EOS 5DmkII users rejoice!

[Robert Frank]

Manual exposure control coming soon via official Canon firmware!

http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=MultiMiscPageAct&key=EOS_5DMKII_Firmware&fcategoryid=139&WT.mc_id=EM0905EO04001&Lead.FirstName=Robert&LTYP=FRIENDS&CollateralRequest.CollateralRequestID=7866CR100000 4743&Lead.Email=robertfrankstudio%40mac.com&cmpgn=eosn&LID=Lead.LeadID&Lead.LeadID=19864404

And not a moment too soon as I pondered the irony of being able to control (via Birger mount) my EOS lenses on my RED to shoot video but not on my 5DmkII.

[Chris Mierzwinski]

That is awesome news. They actually heard us cry. they let us cry about it for a few months but realized this has to stop.

[Thom Steinhoff]

Now if they could only allow removal the audio gain and allow different shutter speeds.

Here is a hacker who is working on the audio problem who has hacked the firmware...

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=30853

I'm sure he'll be able to re-hack the new firmware to give audio control as well.

[Robert Frank]

Now if they could only allow removal the audio gain and allow different shutter speeds.

Yup, with 24fps this thing would stay sold out for some time.

[Robert Frank]

Now if they could only allow removal the audio gain and allow different shutter speeds.

Here is a hacker who is working on the audio problem who has hacked the firmware...

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=30853

I'm sure he'll be able to re-hack the new firmware to give audio control as well.

What are people using to get sound into it? I have a bunch of Beachtek interface boxes from my old VX1000 days laying around that I think I'll try.

BTW, just sent my 5d2 back to Canon for service after less than 1k exposures for ERR 20... should have it back in a few weeks, just in time for the firmware update.

[Kholi Hicks]

Now if they could only allow removal the audio gain and allow different shutter speeds.

Here is a hacker who is working on the audio problem who has hacked the firmware...

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=30853

I'm sure he'll be able to re-hack the new firmware to give audio control as well.

Looks like full manual to me. Three bullet points outlining Aperture, ISO and Shutter control.

About to grab a body myself to go along with my GH-1's.

[Tom Lowe]

Yes!!!!

:happyhappy: :cheers2:

:party:

I guess I can stop buying Nikon lenses now... :sifone:

[Antonio Junior]

Right on!

But why the hell did it take them so long?

[Shawn Nelson]

I guess I can stop buying Nikon lenses now... :sifone:

And thats exactly why they did it :)

My prediction is that 24p is never coming for this cam, that'll get everyone to buy another body

[Tom Lowe]

And thats exactly why they did it :)

My prediction is that 24p is never coming for this cam, that'll get everyone to buy another body

I think 24p will come. Rumor today is that the 60D will have 24p, so I think they would have to match that with a firmware update.

[Kholi Hicks]

I dunno. 24P might be right around the corner. I do know someone that told me June specifically, but I didn't believe them at all. I should have.

might have to ask them what else they've heard.

Either way, nice.

[Scott C.]

Want a variety of frame rates and codecs with the 5dmk2? Look at the AJA Ki. (http://www.aja.com/products/ki-pro/) I have high hopes for it.

[Kholi Hicks]

Doesn't output the right image for an Aja Ki via HDMI.

But Hudson's still on the MKii firmware "adjusting".

Honestly, it would be incredible if he turned his attentions unto that facet. Live Fulltime HDMI output.

[michael zaletel]

Isn't the functional shutter speed on the 5D2 fixed or maxed-out at something like 1/27th? How can you really have full manual control if you can't go faster than 1/27th or are they saying the shutter speed limitation was firmware not hardware?

-michael zaletel
(shooter)

[Matt Gottshalk]

http://prolost.com/storage/post-images/5dmark2vid.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=12433888 01596

Ouch.

[sander kamp]

Is that a serious ad? An 'EPIC' begins with...?

[David Doko]

It's for real. As to it's intent? Copywriters do nothing but sit around all day thinking up these things so...

[P Andersson]

Mepic?

[Shawn Nelson]

Full manual iso, shutter and aperture is pretty intense. Even with the 30p, this is huge. If 60D has 1080p, 24p and this manual and it's only <$1500, sheesh, that could take a big bite out of Scarlet sales

[Steve Sherrick]

Full manual iso, shutter and aperture is pretty intense. Even with the 30p, this is huge. If 60D has 1080p, 24p and this manual and it's only <$1500, sheesh, that could take a big bite out of Scarlet sales

I'm not sure. They'll have to fix some of the issues with rolling shutter, Read/reset times, etc on the Canons. I've seen nice stuff from the 5D but I expect a lot more from the Scarlet, a lot more.

[sander kamp]

I think RED better come with an answer to this because Canon is obviously challenging them. And it better be a real shipping product this time.

[Paul Rosckes]

Full manual iso, shutter and aperture is pretty intense. Even with the 30p, this is huge. If 60D has 1080p, 24p and this manual and it's only <$1500, sheesh, that could take a big bite out of Scarlet sales

Let's not forget REDCODE RAW, higher resolutions, and higher framerates. This camera will probably always use H.264, always limit recording to 1080/30p, and it applies a pretty harsh matrix prior to encoding. I agree that it may impact sales for the novices, but professionals will definitely know that paying more for the features Scarlet offers will be worth every penny.

-Paul

[Shawn Nelson]

Let's not forget REDCODE RAW, higher resolutions, and higher framerates. This camera will probably always use H.264, always limit recording to 1080/30p, and it applies a pretty harsh matrix prior to encoding. I agree that it may impact sales for the novices, but professionals will definitely know that paying more for the features Scarlet offers will be worth every penny.

-Paul

I agree 100%, but Red needs to sell way more Scarlets than what the pros will buy

[Shawn Nelson]

FWIW. I'm "in Red's corner" all the way, just noticing that this is getting really interesting.

[Jason Ramsey]

good news for owners of that camera...

but, personally, I don't see it as "getting interesting" concerning a vs. red thing...

The similarities pretty much end at the ability to capture both stills and motion.

My 'pinion anyways.

hardly worth redrawing thee plans for Scarlet in my opinion.....

Just.... about time :)

later,
jason

[Scott C.]

Doesn't output the right image for an Aja Ki via HDMI.

But Hudson's still on the MKii firmware "adjusting".

Honestly, it would be incredible if he turned his attentions unto that facet. Live Fulltime HDMI output.

So live view isn't a full on video tap via hdmi... hobbled = lame.

[sander kamp]

I think the big thing is that Canon is now saying they are willing to sacrifice some of their own video camera market share in order to compete with RED. That is what the 5D II will be competing with and not the Scarlet because the Scarlet is not a real shipping product.

But when Scarlet is released Canon could just come out with a camera that has features equal or better than Scarlet and a camera like that with amazing low light performance that takes cheap lenses..

[Tom Lowe]

The real downsides to these DSLRs are artifacts from line skipping, lack of overcranking, and lack of RAW.

[Shawn Nelson]

so this will be interesting to see how Red plays. They've already told us that the only news we have is "two steps behind". So, did they up the specs to make it really stand apart or lower the price to narrow the gap?

The thing is, this is where Canon is *today*, where will they be in 6 months, a year? What about when Nikon leapfrogs them as they do in this perpetual game? And then, when does Scarlet actually ship?

[Joseph Ward]

I really don't think anyone will have the same specs for cameras once the new Red cameras come out. It will take them long, not because of lack of resources but lack of...fill in the blank

[Shawn Nelson]

The thing is, even at existing prices/specs, Scarlet wins hands down. I know this. But Scarlet needs to sell an absolute ton of units to justify even the existing price point

[Joseph Ward]

I see what you mean. I think Red has to be aggressive in marketing to educate and make people aware of there new cameras near release. The other companies use commercials with movie stars, Red so far goes another direction. To capture more buyers, at least for the Scarlets, I think they should also(with what they already do, marketing) go head on with with the other companies in their advertising campaign.

[Jason Ramsey]

But Scarlet needs to sell an absolute ton of units to justify even the existing price point

What's wrong with the price point?

[Scott Webster]

http://prolost.com/storage/post-images/5dmark2vid.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=12433888 01596

Ouch.

Someone at Canon has a sense of humour.

[Tom Lowe]

http://prolost.com/storage/post-images/5dmark2vid.jpg

I wonder if Jim is fuming or LOLing at this pic?

[Joseph Ward]

Laughing or Yawning. lol:Yawn:

[Steve Sherrick]

I see what you mean. I think Red has to be aggressive in marketing to educate and make people aware of there new cameras near release. The other companies use commercials with movie stars, Red so far goes another direction. To capture more buyers, at least for the Scarlets, I think they should also(with what they already do, marketing) go head on with with the other companies in their advertising campaign.

Everyone I talk to seems to know about Scarlet, even the casual hobby filmmakers/videographers. RED has created an amazing amount of marketing through word of mouth and of REDUSER. In fact, I've spoken with local camera stores who are really hoping that RED chooses to go with resellers because they have people coming in and asking about it.

Now, certainly Canon and Nikon have fantastic reputations and a loyal fan base as well but in my opinion the ball is still in Red's court. If Scarlet delivers professional video results as well as high end digital stills and at a price point that most are used to paying in the sub 10K range, I think they are going to sell a lot of these. In fact, some of the non video people I know who own nice cameras like the HVX200 for taking home movies of their kids (because they have expendable income and can) will probably have a look at Scarlet as well. If Scarlet is in retail camera shops, they should sell a lot of these.

Time will tell what each of the manufacturers do, but my money is still on Red until I see a real attempt by the others to directly compete. If Nikon comes out with a camera that exceeds Scarlet's specs and the results are amazing I will look at it as an option, especially because I own Nikon glass. So, I'm not just seeing RED tunnel vision, although I like RED as a company a lot and I do tend to stay loyal if it makes business sense. I just think RED got a big jump start and the others will continue to play catchup for a little while.

