Infrared filming

[Hugh Miller]

Hi, one for the red team.
Lots of Nat His is using Infra red lighting for night shots as its much more acceptable to the viewer than Image Intensifiers (not to mention the ability to shoot in HD). The thing is, on the Sony 750, 900 and Panasonic Varicams (the top cameras for these shoots), its relatively straightforward to remove the infra red filter from infront of the chip and replace it with a clear one. Its possible to do this on location with just a screwdriver.

Will it be possible to do this on the Red camera?

Thanks

[Hugh Miller]

Ok, someone must be able to answer this. Its a serious question.....Please.

[Jason Murphy]

This thread has some speculations, but I haven't heard anything official about modding the camera to shoot IR either way.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2808

[Hugh Miller]

Well I just want to bump this, cause I still dont know the answer! As there are models in test it must be possible to say one way or the other.

Thanks

[Brook Willard]

I bet this isn't a priority right now. Maybe it'd be available in the future... but I don't see them losing sleep over getting this into the first cameras.

Just a guess.

[Hugh Miller]

I appreciate you answering but I think you misunderstand, Its a simple question about how the camera is built. Not a request for a feature. The filter is ubiquitous in cameras such as the Sony 750, Sony 900, Panasonic Varicam etc etc. They all have the same filter that can be unscrewed. Its the first layer behind the back element of the lens. Guess I'll have to wait to see the camera in the flesh.
Shame though, one photograph could do it!

Cheers

[Brook Willard]

Unlike the 750, 900 and Varicam, the RED ONE uses a Bayer pattern single-layer sensor [instead of three chips as with the cameras you have listed]. 3CCD cameras require an additional optical element behind the lens - the optical element that I assume you are referring to.

In the RED ONE [or with any Bayer sensor], there is "nothing" in front of the sensor. I use the term "nothing" loosely, as technically there is an optical low-pass filter and a Bayer filter in front of the sensor itself. Since these parts are sandwiched together, all three of these elements just look like a sensor itself to a casual observer.

So if you pulled the lens off, you could stick your finger all the way into the lens mount until you made contact with the "sensor." There is no optical element as you described.

Now with that said, I don't know a lot about the actual design of the RED ONE [or sensor blocks in general]. I know there needs to be an IR filter of sorts... and that may very well be sandwiched right onto the sensor [as with the OLPF and Bayer filter]. I know that removing the IR filter from a DSLR [using a Bayer sensor] is quite a significant process that generally involves significant disassembly of the camera. Since the RED ONE is basically a DSLR on steroids... I imagine that the process would be the same. That's all just me bullshitting - I really don't know.

[Ace]

Brook, Im pretty sure all sensors are sensitive to infra red and require filtering for this. I think removing the IR filter is mostly whats required plus the addition of another filter in front of the lens. Keep in mind its only a thin piece of glass in front of the sensor. I find this photography fascinating and with red's capabilities of high ISO's, it would look spectacular.

http://lsphoto.de/ir_done-preview.jpg
http://www.xsrider.com/infrared/lake2IR.jpg
http://www.adobe.com/designcenter/photoshop/articles/phs8kbinfrared/phs8kbinfrared_1.jpg
http://www.infraredphoto.eu/Pictures-IR-Papers/IRpaper_PartOne_1.jpg

[Brook Willard]

Exactly, Acehole. To my knowledge, there are two steps as you described: Remove the camera's IR filter and use an IR pass filter [to filter out the visible spectrum].

The latter is easy - I believe a normal IR pass filter can be put behind the lens. The former is the problem.

Here (http://www.astrosurf.org/buil/350d/350d.htm) is an example of how difficult removing the IR filter from a DSLR is. Will it be this difficult on the RED ONE? I dunno. My gut feeling is that it won't be much easier.

[jbeale]

The IR filters I have seen are of significant thickness (eg. 2 mm thick) so if you simply remove it without replacing it with clear glass of the same index you will shift the focus and may not be able to focus @ infinity. I believe some filters are optically bonded to the detector, meaning removal would be difficult without damage.

However, here is one person who modifies some Canon DSLRs to remove the IR-block filter for $250 - $380:
http://www.hapg.org/camera%20mods.htm

FWIW- in 2006, Fuji announced the S3 Pro UVIR which was apparently just a 2004 camera design with the UV/IR filter removed, and the new camera cost significantly more money. Also, Fuji recently announced a new UV/IR model "IS Pro".
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0608/06080904fujifilms3prouvir.asp
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0707/07071304fujifilmispro.asp