HV20 Footage?

[pat@hpnc.com]

Hi all I have been looking for some good examples of HV20 footage. Does any one know of any? Most interesting I have seen is this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACVZp-UMD0Y

[ColinSmith]

Not really been checking out the footage, but have you been to the HV20 forums (http://www.hv20.com/)?

[pat@hpnc.com]

Thanks for the tip will check it out.

[Bruce Allen]

I'll be posting a lot this weekend with light meter readings too..

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

[Adrian Correia]

I love that little camera. How about those waterproof sanyo excit cameras that record to Mpeg4? I love those things....want one for a pocket cam...just for shooting location scouts and such....the quality is pretty impressive...

[pat@hpnc.com]

Thanks Bruce cant wait to see the footage.

[Petr Dvorak]

rainy day is awesome, here is original 720p footage from Salomon
http://www.nightfallinteractive.com/sc/HV20/rain.wmv

and thread
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=93855&highlight=Rainy+Day

HV20 footage on DVinfo
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/forumdisplay.php?f=149

[Jeremy Hughes]

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/forumdisplay.php?f=104

HV20 at DVXuser

[pat@hpnc.com]

Thanks for all the links. Seems a lot of people are interested in this little camera. I just have to wonder when someone is going to hack it to get more control out of it.

[Jason Francois]

Thanks for all the links. Seems a lot of people are interested in this little camera. I just have to wonder when someone is going to hack it to get more control out of it.

I hope somebody comes out with some cool hacks quickly, because I'm thinking seriously about shooting a ultra-low budget this Winter and I might even use 2 or 3 HV20's so that I can trash 'em during the shoot (just need to let off some steam waiting for my RED).... :)

I'm a bit worried about shooting HDV and shooting 24p on this camera, but I might just let it rip anyway.

[Bruce Allen]

What further hacks do you need? Combine it with a 35mm adapter and you are golden. Don't trash those HV20s, insanityfw, give them to me.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

[Ace]

If only the rolling shutter thing wasn't so in your face when it happens..

[Joel Kaye]

I'm a bit worried about shooting HDV and shooting 24p on this camera, but I might just let it rip anyway.

They are nice little cameras. You'll get good results... the manual settings suck though. I wouldn't worry about HDV these days. Canon seems to have that codec working really well. It ain't like the original HDV stuff by a long shot. I'd rather have RED, but I think people have trashed HDV way beyond reason - and rarely differentiate between the many implementations.

If you were doing a greenscreen movie HDV might add pain... well actually you could take the HDMI out of that camera precompression... so you could do that too.

Anyway - I've seen enough footage from that camera to be a believer. RED is still the real solution though. Shooting RED should be fast and fun WITH mind blowing quality. :-)

If you need an extra hand on your movie let me know.

[Jason Francois]

Bruce. I'll actually go pretty easy on them. I'm thinking, in reality, that it might be most feasible to shoot one with a Brevis setup and leave the other for wide shots, pick ups and a few crazy ideas I have in mind. I won't beat up on them too badly.

Ace-I have yet to see any in my friends footage or the very limited amount that I've shot, but I have no doubt that it could crop up.

Joel-Maybe we can talk more about HDV sometime or maybe at the next RED meeting. Thanks for the offer to help, but I don't know if i'm going to entice too many people because it's going to be a quick and cheap psychological-horror flick with a budget at about the price of a lightly kitted RED. My RED should be out around that time, but it's going to be tough to be ready to shoot on the RED and make a feature. WE'll see.

I'll get in touch when I lock down more specifics. I have the location and am working on a pretty cool script, so we'll see.

[pat@hpnc.com]

What further hacks do you need? Combine it with a 35mm adapter and you are golden. Don't trash those HV20s, insanityfw, give them to me.
More manuel controls.

[Jason Francois]

More manuel controls.

exactly. I'm going to have to find shooters that are willing to work with consumer camera controls.

OK, I've hijacked a good portion of this thread. Pat, how's the footage search coming along?

I can't find most of the footage I was originally hunting for, but it's been a good and bad experience.