[Joseph Ward]

For people who are looking into dslrs, I don't know about that. You will be surprised about how many people still don't know Red, or think of them out of there reach. I am sure if Red sells them everywhere then yes for everything you said but only time will tell. Believe me, I'm not doubting Red, just pointing out a fact that most regular everyday average people haven't heard of them as they do with the other brands. :)

[Shawn Nelson]

What's wrong with the price point?

nothing, I'm stating that the existing price point is awesome. So awesome, that I think Jim is basing it on selling a ton of units

[Steve Sherrick]

For people who are looking into dslrs, I don't know about that. You will be surprised about how many people still don't know Red, or think of them out of there reach. I am sure if Red sells them everywhere then yes for everything you said but only time will tell. Believe me, I'm not doubting Red, just pointing out a fact that most regular everyday average people haven't heard of them as they do with the other brands. :)
Fair enough, you might be right.

The other thing to consider though is we don't know yet what RED's marketing approach will be. Let's face it, they have all of the production tools at their disposal to shoot some kick ass commercials if they wanted to. Just depends on how much they might want to spend in airtime. Imagine a commercial for the Scarlet during the Super Bowl. Now that would be cool. One thing we know, expect the unexpected.

[Phil Jordan]

I borrowed one and shot it for a day hoping it would be great but all I found was FPN in the video mode, line skipping artifacts, skew, and limited grading options with 8 bit h.264. 30 fps was not good too.

[Isaac Brody]

I've seen some good and mediocre footage from this camera. However, I think the average viewer is much more forgiving then we are and doesn't care or is even aware of these issues. With manual control this just became a much more attractive option.

Red's strength is still in its codec but there is something appealing about having a camera that is ready to shoot without the need of expensive accessories. Convenience is important and I wouldn't be surprised if the Scarlet crowd is thinking of the 2/3 ready to shoot Scarlet as yesterday's news when there's interchangeable lens options available for much less.

[Steve Sherrick]

I borrowed one and shot it for a day hoping it would be great but all I found was FPN in the video mode, line skipping artifacts, skew, and limited grading options with 8 bit h.264. 30 fps was not good too.

Which is why if they really want to compete directly, they will have to make some decisions internally about what they are willing to give up in their other camera markets to bring price, feature set, and wow factor in line with what Scarlet will most likely deliver. Will they be willing to give you RAW, 24P, 1080P (Minimum), low light performance and professional tactile controls with a smart codec for similar price to Scarlet? I'm not sure. Maybe.

[Kholi Hicks]

I'm with Shawneous, man. Not going to go into a tirade about why, but the writing is all over the wall.

I'll take a Scarlet if it's S35, does 2K and Costs 4K for a body with a battery that I can strap my Contax Zeiss lenses to immediately. Doesn't have to have audio, doesn't have to do anything but record to CF Cards.

=T

[Taylor Holland]

Personally, I think those who need a camera now (like me) will buy the 5D mk II, because it is available now, for projects that need to happen now. Those who can wait - I envy you, because it will probably be another 12 months till i can justify the Scarlet. I think for a lot of folks it will boil down to time line (in terms of availability).

[Jason Ramsey]

Word of mouth is a very powerful marketing tool. From nothing to where they are now, RED has come very far in a short time in a very competitive industry.

On the one hand, you have massive budgets and big marketing campaigns, with national commercials, etc... And, stock answers to emails, and the same crappy customer no-service (relatively speaking) that you get with most of these big companies.

On the other, you have daily and direct access to the heads of the company, products that are created as a direct result of those communications, improvements constantly being made, etc.... Overall a much more "intimate" (for lack of a better word) experience for the end user, and products created specifically for their needs and wishes. Big budget films now being shot, notable industry professionals giving positive feedback from their experiences with RED, etc, etc...

While it may not have the immediate impact, my opinion is that if they sell something worth a shit, the impact from the latter will be much more lasting, and further inroads into other more prosumer and consumer based markets will be made as a result.

You can't drop RAW on the consumer and expect immediate mass adoption anyways... Other things have to catch up as well... I think the pacing and the timing (though some would disagree with me) of the DSMC system and RED in general (keeping in mind we don't know what the final product will be) are just about perfect. Folks are being exposed to vaguely similar products that are hitting the marketplace, other technology is catching up and gradually making the workflow more accessible to the masses. RED has very low overhead compared to these other companies and is offering highly competitive products at a fraction of the cost.

If anything, I see these canon's and nikon's as a bridge for consumers who might not have otherwise thought to purchase a Scarlet or whatever.

Realistically, I just don't see the comparison. One is a great still camera. the other is a cine camera. If you want a great still camera that can shoot usable video, then the Canon might be for you. If you want a top notch Cine camera that nothing in its price range can touch when it comes to motion, and robustness of your footage, that can also shoot stills (to what level of comparison to DSLR we don't yet know), then a canon, or a d90, or a gh1 is nothing more than a "hold-me-over"...

My opinion anyways :)

Personally, I hope that that poster invites little more than a yawn...

I believe there are far more relevant hurdles to obtaining mass adoption of the DSMC systems (if that is the goal) than whatever canon or nikon has out today in terms of VDSLR's.... I'm not discounting them by any means. Competition is certainly and important and vital factor to consider. Just saying... other hurdles

later,
Jason

[Kholi Hicks]

Great points, Jason. Hopefully it won't be a too little too late deal.

On the "hold-me-over" thing, well I guess every camera is just that: hold you over til the next release.

In fact, just about everything we do is to tide us over to the next point in life. Which is why it's good to focus on the now and not the later.

I suppose right NOW, Scarlet is fiction and the MKii and Gh-1 are non-fictional tools to get the job done now.

When/if Scarlet is released, then we have a different narrative.

By the way: I support people waiting for cameras to come out before they jump into the pot. Whatever makes one happy! I think those who need to shoot now and actually have something to shoot will know what time it is after Canon's release. Time to get out there and do it.

[Phil Jordan]

By the time Canon gets to where we can use a 5D as a real pro tool, meaning like a RED, they will have gotten us to purchase MKII, MKIII, MKIV and MKV. How much does that cost? One Scarlet FF35?

[Kholi Hicks]

By the time Canon gets to where we can use a 5D as a real pro tool, meaning like a RED, they will have gotten us to purchase MKII, MKIII, MKIV and MKV. How much does that cost? One Scarlet FF35?

How much will you have shot, learned, loved?

[Jason Ramsey]

How much will you have shot, learned, loved?

Don't need a new camera every 3 months to do that :)

later,
jason

[Patrick Tresch]

No words for 25P?


Pat

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Don't need a new camera every 3 months to do that :)

later,
jason

Hell I haven't bought a new camera in 10 years. And it's older than I am. Just processed 3 rolls this afternoon.

[Laco Zamba]

5D is very good for future Scarlet users because it pushes on RED to make Scarlet really good and competitive.

[PaulD]

Did anyone else note the phrase in the poster on Canon's site. It reads: A "EPIC" begins with M (referring to manual). Interesting choice of words :)

I'm picking up a 5DMKII tommorrow. I ordered a few weeks ago as I need it as a backup for a few photo shoots.

At the end of the day it's another tool as many have pointed out.
I know its has limitations - I see them in vimeo samples daily. I shoot with EX1's for video at the moment. Good cam but again limited.

Having worked with RAW photos for 5 years+ in C1 I have a very tough time accepting anything pre-processed. It's just wrong. While I have never worked with with RAW video - I can see the results - simply awesome. Once you go raw you never go back.

Anxiously waiting for Scarlet - I know its going to be big!

Cheers
Paul

[Yannick Hagman]

Japanese companies often think two steps ahead I said.. and I kept right. However, this is a reaction to the GH1 and not Red.

[Laco Zamba]

Japanese companies often think two steps ahead I said.. and I kept right. However, this is a reaction to the GH1 and not Red.

And GH1 was reaction to 5D :-)

[Kholi Hicks]

You guys are strange sometimes. LoL

Like the GH-1 wasn't already in production before the 5D came out. Come on, now.

These aren't reactions to anything, just the way the market was set to head from the get-go as technology advanced.

If anything, Canon's announcement was to stop people from purchasing Nikons lenses.

[Yannick Hagman]

:)
The story went like this:
Canon's industry moles (mostly recruited from the world famous Watanabe-clan) discovered that Nikon is expanding it's liveview with recording capabilities. That was just the moment when Canon's Chief of marketing Masamitsu Ito had to hurt his competitors badly and was forced to develop a kick ass marketing campain for the 5D MII for General Manager Fukashi Takashi in order to not loose his middle finger and the forefinger of his son Bruce Ito who studied law in California. Masamitsu screwed it up because he was too greedy. However, Canon's management team didn't find his son on time, because he was involved in a special brand name case at the moment with a digital camera manufacturer from Las Vegas. It didn't take long until Masamitsu Ito had to absorb a loss. His only son "Blues Ito" has been beaten to death by an agressive dog called Oakley. The Las Vegas Police stated that only his forefinger was left of him. Masamitsu Ito sweared outraged and by the life of his wife to distroy this american company and designed a provocative internet banner to frighten them and their customers. And if you look closely he is still wearing two forefingers on his right hand.

[Eren Ozkural]

F*&%ing Nikon....they better hurry the hell up. The 720p on my D90 is bad enough, some manual control would be pretty nice as an apology right about now.

[Scholastique]

PROFESSIONAL CANON CAMCORDER WITH 5D MARKII SENSOR

A professional Canon Camcorder with 5D MarkII Sensor is announced for the end of this year. Confidential, not official...

So the race is on :

On the finish line, real availability on the market, and price, who will be the winner ???

- Scarlett ?

- Canon XXL ?


I will become a bookmaker here !


http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/cab2d0bf3a.jpg

[Zaphod]

The coolest thing about this firmware upgrade is that it appears that Canon is actually listening to it's clients.

Can't wait to get my hands on this firmware.

[RedFaced]

God, any mention of a Canon is bound to be frowned open on these boards. Not going to mention names but why on earth people can't give credit when credits due is beyond me.

Things like line skipping, skew, limited grading and god knows what else, are thing your average Joe soap don't give two craps about. And as for the "I've seen good and mediocre footage" comment, Isaac would you mind sharing your definition of good and mediocre footage ?. No offense but I don't think you have looked hard enough, there are a few clips that easily compare to RED ONE.

These aditions will make this a formidable tool, end of story. And lets be honest one clip of some lizard lying is not going to sell systems.

