640gb red drive

[Jarred Land]

Moore's law has caught up to the RED DRIVE.... Starting Monday all RED DRIVEs shipped will have a 640GB capacity... Same Price as before ( $900 )

All customers with the 320GB on backorder will automatically be changed to the 640GB version, and hopefully shipped next week.

Just a heads up :)

[Birns and Sawyer]

Sweeeeeeeet.

(reduser requires 10 characters, sorry for the excessive 'e's)

[Kwan Khan]

wow....... Hold up!
What 'bout us... who have/has 320gb... Can it be replaceable/upgradable to 640gb?

[Ron Marvin]

Murphy's law has caught up to the RED DRIVE.... Starting Monday all RED DRIVEs shipped will have a 640GB capacity... Same Price as before ( $900 )

All customers with the 320GB on backorder will automatically be changed to the 640GB version, and hopefully shipped next week.

Just a heads up :)

Yes, but aren't you referring to Moore's law?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore's_law

I certainly hope it isn't Murphy's law! ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murphy%27s_law

[Andrew Walker]

640GB is cool to have. But I have only filled up my Red Drive to 75% once. I'm waiting to get anymore media until more specs for Epic come out. I just want to make sure that everything is fast enough for the increased data rates.

[Jonathan Stevenson]

Man, this is going to excite/ piss off a lot of folks. I, for one, am an excited folk :-)

[Jason Diamond]

yes is there any "upgradey" style for current 320gb's?

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Just in time for the new compression rates? Care to share the max write speeds? :lipsrsealed:

[pliny]

Hm, so at 2k I could roll for ... roughly 24 hours?

[Zakaree Sandberg]

Man, this is going to excite/ piss off a lot of folks. I, for one, am an excited folk :-)

not really...

640 is an excessive amount of storage for the camera..

one would be certifiably insane to load up a drive to its max...

I shoot down to 90-75% full...

I dont dip into more than that on the red drive.

[gdv]

I wouldn't give directors 640GB. I try make them threat the Red format as film and not as video where we insert a tape and just roll.....:emote_headwall:

[Jarred Land]

heh heh heh your right Ron... my bad :)

There is no current upgrade path for the 320gb drives.. but I will look into it.

[mikeburton]

not really...

640 is an excessive amount of storage for the camera..

one would be certifiably insane to load up a drive to its max...

I shoot down to 90-75% full...

I dont dip into more than that on the red drive.

Totally agree! Unless there was a write speed boost that accompanied this new 640GB drive I don't think I would want to put this into a productions hands. One of the first things I discuss with the 1st AC is when to dump a mag at a given percentage. I don't like to dip below 80% if we can help it at any given time and especially after lunch leading into hour 12. Could you imagine a 600GB dump at the end of the day? :ohmy:

[Chris Parker]

write speed is the key....for next gen cameras...

[Roberto Lequeux]

You never know what you will need so double the capacity is nice to have. Has it been tested with RC250? :)

[Zakaree Sandberg]

I don't like to dip below 80% if we can help it at any given time and especially after lunch leading into hour 12. Could you imagine a 600GB dump at the end of the day? :ohmy:

I would kill myself!!!!

[Zakaree Sandberg]

I wouldn't give directors 640GB. I try make them threat the Red format as film and not as video where we insert a tape and just roll.....:emote_headwall:

very very very true!!!!

ive been on sets where the director will just NOT CALL CUT!!

camera keeps speed and i keep sweating bullets.

those are also the shoots that production gives you the least amount of backup drive space to work with. nightmare

[Eirik Tyrihjel]

I see the point about not shooting excessivly, but if you are shooting a live show, which depending on a lot of things can often close in on 3 hrs it´s nice to know there is plenty of space and no need to worry.

I welcome 640Gb drives, and see the use for them.

[Jarred Land]

for you guys that are sweating over the new size (Murphy's law, someone is always going to complain no matter what we do :) I am sure there are plenty of 320gb owners that will trade you theirs for your 640gb version, if it really bothers you that much :)

[martinnoweck]

24h of 2k is an interesting thought!

but the day to day reality is we almost never went beyond 150GB on any job (regardless of resolution)

i hope this thread won't fill up with all kind of crazy update wishes ...

regards,
martin

[mikeburton]

for you guys that are sweating over the new size (Murphy's law, someone is always going to complain no matter what we do :) I am sure there are plenty of 320gb owners that will trade you theirs for your 640gb version, if it really bothers you that much :)

I don't think we are complaining about RED making improvements upon their product line. I for one welcome that kind of innovation and change.
From a DIT perspective, more media COULD potentially mean more hours after wrap hanging out in the dark. But hey, its all about managing and optimizing your workflows to avoid those scenarios.

