MK-V REVOLUTION stabilisation systerm [Archive]

Alex Boothby

07-08-2007, 10:09 PM

Has anyone tried one of these:

http://www.mk-v-ar.com/

Looks very interesting. You can check out demo clips on the above site. I know some are being used in production of 'On The Lot'. Article here:

http://www.studiodaily.com/main/technique/casestudies/8193.html

snip: "“It’s a self-leveling steadicam so you can invert the sled and the camera always stays perfectly level. No matter what direction it always maintains a perfect horizon. I can walk backwards level with a person’s feet as they are walking and then twist the steadicam around and go up to his head and the shot just looks like I’ve boomed up.”

They even have a section on their web site called "Join The Revolution" - ha ha...

Chris Nuzzaco

07-08-2007, 10:20 PM

Wow, that soldier video is pretty slick man...

Chris Nuzzaco

07-08-2007, 10:31 PM

Just watched some more, WOW! theres one clip where the camera is going upside down while moving and craning, jeezz!:w00t:

Alex Boothby

07-08-2007, 10:39 PM

I think the continuous low-mode-to-high-mode ability makes this system really stand out. Plus it looks cool.

Looking at the compatible cameras section, the MK-V AR should work well with Red One.

Poi Boy

07-08-2007, 10:45 PM

I remember seeing this a couple of years ago and thinking it was cool. Haven't heard anything about it since...I wonder is there something wrong with it that I haven't seen it adopted ?
Aloha
-A

Chris Nuzzaco

07-08-2007, 11:02 PM

Maybe they had more "corporate" issues with releasing it.... or an engineering delay that pushed back mass production :whistling:

Did any of you see the video clip of a guy riding a segway wearing the rig? Never thought about using those in film production. It looked a bit modified too, seemed to have leg braces on it.

Alex Boothby

07-08-2007, 11:10 PM

AftonGrant

07-08-2007, 11:33 PM

The AR is definitely in production by MK-V in Britain. The system will run you about $60k on top of an already well rounded $125k (and up) stabilization system. Like a stabilizer, it's not something that can just be picked up and run with. In fact, even accomplished Steadicam ops will require a rather lengthy amount of time to learn to properly use it.

There are a handful of ops here in the states that own them (no more than 12 I believe). It's been employed in a number of films, one of the first big ones being "Rent" - operated by one of the AR pioneers Will Arnot.

Although you probably wouldn't see shots like those demo clips in an actual production, they're great to demonstrate the capabilities of the system. Check out this commercial (http://www.steadishots.org/shots_detail.cfm?shotID=250) to get a great sense of how this can be used for real. It's a single take, no cuts, no big effects other than a little bit of added architecture in the beginning. Shot in real time (Arnot again).

Unfortunately, a great deal of controversy has surrounded this system. I don't wish to get involved so I won't elaborate, but if you do a bit of research I'm sure you'll be able to find what's up.

Peace!

AftonGrant

07-08-2007, 11:48 PM

Just read the ZERB article on the site. It was used on the film Rent, as well as some commercials and tv dramas. Will Arnot, Jeff Mart, Chris McGuire and a few other steadicam ops seem to be out there using it currently. Maybe it's a slow-burn revolution??!?! :sarcasm:

Quote from Rent DOP Stephen Goldblatt: "The AR will transform Steadicam as we know it because a Steadicam becomes a sort of miniature Technocrane."

Chris McGuire is the fellow operating in the MK-V demo videos. Will Arnot is the great operator I spoke of previously. Unfortunately, Will has since put his up for sale due to many of the controversial issues I mentioned before.

The system fit in great for many of the shots Goldblatt needed for "Rent". However, I don't necessarily think it will transform Steadicam. It's been in use for a few years already and it hasn't so far. When the Steadicam community first started to hear about it, there were questions about it making it simple to maintain horizon, making our long-practiced skills obsolete. Also, it seemed to do everything a Steadicam can do, and more. However, the price barrier is enormous, on top of the need to already be an excellent Steadicam operator. So other than the few ops that have added it to their kits, the rest of us operate just as we always have. It has become more like any other tool in the tool belt. It is pulled out when it can be useful, and put away when it can't.

Alex Boothby

07-08-2007, 11:53 PM

Check out this commercial (http://www.steadishots.org/shots_detail.cfm?shotID=250) to get a great sense of how this can be used for real. It's a single take, no cuts, no big effects other than a little bit of added architecture in the beginning. Shot in real time (Arnot again).
Peace!

Wow that spot was nuts - thanks for sharing Afton.