[Albert Armes]

As much as a good image is down to lighting and direction, not the camera, it is important that the camera performs well. All the nice looking 5D2 movies have been with shallow DOF, for which it is best at with it's large sensor. Because of the current automatics, that means low light too, to get the camera to open up the lens aperture fullly. In brighter scenes, you see what is wrong with the camera - edge sharpness, video looking colors, aliasing. I can't help but think that allowing manual operation will only allow you to see the 5D2 at it's worst, not it's best.

Albert

[Joel Kaye]

I agree that it may impact sales for the novices

Novices buy 20,000 cameras a month. Pros don't. I'm sure Jim knows that... he already owns almost as much of the the pro market as he's likely to get with RED One.

(edit - there is the prosumer market too - wedding, corporate work etc. I wonder if the EX1 is the camera they need due to the very fast workflow. I'm not sure they are switching up for a Scarlet, but maybe.)

If the 60D does 24P that might be my next camera. Potentially great for B roll and adding a second camera to conversation scenes. I could shoot wider and locked off with it. Also, you could steal shots in public places with a camera like that... not so with a RED rig.

RED will need a $3200 Camera that blows the 60D away (which will have interchangeable lenses - I've proven to myself that Canon glass is well up to the task of moviemaking).

$3-$4K seems to be the magic number going back to the Sony VX1000.

[Tom Lowe]

:)
The story went like this:
Canon's industry moles (mostly recruited from the world famous Watanabe-clan) discovered that Nikon is expanding it's liveview with recording capabilities. That was just the moment when Canon's Chief of marketing Masamitsu Ito had to hurt his competitors badly and was forced to develop a kick ass marketing campain for the 5D MII for General Manager Fukashi Takashi in order to not loose his middle finger and the forefinger of his son Bruce Ito who studied law in California. Masamitsu screwed it up because he was too greedy. However, Canon's management team didn't find his son on time, because he was involved in a special brand name case at the moment with a digital camera manufacturer from Las Vegas. It didn't take long until Masamitsu Ito had to absorb a loss. His only son "Blues Ito" has been beaten to death by an agressive dog called Oakley. The Las Vegas Police stated that only his forefinger was left of him. Masamitsu Ito sweared outraged and by the life of his wife to distroy this american company and designed a provocative internet banner to frighten them and their customers. And if you look closely he is still wearing two forefingers on his right hand.

hahhaha. :smilielol5:


Novices buy 20,000 cameras a month. Pros don't. I'm sure Jim knows that... he already owns almost as much of the the pro market as he's likely to get with RED One.


Epic can own a much, much larger chunk of high-end, cinema market than R1. Jim is building Epic as a no-holds-barred cinema camera that will compete more directly with Genesis, F35, Arri D-21, and film cameras. In fact, Epic should be heads and shoulders above all other cameras, making it a first choice for many DPs, directors and producers.

[Joel Kaye]

hahhaha. :smilielol5:
Epic can own a much, much larger chunk of high-end, cinema market than R1.

How big is that market? 5000 cameras and RED already has 4000 units out there? The F-900 sold less than 2000 units in it's entire life. Meanwhile, JVC claims they sold 12000 eng style HD-100s in the first year. The ENG market is much bigger than high end film market.

You're right that a lot of RED owners may upgrade to EPIC and I'm not saying "don't make EPIC".

What I'm really saying is Canon and Nikon have literally millions of cameras and lenses out there. How many Sony video cameras are out there? Must be many millions.

RED is a long way from playing in that game from what I can see. My camera still has a playback bug. You think Canon's going to release a camera that doesn't play back every 3rd clip? RED is a hero niche camera company... but man, mainstream retail? I'm skeptical. It'll be years, and that's IF Canon, Sony and Nikon don't wake up. Those guys have complete and total retail support worldwide.

RED with Scarlet is just playing a different game right now. It's the game of trying to sell the very avid enthusiast semi-pro early adopter. They appeal to the rebel in all of us... but we are a niche crowd.

[Tom Lowe]

Joel, I think one of the main ideas behind Epic is to dominate actual cinema productions -- TVCs, TV shows, music vids, but especially feature films. That market will be wide open to Epic if it comes through as promised. Part of this delay from Red is probably trying to double- and triple-check everything, so they can put out a finished camera that is ready to dominate cinema productions from Day 1.

I'm not talking about the 4,000 people who bought R1 (I assume many will upgrade). I'm talking about the next Michael Bay movie. I'm talking about Epic being THE go-to camera for major productions. It's a small market, but the prestige factor is through the roof.

In terms of volume, I think the 2/3 will sell like hotcakes, mainly due to overcranking ability -- something all these DSLRs sorely lack.

[Joel Kaye]

Joel, I think one of the main ideas behind Epic is to dominate actual cinema productions ...
In terms of volume, I think the 2/3 will sell like hotcakes, mainly due to overcranking ability -- something all these DSLRs sorely lack.

I think we agree about EPIC's potential... but down at the music video and tv commercial level I think we'll see much less expensive 35mm DOF cameras dominate in a few years. One area of huge market growth should be corporate video on the Internet. What camera will shoot that stuff? Probably ones that cost a few thousand dollars.

How much do you think most people are willing to pay for overcranking? I'm not sure they are willing to pay an extra $3k on a $3k camera. A lot of DVX's sold with no overcranking.

First company with a real $3K camera that can shoot a 35mm movie, get good audio and has a friendly post solution wins.

RED's post still completely blows in comparison to something like the EX1 (for fast turnaround with nice quality).

[Tom Lowe]

I personally think overcranking is a huge, very underestimated factor in all of this. This is why I'm constantly harping about overcranking on this forum. Overcranking will be THE factor in my decision to go with FF35 Scarlet or to wait for something else, maybe Canon's rumored 4K RAW 60fps camera. Then again, the 2/3 fixed is always an option for the $5,000 crowd.

Another thing to keep in mind, for larger cinema productions, is that Epic very squarely aimed at replacing film! That's huge. If Epic replaces much of film production, that is a substantial market.

[Phil Jordan]

How much will you have shot, learned, loved?

I tested for a whole day and learned to love the stills ability but found the video unuseable for the reasons I mentioned. I shot next to my R1 and there is no comparison. It is not close.

[Joel Kaye]

I personally think overcranking is a huge, very underestimated factor in all of this. This is why I'm constantly harping about overcranking on this forum.

Another thing to keep in mind, for larger cinema productions, is that Epic very squarely aimed at replacing film! That's huge. If Epic replaces much of film production, that is a substantial market.

Based on your key points it appears we agree. RED is after niches. Which is fine.

Time will tell, but I don't think the vast majority or prosumers will pay much for overcranking. It's just not used in 99% of normal low budget production of normal little things. I think people would probably pony up an extra grand maybe. Even then, that's $1000 of lights or lenses they could have purchased. Would they rather have $1k in accessories or some slow motion if they have to choose? I'm skeptical high frame rates are worth a ton of money.

When a million units of a camera capable of making 35mm movies sells it'll be one of the majors doing to the selling. I'm betting they all are sitting on the chip technology and could deploy in 6 months if they wanted to. Sony's got post figured out pretty well. Owning Vegas can't hurt them. They could include Sony Vegas LE with every camera. I usually just shoot but over the past month I posted 8 little RED shorts I shot. I've had to work through a fair amount of little weirdness. I don't think consumers are going to handle that very well.

I also don't believe the film camera sales market is that big. How many 35mm film movies are shot a year? A few hundred? And many of those share the same cameras almost all owned by the rental houses. Those rental houses already own RED's too. How many film cameras are purchased every year? Or all the same old ones maintained?


Meanwhile, 6,000 features will be shot this year. Digital already owns indie movies.

[tfg]

I disagree with many of you folks here ... I think this firmware update has potential to etch into Scarlet sales. I've been waiting to buy a Scarlet for more than a year now and I'm growing tired of waiting. I know that there are plenty of perks to the Scarlet that need not be mentioned, but at the utter-most basic level I just want my 35mm DOF with a half decent codec. 5DM2 delivers on these most basic elements and price is right. Whether that makes it worth the purchase is debatable, but to think that this camera is not in the same playing field is being naive.

[enrique]

I just took the plunge and started price shopping (I hate/love ebay) for a 5D MarkII now that some improvements are made and the firmware is on its way to be hacked/expanded.

I'm not a professional (anymore), nor do I think I'll ever will. All I want is to shoot hollidays, family, landscapes, scuba, etc. Thought the Scarlet could be the best thing for the price, but now think the 5DMKII is a better choice for me.

But if I ever have to shoot something at a professional level, I would no doubts take a look at RED's offerings again.

I love the RED company and in case it helps them, these are the things that would've stopped me from buying a 5D and wait for a Scarlet:

-A timeframe announcement. RED is some 3-5 months away from the first indications the Scarlett would ship and they are still not updating in its status. To me, a non-professional, that means it's either late or they don't know if it's going to be late. If they knew it would be out on time, I hope they wouldn't be so awkward as to not tell us for no reason that the camera will likely be on the shelves in X/X+2 months.

-A sweeter price point. $3700 is in the upper limit of my budget for my hobby. I much rather have a "full package" (viewer, a bit of flash memory, battery, zoom lens) for around $3k-$3500. And it's non removable lens at that price point.

-A larger sensor with highly available (and inexpensive) lenses and great low light performance. You can never get enough of this, of course, and I like the 5D in this department.

I gather the 5D has too much rolling shutter and aliasing from line skipping and offers burned-in AVC instead of RAW. Did I mention I am not a professional but an aficionado looking to shoot holidays? To me, shooting straight to AVC is almost an advantage. I can take the memory card around and play it back, burn it to a DVD-r disc, etc, almost w/o touching a computer. Eventually, AVC will be a more universal format. With a Scarlet, I would need a computer to grade and recompress from the Redcode to something I can actually watch and share.

Is the 5D perfect? Hell no. I would want it to have better HDMI support, automatic spill over the 4GB file limit (loosing a frame or two is fine with me, as a non-pro), less rolling shutter/skew, less aliasing, more frame rates, more manual controls, digital zoom (i.e. by not skipping over lines but cropping the sensor's central area), zooming-focus-assist, zebras, etc, etc, etc. I guess I would be happy with a Canon 8D Mark III 3 years down the road :D

I find the Scarlet, for non-professionals, may be too little (no large sensor and difficult lens choice), too late (who knows when it's coming out and what cameras Canon/Nikon/Sony/Panasonic will have then), too "inconvinient" (no-point-and-shoot-and-playback mode in a small form factor, i.e. no AVC option if you are not planning on editing) and too expensive (but just by a couple hundred $$$).