Don't take it as a knock to RED, just a bunch of DIT's sweating a little at the scenarios that could arise as a result of your genius work to forever improve upon your product line.

[Jay A. Kelley]

I am very happy with the larger drives.. I require no upgrade "deal" I will still use my 320s and also these new ones!
Jay

[Casey Green]

Cool, Jarred. Thanks for keeping the price the same.

I have a couple of thoughts on this. First off, 640GB is quite a bit of footage to "risk" on one drive, but it definitely opens up some possibilities that were limited before for certain shooting situations (documentaries, nature/wildlife). One does not NEED to use the entire space anyway. It just gives you more options. It's all about proper management. Good work.

One thing I think this is very good news for is the upcoming release of Scarlet and EPIC. When we start dealing with 5K and 6K, I'm sure people will be very happy that 640GB REDDRIVES are already here (even if an adapter is needed and lower RECODE data rates are required).

:-)

A couple of questions:

1) Can RED mark these drives with some sort of label stating they are 640GB so they are easy to differentiate in the field? (similar to how the REDRAM drives are grey, maybe these can get an added 640GB sticker or engravement on them?)

2) Are these drives any faster during transfers?

Thanks again for your continued improvements to the program.

[Mike Thorn]

I'd like to second Casey's request.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Yay!!!

But I'm not so excited about the capacity. I always take a break and offload the current RED Drive every 20-30 minutes of shooting anyway. I don't usually delete anything off of it, but keep the backups rolling, just in case. It's a robust little drive, but mechanical HDD's in a RAID-0 scare me.

What I'm excited about is the increased density of the drives and hopefully that translates to faster performance for quicker offloads (uh, if connected via SATA) and better write times for more options on the upcoming cameras.

Jarred, you forgot to announce that the RED RAM has been lowered in price to $2500 and now has 256GB capacity. Hehehe...

[Vigna Raajan]

We just got ours couple of days back. Infact, not even started using it. Guess we should have waited.

[Jerrod Cordell]

You also have to remember, we're going to be having 5K, 6K, 9K, and 28K cameras over the horizon. 640 GB is very necessary with the higher file sizes.

[Andrew Walker]

Yay!!!

But I'm not so excited about the capacity. I always take a break and offload the current RED Drive every 20-30 minutes of shooting anyway. I don't usually delete anything off of it, but keep the backups rolling, just in case. It's a robust little drive, but mechanical HDD's in a RAID-0 scare me.

What I'm excited about is the increased density of the drives and hopefully that translates to faster performance for quicker offloads (uh, if connected via SATA) and better write times for more options on the upcoming cameras.

Jarred, you forgot to announce that the RED RAM has been lowered in price to $2500 and now has 256GB capacity. Hehehe...

See now that info about the RED RAM is some news. That makes me way more excited than the upgrade to the RED Drive.

[dino g]

ill trade any new owners...i have 4 320 drives...pm me if you are unhappy with your 640 g drives. ill pay shipping.

[Brent@RED]

1) Can RED mark these drives with some sort of label stating they are 640GB so they are easy to differentiate in the field? (similar to how the REDRAM drives are grey, maybe these can get an added 640GB sticker or engravement on them?)
.

They will be marked as 640GB, yes. Serial number label that includes drive capacity.

BC

[Deanan]

One advantage to the bigger drive is that if you offload at the same frequency as you normally do, you don't have to reformat for twice the duration. That means you have more time for footage to go through the workflow before you have to erase media. Import thing is to have enough media to cycle frequently.

[Steve Freebairn]

Could you imagine a 600GB dump at the end of the day? :ohmy:

Yeah, but can you imagine the overtime on a union gig for the 5 extra hours it would take r3d data manager to copy that :)

[Zakaree Sandberg]

for you guys that are sweating over the new size (Murphy's law, someone is always going to complain no matter what we do :) I am sure there are plenty of 320gb owners that will trade you theirs for your 640gb version, if it really bothers you that much :)

hehe not complaining.. just the opposite.. someone stated that alot of people (current raid owners) would be upset..

def not upset one bit.. in fact the new raids are PERFECT for live events and such:)

[Antonio Forjaz]

I am happy, I just bought my RED, it is in the mail, on its way to me here in Mozambique, Africa, and to think I was disappointed that the RED DRIVE I had ordered was not included in the shipment, and now I know why, UUUUPPPPIIII, double the memory, I had nearly bought two 320 GB drives, then I changed my mind and got one 320GB and two 16GB CARDS.
Never been so happy to have a delivery delayed....