AftonGrant

07-08-2007, 11:58 PM

Did any of you see the video clip of a guy riding a segway wearing the rig? Never thought about using those in film production. It looked a bit modified too, seemed to have leg braces on it.

Yes, the Handsfree Transporter as it has been called, was created by a team in Germany. They modified the original Segway, removing the handlebars, and placing the steering controls at the base of the system as pedals. You still move by simply leaning forward and back. It works quite well and is equally as intuitive as the original Segway.

The system costs about $20k, so it is certainly not something to buy in place of a regular Segway. It is marketed to industries like Steadicam that can really benefit from it. It was used not too long ago to shoot one of the major golf events. The Steadicam operator was able to travel all over the full golf course without problem, something that would be next to impossible on foot.

Priyesh P.

07-09-2007, 12:27 AM

Hi Afton,

of course you're talking about that fight between Will, Howard and a couple of others, right? Some of the most nasty discussions and accusations I've ever heard of between such professionals, but I'll also not go much deeper into it...

Back to the subject. The Alien Revolution looks like a logical extension of the Steadicam, still it's some special kind of rig you won't need all the time.
I mean it's abiltity to switch between high and low mode or to float sideways is kinda special and comes at a hefty price tag + plus additional weight and sled length.
Not to belittle it's uniqueness, but people sometimes confuse it as a total replacement rather than a companion to a regular Steadicam.

P.S.: Afton, steadishots.org is a really great site! I'm only waiting for more work of Joerg Widmer who did some mindblowing operating on a German feature called "The Promise" (1995) original Title: "Das Versprechen" where he got the first and only bavarian film award for Steadicam work.

Brian D. Goff

07-09-2007, 01:21 AM

I wanted to wait until I have a lot of video footage ready, but since it's subject now... - here it is the affordable addition to your existing steadicam: The ActionCam Hi/Low-mode "360 Xtreme"

Cheers

James T Mather

07-09-2007, 01:23 AM

I've used it on a commercial (with an excellent operator) - plus had a wander around with it - the thing is extraordinary but hard on the back (much more so than, say, a standard steadicam) - as the serious mechanics are all out on the sled (which means all the weight is at the point on the unit where it is causing the most "pull" on the operator). I'm sure one would get used to it given time and training. It does what it says on the tin - ie: Maintain a level horizon - in addition to having a "roll" head (for people who like that De Palma style shot). Low mode to high in less than a second.

One thing I noticed was that, like most, steadicam systems on a set (as so often happens) - that it made the director think he had some class of a motion control system and the poor op kept getting given "impossible" shots which he bravely (and "non-complainingly") would soldier on with - relentless retake after relentless retake. The guy spent all day, for three long days, wearing the thing. Like steadicam it also means that directors can change their minds on a dime and lighting has to reset itself constantly.

Priyesh P.

07-09-2007, 01:40 AM

Hi Brian,

looking forward for the new demo-videos on your site.
Any idea how long it'll take?

Sanjin Jukic

07-09-2007, 01:55 AM

Looks pretty good!

http://www.mk-v.com/ar-site/mk-v-revolution-site/ar01_640.jpg

Amazing demos

video1
http://www.mk-v.com/ar-site/video/dl.php?file=ar_v2_2500kbps.mov

video 2
http://www.mk-v.com/ar-site/video/dl.php?file=mo_hitseq_2500kb.mov

AftonGrant

07-09-2007, 06:12 AM

Hi Afton,
of course you're talking about that fight between Will, Howard and a couple of others, right? Some of the most nasty discussions and accusations I've ever heard of between such professionals, but I'll also not go much deeper into it...

Yes, that would be it, although that conflict was created independent of Will. I've retyped what I wanted the next few sentences to be several times, but I think it be best that I remain as impartial as possible. The history is there to be researched if you like.

P.S.: Afton, steadishots.org is a really great site! I'm only waiting for more work of Joerg Widmer who did some mindblowing operating on a German feature called "The Promise" (1995) original Title: "Das Versprechen" where he got the first and only bavarian film award for Steadicam work.

Thanks for the good words! Yes, I know of Jorg. I've got one of his shots from "Faraway, So Close" on the site. Amazing. If you have any others, you can upload them yourself (anyone can, for that matter). Just click on the "Contribute" link and follow along. I very much welcome input from others.

Glad you like it!

Best,
Afton

Priyesh P.

07-09-2007, 06:53 AM

Yes, that would be it, although that conflict was created independent of Will. I've retyped what I wanted the next few sentences to be several times, but I think it be best that I remain as impartial as possible. The history is there to be researched if you like.

