Log and Transfer uses Edgecode instead of TOD

[Bradinn]

Hey everyone,

First, this forum has been amazing for me since I started working with Red last winter, so thank you to everyone who contributes!

I've searched high and low for this problem, but it seems that everyone else is having the opposite issue. When I go through the Log and Transfer in FCP, my RED files are displaying Edgecode instead of Time of Day. On previous projects, I always got Time of Day in Log and Transfer, and all documentation I've seen agrees with this. As far as I know, production didn't jam sync or enable the option to use Edgecode over TOD, so I don't understand why that's happening.

I'm running the offline-online Clipfinder workflow and I transcoded to QT files that use TOD. All the edits are complete, but obviously my XML is using TOD timecode, and won't conform with the Edgecode on the wrapped REDs.

I've looked at the RED files in RedAlert (after the fact) and seen that they have the correct TOD timecode, I just can't get the FCP Log and Transfer to use that as the Media Start timecode instead of using Edgecode. I've already tried turning on and off edgecode in RedAlert, but that didn't work. Does anybody have any solutions where I can make Final Cut recognize the TOD instead of Edgecode? Or even if I could convert the offline QTs to edgecode in my FCP sequence without losing my edits?

I'm hoping this is simple and there's some easy solution I glossed over...

Please let me know if I can provide more information to facilitate a solution.

[Hans-Georg Daun]

Can you post or mail me a step-by-step description of your workflow ?
I'm away from my office until Sunday evening, but I'd be happy to try and help you when I get back.

Cheers,
Hans

[Bradinn]

Hey Hans, thanks for responding.

I transferred the RED footage to a local hard drive. Then I actually followed the steps in your thread (http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=22562&highlight=clipfinder+workflow) and went the transcode route.

So to be concise, I loaded the local RED clips into Clipfinder. I rendered them ProRes at 1/2 resolution (I know your post said to do 1k), I didn't touch the edgecode settings or anything. Then I imported to Final Cut and did my edits, and exported the XML. Let me note that I did a lot of multiclip editing, but I collapsed the multiclips after I locked, so I wouldn't think that would be problematic. I then imported my XML into Clipfinder and replaced the MOVs with R3Ds. Then I made the temp directory and and copied the RDCs to it as instructed.

Everything up to this point went seemingly smooth and as planned, but once I got to the Log and Transfer, I noticed the Media Start time was edgecode and not TOD like my transcodes are. I did the L&T anyway and ran the conform on the FCP XML in Clipfinder. I used FCP's scratch directory as the clip directory and ran the conform. It said the conform was successful. Then, once I imported my XML back into Final Cut, of course the media could not be reconnected because the transcodes had one timecode and the R3Ds had another. For some reason though, a single shot of the R3Ds with mismatching timecode did link back up. I can't figure that one out, but it's got to mean there is some solution to this that I am missing.

I don't know for sure, but I don't think this is a Clipfinder problem, I think it's either something that happened in camera, something in FCP, or something I am unaware that I did to make the L&T only read edgecode.

I did a test with some old RED files on a completely new project and sequence and opened them in the Log and Transfer window. These displayed TOD as they had before. I opened these new RED files in the L&T and they still showed up as edgecode, so I don't think it's as simple as an FCP setting, but again, I am stumped. I also talked to production, and they did not switch to edgecode in camera. Any ideas?

[Bradinn]

So this does infact appear to be a multiclip issue and not a timecode issue as far as the reconnect. I haven't been able to resolve it yet, but I'm sure I can find a solution after a little bit of work now that I know the source of the problem.

I've managed to reconnect a few other files that were not multiclips, but still had the edgecode/TOD mismatch. It would seem that it doesn't matter which timecode FCP displays, because it reconnected the wrapped R3Ds even though they had completely different in and out points than the transcodes. I assume it's just reading the metadata, but I'm still curious as to why the Log and Transfer (and subsequently created files) will only display Edgecode.

Just for the sake of anyone running into this problem, I'll post whatever solution I got to with the multiclips when I find it.

