Make that 7 stops...

[Jannard]

We are sure having fun around here. We skipped ISO 16000 and went right to ISO 32000... just for fun. You can debate all you want if you would accept this image or not. I wouldn't. But it demonstrates that there is no real adult supervision around here and that you can distress this camera quite a long way and it "keeps on ticking". Have fun with this one... we did.

Jim

http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/9_1184456573.jpg

[Oskari Sipola]

Holy shit :)

I could still see using this after converting to black and white, for shooting wildlife in the middle of the night (at summer there's always _some_ light here in Finland). Awesome.

No question there's latitude in that thing.

[Alex Boothby]

Ha ha... nutso.

[Pol Turrents]

how many light did you used in that shot?

[I Bloom]

Did you mean 32000 or 3200?

And will that be an option in the menus :ph34r::detective2::w00t:???

[Steven M. Bailey]

Paris Hilton could use this for her next home movie. Not the best use for a night vision camera, but holy crap, its the first that came to mind. She'd be better off to hire a gaffer but who really cares. 64000 tomorrow?

[Steve Freebairn]

Even if we wouldn't use it all the time, it will definitely be useful several times. Especially for Doc and Eng stuff! This camera keeps getting better and better.

[Jannard]

It was lit for T2 at ISO 250. This is shot is f22, or 7 stops under exposed- ISO 32000.

Jim

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Any chance we could see a 1 second H264 of that? Pleaseeeeeee. I'm curious to see what the noise characteristic is at that level of gain.

[Alex Boothby]

Even if we wouldn't use it all the time, it will definitely be useful several times. Especially for Doc and Eng stuff! This camera keeps getting better and better.

Don't forget your other options:
- 360 degree/open shutter (adds another stop)
- shoot faster fps and slow mo in post (12fps adds another stop)
- Keep a jar of fireflies on hand. :)

[Steven M. Bailey]

- Keep a jar of fireflies on hand. :)

There's a question for David Mullen;

How is the most effective way to light a scene with fireflies? How do I get them to disperse evenly for the right ambiance?:nerd:

[Alex Boothby]

And will that be an option in the menus :ph34r::detective2::w00t:???

You would probably keep a library of monitor LUT options on hand (which travel with medadata) such as:

- tungsten 250 ASA
- daylight 250 ASA
- florescent 250 ASA....
- tunsten 500 ASA (push 1 stop)
- tungsten 1000 ASA (push 2 stops)
- tungsten 2000 ASA (push 3 stops)
- tungsten 4000 ASA (push 4 stops)
- tungsten 8000 ASA (push 5 stops)

For RGB recording, one would hope that these same LUT settings would be baked in.... or something.

[Evan Owen]

Absolutely incredible... this really does blow away anything we've seen even from the RED in the past.

One thing I notice right off the bat is the strong horizontal line pattern near the top. Normally I wouldn't take it for much except that it's also slightly noticeable in the shot done at ISO 8000, which is a range some people might actually be tempted to use (I hope not too often!).

So is it FPN? Or something less fixable? I can tell from looking at the noise in this shot that alot has improved from the "Crossing the Line" prototypes, but there's still a bit of verticle banding to the noise pattern. Not completely random, but close...

Not that I'm complaining in the LEAST! My Canon 20D has many times this much FPN! This is just insane...

[david farland]

Jim,

You sound excited....so it must be good news!!

Well Done.....

What other existing camera ( or still camera) is that shot is comparative with?


There seems to be patterned noise...have you ideas on cleaning that up. Is it an easy or hard exercise to factory tweak the camera at the low end without losing data at the bright/mid range areas of the camera?

Do you think the sensor is the overriding bottle neck here...or can tweaks be still made elsewhere?

David

[Shawn Nelson]

Wow!!! So, how close is this to night vision?>

[Poi Boy]

If I was shooting at 32K asa !!! I would just add film grain an do a strange color grade or B/W. How cool is this ? can't wait to play with Red One.
Aloha
-A

[Ace]

Yay!

Can we do ISO 128,000 next!!

[Emanuel A.]

Can we do ISO 128,000 next!!L O L

[Gregory Karydis]

Many many years ago I recall my mother telling me I should eat carrots if I wanted my night-vision to improve.
So tell us Jim, how many carrots a day does it take for RED to go up to 32K? :)

[Gavin Greenwalt]

SD w/ advanced de-noise:
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n134/im_thatoneguy/noisydenoised2.jpg

Significantly better results could be achieved with a moving image but hell... that aint as bad as it could be.

[Matt Uhry]

Jim,

That's impressive, the camera is clearly going to rock out in low light. How about throwing on one of your primes and shoot some shots lit with a few candles? Or maybe some super clean night exteriors ( @1600asa ) T2.0. Those shots will be more representative of real situations.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

[Desert Rune]

That looks better than hypergain! :gun:

This camera might just make the best low-light HD camera for low light acquisition. (Downsample 4K to HD and run several de-noising algorithms.)

Now we just need RED to create Noct-like lenses with dinnerplate-sized optics for really ultra low light abilities. :)

[Oskari Sipola]

I could light a shot with my cellphone screen on this thing :)

Absolutely, with some T1.3 lenses, ISO32000 and then downconverted to 1080p with color correction and de-noising algorithms (which are the best ones, btw?) this is DA BOMB. I'm stunned.

[Ace]

The noise, depending on the movement pattern could look quite exquisite in its own. It can function as a cognitive visual device during some night shots, similar to Michael Mann's night shots in Miami Vice.

[Jannard]

We are shooting tests tonight in the dark... we'll keep you posted.

One thing missing is how incredible the image looks at ISO 500. I'll post one of those soon. I might even post just the blue channel.