Thanks for the good words! Yes, I know of Jorg. I've got one of his shots from "Faraway, So Close" on the site. Amazing. If you have any others, you can upload them yourself (anyone can, for that matter). Just click on the "Contribute" link and follow along. I very much welcome input from others.

Glad you like it!

Best,
Afton

Oh, I didn't intend to imply that Will started it (I've followed that giantic thread on the steadiforum).

That shot of Joerg you mentioned is absolutely awesome, I've just checked it again. I'll try to get my hands on that other shots of him, I hope it's available somewhere. Besides that your site is quite complete. The Abyss-shots, Fight Club and many more from the very early days belong to my personal favourites.

Regards,

Priyesh

Priyesh P.

07-09-2007, 07:01 AM

AftonGrant

07-09-2007, 07:59 AM

Oh, I didn't intend to imply that Will started it (I've followed that giantic thread on the steadiforum).

Yes, I know. I was just trying to clear anything up for anyone that might not know the story.

Simon Blackledge

07-09-2007, 09:07 AM

Apparently we just used one on latest shoot for a commercial and it worked very well... I was away but the shot looks great.

s

Brian D. Goff

07-09-2007, 09:07 AM

Brian, is this device an electrical / electronical controlled one?

It has a controlknob (just like a zoom rocker). So when you start going from hi-to low, you need to spin the camera with the rocker. This works realy good and has the advantage, that you can position the camera angle for all kinds of shots. Also you don't need to "push" the Rig away to do the spin - this is less tiring, because the Rig stays more or less at your normal operating position.

Priyesh P.

07-09-2007, 09:17 AM

It has a controlknob (just like a zoom rocker). So when you start going from hi-to low, you need to spin the camera with the rocker. This works realy good and has the advantage, that you can position the camera angle for all kinds of shots. Also you don't need to "push" the Rig away to do the spin - this is less tiring, because the Rig stays more or less at your normal operating position.

Yes, that was the disadvantage I've seen in the Alien / Alien Revolution, their low-to-high mode and vice versa functionality is next to useless in tight spaces, in these cases it's "only" increasing horizon steadiness.
But your system requires quite some intervention from the operator, right?
I mean one has to have a good estimation of the speed required to flip the yoke in sync, if I understood properly.

Brian D. Goff

07-09-2007, 09:30 AM

But your system requires quite some intervention from the operator, right?
I mean one has to have a good estimation of the speed required to flip the yoke in sync, if I understood properly.

That's correct. I used to do tv shows, were I had to zoom and pull focus on my own - It took some practicing time, but I got pretty good at it. The "360 Xtreme" is quite simular. It isn't easy, but it also is not as hard as it looks.

Priyesh P.

07-09-2007, 09:33 AM

OK, thanks for the info!

Stephen Gentle

07-10-2007, 03:36 AM

Wow... This rig looks incredible.

Jeff Kilgroe

07-10-2007, 08:24 AM

I would love to take this rig for a spin! Wow.

Is there any place that rents one of these? I know it would take some getting used to and be hard to just rent and use, but I'm anxious to try one.

AftonGrant

07-10-2007, 09:57 AM

I would love to take this rig for a spin! Wow.

Is there any place that rents one of these? I know it would take some getting used to and be hard to just rent and use, but I'm anxious to try one.

No, as far as I know they are all owned and operated by individuals. They themselves might rent them out, but I would be surprised if they let them out to anyone that is not an experienced Steadicam operator. "Hard to just rent and use" is an understatement. Assuming you were able to set it up successfully, anyone without experience in the rig would likely injure themselves, and perhaps damage the expensive equipment. I wouldn't even be comfortable borrowing one for a day of shooting without a few days of practice first.

If you really want to try one, see if you can befriend an owner/operator. I'm sure they'd let you try it on for free under supervision. If you have a shoot for which you think you might like to use the AR, you would get far better results, and probably save money in the long run by simply hiring someone for the day.

Tom Lowe

07-10-2007, 02:49 PM

Very awesome! I can think of a lot of shots I'd love to try out with it.

Paul Moss

07-11-2007, 12:16 AM

This rig is awesome......
A good mate of mine here in OZ has bought one (www.ajrevolution.com), and i was lucky enough to use it on a music video with him only a few weeks ago & do some testing of the rig with him.

Wow what a time saver, just being able to go from normal to low mode in a blink is an amazing time saver on set, let alone all the new possibilities for creative shot making......i loved it...!

