Camera rebooting while recording, 3 cameras, different cables,etc..getting frustrated

[Vladmartins]

Hi everyone,

I hope somebody can help me, this is getting really frustrating...

On a feature film at the moment in Glasgow and this is our kit:

Red Camera
Red Craddle
Drive cable
320gb Red drive
Red LCD
Red EVF
Lockit box connected
Radio mic connected
Cinepower Block Batteries 13.2V
IDX 14.8v batteries

Using RC36, 4K 16:9, Fan setting Silent, Build 18 (we used 17 last week same issues)

After recording for a while camera reboots itself, no warning no nothing, just reboots...we changed body now twice and still the same, changed drive cable, using 2 red drives and both happen the same, using onboard batteries (IDX) happens the same as block ones, trying now without lockit box connected.

Running out of options...anyone can help? I'm working as a 2nd AC but have a broad knowledge of RED as i have been a DIT throughout last year and this year...

Anyone??

Thanks.

[Alex Carr]

Are you using any 7" RED LCD's?

[Ariana]

I've had some problems with third party batteries dropping in voltage too fast and batteries not being seated properly causing reboots.

[Dominic Jones]

The only reboot issues I've ever had have been due to dodgy battery pin connections on the cradle. That would be my first port of call for the IDX part of the equation. Never used blocks with a Red, so no help there I'm afraid - although that said it seems strange to get the same power problem from two different sources...

Have you tried mains power?

I would suggest, if possible, you try the following:

1) Strip down everything off of the camera, except EVF. Use CF cards instead of drives. Disable any and all audio recording. Perform a black shading.

2) Source a new cradle and some Red-brand batteries.

See if this works. If it does, then you're getting somewhere... Now start adding back kit (I'd suggest you try drives first, audio second, then LCD and finally power) until you re-create the issue.

If it doesn't work on any of your bodies, then I'm truly stumped.

Hope that helps, good luck - horrible situation...
Dom.

[Sean R.]

I sent you a PM. Please feel free to contact me directly as well.

Sean Ruggeri
sean at red dot com
949-206-7900 ext. 7922

[Vladmartins]

Not using 7inch LCD, just the basic red LCD, 5" right?

Yes, craddle sometimes can get faulty but in this case it happens with blocks as well.
In the beginning I thought it could be from the blocks when it drops to 13.2V as a fresh block was going fine but this problem happens now and then, never at a specific stage...

Going to try tomorrow using just 16Gb CF cards all day and see if that works.

Want to get Red-brand batteries but camera company doesn't have any and keeps insisting that is not the battery power and that they never had a problem before with other clients...

Dominic, those tests i wish i could do them but we are having about 25 to 30 setups a day which makes already the DP stressed out and everyone on set so i can't take the camera away from them...i tried many times outside the set with another one and it works but once it jumps on set reboot can happen any time...so confusing.

My theory is either red drive or cable (although two of them) and if that isn't then changing to RED brand batteries.

i love RED's but one little thing that happens on a production they always hate the RED after...i wish camera companies could be more helpfull...

Thanks.

[Dominic Jones]

My theory is either red drive or cable (although two of them) and if that isn't then changing to RED brand batteries.

Sounds like a good plan to me, definitely. Try and negotiate a replacement/spare cradle as well. I know you're having the problem with the blocks, so it's an unlikely source of problems but maybe, just maybe, you've got two different power problems and that's what's causing the confusion. Try to narrow down any and all room for error in the system.

If you haven't already, definitely try stable mains power as well...

It's difficult to do any real testing in a production environment for sure. It's also so difficult when you've got intermittent problems like that. I do feel for you mate, hang in there and just keep on working the problem, you'll get it sorted in the end.

Hope tomorrow's a better day...
Dom.

[Sacha Riviere]

Vlad as mentioned previously, power source and battery connections have been a somewhat common occurrence of failure.
But you mention using 3 cameras in your post.
Is the re-boot happening only on 1 camera? all 3? or randomly?