I'm excited about what this camera can do. I'm more excited about what RED will do, but this camera does seem to give the opportunity to play and experiment.

[Bruce Allen]

exactly. I'm going to have to find shooters that are willing to work with consumer camera controls.

Most prosumer cameras suck too. Fly-by-wire focus, etc. Most of the DPs I work with come from a film background and hate them!

I'd argue that a HV20 with 35mm adapter has better manual focus controls than any camera for the buck ($2000) - that is, its focus control is the nice focus ring on your 35mm lens ;) Add a follow focus and you have fantastic focus control for less than a "pro" HD camera.

Regarding shutter speed, it's not hard at all to lock it at 1/48. Regarding exposure and white balance, those aren't hard to lock either. You can lock audio levels too. Buy yourself a compact external mixer with real knobs and again, you beat the "pro" HD cameras in the manual control department for less money.

Yes, I wish you could control f-stop / gain independently. But the camera is smart. Throw enough light at it to get the gain down, lock your exposure and go.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

[Alexander Nikishin]

The HV20 packs a punch in resolution, but in all other areas, it's a toy to me.

[Steven M. Bailey]

The HV20 packs a punch in resolution, but in all other areas, it's a toy to me.

Everything is a toy. Its more about how you play the game and how big your budget for toys is. Red is just a cooler toy.:biggrin:

[Alexander Nikishin]

Red ain't no toy, Red is a mean 4K killing macheen!

[Jonathan L. Bowen]

Red ain't no toy, Red is a mean 4K killing macheen!

Amen. Booya! ;)

[John Godden]

I bought an HV20 back in Feb. Used it for a couple of months.

Overall, it's an amazing little cam. VERY good for 'locked-down' interview type use.

**** That said, IMHO HDV really sucks as a codec (artifacts like crazy) and the camera really struggles when used for any type of action work (which is what I bought it for). I recently sold the camera.

If the Red-mini was available that's what I would probably go for. I'll probably pick up an HVX in the mean time as I don't expect the mini for quite some time.

YMMV
JohnG

[Steven M. Bailey]

Red ain't no toy, Red is a mean 4K killing macheen!

If you truly love what you do, than all of your tools are toys, and all of your work is play. If not, life is short and you should find something else to do.

RED is a Toy, AND a lean, mean, competition smokin' Killing macheen!!

[P Andersson]

"I'm gonna try 2 tame your little RED love machine "
Prince

[Jason Francois]

I'd argue that a HV20 with 35mm adapter has better manual focus controls than any camera for the buck ($2000) - that is, its focus control is the nice focus ring on your 35mm lens ;) Add a follow focus and you have fantastic focus control for less than a "pro" HD camera.

www.boacinema.com

I hope this is as true as it seems. I too come from the film world, so everything digital has always been a bit scary to me. Come to think of it, so was film. Hell, I'm just a scaredy-cat.

The thing about the HV20 with an adapter is that it feels like the old film-school days where you grab an old BL, a few rolls of film and go out and shoot. Not that I don't want the shoot to be professional feeling, but I want to maintain that experimentation energy that is so fun with simple, cheap cameras.

That said, I'll probably end up shooting on RED and will be afraid to get finger prints on the camera and i wont take it outside to shoot. :)

[pat@hpnc.com]

OK, I've hijacked a good portion of this thread. Pat, how's the footage search coming along?
Well I think I have seen enough to know that if you understand the limitations of the camera and can get some nice shots from it. I will probobly go pick one up really soon. The build the vibrating type 35mm lense adapter and get the rail system and mattebox etc. Then shoot with it until I can afford something better.

[Jason Francois]

Well I think I have seen enough to know that if you understand the limitations of the camera and can get some nice shots from it. I will probobly go pick one up really soon. The build the vibrating type 35mm lense adapter and get the rail system and mattebox etc. Then shoot with it until I can afford something better.

Pat, have you looked at just buying a good adapter like the Brevis? I know that most people build their own, with such mixed reviews.

I know the guy that was one of the originators of the 35mm adapter concept and he has a brilliant inventors mind (not saying you don't as well) and still never got too many adapters to market, because of all the complications.