We have TED coming down here to Oz next week to visit the SMPTE exhibition and to put on a demo & play 'Crossing the Line" at the Australian Cinematographers Society branch here in Sydney, and I'm trying to organize with my mate to get the RED demo camera on his MK-V Alien rig while TED is here......
we'll keep you updated with our progress & hopefully get some pictures...
Paul

Brian D. Goff

07-11-2007, 07:36 AM

A short demo clip done with the ActionCam "360 Xtreme" is now online:

http://actionproducts.ch/en/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=32&Itemid=85

It's not a "master piece", it was the result of my first 1h with the proto type mashine. I think it shows what is possible and with a little more practice, it will be a great add-on to any stabilizer system.

enjoy

Tom Lowe

07-11-2007, 08:52 AM

man, these hi-low steadicams present so many great opportunities for shots.

chuck colburn

07-11-2007, 08:58 AM

Hey Brian,

Are you bringing/sending one of those for the L.A. Red test?

Costelloe Michael

07-11-2007, 10:40 AM

Guys,

For all those who profess to want to try one of these, now is your chance!

Mk V have a workshop running next week in the UK, which I was hoping to attend but can't due to pressures of work. There are two days familiarisation, two days advanced and the final day of A-R.

Do the course and you can rent the rig in the UK or buy it abroad!

Mike Costelloe

No affiliation to MkV whatsoever, I think Howard is running the course personally, so good luck, he talks underwater! You have been warned!

Brian D. Goff

07-11-2007, 10:44 AM

Hey Brian,

Are you bringing/sending one of those for the L.A. Red test?

No, the "360 Xtreme" is now in production, but will not be ready until mid september. I will have a "RED edition" Actioncam at the RED test.

James T Mather

07-11-2007, 11:37 AM

Brian,

Great rig BTW - A couple of questions - does the rig keep the horizon level and 2. whats the price (I have a master series (will it dock with that?) - Thanks -

thomas english

07-11-2007, 11:41 AM

Yes, the mk-v AR is a fantastic system. I love it! It works impeccably well. The RED camera would work well in it in theory, the lighter the camera the larger your gimble to camera distance giving you more flexibility for shots. Although around a month ago I was helping on John Wu s new feature film "the battle of red cliffs" where they are making extensive use of the AR with an ARRI LT.

I have never seen this action cam 360. interesting, although all the jobs I have shot so far on the AR it would not have been possible to use the action cam unit simply because of the overall footpint amongst other things, however I shan t knock it until I have tried it but I can t see it working somehow, how do I trim for head room? hmmm . I will have to have a go ... simple ... at the moment I can t seem to get my head around using it.

With regards to the master rig docking, you really need to email howard and ask him, up until now it has not been possible due to wiring and lack of modulability of the master. You can easily use a mk-v nexus sled on your master arm and vest

Mk-v have some other great lightweight rigs that will also work well with the RED camera.

check out my showreel on the AR on www.thomasenglish.co.uk/ar and off course check out www.mk-v.com

Brian D. Goff

07-11-2007, 12:57 PM

Brian,

Great rig BTW - A couple of questions - does the rig keep the horizon level and 2. whats the price (I have a master series (will it dock with that?) - Thanks -

Thanks:biggrin: The Rig does not keep the horizon level on it's own - you have total control, so it's up to the operators skills.
-The price will be approx. 3500.- USD
-You can mount it on a master series

Brian

Brian D. Goff

07-11-2007, 01:04 PM

I have never seen this action cam 360. interesting, although all the jobs I have shot so far on the AR it would not have been possible to use the action cam unit simply because of the overall footpint amongst other things,
[/url]

Hi Thomas

The photos show a fully extended version of the ActionCam with the "360 Xtreme" on it. You can make the system smaller. We have a demo video, were I move into a small elevator and pass through doors with the "360 Xtreme" configuration with no problem. The shot is not a master piece, but considering it was my very first hour with the rig, I think it demonstates well what can be achieved.

Clip: http://actionproducts.ch/en/index.ph...32&Itemi d=85

Regards
Brian

HJS-RED

07-11-2007, 01:10 PM

Hi Guys

The MK-V AR and RED are made for each other.
We have been in talks with RED re various uses....

We also do the manual Revolution system that works with all systems (Master, PRO etc.)- this has been a product for the last few years too.

If anyone would like to know about the MK-V AR System and M-R (Manual Revolution system) please email me off forum - howard@mk-v.com

All I can say is watch this space...

All the best
Howard J Smith MK-V
2x RED owner

www.mk-v.com
howard@mk-v.com

Priyesh P.

07-11-2007, 01:39 PM

mcguire

07-11-2007, 02:53 PM

Hi guys, I'm looking forward to working with the Red as you all are.
I can see countless opportunities with the camera.
I know alot of DP's are sweating with anticipation!

