Prepping Canon 5DII for commercial

[david_winters]

2 Camera shoot. Interview format and desktop product shots. Shooting on a stage with sets, dialog is scripted and very short. Typical shot is 5-10 seconds. Shooting several segments over two days. Looks like a good project to attempt on the 5DII and client is totally willing.

I've spent a bunch of time prepping and testing. We will have some focus pulls and small product moves. Using a small jib with fluid head.

1. Is there a way to extend the live view time-out? Right now it looks like I get a live image for about 1 minute before the shutter clicks closed. Unless of course we roll.

2. Anyone run into image shift or noise increase from staying up in live view too long?

3. We are shooting double system with time-code slate. Any sync drift issues with the camera? We are going to run the audio as non-drop post at true 30.00 and do a final change to 29.97 for the tape master. So audio and picture will slow-down together. And, this is primary for web so I may never have to slow down to 29.97.

4. Got the video village issues sorted out. HDMI out to a HDMI DA which feeds all the required monitors (see photos). The time lag for the monitor to swich from live view res to recording res is a bummer but totally workable.

5. Using Canon AC power adapters so no battery change hassles.

6. Dedicated download data tech / DMX board operator - ok not so dedicated.

7. Going to shoot with an 80C, not happy with 3200k WB setting.
Any other warnings or issues I should look out for? I haven't messed with any of the custom "picture style" settings, should I?

8. Rig looks major overkill, like one of those crazy DOF adapter setups, but it works. The riser is from a teleprompter and gets the camera balanced with the FF not crashing into the head.

9. Waiting on lens gears to arrive, FedEx today I hope.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3638/3613144828_3482bc5a20_b.jpg

50mm 1.4 fits.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2483/3613168126_2d37470d37.jpg

24-70mm fits - no vignette issues with lens shade attached and 4x5.56 trays.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2421/3613155440_fffe608671.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3344/3613150376_4351867038.jpg

[Radim Schreiber]

Nice setup. Why are you using filters/matt box?

[david_winters]

80C and possibly some pro mists.

[Matt Gottshalk]

That's pretty cool.

Tag for video.

if you want to convert to 24fps, here's how:

Link. (http://philipbloom.co.uk/2009/05/30/how-to-convert-canon-5dmk2-footage-from-30p-to-24p/)

[christopher witzke]

also... don't forget to create a "style" setting with the contrast pulled down all the way and the sharpness 3 or 4 clicks..... gives a flatter image for better post grading.

[david_winters]

I love 30p, been shooting it for broadcast spots, tradeshows, corporate, web for 10 years. To date I've shot more Red media @ 29.97 vs 23.976. The 5D true 30.00p does have my sound guy a little concerned.

I need to spend some time messing around with "picture style" settings. I'm afraid to make too drastic a change without having time to take it all the way through post testing. I would like to lift the blacks a bit if possible.

[M Most]

I love 30p, been shooting it for broadcast spots, tradeshows, corporate, web for 10 years. To date I've shot more Red media @ 29.97 vs 23.976. The 5D true 30.00p does have my sound guy a little concerned.

Are you absolutely sure it's 30 and not 29.97? The camera has NTSC out, which would indicate that it's 29.97, not 30.

[david_winters]

Hi Mike,

It's 30.00. Based on QT player, FCP, and AE. Sound guy is confused as to what TC to set on his recorder. 29.97 or 30.00. But as I understand it making this change on a sound recorder only changes the TC from drop to non-drop. It doesn't actually change the "speed" at which the recorder rec and plays back, correct? Which means it doesn't matter if the sound files have TC @ 29.97 or 30.00? Right?

[Tom Lowe]

There is definitely a simple way to keep the Live View on for much longer time. It's something simple in the menu, I believe.

I like your setup david! Can you post the results when they are cleared with the client?

[M Most]

Hi Mike,

Sound guy is confused as to what TC to set on his recorder. 29.97 or 30.00. But as I understand it making this change on a sound recorder only changes the TC from drop to non-drop. It doesn't actually change the "speed" at which the recorder rec and plays back, correct? Which means it doesn't matter if the sound files have TC @ 29.97 or 30.00? Right?