Again, all this, IMHO for non-professional use.

But if I ever wear my a/v professional hat again in the future, then I'm sure RED products would be on the top of my list and I want to thank them for making the market closer to what it should be: full of wonderful choices instead of artificially highly constrained machines only made to force the need to upgrade.

[Yannick Hagman]

Red should focus on Epic.

[David Doko]

It's been surprising to me how quickly people have adopted VDSLR's for the projects they want to do right now, and how they are willing to put up with the limitations for the sake of cinematic DOF.

[Tom Lowe]

It's been surprising to me how quickly people have adopted VDSLR's for the projects they want to do right now, and how they are willing to put up with the limitations for the sake of cinematic DOF.

It's not surprising to me at all. There has been a huge, gaping hole in the market for at least 5 years now. All people want is a 35mm sensor with at least 1080p. The only surprise to me is that it has taken this long for Canon to wake up. Their marketing team has been asleep at the wheel for over half a decade.

The other big hole in the market that is very, very clear, at least to me, is lack of overcranking in 1080p cameras, like the EX3. It completely baffles my mind that no camera company has stepped up to the plate with a 35mm 1080p 60fps prosumer camera. Whoever does it first will sell cameras like hotcakes.

[Isaac Brody]

Things like line skipping, skew, limited grading and god knows what else, are thing your average Joe soap don't give two craps about. And as for the "I've seen good and mediocre footage" comment, Isaac would you mind sharing your definition of good and mediocre footage ?. No offense but I don't think you have looked hard enough, there are a few clips that easily compare to RED ONE.


Did you read the rest of my post, because you basically repeated my point almost verbatim?


However, I think the average viewer is much more forgiving then we are and doesn't care or is even aware of these issues. With manual control this just became a much more attractive option.

And when I say mediocre I'm referring to the tons of amateur out of focus shots floating around on vimeo. Focusing on the fly with a full frame sensor is not easy.

[Stefan Christou]

I have to chip in here.

Look I've been waiting for Scarlet for a long time. I have a camera so I already have an in-between camera and I'm good to wait. The thing is that FF35 and even S35 Scarlet really excite me because I'm expecting to be able to use it for professional photography as well as pro video work.

It's going a big advantage at ringside or lakeside or curbside outside a celeb hotspot or wherever, because more important in photojournalism than depth of field or even DR, is getting the shot. And 30fps makes a big difference compared to 12.

And for shooting documentaries the thing that people who watch them care about is story telling above all else and then clarity of image, depth of field comes last. 2/3 Scarlet will be perfect for this – perhaps using S/FF35 for staged interviews and 2/3 for the rest.

I can't see any canon offerings that can do the same at the Scarlet price points.

[Tom Lowe]

The 5D2 is absolutely perfect for documentary filmmaking and interviews. It's really a dream come true for that application. Setup takes about 1 minute, the image is extremely clear and the DOF is beautiful. Right now you really need an external audio device, though, and sync can be an issue.

When I am out shooting, I can jump out of my car and have my 5D2 shot set up and the camera rolling in under 60 seconds! Maybe another minute or two if I want audio -- using the zoom H4n.

Another great advantage, as others have pointed out, is that the camera is very inconspicuous, so you can shoot in public places without anyone even knowing you are shooting video. Most people assume you are shooting stills. Plus, the battery life and record times on the 5D2 are stunning. I can shoot all day with a pocket full of cheap 32GB CF cards and walnut-sized batteries.

[David Swan]

30p may be hardwired into this particular Digic IV implementation. But maybe not.....

[Zack Birlew]

I don't know how to feel about all of this. On one hand, I want to sell my two D90's and put the money towards a 5D Mark II and on the other hand, I want to just sit and wait for RED/Panasonic/Nikon's response.

The GH1 has failed me already, after seeing and hearing all of the issues and letdowns with the camera, I just don't want one. I would have loved to have been able to use Leica M lenses with 1080P video but that will have to wait.

As it stands now, I don't know how I feel about Scarlet. It's obviously going to be the best camera in that price range but I can't sit and wait for it like I did with the RED One, which ended up fizzling anyway becaus of film school. If RED can release the Scarlet on time then that would be the end of it, however, it's just looking more and more like we're going to have to wait even longer.

I would hope that Nikon would stick with 24p and bump up to 1080P in full frame. If they released a manual control firmware update for the D90, that'd be great, especially if they tossed in a quality control menu (Low, Med, High, High+, etc.) so you could basically set the bitrate. If not, the next camera has to at least match the 5D Mark II in features and performance, all the while maintaining 24p. However, the price has to be there, they can't pull another D3x debacle.

Now, I like the image quality of the 5D Mark II, just like practically everyone else, and I LOVE that it looks like a DSLR and nobody will ask too many questions. My D90 has helped me get guerilla shots in places that I would normally be barred from filming in. Fantastic! However, the 30p thing still ticks me off to no end. Just add in 24p, I'll even take a pulldown scenario at this point. I like that I'll be able to use all of my Nikon glass as well with the various Nikon mount options. Granted, I'll loose the lens mount flexibility of the GH1, but the image more than makes up for it.

Thankfully, I don't need anything right now. I'd like to have stuff, but I don't need it. School just got out last week and I'm going to be doing a lot of writing. Things are getting pretty interesting right now, I will say that.

[Rick Darge]

This is why I want one...



The 5D2 is absolutely perfect for documentary filmmaking and interviews. It's really a dream come true for that application. Setup takes about 1 minute, the image is extremely clear and the DOF is beautiful. Right now you really need an external audio device, though, and sync can be an issue.

When I am out shooting, I can jump out of my car and have my 5D2 shot set up and the camera rolling in under 60 seconds! Maybe another minute or two if I want audio -- using the zoom H4n.

Another great advantage, as others have pointed out, is that the camera is very inconspicuous, so you can shoot in public places without anyone even knowing you are shooting video. Most people assume you are shooting stills. Plus, the battery life and record times on the 5D2 are stunning. I can shoot all day with a pocket full of cheap 32GB CF cards and walnut-sized batteries.

[Patrick Tresch]

Scarlet is going to open a whole new market.

A lot of people who bought Z1 and EX1 will make the change to Scarlet. This camera is no longer adressed to dop's like RED ONE was, but will clearly be in the hands of a lot of directors willing to shoot their documentries or features.

And I, as a dop, will be very pleased to use another tool. :-)

RED (if I may...) should not only focus on Epic.

Patrick

[Yannick Hagman]

I'm not so sure about that. 60D will cost 1'500$ by offering about the same capabilities as Mark II (apart from the APS-C sensor). Around this time next year we probably will see RAW for 2k$ at 1080 if not sooner. Red probably can't compete with this price tag as long Jim doesn't jeopardize all his fortune. They can throw away their bodies while printing lens-money if they choose to. Red is a premium company like Apple. But the lower end products as scheduled are more or less there to sell you the higher goods afterwards. That's the idea behind all the modularity. I have my doubts if this lower end Scarlets will see the light of the day, if you look at the current rattle of the big three and the current economic climate. Most of us shoot with whatever we can afford. Of course there are a few DPs who will buy Scarlets. But that's not the big chunk. Director's don't care. Mark II is good enough to show if an idea works out. Hobbyists won't care. Photojournalists. No question what they will choose.. So where is the 2/3 heading exactly?

[Thom Steinhoff]

I'm not so sure about that. 60D will cost 1'500$ by offering about the same capabilities as Mark II (apart from the APS-C sensor). Around this time next year we probably will see RAW for 2k$ at 1080 if not sooner.

I'm not so sure about this. Still Raw vs. Motion ("Red") Raw is a very different thing. Red has put a lot of work into making a motion Raw work in a production pipeline, and I'm sure has protected the hell out of it with patents.

I don't think it is that easy of a lunch to eat--even for the big guys, technically or legally.

Don't underestimate what an achievement Red Raw is--it is game changing in so many ways--to think it will commoditize so quickly, I think, is a bit of a stretch.

I think the only way we'll see Raw for 2k$ next year is if Jim changes his mind on pricing scarlet.

[Craig Ryan]

It seems pretty clear to me. If you need a camera right now and don't mind the aforementioned issues, then go with the Canon. Like Tom pointed out, it is a dream come true for many shooters; if you shoot a lot of stills, and need 30p video do documentary style work, then the Canon is a clear winner. The low light performance is stunning. For documentary work where you have a lot of still shots (talking heads, landscapes, wildlife..etc...) this is a good option despite the skewing.

For independent cinema use at the lowest level however, I am not as sure. If I had to get a camera right now for cinema use, it probably wouldn't be the Canon. AS much as I like this camera and it's potential, the cons still outweigh the pros for cinema use. The trade off is clearly a large sensor size (DOF) and lens selection VS a prosumer video camera that is built for motion and audio, and doesn't have the limitations of the Canon. To me, I'd take the latter over the former, as I'd suspect most indie filmmakers would at this point.

This is why I think 2/3 Scarlet will be the best option if it comes out sooner than later. Its specs and price are hands down better than any prosumer cam on the market and forthcoming (0fficially, not rumored). Until the DSLRs get the skew and frame rate options sorted out, I just don't see them being used widely for motion work as much as prosumer cams that already dominate the market. The video mode still strikes me as simply a cool factor to have when you're shooting stills, but not as a camera I'd shoot a low budget movie on yet. :mellow:

[Tom Lowe]

Now that the 5D2 has manual controls, it should fine for low-end cinema work. The main thing you have to watch out for is moire patten and other artifacts caused by the line skipping. Aside from that, lack of overcranking, and perhaps the audio-sync issue, it should be suitable for most low-budget cine-style work.