[Vladmartins]

all 3 have the same issue...

it could be craddle as well as Dominic says, lets see the cards for one day tomorrow and hopefully i get more conclusions, will get red batteries and new red craddle...

have to be optimistic...i hope the producer will think the same though.

Thanks for your support, will let you know the outcome.

[Cail Young]

Is it shutting down or rebooting?

Power interruption or undervoltage results in a shutdown, not a reboot.

Are you seeing a blue LCD image after the problem?

Are you running Build 18?

Are you using the /i enabled PL Mount?

[Craig Ruurds]

I have had this problem on a couple of occasions with original RED batteries and IDX...I also had the same issues with the D900 up converter v-lock cradle... Only solution is gaffer tape them in place. Crude but it works and ensures the batteries make contact. The rebooting is due to bad contact and wear on the v-lock system. Since I been gaffer taping em in place no more issues....
As for your block battery rebooting I have no answer and have not experienced this as:head_explode: yet..

[David Wyatt]

Definitely try powering your defective Red(s?) via mains even if it means taking it back to the hotel and staying up late! If the problem persists on mains without any of the cradle, IDX batteries in the equation then a) I'd be very surprised & b) I think it should be down to the rental company to provide a replacement camera (you're paying good money for this, right?).

Have the camera(s) had the audio board upgrade? They replace all the battery pins on battery plates & chargers so most booting, re-booting problems should disappear. Ask your camera rental company if they've had the upgrade.

I wouldn't use the IDX batteries personally - are they the ones where you have to piggy-back two together to get the required power (if so that's a recipe for disaster IMHO - I think in this case one of the batteries will drain before the other and cause the camera to shut down unexpectedly if you're not closely monitoring them all day...which is hard on a kick-bollock-scramble shoot).

It's not really a good enough excuse for a rental company to say "we've never had any problems with the kit before", so if I were you I'd insist at least on Red batteries as well as battery plates/cradles/chargers with upgraded pins (even if they have to cross-hire them in, it'd be worth doing for say a week to see if that solves your problem).

Let us all know what happens and if there's any solution/resolution.

[Steve Gal]

I would be curious how all your batteries will do on a drain test with a 4 amp load or more. 13.2 volts is not the best for the Red. I have tried before and camera boots up and then shuts down. If it isn't the battery plate pins being faulty then I would suspect a battery problem. When you load up the Red with all the goodies, it is very demanding for power.

[Brent J. Craig]

WHY do you have the fan setting on SILENT. Could your reboots be a heating issue?

Is the camera hooked up to a video assist cart? If yes, check every power cable the video guy is using. If you find any with broken-off ground pins, slap him then solve the problem.

I have found Reds crash/reboot MUCH more frequently when they are connected to video assist. It could be grounding issues, stray voltage, something coming back down the SDI line, whatever. I just know R1's are almost bullet-proof when used stand-alone, and become much more crashy when hooked up to the rest of the world!

[Adrian Van Rossum]

My hunch would be the battery mount pins as well if they are not the upgraded battery plates. The 'no problems till now' attitude of the rental company suggests the male power connection 'pins' have been fine, nice and springy 'till now', but unfortunately on your set they are showing the wear and are losing their ability to spring wide to touch the sides of the female battery recepticles .

This is all just a hunch from our own personal experience with shutdown problems. Sounds like it could mean a midnight run down to Pinewood and the Red Service Centre if they allow it, or a call to Ronx (http://reduser.net/forum/member.php?u=2958) near you in Yorkshire to see if he can swing by with his gear to troubleshoot the fault. I recall he has rented Red to a Hollyoaks set and may have some better advice. Just and idea.

[J. Eric Camp]

I was wondering about the SLIENT mode choice as well.

Keep an eye on the temp warnings, as that may be your problem. What it the temp currently where you are?

Does it shut down or reboot? Those are two very different things.

[Hugo Lang]

Hello all

Was shooting a few test today on time lapse and rebooting happend during playback on the LCD.

I will try a few of your suggestions and see if i can solve it. Have any of you had this problem. Can it be the soft wear maybe??