[pat@hpnc.com]

Sure I looked at the Brevis and would like to have one. But the money so very tight at the moment the price difference is why I am building one. The Brevis is $853.59 for the cheaper one. I can build one for about $150. Both are vibrating types. And I believe the internal glass is the same quality. But honestly if I had the money I would rather buy one and be done with it.

[Petr Dvorak]

I hope somebody comes out with some cool hacks quickly,

there is LCD picture flip hack on Brevis forum pages for HV20 :wink:

[Alexander Nikishin]

If you truly love what you do, than all of your tools are toys, and all of your work is play. If not, life is short and you should find something else to do.

Well then let's put it this way, the HV20 is a crappy toy with very little buttons to play with, whereas even an HVX outdoes it.

I like well designed toys.

[Bruce Allen]

Well then let's put it this way, the HV20 is a crappy toy with very little buttons to play with, whereas even an HVX outdoes it.

I like well designed toys.

Me too, but let's face it - sensor technology is progressing so rapidly that it's a bit stupid to pay a fortune for something "well-designed" in this segment. Much better to go for bang-for-the buck.

I've made the point before that for less than an HVX cost, you can outfit your HV20 with a 35mm adapter, nice mixer, monitor, etc and get those nice buttons. You'll still have money left over to swap it out for a HV40 with a better sensor later.

Anyway, each to his own. I am not into gear much - the process and the end product is all I care about. For that, the HV20 is perfect - the picture quality is great. I've already shot dust elements with my HV20 that are in a tv show main title sequence and look forward to doing lots more...

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

[Alexander Nikishin]

The HV20's shutter issue leaves the camera unusable for anything aside from a locked off shot.

Like I said, great resolution, not much else to brag about though.

Although it does make for the ultimate home video camera.

[Bruce Allen]

The HV20's shutter issue leaves the camera unusable for anything aside from a locked off shot.


Have you actually used one? Are you aware that the Red's Crossing The Line footage suffers from the same "shutter issue"? I don't think it's much of an issue. If you don't like it, are you going to sell your Red? I'd rather have shutter artifacts on a $1000 camera package than a $18000 one.



Like I said, great resolution, not much else to brag about though.

I buy a camera to use it, not brag about it. I think some Red people are buying their camera to brag about it though.



Although it does make for the ultimate home video camera.


Again, I have just used it for a professional job - the dust elements for the graphics package for an upcoming show called LA Ink (on TLC).

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

[Steven M. Bailey]

Well then let's put it this way, the HV20 is a crappy toy with very little buttons to play with, whereas even an HVX outdoes it.

I like well designed toys.

I agree as far as the very little buttons go. The thing was ergonomically designed for use by a nine year old girl. My banana hands fit around it twice. All I wanted was the 1080p 24p. no gain. no white balance. Just one little cmos censor to play with until my Red Renegades ARE Rip-roaring-and ready to rumble.

Sure RED is better but if someone is producing a good product with a "crappy little toy" than profs to them.

Its amazing how fast technology changes and we forget where we came from, and how fast we become spoiled by our successes.

[Alexander Nikishin]

Have you actually used one?

Yes, I've actually used one.

I've used it both with and without a 35mm adapter (Redrock M2).


Are you aware that the Red's Crossing The Line footage suffers from the same "shutter issue"?

The Red camera uses a much more solid, and to my eyes, strobe free shutter tear. So to answer your question, I don't see this issue with Red originated footage, only from the HV20.


I don't think it's much of an issue. If you don't like it, are you going to sell your Red? I'd rather have shutter artifacts on a $1000 camera package than a $18000 one.

Like I said, the shutter issue is not evident in Red footage.


I buy a camera to use it, not brag about it. I think some Red people are buying their camera to brag about it though.

Damn straight! Well actually, the bragging will just be icing on the cake.


Again, I have just used it for a professional job - the dust elements for the graphics package for an upcoming show called LA Ink (on TLC).