[Shawn Nelson]

I really dont know why we get stuck in this "either/OR" game. As a current Red One owner, and future owner of EpicX and probably a few Scarlets, I'm still drooling over a 5dmk2 and would whip out the CC if they add 24p and still might without it. Why? Well let's see
-Awesome stills. Very important for loads of reasons, my current DSLR is a 20d.
-Portability, I could take this up a ski lift, I wouldnt do that with Red.
-Sneakiness, as Tom mentioned, you can renegade stuff with this cam.
-Water!! I'm no scuba diver, but I'd love to tumble in the rivers, I sure as hell wont do that with Red, but the 5dmk2? Full on housing for $1500 http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/597862-REG/Ikelite_6871_02_6871_02_eTTL_Housing_f_.html
-Timelapse, ever since Tom permanently ruined me with his video, I've been wanting to get some timelapse stuff. While I know Red can, this is far more portable and better at getting stars
-Low light.
-Use of my existing EF lens stockpile for cinema without the hassle of changing out a mount on my Red

[Steve Sherrick]

As a current Red One owner, and future owner of EpicX and probably a few Scarlets

Wow, a few Scarlets. Damn, you're going to have quite the arsenal there my friend.

[Shawn Nelson]

Wow, a few Scarlets. Damn, you're going to have quite the arsenal there my friend.

hehe, here's the ultimate plan. So I have Red and will soon be getting the RPPs, then EpicX when it ships. After that, somehow go knock over a few more banks and get the Scarlet S35. Then that way the Scarlet S35 becomes defacto "Backup Body" to the EpicX, giving me better rental and security of mind when I'm shooting my own stuff. Or, since the RPPs are 5 lenses, I could do dual cam on all my projects, slowly building a more complete 2-cam setup as money avails.

I have little to no interests in the FF lineup unless I suddenly have tons of money or an EpicX to Monstro upgrade path is revealed.

[Evan Meades]

bring it on...can't wait!

[Raul Gonzo]

It is great that Canon is finally getting to a point where they have to do this, but I can not buy one until I can move the camera around and the picture doesn't skew.
end of story.

[Rick Darge]

Just bought my Canon 5D!!! I love the size and weight and the fact that it is a dSLR so I can get by with all my sneaky shooting

[Steve Sherrick]

Just bought my Canon 5D!!! I love the size and weight and the fact that it is a dSLR so I can get by with all my sneaky shooting
Somehow I think your sneaky shooting will look a lot better than a lot of stuff out there. You got skilz!

[Rick Darge]

Haha thanks Steve! Going out tonight to play with it.. I'll see if I can post something..

[Matt Gottshalk]

Haha thanks Steve! Going out tonight to play with it.. I'll see if I can post something..

Tag for the footage. :)

[Robert Frank]

Check out this video: http://www.vimeo.com/4685373


For the record I don't think the 5DMKII has anywhere near the image quality that the RED One is capable of capturing but this is damn good looking stuff.

What I really see is the potential of the RED modular system to be everything I need/want in a camera.

I like the size of the 5D for staying low profile in certain situations and the ability to run a light weight rig for Steadicam type setups. Yet, the ability to grow an EPIC/SCARLET into many different configurations fulfills the original idea behind the RED One.

Give me an EPIC that has a FF35 sensor, Redcode Raw, ability to be configured for many shooting scenarios including using DSLR type lenses, a Red Rocket processor for post, Red Ray for delivery, RED's excellent customer service and the RedUser.net community and I'm happy. We're so close.

[Yannick Hagman]

On the other hand Mark II is available for 25 bucks a day here. Bad times to buy any digital camera.

[Benni Diez]

Now wake up, Nikon!!!

[Eren Ozkural]

Now wake up, Nikon!!!

Yes, Goddamnit, WAKE UP!

I know the firmware update was addressed by "someone who got a customer services e-mail" last month or so...where is it?

We have 24p, im happy. Im sure that you don't need magic pixies to eke out manual control over what the camera ALREADY does. Im not going to be optimistic and ask for a better bitrate or a capture process that doesn't include pixel binning, no. Just let me control iso and shutter angle please...

[PAUL STAMER]

Have anyone tested the Zacuto DSLR kit?

[caseyhayward]

The 5D2 is absolutely perfect for documentary filmmaking and interviews.


I feel neutral actually about scarlet vs. 5D II but I'd love to know what about a 12 min record limitation makes the 5D perfect for documentary interviews? This is one of the bigger sticking points for me along with audio when it comes to making docs with a DSLR.

[Tom Lowe]

casey, i am not experienced with shooting documentary interviews, but couldn't you just hit record again while interviewing? it takes like 1 second. you don't have to switch cards or anything. i guess the fear is that someone would be in the middle of talking when it stops? I can see that as a problem, you're right.

Canonrumors reporting today that 24p is on the way:


“The 5D MarkII will have 24p, it is already in a firmware running in testing. It was not released due to time but it was planned to be released with the manual control. This is not as easy as some people tend to believe. The codec data rate has 6 frames of spare bandwidth and the file size was still the same as the 30p in the cam I tested. They have to re-code the compression routine in order to run at full speed and not waste file size. This has introduced some problems in stability because the chip can only handle 30p natively and this is basically a hack. No Audio control planned or in the firmware as of yet.

This is listed as a rumor, though. Not confirmed.

[Stuart English]

...I'd love to know what about a 12 min record limitation makes the 5D perfect for documentary interviews? This is one of the bigger sticking points for me along with audio when it comes to making docs with a DSLR.

Agreed. A DLSR may be smaller, but 12 minutes is just plain daft.

With a 320GB drive, a single take on a RED ONE can be up to 3 hours - similar to (albeit much lower resolution) tape based camcorders.

[hunterrichards]

Nothing personal Stuart, but If someone needs a 3 hour take to eek out what they need in an interview, that person needs to try another line of work! ; )

[Ethan Cooper]

Nothing personal Stuart, but If someone needs a 3 hour take to eek out what they need in an interview, that person needs to try another line of work! ; )

Well that certainly helped the conversation along, thanks for your input.

[Steve Sherrick]

Nothing personal Stuart, but If someone needs a 3 hour take to eek out what they need in an interview, that person needs to try another line of work! ; )

Well, I've had 45 minute takes and the RED worked beautifully for that, even better than BetaSP days. :-)

12 minutes is limiting for a variety of reasons in documentary, although you could certainly work around it. I just like the ability to keep rolling when need be.

[Tom Lowe]

It's unlikely, but possible, that Canon or a hacker might be able to add a clip buffer and roll-over option to the 5D2, so it could basically keep recording for hours to a single 32GB x133 CF card, for example. It's basically the 4GB FAT32 that is preventing clips longer than 12min, I think, but I don't see anything that would prevent some type of spill over to keep the thing humming along.

[Isaac Brody]

If you think of it like shooting 400ft of film then it's not so bad. There was a time not too long ago when docs were shot on film. People managed to work around that limitation... :rolleyes:

[David Swan]

I think, and I may be wrong, that part of the reason for the 12 min limit was due to EU taxes on cameras vs camcorders.
Though since they saddled us with 30 fps rather than 25, I'm surprised they cared enough to notice.
David

[Yannick Hagman]

Like film pushing photographers to better pictures. :)

[Tom Lowe]

I don't think it has anything to do with Europe, although who knows for sure. I think it is simply hitting the 4GB wall of FAT32?

FAT32 sucks.

[Ethan Cooper]

Has there been a rapper named FAT32? If not there should be.

[Rick Darge]

I love this camera. I can start rolling in less than a second. 35mm DOF. Full Frame video recording, wow. My 17-35 vignettes at 17mm now.. Lightweight. Shoots to CF cards. Awesome 21 mega pixel imager. I've never owned a dSLR before so I am quite stoked on the possibilities. My production partner and I are making a doc about cyclists, so this is a perfect fit for us. We'll use Red for overcranking and beauty shots but this will be the work horse.. Can't wait for 24p

[Isaac Brody]

Rick, let's see some footage!

[Rick Darge]

I'll get a little sample up soon, hopefully later tonight! I'm going to be running around all day so don't have the time right now.

I just went out last night on the bicycle, shooting stuff in Santa Monica, mainly with the Peleng 8mm. Fun stuff..

[David Swan]

I think we have to decouple the FAT32 4 gig limit from the recording limit. Canon could easily have spanned recording over multiple clips.
Unless sensor overheating has something to do with it.
And yes, FAT32 sucks.
David

[Tom Lowe]

I love this camera. I can start rolling in less than a second. 35mm DOF. Full Frame video recording, wow. My 17-35 vignettes at 17mm now..

:smash: <--- Nikon 14-24G
:ack2: <--- EF 17-35

[Simon Blackledge]

I think, and I may be wrong, that part of the reason for the 12 min limit was due to EU taxes on cameras vs camcorders.
Though since they saddled us with 30 fps rather than 25, I'm surprised they cared enough to notice.
David

Correct. Limit set due to tax bracket according to Canon Rep. Anything over a certain limit in recording time and the unit is considered a video camera thus the tax code changes and people buying for just a dslr (imagine that!) pay more.

s

[Patrick Tresch]

Agreed. A DLSR may be smaller, but 12 minutes is just plain daft.


I remember a time not so far I had a producer asking for those 8 gig CF cards limitation... How long was it? 4 ridiculous minutes?:)

More than stopping the 5D to make another take. The 5D reacts strangely on long takes in hot environement. It seams it gets overheat (my interpretation) and makes the picture jump (like there where some frames dropped).

I interpreted this as an overheating problem because I shut down the cam for a while (5min.) and the problem dissapeared.

Patrick

WHERE IS 25P?

[Tom Lowe]

I'm probably going to be instantly banned for suggesting such a ludicrous sacrilege, but does anyone else think Reduser needs a Canon forum?? hahaha. :banned:

[Ethan Cooper]

The explosion of Canon chatter in this forum hearkens back to my old Grandpappy's saying, "a bird in the hand..."

[Shawn Nelson]

I'm probably going to be instantly banned for suggesting such a ludicrous sacrilege, but does anyone else think Reduser needs a Canon forum?? hahaha. :banned:

hmmm, as the third top poster ever on here (without ever owning a Red or...even shooting with one?) I think your purpose has now been made clear! :rofl:

[Shawn Nelson]

I would somehow post a picture of a dog, but I can't, it's your turn on that

[Tom Lowe]

Damn! My cover is blown. :couch:

Good thing my handlers at Canon HQ have promised me a safehouse in Tokyo with a Geisha....