With regards to the AR, yes it works, yes there are issues regarding 'none of my business!' :angry03: and yes I've been very busy working with it.
I've completed 3 features with the rig and am about to check out 'Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix', in which I shot pretty well most of the sequence pre the wizards fight, 57 takes every single shot size conceivable at least 12 complete 360's 3 pages of script and an Arri LT. A Supertechno crane sat waiting to take over the rest of the dialogue but David Yates decided to run with the AR as it was giving him exactly what he needed.
Also, its featured on 'Amusement' - New Line and 'Whiteout' - Dark Castle.

I'm trying to keep my website uptodate with new footage and photos; check out www.ar-mcguire.com

Looking forward to shooting a 'Nike' spot with the AR over the next 2 weeks, the RED would be superb!

Best Chris McGuire

mcguire

07-11-2007, 08:26 PM

Just seen the movie... David Yates did an superb job! some great work right across the board.

Best Chris

T. Glen Phelps

07-11-2007, 09:28 PM

Chris,

Dude, welcome to reduser.net. It's fantastic to see you here. I'm glad to see you (the most experienced AR operator in the world) chime in on this tread. I don't know if you remember, but we met at Cinegear. I,m the Air Force pilot from Rosamond. We must get together for some testing when I get my RED cameras. I have your phone number and I'll give you a call.

For everyone else, If you have any questions about the AR system, Chris is the man.

Tracy

Jeff Kilgroe

07-11-2007, 09:38 PM

I would love to get my hands on an AR system and learn how to use it... But I'm only a so-so steady operator as it is and don't have the budget or projects to justify jumping into such a setup. ...For now, anyway.

Glad you stopped by, Chris. I can't wait to see footage from a RED flying around on the AR.

T. Glen Phelps

07-11-2007, 09:40 PM

Howard,

It's good to see you on this forum. I'm very interested in your AR system. I saw it demonstrated at Cinegear and got a chance to "fly" it. I was very impressed. I've see no other system with the capabilities of your AR system. I look forward of seeing some spectacular footage shot with a RED camera on an AR Revolution.

Stephen Gentle

07-12-2007, 06:02 AM

Just a little question: how do you focus a camera on one of these?

AftonGrant

07-12-2007, 07:05 AM

Just a little question: how do you focus a camera on one of these?

Just as you would on a Steadicam or jib or other remote camera system. The AC has wireless control over the focus.

Priyesh P.

07-12-2007, 11:11 AM

second try: why is it called manual revolution? Sounds like you have to keep a steady horizon by yourself...(that's definately not the case, right?)

mcguire

07-12-2007, 11:27 AM

The M-R is the Manual Revolution, this is purely the roll cage that enables you to flip the rig into Low-mode quickly and time efficiently - it's without the technology to keep the camera stabilised.

If you go to the MK-V website all the information is available; www.mk-v-ar.com

Best Chris.

HJS-RED

07-12-2007, 01:18 PM

Hi Glen / Guys

It is good to be on here - Glen nice to met you at the show.

Re the MK-V A-R system - This is the fully stabilized 'Auto - Revolution' - Flag ship system. (works Only with the MK-V Nexus)

The MK-V P-R is the 'Powered-Revolution' this also can be used on Any Steadicam™ type system. Or for 3rd axis on a head or Motion control system.

The MK-V M-R is the 'manual- Revolution', the original concept - a circular low mode cage, light weight to work with all the Big film cameras, 35mm, 16mm, HD etc. down to HDV etc.

Both the M-R and P-R can be up graded to a full A-R system.
I hope this all makes sense.
ALL of these systems will work Very well with the RED.

Chris has a rather good website - www.ar-mcguire.com

If anyone has a good idea or concept they would like to us do with the AR & RED - Please email me off forum - howard@mk-v.com
I will think of a suitable prize for the best one!

All the best
Howard J Smith - MK-V

www.mk-v.com

dalemccready

07-12-2007, 01:44 PM

I'd followed the AR through the forums before we bought our rig a number of years ago. I've always been interested in it but had balked a little at the price. Personally I think it's great, but do believe very strongly that a modular roll system to add to existing rigs - whatever brand they are - would be great, and perhaps just as revolutionary (maybe not in the physical sense).

Maybe a 15 degree cage similar to that on the Libra remote heads. Just enough to be able to set your horizon actively and then operate as per normal but being able to forget about the micro tweaks for horizon and worry more about the macro tweaks to make the shot work.

i know I and a few operators I talk to would buy that immediately. But it'd have to be at a reasonable cost. Some of us have invested heavily in systems that aren't MK-V.

That said, I'd seriously look at the AR if I were going to get a whole new rig.