[Cüneyt Kaya]

for you guys that are sweating over the new size (Murphy's law, someone is always going to complain no matter what we do :) I am sure there are plenty of 320gb owners that will trade you theirs for your 640gb version, if it really bothers you that much :)

hahahaha post of the day

[Eirik Tyrihjel]

I am sure there are plenty of 320gb owners that will trade you theirs for your 640gb version, if it really bothers you that much :)

My two drives are up for that challenge! One of them no longer accepts power through the firewire 800, but I will not hold that against anyone who wants to trade with me ;-)

[Jeff Kilgroe]

See now that info about the RED RAM is some news. That makes me way more excited than the upgrade to the RED Drive.

Sorry, I was kidding... I wish it were true.

[Brigham Edgar]

I can't believe people are not happy about an essentially 'free' upgrade to accessories at the same price. Forget the whole ....ooohh it's too much data to risk....do what you do and just see this for what it is, an upgrade on the accessories and keeping the price the same.

By the way, i have two 320gb drives ready to swap with the 640gb so you don't have to worry about having too much storage space:) PM and they are yours, i'll even pay the shipping from OZ!

[Stephen Lovett]

I'm with you Brigham,

This is nothing but good news.

Even if you are only going to use a portion of the capacity, the fact that the platters will be using less of their area to store the same amount of data means that the space that you do use will occupy a "better" location on the disk (think near the edge of the platter where rotational speeds are higher.)

This means that all things being equal, on the 2.5" drives, the larger drive will give you faster speeds.

This holds true even when things are not equal.

I did some test for my mini arrays that I've built to provide top flight DIT service, and I consistently saw better throughput on a 500GB 2.5" 5400 rpm drives than I did on a 320GB 2.5" 7200 rpm drives, which many would find counter intuitive.

Nothing but good news, and if you put a piece of camera tape over the serial number and don't mention the higher capacity....

Thanks again to the Red team!

:smiley:

Steve

[Vico Martin]

:attention9ha:

Thanks Red Team!!!

One more time you make my day! :cornut: This ups really never end???. Congrats!

this kind of business will conquer the world. One more time, thanks :001_tt1:

[Shawn R]

What is the make and model of the new drives in the Raid?

[Joseph Ward]

I'm glad to here you guys are increasing memory on all fronts.:thumbup1:

[Jason Diamond]

I'd be more than happy to swap my 2 x 320gb's for anyone's 640gb's. but somehow i don't why anyone would do that. but i'm willing if you are ;)

[Robert Frank]

Moore's law has caught up to the RED DRIVE.... Starting Monday all RED DRIVEs shipped will have a 640GB capacity... Same Price as before ( $900 )

Any chance of Moore's law being applied to lowering the price of a 320GB Red Raid? Say $399?

Why not give folks a choice? If a 320GB Red Raid were available there is a good chance you have some customers ordering multiple units. I know I would.

[sander kamp]

Now please RED, make it possible to make multiple projects on one drive. The biggest problem I have with large red drives is that there is no structure on it. If for every drive change, scene change or new shoot you could just make a new .RDM folder instead of formatting the drive that would a lot better.

PLEASE!

[Pawel Achtel]

Uhhh, that's what doctor ordered. Nice one :hurray:

[Zakaree Sandberg]

we are directing a feature film right now and are shooting 640gb+ every day until late july

holy crap!

[Shawn R]

I'd still like to know the make and model of the drives.

[NormLi]

I too will swap my two 320GB for two 640GB drives if anyone wants to for some reason! I pay for shipping. PM if this swap interests you.

Thanks,

Norm

[Meryem Ersoz]

:banghead:hard to believe that anyone would waste a single breath complaining that you've made their job harder by increasing storage space...

this is a fantastic upgrade.

my only question would be: is it possible to make a smaller or thinner, more lightweight drive with high/320 gb capacity at the original price point (or cheaper)? taking off the weight can be just as meaningful as much as longer record times...

thanks for the continuous enhancements.

[Stephen Lovett]

Meryrm,

This isn't likely to happen, as the components (the 2.5" drives) are the same size and weight.

I like your thinking though.

Steve

[Martin Weiss]

I would buy a used - but fully working - 320gig RED drive for $450.