I am a new user but like it so far.

Let me know what you guys think from a very warm Dubai.

Regards and Thank you.

[Brent J. Craig]

Was shooting a few test today on time lapse and rebooting happend during playback on the LCD.

I've only seen that happen with builds prior to 17.

[Vladmartins]

I will explain all the tests i have made and conclusions but i found the problem. both red-drives...will text later tonight...

[Brent@RED]

Vladmartins, glad you isolated the issue. Please post an incident ticket on www.red.com/support with what you found as well as here.

BC

[John Howarth]

I will explain all the tests i have made and conclusions but i found the problem. both red-drives...will text later tonight...

Hi Vlad,

Would be interested to hear your conclusions on this issue - did you manage to resolve it?

[Brent J. Craig]

Would be interested to hear your conclusions on this issue...

Yes Vlad. Experienced Reduser members rushed to answer your questions within 13 minutes of your first (ever) post. The least you could do is tell us how you solved the problem.

[Stuart English]

I have found Reds crash/reboot MUCH more frequently when they are connected to video assist. It could be grounding issues, stray voltage, something coming back down the SDI line, whatever. I just know R1's are almost bullet-proof when used stand-alone, and become much more crashy when hooked up to the rest of the world!

If it is hooked up to video assist, is it using a third party mini-HD-SDI and mini-XLR to full size HD-SDI and XLR adaptor?

[TATOU]

Is it shutting down or rebooting?

Power interruption or undervoltage results in a shutdown, not a reboot.

Are you seeing a blue LCD image after the problem?

Are you running Build 18?

Are you using the /i enabled PL Mount?

In my case, It's reboot and blue screen.
What hapened

[Brent J. Craig]

If it is hooked up to video assist, is it using a third party mini-HD-SDI and mini-XLR to full size HD-SDI and XLR adaptor?

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Hardly ever hooked up to sound, just HDSDI.

[Vladmartins]

Guys, im really sorry but the shoot has been a nightmare since the beginning, something is causing the camera to reboot, its not the drives or cards...i will still check other things but it has been 3 weeks of rebooting everyday.

Brent i think that theory on HD-SDI connections might be something for me to check...

i will let everyone know what was the problem but at the moment it still happening even on 16 gb cards.

[Stuart English]

Brent and Vlad,

When you do hook up HD-SDI, are you using 3rd party adaptors that mount to the camera body, or are you using the short mini-BNC to BNC cable from RED?

[Brent J. Craig]

Brent and Vlad,

When you do hook up HD-SDI, are you using 3rd party adaptors that mount to the camera body, or are you using the short mini-BNC to BNC cable from RED?

Sometimes third-party adaptors, sometimes the Red adaptors, sometimes a third-party adaptor that is built with the actual Red cables inside.

[Chris Parker]

i find some rebooting occurring for what seems to be loose battery connections between the RED bricks and battery plate. does this rebooting occur when plugged into a block battery as well? anyone?

also, today am having an issue with my camera. it is plugged into block battery on dolly. when i need to change battery and re-start camera, it only blinks on and off on the REAR display on the RED. the camera does not power up. i have to unplug all accessories (only a RED LCD, and DRIVE, and timecode box attached today so far) and then turn it off and on again, and it starts up. then i can put my accs. back in and shoot. it has happened twice so far and is starting to worry me.

any word on this from anyone?

[Brent J. Craig]

i find some rebooting occurring for what seems to be loose battery connections between the RED bricks and battery plate. does this rebooting occur when plugged into a block battery as well? anyone?

In my case(s) it was not related to the battery pins issue. 2 of the shoots were using battery blocks and 1 was using the Red AC adaptor.


also, today am having an issue with my camera. it is plugged into block battery on dolly. when i need to change battery and re-start camera, it only blinks on and off on the REAR display on the RED. the camera does not power up. i have to unplug all accessories (only a RED LCD, and DRIVE, and timecode box attached today so far) and then turn it off and on again, and it starts up. then i can put my accs. back in and shoot. it has happened twice so far and is starting to worry me.

