RED 1080p 4:4:4 direct to HDcamSR tape?

[Jaime Vallés]

Just curious...

I'm personally going to shoot 4K Redcode RAW to CompactFlash cards for my future feature work. But many in the industry are jittery about the whole "no tape" thing. RED has Dual HD-SDI outputs for 1080p 4:4:4 RGB. Can one simply connect an HDcamSR tape deck and record full bandwith 1080p 4:4:4 HDcamSR directly to it?

If so, then why all the worries? A Sony F23 is a camera head with an HDcamSR deck clamped on top. Can't you do that with RED too? Record 4K Redcode to CF cards, while at the same time doing a 1080p tape backup to HDcamSR?

If you can, then who on earth would use an F23 (or any other pro camera)? RED would provide an instant archival tape copy at full STAR WARS 1080p 4:4:4 quality, with the luxury of a 4K master on a tapeless workflow. Insurance companies are happy with the tape backup, skittish producers are happy with a medium that is "proven" in the industry, and I'm happy with my direct-to-edit 4K master. To me, that is ideal.

Or am I missing some crucial piece of information?

Again, just curious. Have a nice day! :)

[Gavin Greenwalt]

You aren't missing anything.

Those who are afraid of leaving tape behind can feel free to continue to digitize all they want.

I for one love sitting in front of a Digibeta deck all day making sure there are no anomalies. It's how I would spend my 'perfect Sunday'.

[Brook Willard]

It should be a standard single- or dual-link HD-SDI connection... I see no reason why it shouldn't work.

[Jaime Vallés]

It should be a standard single- or dual-link HD-SDI connection... I see no reason why it shouldn't work.

Awesome.

So, RED should come out with the RED-HDcamSR-CAGE: A container for mounting the HDcamSR deck directly onto the body of a RED ONE. Poof! Instant F23, but for 1/8th the price!

[Jaime Vallés]

I for one love sitting in front of a Digibeta deck all day making sure there are no anomalies. It's how I would spend my 'perfect Sunday'.

ROTFLOL :tongue:

[mezmo]

Hi Jaime,
Don't think the first camera's will have this function? Could be wrong. Also I think you need additional outboard processing for RGB 444 required. A CCU
would be good too. Mini Dual HDSDI cables to deck a BIG problem on set with grips, dolly and lighting crew.
All will be revealed soon by those in the know.
Cheers Mezmo.

[kozmo]

You'll still need the SRPC-1 unit in addition to the SRW-1 tape drive. The F23 and Genesis cameras have the SRPC-1 electronics integrated into their bodies and it's a sizable package. So it will have to be used as a stand alone recorder.

Richard

[Jeff Brue]

Just got out of a viper against F23 demo we ran through here. Have to say the F23 does look rather nice. In regards to tapping the HD-SDI off of the camera it really depends on which demosaicing the red uses. A lot of the DDR vendors to get realtime on set playback from what I've seen from the D-20, Phantom or the Origin normally exhibits some moire thats not recorded in the RAW data.

It can be eliminated by using a more computationally expensive demosaic but really the only machine I've seen that come off real time is running something from iridias (gpu excellerated). I would any day put the viper or the F-23 HD-SDI tap off of any of the bayer pattern taps and I'd wager one of those cameras would win.

In any case thats not where red's strength lies, its in the fact that its recording to data. Now I just have to figure out a realistic after editorial pipeline as even running a DI/ Data management facility in hollywood the idea of having to send 48 MB frames off to vfx or DI intimidates me. I can handle it internally but firewire 800 drives just arn't going to cut it.

[Costelloe Michael]

Mini Dual HDSDI cables to deck a BIG problem on set with grips, dolly and lighting crew.


I shot last summer with an Arri D20 with this setup and everyone just gets used to it, yep even the grumbliest of grips! :biggrin:

It did however slow the shooting day down and you have to constantly think about things like power to the SRW deck etc etc. Onboard Flash mag was another option of course, but more expensive.