If there is another one like me, we could buy it for $900 and you could get yourself a new 640gig drive?

(BTW, in the RED store, it still says 320gig http://www.red.com/store/501001 )

[Dane Brehm]

Perfect! I'm sure Producers will soon try and give me a line like

"Don't you only need 1 drive now? We can roll for 4hrs right?"

I hope the FW800 ports have a lower failure rates to:)

Thanks for the upgrade guys!

[CJ Roy]

Are these 5400 or 7200 rpm drives inside? Just curious.

[Michael McLaughlin]

A lower priced hard drive would be great for those of us that are having a bit of a problem in this economy.

My lack of funds is not RED's problem by any stretch... it just would allow me to strech the dollars I have right now.

A price of 425 sounds perfect, 500 hits the max of what I can do right now. And to be honest that extra 100 for the cable probably puts it over what I can do.

I hope I am not being unreasonable proposing such things.

More of just giving some inside calculations of what is going on in my head right now, and proabably some others.

[JanneJansson]

The exchange rate from $ to my currency (skr) have also made a huge impact in my spending. Everything is almost TWICE the price as last summer. So far this year we have just invested 1% in new gear from US, as from last year. All other stuff is home grown for now.

..so every little price/performance improvement is greatly appreciated :)

[Andrew Wilding]

Wow. You guys are awesome. Im so glad I haven't received my drive yet!

Red never ceases to amaze me.

[Radim Schreiber]

AWESOME!!!!!!!!!! I'll need a dual battery setup.

[Stephen Lovett]

Hi folks,

As a heads up, the price difference between the two drive sizes is almost a rounding error, given the price of the Red-Drive.

for example, the branny new 500GB 7200 rpm drives from Seagate (arguably the most expensive / fastest non SSD Drive available in a 2.5" form factor today) is about $125.00 US.

http://www.centralcomputers.com/ccp71390--seagate-st9500420as-500gb-2-5--sata-7200rpm-16mb-st9500420as-drisea95002s.htm

The same model with 320GB capacity is about $110.00 US

http://www.centralcomputers.com/commerce/ccp70334--seagate-st9320421asg-320gb-2-5--sata-3gb-s-16mb--st9320421asg-drisea93203s.htm

Looking for about a $500.00 discount based on a less than $30.00 difference in parts costs seems pretty unreasonable to me.

(The delta is going to be smaller on both lower capacity drives, and in volume purchase, like those used in the Red-Drives)

I agree that digital storage is the area where Red's value proposition isn't as strong as it is in the vast majority of the product line.

(But here I think the larger gap exists on RedRam as Red CP units, as prices for SSD, SxS cards, and other CF media have plummeted)

Given the value proposition of the rest of the products, you won't hear me bitchin however.

Thus I find myself back at "Thanks Red team",

Steve

[Curran Giddens]

Given the value proposition of the rest of the products, you won't hear me bitchin however.

Thus I find myself back at "Thanks Red team"

Yeah. They gotta make $$ somewhere.

Thanks Red team!

[Pawel Achtel]

I would buy a used - but fully working - 320gig RED drive for $450.

If there is another one like me, we could buy it for $900 and you could get yourself a new 640gig drive?

(BTW, in the RED store, it still says 320gig http://www.red.com/store/501001 )

I would buy one too.

[shashbugu]

I wouldn't give directors 640GB. I try make them threat the Red format as film and not as video where we insert a tape and just roll.....:emote_headwall:

Why limit yourself to films limitations, express yourself with Reds unlimited potential

[Brent@RED]

RED-DRIVE 640GB live on RED.com: http://www.red.com/store/501004

Backorders for the 320GB RED-DRIVE will be automatically converted to 640GB orders and shipped accordingly. Shipments will begin tomorrow.

Happy Father's Day to the dads out there!

BC

[Roberto Lequeux]

I apologize, this must be the 10th time I ask the same basic question. I keep forgetting the average size of RC36.

How big is a second of 4k 2:1 24fps? Or how much 4k 2:1 24fps can you fit in one of these babies if you filled it up to say 75%?

I am asking cause I am planning on keeping the camera rolling 12hs a day. Just in case you know... maybe the grips do something funny and I might want to have that. :)

[Luis Otero]

heh heh heh your right Ron... my bad :)

There is no current upgrade path for the 320gb drives.. but I will look into it.

OK, take your time to think this throught... I always like the final outcome of your "...but I will look into it.":violin:

Regards!

[Mitch Gross]

I apologize, this must be the 10th time I ask the same basic question. I keep forgetting the average size of RC36.