I haven't seen this happen in build 17. In earlier builds you often had to unplug the LCD and EVF to get it to boot. I vaguely remember a thread here about booting problems when using a Lockit box. Try just unplugging the TC and see if that allows you to boot. (PS - obviously your shoot is using the wrong crew because I am home typing this :-)

[Guidofilippi]

I had same trouble with one of my two Reds when we changed from Build 16 to B17. Went back to B16... no more problems ever! And that was in January.
OK, I cannot use the 16GB cards and lost a couple of instruments... but we can work!
I would suggest that you try reinstalling B16 and check out results.
Anyway, one or two reboots per day may be considered "inherent to the Red"!
Waiting anxioulsly for B18 Final Version (about to ty Beta 18)...
Guido

[Brent J. Craig]

...one or two reboots per day may be considered "inherent to the Red"!

No way!

[Carlos Prio]

I had the same issue to the point of total frustration and nearly jumping off RED. After many repairs and many spare bodies with the same random reboot/blue screen failures we have concluded that the most probable cause was/is RF induced failures!!! Wifi, 5.4mhz portables, walkies, 10- 30" displays in a closed concrete room??? As ridiculous as this may sound the Iphone was our #1 culprit.

Since our adoption of no cell phones of any kind within 20ft of the camera in an open setting or no cell phones period in a closed setting we have experienced nearly 0 reboots. This policy has also contributed to a much more efficient set!!!! "F" Cell phones!!!! The producer is the only one allowed to have a live phone

[Matthew Rogers]

In my case, It's reboot and blue screen.
What hapened

I had the exact same thing happen yesterday probably 4-5 times on a shoot. It would suddenly start showing the booting screen and then go blue on the 5" LCD. It was very random about when it would happen. I thought maybe it was a heat issue because the camera was pretty hot (Atlanta GA in the summer, 90F+ and probably about 80 humidity.) The body never said it was too hot, so I'm not sure if that was the issue. I was running build 17, so maybe that was the issue? Also, I was using the ET breakout box for the HD-SDI. I don't see how it could be RF as I've used my cell phone, iphones, and walkies a ton around different RED's with zero problems.

Would love to find out what the issue is...

Matthew

[Carlos Prio]

I know it sounds nuts!!!! But I had experienced continued (every 5-10 minute intervals) reboot/blue screens on 2 major location shoots and I was totally upset!!! Shipped my body 3 times to CA... loaner bodies, etc... Red tried everything to make me whole but I continued to experience the same thing with 2 bodies side by side!!!

After months of the same issue thats when it dawned upon me to shut everything down. Our main studio is a concrete bunker with RF on top of RF... Every conceivable consumer & professional electronic component!!! We shut everything down and then and only then has there been "0" issues. Just 24hrs ago I was out on a 94 degree direct sun shoot with a rain machine. The camera was scorching!!! Nothing!!!! No Issues whatsoever!!!

Now, you may ask that my problems occurred mainly on location and not in my bunker??? Yes you are right! Thus why the iphone has become enemy #1. Why, because a G3 was always in my pocket and the original iphone was always in my AC's pocket. Since the RF realization, there are no iphones and magically- no reboots!!! Coincidence??? probably!!! but since our iphones make every speaker in the building buzz it may not be to far fetched!!!!

P



I had the exact same thing happen yesterday probably 4-5 times on a shoot. It would suddenly start showing the booting screen and then go blue on the 5" LCD. It was very random about when it would happen. I thought maybe it was a heat issue because the camera was pretty hot (Atlanta GA in the summer, 90F+ and probably about 80 humidity.) The body never said it was too hot, so I'm not sure if that was the issue. I was running build 17, so maybe that was the issue? Also, I was using the ET breakout box for the HD-SDI. I don't see how it could be RF as I've used my cell phone, iphones, and walkies a ton around different RED's with zero problems.

Would love to find out what the issue is...