[Steve Sherrick]

I'm probably going to be instantly banned for suggesting such a ludicrous sacrilege, but does anyone else think Reduser needs a Canon forum?? hahaha. :banned:

Banned
That is, if you decide to not speak your mind in an honest way. Having a Canon forum might be going a bit far on a RED forum, but speaking about what the competition is doing is not such a bad thing. Keeps everyone on their toes and makes for good conversation. Don't hold back man. I don't think anyone's going to hold it against you.

[Roberto B]

the dude was just kidding man.. #edit# as said.. his posts are getting better & better.. gang's type/class ehehehehehehe

[Craig Ryan]

Has the skew issue been fixed or lessened at all? There seems to be quite a lot of skewage going on in a lot of the stuff I've been checking out. This is a major turn off for me since I enjoy going handheld quite a bit. Can anyone post a link to some handheld, or fast panning footage that shows little skew?

I must admit, this is pretty cool:

http://www.vimeo.com/4041788

[Shawn Nelson]

I must admit, this is pretty cool:

http://www.vimeo.com/4041788

holy crap that is cool!!!

[Ariana]

What's up with the double images on some frames with the hands and strings?

I'm seeing this on alot 5D footage lately.

[Isaac Brody]

I thought this piece was excellent.

http://www.vimeo.com/2605789

[Kholi Hicks]

I thought this piece was excellent.

http://www.vimeo.com/2605789

By far the best clip, IMO, that I have seen from the MKii and it's completely responsible for putting me on a fence I shouldn't even be on.

I downloaded this clip and piped it out to my 46" LCD. And this is the compressed version. Wow.

One thing that's been annoying the crap out of me is the mass inability to white balance properly. This clip nails it big time.

[Yannick Hagman]

No EOS for me, cause I bought this swiss fellow here:
http://www.theflashcentre.com/images/quadra-with-head.jpg

The led might be an option for videoshooters.. :thumbsup:

[michael zaletel]

By far the best clip, IMO, that I have seen from the MKii and it's completely responsible for putting me on a fence I shouldn't even be on.

I downloaded this clip and piped it out to my 46" LCD. And this is the compressed version. Wow.

One thing that's been annoying the crap out of me is the mass inability to white balance properly. This clip nails it big time.

Come on man? Put a hot girl on a bed in a neglige backgrounded by nude photos and candles and have her stare lustfully at her drunk boyfriend photographer and you could get the WOW effect with a motorola razr camera. I don't think it's the 5D2 man, I have one and it's not the key!

:)

-michael zaletel
(shooter)

[Roberto Lequeux]

What's the word on 24fps via firmware? Anything said lately? Was this ever confirmed as either a yay or nay by Canon?

[Ethan Cooper]

Come on man? Put a hot girl on a bed in a neglige backgrounded by nude photos and candles and have her stare lustfully...

You can stop that thought right there and it makes anything better.

[Tom Lowe]

What's the word on 24fps via firmware? Anything said lately? Was this ever confirmed as either a yay or nay by Canon?

Apparently, according to rumor, Canon engineers have been working to allow 24p to use the full mbps bandwidth for 24p, which I guess in theory would result in higher image quality per frame. Hopefully they are doing something to address artifacts, though I don't know if that is even possible, given the inherent line-skipping method.

[Patrick Tresch]

Did you hear about 25p?

[Stuart English]

I remember a time not so far I had a producer asking for those 8 gig CF cards limitation... How long was it? 4 ridiculous minutes?:)

More than stopping the 5D to make another take. The 5D reacts strangely on long takes in hot environement. It seams it gets overheat (my interpretation) and makes the picture jump (like there where some frames dropped).

I interpreted this as an overheating problem because I shut down the cam for a while (5min.) and the problem dissapeared.

Fair comment Patrick :) , but at least that limitation was the media capacity.

You could shoot at 3K or 2K for longer times or use a RED-DRIVE for super long takes.

Any heating issue on a camera would be bad too, as that says you can't do back-to-back takes.

[Kholi Hicks]

Not only does the camera overheat (thanks Live View oversight) but you're exposed to red pixels of ugly if it gets too hot. A second camera for very important work is needed.

Next up, the recording limitation is a FAT limitations, not a card. That means you can get up to 12 Minutes of Recording time from the MKii before the 4GB limitation tells you no more. Is 12 minutes a bad amount of time to have? I dunno

Music Videos last 3 minutes for performance, some interviews last six continuous minutes or longer. Judge by your project.

My MKii just arrived at Best Buy and waiting to pick it up. Prepaid for that sucker and got lucky because Best Buy lowered the price by 200.00 this morning.

A+

[Tom Lowe]

I think some of this "overheating" stuff might be getting blown out of proportion. I have shot on the 5D2 for hours, almost continuously, and never really noticed it.

[Roberto Lequeux]

So 24fps is already a reality? And they are only working on giving it more file size?

Allow me to ask a few more, or run some stuff by those of you that are following this closely:

1. Line skipping doesn't affect DoF performance obviously, correct?
2. There is manual control over the ISO right? How high can it go?
3. And you can manually set apperture and focus manually. Correct?

I forgot about the line skipping stuff, but still, not a bad camera at all for what it costs and what you can do with it. Last I remember 24fps was the only issue I saw with it for what I would use it for. I definitely wouldn't looking for a new generation video DSLR to replace what I have planned for Red Code, but I really love the idea of buying something that I could carry around, take immense stills, AND be able to shoot a little 24fps with with this results.

The main appeal for me would be to gain heaps of sensitivity, hopefully enough to shoot at f/5.6 or hopefully even higher in low light situations without gut wrenching amounts of noise. I don't want the shallow look for something like a BTS. For such use I personally like the idea of deeper DoF, a little noise, and not-as-good color reproduction as your movie... I think it makes people who check out the Special Features right after watching the movie hold the quality of the movie a little higher by contrast. However how could you not go and have some serious fun with it? Shoot a little project or even a not so little one perhaps.

[David Rasberry]

By far the best clip, IMO, that I have seen from the MKii and it's completely responsible for putting me on a fence I shouldn't even be on.

I downloaded this clip and piped it out to my 46" LCD. And this is the compressed version. Wow.

One thing that's been annoying the crap out of me is the mass inability to white balance properly. This clip nails it big time.

The 720p compressed 5D footage looks better to me than the 1080. Smooths over some of the aliasing and pixel blocking if it is done well.
Best stuff I've seen was converted to Cineform for editing then output at 720.

[Ariana]

A producer I met with today for a reshoot said they lost about $200k worth of action that was shot on 5D2 because it didn't pass QC. Ouch.

[Shawn Nelson]

A producer I met with today for a reshoot said they lost about $200k worth of action that was shot on 5D2 because it didn't pass QC. Ouch.

And that's a Producer that didn't do proper testing beforehand.

[Emanuel A.]

http://prolost.com/storage/post-images/5dmark2vid.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=12433888 01596

Ouch.@ Canon website. It is too much odd for being there but it is there.

«By popular demand» too. A 'tech' democracy milestone indeed.

RED revolution is the father.

[Daniel Browning]

So 24fps is already a reality?


No. For now it's still a rumor.



1. Line skipping doesn't affect DoF performance obviously, correct?


Yes and no. It has the normal DOF that would be expected for a 36x24mm sensor at 1080p, except for the aliasing. Aliasing can affect DOF, for example, by making it appear thinner than it should be.



2. There is manual control over the ISO right? How high can it go?


The June 2 firmware is advertised to offer manual control over ISO as well as f-number and shutter speed.

In video mode, the ISO setting is allowed to go from 100 to 3200. In stills it is allowed to go up to 25,600.



The main appeal for me would be to gain heaps of sensitivity, hopefully enough to shoot at f/5.6 or hopefully even higher in low light situations without gut wrenching amounts of noise.


The 5D2 does not give you low light performance and deep DOF at the same time. I think 9mm f/1.6 on my XH-A1 had about the same noise as 70mm f/4 on my 5D2. By that standard, it requires using f/2.8 or faster lenses to get any improvement in low light performance over a 1/3" 3-chip. The reason is that 3-chippers have triple the sensor area for the same DOF, and the line skipping of course.

It's only when you open up to significantly shallower DOF that you get the low light advantage of the 5D2.



I don't want the shallow look for something like a BTS. For such use I personally like the idea of deeper DoF, a little noise, and not-as-good color reproduction as your movie...


Sounds like a job for a 3-chip camera.

[Stephen Williams]

I think some of this "overheating" stuff might be getting blown out of proportion. I have shot on the 5D2 for hours, almost continuously, and never really noticed it.

Fore sure pictures don't record smoothly when too hot, having a camera upside down makes it worse. I shot with 5 at the same time, after many hours of shooting 1 camera out of 5 had a problem, on many takes. To put it in perspective we had 12 hours of rushes in 2 days.

[Roberto Lequeux]

No. For now it's still a rumor.



Yes and no. It has the normal DOF that would be expected for a 36x24mm sensor at 1080p, except for the aliasing. Aliasing can affect DOF, for example, by making it appear thinner than it should be.



The June 2 firmware is advertised to offer manual control over ISO as well as f-number and shutter speed.

In video mode, the ISO setting is allowed to go from 100 to 3200. In stills it is allowed to go up to 25,600.



The 5D2 does not give you low light performance and deep DOF at the same time. I think 9mm f/1.6 on my XH-A1 had about the same noise as 70mm f/4 on my 5D2. By that standard, it requires using f/2.8 or faster lenses to get any improvement in low light performance over a 1/3" 3-chip. The reason is that 3-chippers have triple the sensor area for the same DOF, and the line skipping of course.

It's only when you open up to significantly shallower DOF that you get the low light advantage of the 5D2.



Sounds like a job for a 3-chip camera.

DUUUDE, you already broke my head on the 2nd answer. Hehee..
Thanks again for your posts man... remind me to hire you as soon as I can or buy you a bunch of beer. Whatever you'd prefer. :thumbsup:

Well I guess I am fine with my HVX-200 for BTS anyway, though a 170 would do better for night shoot covering, I have an HMC waiting for me up there that will do the trick for nights. My 200 will look grainy enough during day time.