Mike Costelloe

[Chris Gearhart]

I shot last summer with an Arri D20 with this setup and everyone just gets used to it, yep even the grumbliest of grips! :biggrin:

It did however slow the shooting day down and you have to constantly think about things like power to the SRW deck etc etc. Onboard Flash mag was another option of course, but more expensive.

Mike Costelloe

I just shot a Viper setup on an SR field deck, and there was nothing that got me more excited to get my RED than that. My goodness what a pain. Yeah, everyone got used to it. I can get used to a headache that won't go away too.

I must say, my camera crew kept getting more and more impressed with Jim's vision. He's addressed every problem and inconvenience we experienced and added milk and honey into the mix.

Having said all that, I can see where an SR setup would be a safe bet for some folk, especially those who own a deck (poor soul). But never me again (at least on a Steadicam :biggrin: ).

[A. Bastaki]

whats up with tape... boy im glad im getting rid of tape. no more freggin dropped frames, no more oops my tape jammed, or the tape has my finger print on it.

sata raid - fibre optics - liveth long.
________
Yamaha rbx6jm history (http://www.yamaha-tech.com/wiki/Yamaha_RBX6JM)

[Christoffer Glans]

The day we can fit 1 hour of REDCODE RAW 4K on a CF card will be the day I celebrate my independence day (as a filmmaker) :D

[Jeff Brue]

Oh the data management nightmeres you're all about to have....Sorry if I can't help but cackle a little. I'll be around to help as much as I can. Guys this level of footage isn't easy.

[David Battistella]

The day we can fit 1 hour of REDCODE RAW 4K on a CF card will be the day I celebrate my independence day (as a filmmaker) :D

i just want to get to the day when we realize that inexpensive solid state media is actually more reliable and durable than tape.

A film production could purchase as many hundreds of these as needed and they would be the same archive as film or tape.

While going to the RED drives is great for long doco shoots and the like, the problem of where to store all of that data still persists.

We just need to become more confident with the digital media being offered to us.

Wouldn't the nicest workflow be?

1. Shoot to large capacity inexpensive CF cards.
2. Transfer the media from the card.
3. Do not reuse the card but keep it as an archive.(right now an 8GB is about 100$, but that is only going to plummet)
4. Master to HDCAM SR, .tga files on harddrive or LTO tape, or 4K/2K film transfers.

This might alleviate the jitters. I think that this is what the RED team are thinking too. With the cost of CF cards coming down and the capacity going up. We all stand to win in the long run.

David

[Christoffer Glans]

Yes, I was scared about working with HDD's before, but REDs CF port made me happy. CompactFlash is the future.
HDD's have moving parts, I don't like moving parts.

An example of thought:
A machine that has moving parts is set to work for an eternity
The machine will after a thousand years break, because the moving parts that worked together decayed in the process.
A rock on the other hand, will last much longer then the machine.
Imagine then that the rock has a painting on it, showing a blueprint of the machine.

I don't know what the painting is all about, but it was a nice touch of... something. :P

Anyway, the conclusion is that if the machine (HDD) have moving parts, it will most likely fail at some point, but a rock (Solid Media) will work much better and longer.
I think we will see compact flash HDDs in our computers in the future.
Then i can bash my computer when getting angry at it, without loosing any data :D

[Teague Kennedy]

Yes, I was scared about working with HDD's before, but REDs CF port made me happy. CompactFlash is the future.
HDD's have moving parts, I don't like moving parts.

An example of thought:
A machine that has moving parts is set to work for an eternity
The machine will after a thousand years break, because the moving parts that worked together decayed in the process.
A rock on the other hand, will last much longer then the machine.
Imagine then that the rock has a painting on it, showing a blueprint of the machine.

I don't know what the painting is all about, but it was a nice touch of... something. :P

Anyway, the conclusion is that if the machine (HDD) have moving parts, it will most likely fail at some point, but a rock (Solid Media) will work much better and longer.
I think we will see compact flash HDDs in our computers in the future.
Then i can bash my computer when getting angry at it, without loosing any data :D
This was like a deep thought from SNL. Nice.