Matthew

[Matthew Rogers]

I know it sounds nuts!!!! But I had experienced continued (every 5-10 minute intervals) reboot/blue screens on 2 major location shoots and I was totally upset!!! Shipped my body 3 times to CA... loaner bodies, etc... Red tried everything to make me whole but I continued to experience the same thing with 2 bodies side by side!!!

After months of the same issue thats when it dawned upon me to shut everything down. Our main studio is a concrete bunker with RF on top of RF... Every conceivable consumer & professional electronic component!!! We shut everything down and then and only then has there been "0" issues. Just 24hrs ago I was out on a 94 degree direct sun shoot with a rain machine. The camera was scorching!!! Nothing!!!! No Issues whatsoever!!!

Now, you may ask that my problems occurred mainly on location and not in my bunker??? Yes you are right! Thus why the iphone has become enemy #1. Why, because a G3 was always in my pocket and the original iphone was always in my AC's pocket. Since the RF realization, there are no iphones and magically- no reboots!!! Coincidence??? probably!!! but since our iphones make every speaker in the building buzz it may not be to far fetched!!!!

P

I wonder if has not so much to do with the iPhone as the GSM signal that AT&T uses. I have a verizon phone so that would make sense why I don't have it happen to me. However, I worked with a DP last year who was operating and had an iPhone and we had *zero* issues. Could it be something with Build 17 and the iPhone? I'm going to have my friend who has an iPhone test it with me Monday to see if that's the issue.

Anyone at RED have any clues?

Matthew

[Carlos Prio]

Again, this is just a far fetched idea which is why I have kept it to myself. But brother I gave RED hell and was really on the verge of giving up on a very beloved platform. I am happy to report that me and "Elvira" have been banging like bunnies ever since and in complete lust!!!!



I wonder if has not so much to do with the iPhone as the GSM signal that AT&T uses. I have a verizon phone so that would make sense why I don't have it happen to me. However, I worked with a DP last year who was operating and had an iPhone and we had *zero* issues. Could it be something with Build 17 and the iPhone? I'm going to have my friend who has an iPhone test it with me Monday to see if that's the issue.

Anyone at RED have any clues?

Matthew

[JanneJansson]

I have managed to hang both Digibeta, P2 and Nikon D* cams with RF.
If you ever shoot on a military ship, you find out what RF can do to cams ;)

Cellphones are adjusting there transmission power based on how good the connection is to the base station. If you are in a bunker, the phone will transmitt MAXIMUM and the RF will be very high.

Just turn OFF all cellphones when shooting always!

[JanneJansson]

..and ferrit cores on ALL cables also help... even audio cables.

http://www.rcmdirect.co.uk/store/images/FerriteClip.jpg

[Gediminas Vansevicius]

I just came across this thread. Have had those reboots and blue screens occassionally, and my suspicion has been the batteries, at least I managed to isolate a couple of bricks that seemed to reproduce the effect, so we excluded them from usage. We had a terrible experience on a particular shooting, when both our cameras started switching off, one of red drives failed - the camera refused to see it giving a message on reformatting required, and we couldn't mount that drive on a macbook pro, lost one scene this way and were lucky to have just enough daylight left to reshoot that particular section. I was already consumed with the idea of next day's reshoot and me paying for it... No red drives for us since then, only cfs. But after reading these thoughts about the RF thing... interesting. On that nightmarish occasion we had transvideo transmitter hooked, Miranda downconverter, and so on. I guess Red should investigate these issues.. Anyway, been too busy to even complain about something like this, cameras are rented every second day on average, so I guess we can't expect everything to function perfectly forever.

[Ken Willinger]

This same reboot/blue screen issue has occurred with my camera now as well. It was on a 20 day film in June with no problems till day 18 where the random reboot started happening. It would happen during takes and the camera would freeze as it tried to post. This has happened on battery and on Reds AC adapter. We thought it may be a drive problem as it happened only on one drive. But it happened yesterday on the other drive. I'm a bit nervous now as I have a big job starting in 2 weeks with the camera. Is this something that is happening in build 20? Is 20 stable enough to move into for a job?