r3d Heaven..build 20?

[Obin Olson]

Jim:

What on EARTH did you guys do with build 20? this camera is brand new again, what with zero grain? and colors that are so natural and vibrant...I am sitting here speechless in RedCine.....I am now wondering if I am seeing things...Did you really overhaul the sensor/compression/color or what?

half quick in RedCine looks far better then it did before....is it? or am I just tired?

oh and lets not forget about how it now looks over HDSDI........wow...someone noticed, made changes, and got it right.

[SF Geek]

I thought that the noise improvement was all in the post debayer with the new Red Alert. All of the examples posted were old footage processed with the new Red Alert. Am I mistaken? Is there something in the new firmware that also decreases noise?

[Craig Parkes]

SF Geek - it's the same thing, it just allows you to see the results you will get in Red Alert/Red Cine on your camera attached monitors, accurately. Thus you will SEE less noise and better (accurate) colours on set, just as you end up seeing them when the footage is processed in Red Alert.

[Obin Olson]

Whatever it is. I can see it. And it's not a small improvement.

[Obin Olson]

it could also be that I am using all HMI lights too...maybe?

[SF Geek]

I never really had a problem seeing too much noise in the on set monitor, actually the opposite. I understand that the white balance and color on the monitor out is more accurate with the new build, but that doesn't mean that the build had less noise written into it. Can someone confirm what is decreasing noise, Graeme, Jarred, Deanan?

[Jannard]

I never really had a problem seeing too much noise in the on set monitor, actually the opposite. I understand that the white balance and color on the monitor out is more accurate with the new build, but that doesn't mean that the build had less noise written into it. Can someone confirm what is decreasing noise, Graeme, Jarred, Deanan?

What matters is that the build has better color, more accurate monitoring and less noise. How it is done won't be addressed other than to say it was a lot of work on Graeme's part.

Jim

[Joel Kaye]

it could also be that I am using all HMI lights too...maybe?

Well 20 appears to look much better under tungsten. RED under HMI's has always looked pristine for me. Totally noise free in my experience. Ditto with anything daylight.

[Raphael Varandas]

Ok guys... im just downloading the 20.
in a couple minutes maybe more i will check the footage and confirm that your liers.:sifone:


Thank You Team

[SF Geek]

What matters is that the build has better color, more accurate monitoring and less noise. How it is done won't be addressed other than to say it was a lot of work on Graeme's part.

Jim

Sorry, I didn't mean tell me your secrets. I just want to know if Build 20 decreases noise on it's own. If I processed footage shot with Build 20 in Redcine or Final Cut L&T plugin (any program that uses the old color science), will that footage have reduced noise from say, build 18? If this is true, then my other question is, will it be more reduced if it's processed with the new Red Alert?

I hope this makes my question clearer. I don't know why I'm having such a hard time understanding this new build+Red Alert package.

[Craig Parkes]

SF Geek, Graeme or Jim (or both, can't quite remember which) stated that the whole process was just affecting the metadata - That the compression etc is all identical and this is just new colour science, so render times and everything else should be identical.

These statements pretty much preclude anything going on in camera, other than any improvement in exposure control that comes from having more accurate monitoring on set.

[SF Geek]

From what you say, it sounds like a post thing(debayering). The thing is that is says reduced noise on the Build 20 list of improvements. Is this some kind of metadata tag that works through all red post options, not just the new Red Alert?

[Craig Parkes]

It will be in all post options once it is released through the SDK - as they have said.

[Obin Olson]

I am pretty sure somthing is going on in camera .... It just looks better ....Jim?

[Jannard]

I am pretty sure somthing is going on in camera .... It just looks better ....Jim?

I agree with you... it just looks better. :-)

Jim

[Andrew Wilding]

To be fair,I haven't had any Coffee this morning, but I've got a potentially stupid question regarding the new colour science. Does it only affect redspace or also rec709? I seem to rememeber hearing that it was primarily a redspace improvement, but Im a 709 guy and Im not anxious to switch. Will I still see improvements in my colour space of choice?

[Deanan]

To be fair,I haven't had any Coffee this morning, but I've got a potentially stupid question regarding the new colour science. Does it only affect redspace or also rec709? I seem to rememeber hearing that it was primarily a redspace improvement, but Im a 709 guy and Im not anxious to switch. Will I still see improvements in my colour space of choice?

It affects all the color spaces.

[RivaiC]

I think this is the distinct advantages of RAW camera like RED. the bayer footage is basically like film negative. Any improvements made by the debayering system, will improves the look of the bayer footage after the new debayering is done. I love the idea...

[Brian Langeman]

Can we see changes in Redcine too? Or is the new color science only a part of Red Alert and Red Rushes? The Redcine download says it only supports up to Build 18.

[Nick Shaw]

It affects all the color spaces.

Does it only affect the matrix processing? ie if we switch the matrix off in RED Alert is the result then the same as before. Superficially visually that appears to be the case, but I haven't done a detailed comparison of noise with matrix off.

[BASSAM MSSALATIE]

Should i upgrade to build 20 or not yet ?

[Obin Olson]

I would get it. looks so much better on the live preview it's worth it just for that.

I am now convinced that I will want 3 Scarlet/Epic cameras. I have never has such an amazing "freedom of shots" as i have had with the 5d, even though the image is not up to par...using a small camera is SOOO awesome for getting new shots that the RED is just to heavy/big to get//POV shots, underwater shots, shots going down a water slide with talent shots from ma Helicam etc .....please hurry up Jim....I want them NOW!!!!

[Andrew Wilding]

Before I make the jump into the land of Build 20 - Can you still edit using proxies in FCP with this build?

*edit* I guess I should clarify - I get that I wont get the improvements in blue channel noise etc unless i use red alert to output prores' or what have you, until the sdk stuff is all sorted - but I am asking if I will be able to use the proxy method in FCP PERIOD - forfeiting the build 20 improvements, that is. Essentially, can I install build 20, continue using the proxy method exactly as before, but use red alert when a clip has noise issues?

I realize I did a poor job of making myself clear. Hopefully someone can decipher these ramblings. *edit*

[Paul Leeming]

Yes you can Andrew :)

HTH

Paul