Wrong. 30 is 30, and 29.97 is 29.97. Drop frame is a change in the counting sequence, and is unrelated to frame rate even though it was designed to bring 29.97 time code "real time" accuracy. Technically, you can have 30 DF as well as 30 NDF, and you can have 29.97 NDF (used very often in post production) as well as 29.97 DF. The important factor in terms of maintaining sync is that the picture and sound run at the same rate, regardless of what that is. If your deliverables are either 60i HD or NTSC, you are, by definition, going to have to bring everything down to 29.97. You can maintain sync by one of two methods: marry the picture and sound at 30FPS and pull down the result ("conform" in a FCP situation), or pull down the picture and pull down the sound separately. Given your description of this job, I would probably look at using 30 frame TC on the sound, keeping it the same rate as the picture. Be careful when importing sound to various programs, though, as some of them will automatically pull it down in anticipation of 29.97 picture.

Of course, if you simply play back the sound synching to itself, it doesn't matter what the time code is, or if you even have time code. Are you old enough to remember pilot tone?

[david_winters]

Mike,

Ok, sound recorder set to 30.00. We are going to edit in FCP at 30.00. Then if this thing goes to tape (currently it's a web run only) we'll pull down picture and sound to 29.97 once it's locked. So, if I record sound at 30.00 I have to confirm that FCP is not playing it back at 29.97.

Pilot tone nope. Sounds analog.

Thanks

[Kyle Spicer]

One other thing to check for is if you are recording external audio. The camera supposedly records at 30, but if you record an external audio source at 30 and try to sync it they will not match. From what I hear the 5DMII really records at 29.97, but shows up in metadata as 30.

[M Most]

One other thing to check for is if you are recording external audio. The camera supposedly records at 30, but if you record an external audio source at 30 and try to sync it they will not match. From what I hear the 5DMII really records at 29.97, but shows up in metadata as 30.

Hence why I asked the question as to whether it's really 30.

[david_winters]

Well I guess I don't know. I can only confirm they playback at 30.00.

Thanks for all the help.

[Kyle Spicer]

Hence why I asked the question as to whether it's really 30.

HeHe.I figured that's what you were getting at :).

[donatello b]

canon refers to it as video HD 1920x1080 ..i don't recall any video HD spec being 30fps
most do use the terms 30p, 24p when it is really 29.97 & 23.97 and then many call it 29.98 & 23.976 ...
i think what canon means by TRUE 30P = it's not 30Psf ... canon also mention 640x480 as SD NTSC/PAL ...
i do not see anywhere in canon manual or under spec's on their web site anything about 29.97fps or 30fps ...i do see HDMI out ... i do see video HD mentioned ..
if you have the camera then you must have Canon support so for the project you might double check with them ( guessing the 1st person you talk with probably won't know what you're talking about )

[Tom Lowe]

Audio will drift in a 30fps timeline. I shot a 6-min interview, dropped it into a 30fps timeline, and by the end of the clip, audio was way off.

[david_winters]

QT player and FCP see the 5D clips as 30. So, now I need to confirm if the camera is recording at 29.97 or 30. Which I hope to figure out tomorrow.

[david_winters]

Tom,

When you dropped in a 29.97 timeline did the audio stay in sync?

[Tom Lowe]

Tom,

When you dropped in a 29.97 timeline did the audio stay in sync?

hehe... i didn't try it yet. if i get a chance, i can try tomorrow.

[Luis de la Cerda]

Here's a picture style I spent a long time working on. I think it improves on some key points such as getting good contrasty images so you need as little cc as possible to avoid banding but without losing shadow detail. It also desaturates reds a bit so they don't clip.

Hope you like it.

[david_winters]

Day one of two complete. I had to cancel my plan of shooting with 80C filters as I have two filters from different manufactures. The Tiffen looked close to color neutral but the B camera filter had a lot of green bias in it. I got scared, we were behind, so I pulled filters and shot at 3200k.

The scenes were reasonably low contrast but man it's ugly when the highlights go. Skin tones are at bit too red at 3200k but we'll make it work in post.

Sound Dept having trouble with sync drift. Multiple 1 min+ takes, some takes drift by 2 frames at :60, others are 8+ frames off. I'll have a more accurate report once we are in post. We're all confused as to what frame rate the camera actually records at 29.97 vs 30.00. Sound mixer thinks the camera does not stay locked, which would explain the inconsistent sync drift.

[Matt Gottshalk]

http://vimeo.com/4920433

Philip Bloom shows you how to convert it to 24p and maintain audio sync.