I have a dvx you can borrow to do the same job if you'd like. :huh:

[pat@hpnc.com]

Alexander I think you miss the point. I am getting the HV20 becouse of what I can afford at the moment. And honestly right at this moment until I find out for sure about the next contract I cant afford that. So I am thrilled there is a camera with the features of this one for the money. Would I rather have a Red Yes. Or an HVX200 sure. Or even a DVX100 for some extra control. But unless you want to donate your DVX to me it looks like its going to be the HV20 and I am thankfull to have something in that price range with that quality.

[Bruce Allen]

I've used it both with and without a 35mm adapter (Redrock M2).

Cool. Would like to compare your results to SGpro (what I have tested with it).


The Red camera uses a much more solid, and to my eyes, strobe free shutter tear. So to answer your question, I don't see this issue with Red originated footage, only from the HV20.

Everything I've seen so far with the HV20 has been more like a shutter warp, which is identical to what I see in the fast pans from Crossing The Line. Unless you're shooting with strobes or there is a lightning flash or something crazy? But then I think you'd have problems with the Red. Hopefully they will tweak the rate so high you can't notice it though.


Damn straight! Well actually, the bragging will just be icing on the cake.

Yeah, I love that part about Red users.


I have a dvx you can borrow to do the same job if you'd like. :huh:
No thanks. We were pushing through the elements in 3D space. Output was anamorphic SD. So we needed it at higher res. A guy where I work has an HVX200 which we could have used. There was no need for it though - the HV20 was perfect.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

[John Godden]

The HV20's shutter issue leaves the camera unusable for anything aside from a locked off shot.

Like I said, great resolution, not much else to brag about though.

Although it does make for the ultimate home video camera.

I disagree on the "ultimate home........." description.

IMO, it's really better suited for studio interview use where it would be absolutely superb. IMHO, it's actually somewhat mediocre for "home use" due to the rather unforgiving nature of how it handles motion (both camera and scene).

YMMV with this camera. :matrix:
JohnG

[Keith Alan Morris]

Ymmg?

[Alexander Nikishin]

Yea, ymmg! ?

[Steven M. Bailey]

YMMV
Your mileage may vary

not all results are the same

I'm guessing???

[Alexander Nikishin]

Your mother makes vermicelli?

[Steven M. Bailey]

I google acronyms often as I am not an avid blogger. This is the only site I have ever posted on. "Your mileage may vary" was the only legit response that came up.

[John Godden]

Yea, ymmg! ?

ymmg? <---- :umm:

[Steven M. Bailey]

Typing with gloves?

[Tom Lowe]

Guys can I jump in here with a quick question about HV20 footage?

The first project I want to shoot with my forthcoming HV20 is a small music video for a musician friend. Can I shoot 59fps and somehow convert this into "overcranked" footage? Maybe using Adobe After Effects to make it seem progressive? Will it look decent if I maybe downsample the 1080p footage to 720p?

[Bruce Allen]

The first project I want to shoot with my forthcoming HV20 is a small music video for a musician friend. Can I shoot 59fps and somehow convert this into "overcranked" footage? Maybe using Adobe After Effects to make it seem progressive? Will it look decent if I maybe downsample the 1080p footage to 720p?

Yes. Shoot 60i. Deinterlace with deinterlacer of choice.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

[Tom Lowe]

Yes. Shoot 60i. Deinterlace with deinterlacer of choice.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

Would AE be a good choice? Can Premiere Pro CS3 do it? I've always worked with native 24p cameras, so this is something new for me.

[Keith Alan Morris]

I'll be posting a lot this weekend with light meter readings too..

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

Hey Bruce, where is that HV20 footage?

[pat@hpnc.com]

Speaking of 60i for slow motion thats what they used in this test. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACVZp-UMD0Y

[Tom Lowe]

Speaking of 60i for slow motion thats what they used in this test. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACVZp-UMD0Y

Really impressive, though I would like to see it at full HD res. Also, do you know if he deinterlaced the footage before slowing it down?

[pat@hpnc.com]

Hmm not sure but I think he might mention it in one of the threads. I also found a thread on it some place else when looking for HV20 footage. One of the DV sites I think. Probobly if you do a search for the name of the short and HV20 you can find it.