainly a professional format, but there are reportedly some problems with it (confusion between linear and log space, maybe?)

donatello b
05-23-2009, 08:11 PM
cineform does work with 64bit vista/XP ...
BUT
depending on who tells the story ( cineform or sony) Vegas 64bit does not work with cineform or cineform doesn't work with Vegas 64bit .. seems sony changed something in the way AVI works with 64bit version (SDK) and cineform has yet to update the changes or cineform has told sony what changes they (sony) should make to get it to work ... either way cineform does not work in 64bit Vegas
i guess the good news is
V9 32 bit can read cineform clips if you installed cineform codec..
do not know if neoscene or HD4k cineform encodes in the 32bit V9 ??

Miguel "Macgregor" De Olaso
05-24-2009, 06:18 AM
Good conversations but they have nothing to do with my question.

donatello b
06-11-2009, 09:38 PM
here's some info on how vegas renders when using BEST/GOOD/Preview/draft
this was posted by sony vegas few years backl ...
NOTE: when scaling BEST is recommended


A number of you have asked for a detailed breakdown of the "Video rendering quality" settings found in the .avi render dialog.

The simple explanation is to use "Good" most of the time. This is the default setting. If you want more info, read on...


Quality: Best
Scaling: bi-cubic/integration
Field Handling: on
Field Rendering: on (setting dependent)
Framerate Resample/IFR: on (switch dependent)

Quality: Good
Scaling: bi-linear
Field Handling: on
Field Rendering: on (setting dependent)
Framerate Resample/IFR: on (switch dependent)

Quality: Preview
Scaling: bi-linear
Field Handling: off
Field Rendering: off
Framerate Resample/IFR: always off

Quality: Draft
Scaling: point sample
Field Handling: off
Field Rendering: off
Framerate Resample/IFR: always off

------------------------------
Scaling:
------------------------------

These methods come into play when conforming sources that differ from the output size. They are also used when panned, cropped or resized in track motion.

Bi-Cubic/Integration - Best image resizing algorithm available in Vegas. Quality differences will be most noticeable when using very large stills or stretching small sources.

Bi-linear - Best compromise between speed and quality. This method will produce good results in most cases.

Point Sampling - Fast but produces poor results.


------------------------------
Field Handling:
------------------------------

This refers to the field conformance stage of Vegas's video engine. This includes Interlaced to Progressive conversion, Interlaced to interlaced output when scaling, motion or geometric Video FX and Transitions are involved. Skipping this stage can sometimes result in bad artifacts when high motion interlaced sources are used.


---------------------------------
Field Rendering:
---------------------------------

When the output format is interlaced, Vegas will internally render at the field rate (twice the frame rate) to achieve smooth motion and FX interpolation.

---------------------------------
Frame Rate Resample / IFR (Interlace Flicker Reduction):
---------------------------------

Frame Rate Resample:

This kicks in when speed changes are made through Velocity Envelopes and/or event stretching. In can also be used when up-converting low frame rate sources. This only kicks in if the resample switch is turned on _and_ quality is set to good or best.

Interlace Flicker Reduction:

This kicks in if the event switch is turned on and quality is set to good or best. See Vegas' documentation for a description of this switch.

---------------------------------


Lastly, please note that Vegas will bypass any or all of these potentially expensive processing stages if the resulting output won't be affected by the process (e.g. no-recompress pass-through, field render bypass when settings don't change and so on ...). Differences in the output between different quality settings may not always be noticeable, but that largely depends on various attributes of the source media being used. If you want to see some of these differences first hand, trying using extremely large or small sources or high-motion interlaced shots with extreme pan/crop operations.


Please note that you should never render your final project using anything other than good or best when interlaced sources are involved unless the project only contains cuts. If preview quality is used, the resulting video will vary between acceptable to disastrous depending on your project and its media content

Miguel "Macgregor" De Olaso
06-12-2009, 04:21 AM
Thanks, but the question was more about what process settings were used with the r3ds.

Kyle Mallory
06-15-2009, 04:59 PM
Macgregor,

My understanding is that it depends on the project resolution. I've noticed that the lower resolution the project settings are, the faster it decodes. Based on this, I suspect they are recoding the relevant next largest "proxy" in order to meet the resolution demands of the project.

In other words, if you shoot 4k, but master at 2k, I *believe* Vegas will only decode the 1/2 res quality. If you master for SD, then it will decode the 1/4 res, at 1024x512 (at 2:1). Anyway, you get the point.

Kyle

Miguel "Macgregor" De Olaso
06-15-2009, 05:12 PM
Hi Kyle i agree on what you say.
I did a test to check for that. Drop a 4K R3d on a 640x360 timeline and zoom in a lot, You can see that the renders slows done in a couple moments, probably those corresponding to 1/2 and full debayer.

Now, what id like is to be able to have a quality debayer render that i can choose from.

Miguel "Macgregor" De Olaso
06-17-2009, 05:57 AM
Ok, so i just figured it out.
Anything under 2048 VEgas must be using 1/2 res. I get this info by looking at render speeds.

So if you want a FULL debayer, either you render you project at anything higher than 2048px or you have to crop your footage a couple pixels in a 2K project.

Not so good.

donatello b
06-17-2009, 09:13 AM
"There is only one codec to use for rendering projects with VEGAS which will give you truly professional results, CINEFORM"

just for your info :
seems cineform does shift in VEGAS when using YUV clips ...according to discussion over at
http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?MessageID=656367&Replies=151

"However Vegas does something we don't recommend for good multi-gen, RGB to YUV transforms and back again over each generation. In 444 RGB or native YUV modes in tools like Premiere and FCP, we avoid colorspace switches as much as possible (or use 32-bit float precision when one is need.) Yet Vegas requests RGB 4:4:4 data from a 4:2:2 YUV source, in 8-bit, and there is issue with multi-generation. If you use the CineForm RGB 4:4:4 codec in Vegas all is fine (I've done 50+ generations.) So errors seen above after x-generation are accumulated colorspace transcoding errors -- any smear is due to leaving 4:2:2 to 4:4:4 "

David Newman
06-17-2009, 11:34 AM
Donatello,

That is only for the hobbiest using $129 Neo Scene in Vegas. Anyone using Red should be running Neo 4K and that is a 4:4:4 product with not such issues (no colorspace conversions, therefore no colorspace multi-generation errors.)

However, that is also old information, and at was addressed in the latest builds of Neo Scene. See my last post here http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?MessageID=659699&Replies=19 (I'm "_dan_")