How big is a second of 4k 2:1 24fps? Or how much 4k 2:1 24fps can you fit in one of these babies if you filled it up to say 75%?

I am asking cause I am planning on keeping the camera rolling 12hs a day. Just in case you know... maybe the grips do something funny and I might want to have that. :)

The 320G drive holds about 200 minutes, so the 640G will hold about 400 minutes. Not quite 24/7, just 6 1/2 hours is pretty nice on one drive.

[Justin Kirchhoff]

I have 3 RED Drives and they have been working great. No need for 640 right now, but it does sound tempting.

[Shawn Nelson]

great news!!

I am also interested in what it would cost to have my existing RedDrive sent in and the internal HDDs ripped out and replaced with 640s. I really don't care about the extra space per se, but since HDDs have a lifespan, every time I use the RedDrive it takes a toll on it. So getting new HDDs is a restart on the lifespan

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Upgrading RedDrives would be welcome at the right price. Can SSDs be swapped into the cases made for spinning media? Just wanted my head counted as interested, perhaps if there was enough of us it would make economic sense.

Peace - #19

[Shawn Nelson]

Upgrading RedDrives would be welcome at the right price. Can SSDs be swapped into the cases made for spinning media? Just wanted my head counted as interested, perhaps if there was enough of us it would make economic sense.

Peace - #19

I've been very tempted to do this myself, after all, the RedDrive is two drives raided together with some sort of controller, so theoretically you could just replace the HDDs with your own SSD

[ericyoung]

Someone tried 2x 256GB SSD and said it gave the "too slow" error. There is probably a firmware on the drivers or on the controller which says you can only use the allowable drives.

Most SSD drives are 2-3 times the speed of the regular, so it confuses me.


Remember SSDs are only faster when reading. Writing speeds are significantly lower.

[Steve Freebairn]

The difference between lowend SSDs and highend ones can be huge in write/read speeds. I'd be interested to hear if you took 2 highend SSDs like the one from the test and put them in there. Obviously that would void all kinds of warranties and I don't think it would be wise for "real work" but it'd be a great test. I don't think RED is really out there to gouge for media costs, I'm sure that after R&D and Assembly that they're not making a killing on drives. Personally, I think that the eventual 32 GB CF card and the dual slot recording on the next gen. cameras has solved my desire for the SSD drive.

[Jeff Coatney]

Is there any way to send data to two Red Raids simultaneously? Like if you're at a live event recording a 2 hours plus take. It would be nice to have a back-up or a clone of the take just in case.

[Lee Saxon]

Remember SSDs are only faster when reading. Writing speeds are significantly lower.

Only on some, especially the cheap ones. For example on Intel's drives, especially the E series, this is definitely not the case.

[M Hsu]

I'm also looking for a way to refresh the drives. I don't need more space, but I like to swap out critical components like drives at least every 2 years. It would be great if i could either just swap in new drives or send it to red for fresh drives.

[Tom Funk]

Will these new capacities are used on need any form of update?

Relatedly, if I were to, say, tinker with a Red Drive, and replace the spinning hard drives with a pair of SSD's ... they would be hella fast and immune to vibration-related dropped frames. The real question is whether the firmware of the camera would be confused when trying to format it or write to it. But if they would recognize and format the larger capacities without balking, perhaps this would work without the need for firmware changes.

If I buy a new larger drive, I may be tempted to fiddle with one of the older ones.

(Yes I acknowledge that I'm ignoring warranty issues.)
(Has anyone ever addressed this? Sorry if it's a regular discussion, there's just too much stuff on this site to really follow effectively. (Thanks for the crucial ordinance, btw, it helps!))

[Joel Kaye]

Will these new capacities are used on need any form of update?

Relatedly, if I were to, say, tinker with a Red Drive, and replace the spinning hard drives with a pair of SSD's ... they would be hella fast and immune to vibration-related dropped frames.

And couldn't you toss in 2 7200 RPM 320gig laptop drives in a current RED drive? I'd think the RAID is a controller board and any 2 sata devices should work. I've got a 640g RAID 0 in my PC laptop which does about 110MB per sec. writes. The drives are plenty fast enough.

[Tom Funk]

Will these new capacities are used on need any form of update?


I think that wins the best grammar of the decade award. Stupid laptop touchpads, I think the cursor jumped as I was typing and erased part of it - I meant something like ...
Will the cameras these new capacities are used on need any form of update?
LoL. Just didn't want anyone thinking I is a moh-ron. :blink: