5dm2 raw??

[Roberto B]

posted a few minutes ago at 5d forums..

Has anyone heard the rumours which have been circulating that apparently there is an project to hack the 5D so that it delivers RAW images in Video mode....

http://cinema5d.com/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=2980

[Pawel Achtel]

hehehe, I think it requires more than a hack :rofl:

[A. Bastaki]

man i cant get to open normal 5d mk2 raw images.. in any freggin software..
LOL

let em freggin figure out how we could open em images in osx preview, lightroom, aperture, Photoshop and any other software other than DPP first.

ive got the 1.4.1 version of lightroom.. cant open it.
ive got cs3.. cant open it.
everything has to go through dppshit.

[Dan Hudgins]

man i cant get to open normal 5d mk2 raw images.. in any freggin software..


A quick search in Google turned up this,

http://www.logicaldesigns.com/Download1.htm

Quote:

[10/24/08: Update to read raw files from the 5D Mark II camera]

I was looking to see if DCRAW also works with the 5D now but did not find a good link yet, maybe someone else can find one...

==

I can say from our filmout tests that came from Canon H.264 files that H.264 is not good enough for digital cinema, the grading range is not large enough. And 30 to 24fps conversion does not work well enough in anything I have viewed so far.

If they get 24fps and real true RAW sensor data output, they will have a nice camera, if they output 100% sensor data, rather than pixel bin that will also help since pixel bin can add some aliasing issues.

Until they do that, Scarlet and R1 with RED CODE semi-raw data and 24fps will have a big advantage over H.264 and 30fps for filmmaking to filmout.

[A. Bastaki]

Dan that thing is for windows only.

I already mentioned 5d images opening in canon's dpp.

by no software i meant.. not the everyday software.. software that is supposed to open 5d raw images .. like adobe products.

[Dan Hudgins]

by no software i meant.. not the everyday software.. software that is supposed to open 5d raw images .. like adobe products.

In general it is inefficient to keep re-opening RAW sensor data since it needs to be de-moasic each time which can take minutes each time.

You use a batch converter to convert all the RAW files into TIF 48bpp files, which can be opened in most graphics programs.

Many free programs run on PCs, I would think that it would not be hard to have a cheep PC around to run non-MAC programs on?

[Stefan Christou]

You're not including the H.264 from AVCHD are you? It was used to some degree in Crank 2 in the form of a video-bullet-time rig. Most of the film was HDV though and I suppose those were VFX shots so don't really count???

[Paul Leeming]

Dan that thing is for windows only.

I already mentioned 5d images opening in canon's dpp.

by no software i meant.. not the everyday software.. software that is supposed to open 5d raw images .. like adobe products.
The 5D MkII's images can be opened only in Adobe products using ACR5 which means CS4 only, not CS3. It sucks I know, but that's how it is.

That said, Adobe do provide CameraDNG which WILL open your 5D MkII RAW files and convert them to DNG format which can then be opened by CS3 products.

HTH and please don't shoot the messenger.

Paul

[A. Bastaki]

thanks paul

i just went and upgraded my LR to Lr.

[Dan Hudgins]

You're not including the H.264 from AVCHD are you?

If you don't raise the contrast (using gamma and curves), or make other major grading changes other than maybe to darken a little you might be able to use H.264, but if you grade the source images to look like 4th generation film (or more) like my Brother wants the compression noise artifacts come up to the point that they seem much worse than the compression noise artifacts from REDCODE. REDCODE is said to be 12bit, so that may be part of the issue.

Shooting H.264 you really need to get the exposure right in the camera, and be able to live with flat grading of the images. We noticed a trick that canon seems to be using to make their H.264 look less like video, there is no white or black in the images on the computer screen, where full clipped white would be is just light gray, when you grade the white and black up to where they "should" be it starts to look less good and much more like video. I'm not sure if H.264 from different canon cameras looks different or if they all use the same chips to encode. Keeping the images very flat helps hide the compression and image processing noise, but to get a true cinema look on the filmout as far as I could tell there is just not enough data that is good in the H.264 files.

As for the 30 to 24fps frame rate conversion, that is a much bigger issue, if the frame rate was right you would get more bandwidth in the H.264 so some of the noise should go down, but at 30fps there is not enough bandwidth to be able to get cinema quality equal to 35mm movie negative film at the same grading levels as far as I could see so far in our tests. The compression and image processing noise does not look like film grain, I call it "macro noise" since it is quite large and block like. The graded images look quite good from the canon camera if you look at still frames, but when you project the images at 24fps the "macro noise" shows as well as the motion artifacts, too bad, because if they had 24fps RAW then both of those problems would go away, maybe...

Canon has a chance to make something useful to filmmakers, but their corporate "logic" will probably prevent the engineers from making what filmmakers want and need, thats sad, but at thest RED is trying to fill the demand for filmmaking tools, even if they don't want to supply the true raw market (when it would be easy for them to offer a low cost 24fps RAW option for scarlet etc. now that FLASH and DRAM are so fast, they could make a "shoot then dump" module to store a minute of shot at high speed in a buffer, then dump the data to their existing recording options at lower speeds.)

[Daniel Lipats]

Often the most common issue with this camera is a poor post workflow. If you just throw the videos into your NLE they will not display correctly. The problem is Quicktime, it will destroy the videos by shifting gamma, leaving gaps in the channels, and increasing the apparent noise.

The easiest way to avoid this is to use Cineform Neo Scene to transcode the MOV files to Cineform. It was designed to specifically preserve the integrity of the 5D h.264 videos. This avoids the gamma shifts and all other problems related to the Quicktime codec. This also allows for easier editing and archival.

[A. Bastaki]

i did this:
http://www.bastaky.com/5dquickie.m4v

in fcp. didnt seem so bad.

unless you guys are talking windows and adobe products... i was actually thinking about that.

[Matt Gottshalk]

Canon D-SLR Log & Transfer Plugin for Final Cut Pro from our friends @ Glue Tools

http://tinyurl.com/l7b9yb

Today at CineGear 2009 in Hollywood, GlueTools, a Santa Barbara software company specializing in motion picture plug-ins for Final Cut Studio, is announcing a workflow for Canon D-SLR cameras and Final Cut Pro. The product is a log and transfer plug-in allowing ingest of High Definition video recorded with Canon D-SLR cameras directly into Final Cut Pro. The plug-in easily and quickly ingests footage directly into Final Cut Pro, maintaining the original quality and expediting production. Along with the imagery and audio, EXIF data is also ingested and added to the project file. Currently the supported cameras include the Canon EOS 5D Mk. II at 1080p and the Canon Rebel T1i at 720p.

ProRes 422 Transcoding

The GlueTools Canon D-SLR plug-in will transcode footage to ProRes 422, an ideal format when working with Final Cut Studio. ProRes 422 enables maximum compatibility with the other packages in the Final Cut Studio suite. ProRes is also beneficial for laptop users. 1080p MPEG can sometimes be a problem for playback on some models of laptops. Once transcoded to ProRes, laptops can easily work with the footage at full speed.

Time Code track and Reel Name

The editorial process is often made easier when footage has a Time Code track and Reel Name. The Canon D-SLR itself camera itself will not create a time code track or reel name, as it was never designed to add these types of information. The EXIF metadata that is recorded is used to create the time code start time. As the footage is ingested into Final Cut Pro, a time code track is added using the movie’s time stamp. The name of the CF or SD card is used as the reel name.

Quick Turn-Around of Memory Cards

If it’s not practical to transcode the footage due to time constraints, it may be faster to archive CF or SD cards directly to hard drive, allowing the preservation of a perfect copy of the memory card for a later ingest. Final Cut Pro’s Log & Transfer system will build a Disk Image file (a .DMG file) and clone the card, not only preserving the imagery and movies, but all of the related metadata associated with the footage, which is ideal for a quick turn-around of memory cards. The GlueTools Canon D-SLR plug-in will easily read these .DMG files. The plug-in and Final Cut Pro are designed to work with the memory cards and the .DMG files interchangeably. There will be no difference between the memory card or the .DMG file as far as the Log & Transfer plug-in is concerned.

View EXIF data of each Canon DSLR clip

Once the GlueTools plug-in is installed, a new menu item will be available in Final Cut Pro’s Tools menu. By selecting a clip in Final Cut Pro, one can select the Tools > Canon EXIF Data menu item and see the EXIF data that was ingested with the shot. EXIF information associated with the footage, such as the Exposure, Shutter Speed, etc, will all be available.

GlueTools has been known primarily for its line of motion picture software plug-ins for Final Cut Studio, including its ARRIRAW Toolkit, enabling cinematographers, editors and artists to use QuickTime to read and work with ARRI’s D-21 raw image files.

The GlueTools Log & Transfer Plug-in for Canon D-SLR cameras and Final Cut Pro will be available sometime in mid-June. The price of the software license will be determined shortly. DV Info Net will carry a full usability report and review of the GlueTools plug-in very soon.

[Daniel Lipats]

Just put together a quick example. The 5D Mark II video was converted to Cineform using Neo Scene and was dropped into a time line with the original MOV. As you can see, the MOV histogram is offset and contains gaps.

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/305574/histogram.jpg

This is not a problem with the camera. It's the way that Quicktime decodes the videos. I have not tested this across systems, but if you are using FCP, Adobe, Avid, etc you probably experience the same problem. That's why blacks turn to gray, you see more noise, and banding gets worse.

[David Rasberry]

D5 shoots raw at 4fps. Take quite a hack, not to mention a huge upgrade in processing power to get it to 24fps. Could the sensor even keep up when it has a hard time keeping up with sub sampled 1080p?

[Dan Hudgins]

D5 shoots raw at 4fps. Take quite a hack, not to mention a huge upgrade in processing power to get it to 24fps. Could the sensor even keep up when it has a hard time keeping up with sub sampled 1080p?

I think it would be shooting the same (pixel bin mode), you would just take the data from the sensor output and record it RAW, somewhat like the AndroMeda,

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=6179

At 24fps the bandwidth is lower, so since it shoots 30 there shoud be no problem shooting to a RAW recorder the 1920x1080x12bit data, the Acam dII memory could record that when they get it working...

[Dan Hudgins]

This is not a problem with the camera. It's the way that Quicktime decodes the videos. I have not tested this across systems, but if you are using FCP, Adobe, Avid, etc you probably experience the same problem. That's why blacks turn to gray, you see more noise, and banding gets worse.

I think you are probably right about Quicktime under Windows (tm) being part of the problem with the H.264 files conversion to frames for the DIY film recorder.

We noticed that the motion playback from the camera's NTSC output is smoother than when the converted frames are playbacked from an uncompressed AVI in media player or VirtualDub etc.

What are the best Windows (tm) options for converting the camera's H.264 files into numbered 16bit (48bpp) TIF frame files at full resolution?

Can you give me a step by step software list to do the conversions for the lowest cost lossless solution?

The "macro noise" does seem above the 8th bit though, maybe Windows (tm) is re-encoding the data in some way?

In order to hold the highlights it was needed to knock the exposure down from 1/2 to a full stop, and the noise level we were getting does not really let one get away with that much under-exposure, the image look very nice as still frames graded, but moving on the film projection the "macro noise" isues are severe. My Brother would very much like to see if we can get some way to make the H.264 files usable as 24fps frames for filmout, so if anyone can help with real ideas (of what software etc. to use) that would really work please chime in...

I can see where some people would think H.264 is OK for a finshed diverable fromat, but for use as a Digital Cinema "camera negative" format it will always have limited over and under exposure range, as well as limited range for other adjustments in grading. That said, if one can light like one would for video, and take the images as they come from the camera, it might be usable if the fps and noise issues can be reduced, which is what I hope those here can explain in detail how to do(?).

I guess you all know about Cinema5D?

http://www.cinema5d.com/

How Canon can ignore the interest of so many potential buyers by not having 24fps goes against the Japanese business model of supposedly giving customers what they want. 24fps and manual audio level and exposure are such obvious features for such a camera, as well as RAW recording of the sensor data.

[Dan Hudgins]

Canon D-SLR Log & Transfer Plugin for Final Cut Pro from our friends @ Glue Tools

Can you post some links to sample 16bit (48bpp) TIF file frames extracted from H.264 files shot with Canon cameras?

Both in 1920x1080x48bit and 1280x720x48bit as per the size of the camera's H.264 file shot.

It would be a big help to compare the results in the TIF frames for conversions using different softwares, I am shure if your method of conversion, including 30 to 24fps conversion, is best there would be great interest.