[Bradinn]

And in the last piece of dialogue with myself, I've resolved the problem through a workaround. I hope it will help others who run into the problem of using XMLs that contain multiclips.

Since collapsing multiclips doesn't truly do anything, you have to make FCP revert back to the original clip. Obviously you're going to want to wait to take this step until you're locked, because once you do it, you can't go back to multiclip. To "flatten" these clips, I had to use Media Manager and create a new project file. This is very important: USE EXISTING MEDIA. If you copy the media, it will give your media subclip names, and these will not reconnect. Because I use existing media, I unselected the "delete unused media from duplicated sequence" option. I don't know if this was necessary or not, but it sounded destructive. I based the file names on existing file names and chose to duplicate the sequence and place it in a new project. Again, I don't know if this is necessary, but it worked for me. I also unselected the "Include nonactive multiclip angles" option. I have a feeling this was very important to do, but I didn't try a version selecting that option.

Once I created my new project and sequence, I had flattened multiclips, and using the Clipfinder workflow, I successfully reconnected to my wrapped R3Ds.

This seems like a stupid way to revert multiclip angles to their original clips, but I couldn't find any other way that actually worked when it came time to export an XML. Collapsing the multiclip seems like a completely pointless action, and at this point, I'm not sure if it was poorly coded or if it's for some other use I don't understand at this point. If collapsing it doesn't actually revert it back to the original clip, there doesn't seem to be a reason to collapse.

Anyway, if someone has a better method of reverting multiclips, please mention it! I would love to eliminate Media Manager in this equation and subsequently eliminate the need to create a new project and sequence for the sole purpose of flattening a multiclip. I hope this helps anybody who runs into the same problem.

Also, Hans-- Clipfinder is a wonderful program and I will be donating what I can. Thank you!

[Hans-Georg Daun]

I believe there are multiple issues here.

I have had multiple reports of conforms not working where multiclips were involved. I have not been able to figure out what goes wrong (collapsing the multiclips might be part of the problem) but there is a simple test you can perform: after you have exported the XML, try importing it again without any modifications. If that does not work properly, then the conform will obviously fail as well.

Timecodes are irrelevant for the conform operation. The FCP XML specifies in/out points in terms of frame numbers and Clipfinder thus does not look at the timecodes at all.

The issue with L&T embedding Edgecode rather then TOD into the transcoded files may be a variation of a problem we have come across before (see http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=29578). Open one of the R3Ds in Clipfinder 2.2.beta and press CMD-E, then check in the "Edit Look Settings" palette if "use Edge Code" is enabled.

Let me know what you find out.
I'm happy to help where I can.

Cheers,
Hans

[Reinhart]

Hey everyone,

First, this forum has been amazing for me since I started working with Red last winter, so thank you to everyone who contributes!

I've searched high and low for this problem, but it seems that everyone else is having the opposite issue. When I go through the Log and Transfer in FCP, my RED files are displaying Edgecode instead of Time of Day. On previous projects, I always got Time of Day in Log and Transfer, and all documentation I've seen agrees with this. As far as I know, production didn't jam sync or enable the option to use Edgecode over TOD, so I don't understand why that's happening.

I'm running the offline-online Clipfinder workflow and I transcoded to QT files that use TOD. All the edits are complete, but obviously my XML is using TOD timecode, and won't conform with the Edgecode on the wrapped REDs.

I've looked at the RED files in RedAlert (after the fact) and seen that they have the correct TOD timecode, I just can't get the FCP Log and Transfer to use that as the Media Start timecode instead of using Edgecode. I've already tried turning on and off edgecode in RedAlert, but that didn't work. Does anybody have any solutions where I can make Final Cut recognize the TOD instead of Edgecode? Or even if I could convert the offline QTs to edgecode in my FCP sequence without losing my edits?

I'm hoping this is simple and there's some easy solution I glossed over...

Please let me know if I can provide more information to facilitate a solution.

L&T uses what was set in the "timecode preference" on the camera at the time of shooting.

Craig