Well... I am sure people will get tons of millage off these DSLRs but like you said before, if you would allow me to paraphrase, and forgive me if I am mistaken completely: I'd put my money on a 2/3 Scarlet for a personal camera. Hopefully a bigger sensor if possible.

[Rick Darge]

Shot this last night..

Nikon 17-35 - Full frame is way cool

http://vimeo.com/4926237

[Tom Lowe]

Shot this last night..

Nikon 17-35 - Full frame is way cool

http://vimeo.com/4926237

Hahaha, nice! Lol at the music. Of course, the low-light performance is off the charts.

I assume this was wide open iris?

It will be nice when ISO can be controlled, as well.

[Sanjin Jukic]

Great!

A bit vignetting but it's still OK...

What about a full HD version 1080p???

[Rick Darge]

Yea lens was between 2.8-4 most of the time. The 17-35 vignettes between 17-20mm. I heard the 16-35 Canon does not vignette. I personally like the vignetting when we're that wide at full frame but I can get rid of it if I zoom to 20mm. I would lock exposure by turning the camera on, pointing it to the ground, locking exposure then shooting away. Sanjin, I'll see about posting a full 1080 version or at least the 720p HD version. My bandwidth is a little low right now!

[Sanjin Jukic]

Richard,

super wide angles are sometimes interesting to use but not always and for a human eye is a bit un-real especially

when you have a fast moving objects involved, cars, bikes, buses, etc,...

Have a look at my footage from yesterday where the first three shots were shot on Tokina 11-16mm and all @ 11mm

and the rest on the lake was shot with Leica Summilux-R 50mm f/1.4.

It's all about a sort of distortions called like a barrel and pincushion... more or less...

LINK>>> (http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/Neusiedlsee_03.mov)

I would go for Canon 24mm f/1.4 that is even faster lens then any wider in Canon EF lens set.

Nikon 14-24 is another and maybe the best alternative but is also a bit front heavy for that sort of shooting on a bike.

[Tom Lowe]

Rick, the 720p version is already available for download at the vimeo page (for anyone logged in).

The 24L is my main lens. It's killer on the 5D2. My copy is sharper than a hooker's switchblade fresh from the knife shop.

[Stefan Christou]

Rick, the 720p version is already available for download at the vimeo page (for anyone logged in).

The 24L is my main lens. It's killer on the 5D2. My copy is sharper than a hooker's switchblade fresh from the knife shop.

Nice! :thumbsup:

[Rick Darge]

I need to checkout that 24mm but at over $1,500+...ouch!!! Tom, have any video or clips you can share from that lens?

Can't wait for full manual control on Tuesday.. Going out on another good ride then..

[Tom Lowe]

I need to checkout that 24mm but at over $1,500+...ouch!!! Tom, have any video or clips you can share from that lens?

Can't wait for full manual control on Tuesday.. Going out on another good ride then..

Check out the shot of the radio telescope dish at around 2:18, that's the 24L in action at night:

http://www.vimeo.com/4038064

[Evin Grant]

Sensitivity is amazing, I still find the wobble too distracting for moving shots without image stabilization. Hopefully the new firmware will make this possible, but there aren't any fast EOS wides with IS are there? The 24-105 F4 is the closest. Bummer.
I still won't buy one till they have 24P. Looks like I'll pick up the GH1 first.

[Tom Lowe]

24 is pretty wide on a FF35.

[Rick Darge]

Check out the shot of the radio telescope dish at around 2:18, that's the 24L in action at night:

http://www.vimeo.com/4038064

Tom your work is really inspiring. That was an amazing video. 24L looks very sharp. I'll have to test it out when I find more money.. Can you share the secret behind your night timelapse driving shots? Were you just driving very slowly? Those sequences were my favorite. Reminded me of a dream..

[Steve Sherrick]

My wife Ann just came in and watched Tom's video with me and when it finished she said she wished I had shown it to her earlier this evening because she would have been in a better mindset creatively to paint (she had put it off to do some other things). So, as always nice work Tom. She also said the music is perfect for it, and I agree. Just have to work on those guys to let you use it.

Richard, liked your video as well. I did notice the jello effect a little at times but nothing that took me completely out of the video. Love the stuff with the LAX sign. Looking forward to seeing more from you and this camera.

[Tom Lowe]

Can you share the secret behind your night timelapse driving shots? Were you just driving very slowly? Those sequences were my favorite. Reminded me of a dream..

Some info here:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=28638

Thanks, Steve!

[Greg M]

Its here folks...installing now:
http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/firm-e/eos5dmk2/firmware.html

[Robert Frank]

Its here folks...installing now:
http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/firm-e/eos5dmk2/firmware.html

My 5D2 is at Canon for a repair... I'll have to live vicariously through you folks doing the upgrade

:violent:

[Greg M]

well it works...no 24P as expected. But manual control make this a new camera.

[Robert Frank]

well it works...no 24P as expected. But manual control make this a new camera.

Have fun!:beer:

I'm looking forward to seeing tons of new footage from the 5DmkII...!

[Tom Lowe]

:party:

[Rick Darge]

Woooooo hoooooooooo!!!!

About to DL and Install. I thought it wasn't ready until tomorrow. I guess we're going by Japanese time..

[Chris Mierzwinski]

cool what a birthday gift :)

[Mark Toia]

Are you guys on the right blog?

cool camera though....

[Craig Meadows]

Just installed the new firmware. So far, very cool. The low light performance of this thing is absolutely amazing!

[david_winters]

I just bought the AC power adapter and HDMI out cable. I think I'm going to shoot a real commercial job with two of these next week.

[A. Bastaki]

i just bought this baby.. it is awe-freggin-some.

i'm thinking of selling my red. and renting it whenever i've got a gig. and ive been busy with running the festival lately.

[Steve Sherrick]

i just bought this baby.. it is awe-freggin-some.

i'm thinking of selling my red. and renting it whenever i've got a gig. and ive been busy with running the festival lately.

I'm going to need some 1080 original clips from this camera and the new firmware to put up on my HD monitor and see what you guys are getting excited about. Everything that I have seen has been in web form (except one test that I was shown early on) and it has overall looked good except for a few the issues that have been talked about a lot. I have not seen anything that has sold me on wanting to sell my RED though. Maybe I'd get it as a run and gun cam, especially in low light but other than that it's still RED all the way.

[Shawn Nelson]

I'm going to need some 1080 original clips from this camera and the new firmware to put up on my HD monitor and see what you guys are getting excited about. Everything that I have seen has been in web form (except one test that I was shown early on) and it has overall looked good except for a few the issues that have been talked about a lot. I have not seen anything that has sold me on wanting to sell my RED though. Maybe I'd get it as a run and gun cam, especially in low light but other than that it's still RED all the way.

I take it you haven't downloaded Tom's famous Timescapes clip? It's 1080p and mostly timelapse, but a few video clips as well, all from the 5dmk2. I put it up on my 42" 1080p LCD and my jaw hits the floor every time.

[Rick Darge]

It's a price to performance ratio that made me want to buy. That and the fact that I needed a lightweight portable solution for this documentary I am undertaking.

Red has a better picture. But hell, for $3k, it's crazy to not get it as a good little portable B camera.. Now full manual control and rumors that we're getting 24p. This thing rocks the house.

I'll try to do a little comparison between the 5D and the Red this weekend since I have the Nikon mount on the Red right now.

[Kholi Hicks]

It's a price to performance ratio that made me want to buy. That and the fact that I needed a lightweight portable solution for this documentary I am undertaking.

Red has a better picture. But hell, for $3k, it's crazy to not get it as a good little portable B camera.. Now full manual control and rumors that we're getting 24p. This thing rocks the house.

I'll try to do a little comparison between the 5D and the Red this weekend since I have the Nikon mount on the Red right now.

That's pretty much it.

I'm loving the Zeiss C/Y Combo as well.

Someone definitely give this guy some raw 1080 stuff to peep out. Something well lit. =D

[Steve Sherrick]

I take it you haven't downloaded Tom's famous Timescapes clip? It's 1080p and mostly timelapse, but a few video clips as well, all from the 5dmk2. I put it up on my 42" 1080p LCD and my jaw hits the floor every time.

I have, and I love Tom's stuff.

What I'm asking for are the RAW files from the camera so I can throw them up on HD broadcast monitor and evaluate. That way I can separate what might be web encoding artifacts from the real stuff.

When I say I want to see what you guys are getting excited about, I mean this in a positive way. I want to see what the camera is generating, especially with this new firmware and people having manual control over their exposures. By evaluating the original files I can ascertain what projects I could potentially put this camera to use on. Worse case, I'll rent it for a day and shoot some stuff. If I can do corporate projects with this and get similar results to what I'm getting with RED, it would save me some setup time.

Thanks guys!

[Rick Darge]

I'll see about getting you raw files Steve-o. My bandwidth is almost shot for this month though so i need an alternative to host.

[Greg M]

When I say I want to see what you guys are getting excited about, I mean this in a positive way. I want to see what the camera is generating, especially with this new firmware and people having manual control over their exposures. By evaluating the original files I can ascertain what projects I could potentially put this camera to use on. Worse case, I'll rent it for a day and shoot some stuff. If I can do corporate projects with this and get similar results to what I'm getting with RED, it would save me some setup time.

Thanks guys!

Steve,
Not sure this is the best solution for corporate work. Its hard to focus, has no audio inputs, is not the best form factor and would look odd on a corporate video job. That being said its a great camera, and as a second unit camera, bts work or anytime you need to be covert its a great fit. What impresses me most is the low light capabilities of the camera. I use it mostly for still work and combined with a 50 f1.2 you can shoot in near darkness and get stunning results. I carry mine everywhere I go.

[Paris Remillard]

People keep talking about RAW files from this camera. Not to be an ass, but there are no RAW video files from this camera. I know that most reduser types know this, but a lot of people throw around the term RAW as if it is just the files straight from the camera regardless of the codec. As opposed to being RAW unprocessed data from the sensor. Just a pet peeve.

[Steve Sherrick]

People keep talking about RAW files from this camera. Not to be an ass, but there are no RAW video files from this camera. I know that most reduser types know this, but a lot of people throw around the term RAW as if it is just the files straight from the camera regardless of the codec. As opposed to being RAW unprocessed data from the sensor. Just a pet peeve.

Sorry that's my fault. I used the term to mean the files that came directly off the camera before editing/processing/web compression. So, let me rephrase. I am curious to see the original H264 files as captured by the camera before any processing or compression has been done to them. :)

[Cristina S]

>> Thought this may interest you. I shot a music video with the 5D MK II and presented it to an audience her in South Australia, for a Canon Demo Night in the Mercury Cinema where I work. I'm lucky enough to have access to a Sony Cinealta 4k Cinema Projector and to put it mildly, people (and I) were blown away. We were able to compress to MPG2 and feed in to the projector at full res HD, which then upscales to 4k. <<

(Brad Halstead)

http://vimeo.com/4704533?pg=embed&sec=

[Stefan Christou]

Wow nice video and a lovely tune too. :thumbsup:

[Tom Lowe]

>> Thought this may interest you. I shot a music video with the 5D MK II and presented it to an audience her in South Australia, for a Canon Demo Night in the Mercury Cinema where I work. I'm lucky enough to have access to a Sony Cinealta 4k Cinema Projector and to put it mildly, people (and I) were blown away. We were able to compress to MPG2 and feed in to the projector at full res HD, which then upscales to 4k. <<

(Brad Halstead)

http://vimeo.com/4704533?pg=embed&sec=

Notice how badly this video blows away Bloom's similar video with the GH1. Not even close. 5D2 is the champion of the night.

[Evin Grant]

The 5DII is definitely the low light master but from what I've seen the GH-1 has much better skew control and better motion handling. I've downloaded the clips from both the MII and the GH1 and projected both at 1080P on a 92" screen. Overall they are pretty similar, there is a little more compression in the Gh1 but like I said better motion (24P) as well as the ability to 60FPS at 720P, which also looks great even uprezed to 1080P.
When the 5DMII gets 24P and controls the skew just a bit better we'll finally get the "game changer".

[Simon Smith]

30p converted to 24p does not hurt. Tripods either.

[albert rudnicki]

The 5DII is definitely the low light master but from what I've seen the GH-1 has much better skew control and better motion handling. I've downloaded the clips from both the MII and the GH1 and projected both at 1080P on a 92" screen. Overall they are pretty similar, there is a little more compression in the Gh1 but like I said better motion (24P) as well as the ability to 60FPS at 720P, which also looks great even uprezed to 1080P.
When the 5DMII gets 24P and controls the skew just a bit better we'll finally get the "game changer".

Also ability to put a PL mount on it, makes it very scarletish:)
I got Zeiss S16 superspeeds begging to be used.

[Daniel Lipats]

Removed the post since it was not exactly on topic.

[Tom Visser]

Notice how badly this video blows away Bloom's similar video with the GH1. Not even close. 5D2 is the champion of the night.

How much of this is the camera and how much of it is the lens? The GH1 comes with a pretty slow lens. What was used on the 5D2 in comparison?

[Kholi Hicks]

The 5DII is definitely the low light master but from what I've seen the GH-1 has much better skew control and better motion handling. I've downloaded the clips from both the MII and the GH1 and projected both at 1080P on a 92" screen. Overall they are pretty similar, there is a little more compression in the Gh1 but like I said better motion (24P) as well as the ability to 60FPS at 720P, which also looks great even uprezed to 1080P.
When the 5DMII gets 24P and controls the skew just a bit better we'll finally get the "game changer".

Exactly. My GH-1 is DEFINITELY the skew winner. The Jello on the MKii isn't great. Better than D90 but I could still eat it with a spoon it's so thick.

The GH-1, had it better compression, would be king. It's still the overall better image acquisition "VDSLR"... just the MKii got lucky with the high bitrate 1080/30P.

Give it some time and these lines will further be blurred.

[Kholi Hicks]

How much of this is the camera and how much of it is the lens? The GH1 comes with a pretty slow lens. What was used on the 5D2 in comparison?


Most people are using pretty damned fast glass with the MKii. The GH-1 hasn't even shipped stated side yet but i've been using my GH-1 with Contax Zeiss glass.

The MKii is probably a stop better than the GH-1. I haven't measured just yet, but again, the 1080 really isn't that far off from the MKii.

Just that pesky pulldown. Grr.

[Cristina S]

Disagree with Evin Grant.

Shame you didn't see this post now removed:

Removed the post since it was not exactly on topic.
Or you wouldn't compare apples to oranges.

[Tom Visser]

I'm also interested to hear about Olympus' forthcoming camera announcement this month. It is also a micro four thirds offering with a body sort of "rangefinderlike". Rumor has it that it will be video capable too. Some rumors have 2 different models being released. My only disappointment with the GH1 is the low data rate on 1080/24p. I like the idea of the Olympus because it is even more of a pocketable "high performance point and shoot" style camera than the Panasonic. When I use it for cine applications, its going to be on a tripod, head, mixer, rails, etc... so could really care less about the from factor and ergonomics of the body at that point.

Talking about the next generation or two, let's get 23.976 fps support rather than true 24p - its more appropriate for what most of us are doing. And for the broadcast side, 29.97 fps.

[Kholi Hicks]

Olympus looks like it's only 720/30P. There was a post up somewhere 'round the net. =T

Samsung NX is the one I want to see.

Wish the GH-1 could get an easy 1080/24 and 720/24 MJPEG add on. That'd be sick.

[Daniel Lipats]

Disagree with Evin Grant.

Shame you didn't see this post now removed:

Or you wouldn't compare apples to oranges.
I would put it back but just thought it would take the discussion in the wrong direction. It's likely to cause a lot of the same heated debate seen elsewhere. Somehow things always seem to gravitate to the GH1 vs 5D.

[Tom Visser]

Olympus looks like it's only 720/30P. There was a post up somewhere 'round the net. =T

Samsung NX is the one I want to see.

Wish the GH-1 could get an easy 1080/24 and 720/24 MJPEG add on. That'd be sick.

I'm pretty sure the Olympus 720/30p was complete conjecture, would like to see that guess wrong. What's the skinny on the Samsung NX? I haven't heard anything at all about it. I like the fact that Olympus and Panny seem to be set up to introduce a real solid new standard in the four thirds / micro four thirds and that the bodies are so easily adaptable to almost any other lens standard, due to the short lens back / sensor relationship and flange opening... a very friendly standard.

If the Samsung NX also uses four thirds or micro four thirds lenses, does 1080/24p at a higher bit rate, or I should really say, the end result is better, then it is a clear winner. If they decide to go with a proprietary lens system, I would probably just go with the Olympus or Panasonic models, put my investment into glass, and wait until the technology matures a bit and then upgrade the body, hoping my investment in glass has been sound.

[Matt Gottshalk]

Check out Phillip Bloom's video shot with the 5DMkII and a Nikon Zeiss ZF 50mm:

Link (http://vimeo.com/4704533?pg=embed&sec=)

[Rick Darge]

Just shot this a few days ago. Another night time biking riding fun example..

http://vimeo.com/5008702?pg=embed&sec=

This was shot with the new firmware. I did the Philip Bloom method of 30p-->23.98 conversion. I really wish we had native 24p in this thing. Oh well. Still love the low light portability.

[David Swan]

Never mind 24p. most of the world needs 25p, and needs it now!

[Craig Ryan]

Just shot this a few days ago. Another night time biking riding fun example..

http://vimeo.com/5008702?pg=embed&sec=

This was shot with the new firmware. I did the Philip Bloom method of 30p-->23.98 conversion. I really wish we had native 24p in this thing. Oh well. Still love the low light portability.

Okay I am jealous, Richard. Endless night rides are the shit! And tacos FTW.

Man this camera really does kick ass; Michael Mann must be DROOLING over that LA skyline...can see the palm trees clearly...AND you have 35mm DOF.

[Robert Frank]

Just shot this a few days ago. Another night time biking riding fun example..

Bikes rule! Now to get another halfway decent bike...

I have built my own before from the frame up but have an old beach cruiser right now. Hey don't laugh! I live near the beach.


This and the other video look great! How are you shooting while riding? Just sitting up and one handing the 5D2?

[Tom Lowe]

Just shot this a few days ago. Another night time biking riding fun example..

http://vimeo.com/5008702?pg=embed&sec=

This was shot with the new firmware. I did the Philip Bloom method of 30p-->23.98 conversion. I really wish we had native 24p in this thing. Oh well. Still love the low light portability.

Another great vid, Rick. How are you keeping the camera steady? What mic are you using?

[A. Bastaki]

made this thing real quick as i went around AD last night.

pretty neat camera.. very versatile.

right-click and save target as.. please

http://www.bastaky.com/5dquickie.m4v

[Tom Lowe]

made this thing real quick as i went around AD last night.

pretty neat camera.. very versatile.

right-click and save target as.. please

http://www.bastaky.com/5dquickie.m4v

Thanks for the quick tour of your town. :thumbsup:

[Liam Hall]

Never mind 24p. most of the world needs 25p, and needs it now!

It could do with many things, but then it is a stills camera after all.

Here's one I did with this funny little cam:

http://www.vimeo.com/4986612

[Rick Darge]

Hey guys! So far I don't have any microphone solution. I own an ME66 that I use on the Red. Just need to get that beachtek device so I can properly do sound on the Canon now.

As for handheld on the bike, it takes a bit to get used to but I'm essentially just riding and holding it with my right hand. I put the camera strap around my neck in case I hit a pot hole or need to make a quick turn. These crowds progressively get more inebriated towards the end of the night so you will notice that my camera work gets smoother and more risky as we progress forward, haha.

[A. Bastaki]

ure most welcome Tom.

[David Nardini]

Have any of you figured out a way of fixing the shimmering moire the cam generates in certain situation (high contrast edges / regular geometric shapes) ? Unless it is out of focus it really can be terminal for the shot !

Worst affected are the red and blue channels (green seems clean in my experience).

As for stills ... best approach that I've tested so far is to duplicate the layer, blur it (potentially a number of times) and do a layer 'color' blend. In certain situations it works, but not for bad bad cases.

Alternative is to keep 'bad subjects' out of focus :)

Any comments, tricks/tips you have tried and found it works .. care to share ?

[Daniel Lipats]

The easiest solution is to put it out of focus. You can also use some light diffusion to soften up the edges and avoid the problem entirely. Hope that helps.