Jim

[Jason Francois]

I'm embarrassed to say that I just wet myself.

I apologize, but I figured I could share since I feel like I know you all. :)

PS-Every time I see a new post like this my heart skips a couple of beats. It's like that first-love kind of thing. Very strange.

[JD Holloway]

Paris Hilton could use this for her next home movie. Not the best use for a night vision camera, but holy crap, its the first that came to mind. She'd be better off to hire a gaffer but who really cares. 64000 tomorrow?

One REALLY caring Gaffer here...

[R. Gonzales]

There's a question for David Mullen;

How is the most effective way to light a scene with fireflies? How do I get them to disperse evenly for the right ambiance?:nerd:

Diffuse the light with lets say... Silent frost??? maybe ?? :-)

[ChristopherKenworthy]

We are shooting tests tonight in the dark... we'll keep you posted.

One thing missing is how incredible the image looks at ISO 500. I'll post one of those soon. I might even post just the blue channel.

Jim

There is a real air of insanity about all this, and I absolutely love it. I keep trying to tell friends, strangers, anybody who'll listen how exciting this is - but they think we're a bunch of geeks. Can't wait for the night shoot results.

Can't wait to see an ISO 500 image. Anything vaguely real-world would be a delight now. Just a street at night, maybe? Moonlit forest? Whatever, I'm enjoying this.

[IAN SUN]

Jim, I'm popping a bottle of bubbly to the RED ONE right now.

Noire of course.

http://degustation.co.uk/shop/images/uploads/B7N_96.jpg

[Eugene]

We are shooting tests tonight in the dark...

I am sure everyone would like to see some shots of the Porsche 955 outside at night. Below are some low light shots of a Subaru. Lets see something similar.
http://www.subydude.com/subyslideshow/v/sdteamcars/dudes06sti/mile3176/
http://www.subydude.com/subyslideshow/v/sdteamcars/dudes06sti/stimorningsky/

[Brook Willard]

This is just hilariously great.

[Poi Boy]

Sorry Eugene, but it is 959, legend you know.. otherwise I wouldn't bring it up.
Aloha
-A

[number6]

I declare myself a genius... for buying this camera!

[Poi Boy]

No shit,huh ?
-A

[Casey Green]

It's great even being on the outside looking in... can't wait for being at LART and then later someday when I'm in the position to rent. This is just historic! thanks for sharing with us.

[Andrew Benz]

I declare myself a genius... for buying this camera!

Six, I think this should be in your signature, lol.

[Alexander Nikishin]

Mad Man!!! :w00t:

[Kevin Halverson]

...I might even post just the blue channel.

Jim

Now that is something I would be very interested to see. Time allowing, please do!

[Emanuel A.]

Six, I think this should be in your signature, lol.It wouldn't be so original at all, Andrew. :)

[Stephen Williams]

It was lit for T2 at ISO 250. This is shot is f22, or 7 stops under exposed- ISO 32000.

Jim

Hi Jim,

From Mr Stumps tests I always believed your sensor was faster than 250 asa, probably 320 or 500. What would be interesting is to see what 5 stops over looks like. As the dynamic range has increased since Frankie, it's possible that the native speed has also increased. It looks like a win/win situation to me.

Stephen

[Jeremy Hughes]

For that night shot Jim, have one at 5 lux. Shoot wide open at 24fps with 1/48th of a second shutter speed and every setting the same except for the ISO. And compare the dark ISO 250 to the bright ISO 32000.

I can't wait for the Mysterium upgrade. Shooting ISO 640,000 with as much noise as ISO 4000.

[number6]

Six, I think this should be in your signature, lol.

Good idea... that's how I would like to be remembered, for the present.





I declare myself a genius... for buying this camera!

[Adam Jeal]

'Sliced Bread 2.0' doesn't even come close to describing this camera! :w00t: :usd: :w00t: :usd:

[SF Geek]

Hi Jim,
I know you didn't post this image to answer questions that give you a headache but, what is the horizontal line near the top? I can understand the vertical banding from the amount of underexposure but the horizontal line is really pronounced.

[Jannard]

Hi Jim,
I know you didn't post this image to answer questions that give you a headache but, what is the horizontal line near the top? I can understand the vertical banding from the amount of underexposure but the horizontal line is really pronounced.

It is a bug running loose in the dsp chambers. We have assembled a posse to hunt it down and kill it. We take no prisoners.

Jim

[Adrian T.]

It is a bug running loose in the dsp chambers. We have assembled a posse to hunt it down and kill it. We take no prisoners.

Jim

:gun: Kill'em! Kill'em all! :gun:

[Antoine Fabi]

Well beyond my hopes...and it's 4K pixels...man... !!!!

But what's even better is your entusiasm and motivation.
The end of the engineering delay brought back a ton of energy.

Good to hear.
Cheers!

[Michael Brennan]

Jim is doing the right thing quoting sensitivity with 180 degree shutter to keep the comparisons on a level playing field.

But the 360 degree shutter is used frequently for night shots and sometimes the whole movie such as Collateral or drama such as James Joyce.

And 270 degree has a place too.

Should we say RED does 12 fps with 720 degree shutter :)

For night establishers with little movement the 360 degree shutter cannot be percieved.

When it comes to low low light there is usually significant mood and grain in play that is working with the narrative, an environment where 360 degree shutter isn't always out of place.

A few test shots bearing this in mind would be handy.




Mike Brennan

[Brook Willard]

It is a bug running loose in the dsp chambers. We have assembled a posse to hunt it down and kill it. We take no prisoners.

Jim

One of the Magic Pixies went AWOL?

[Greg Voevodsky]

The noise, depending on the movement pattern could look quite exquisite in its own. It can function as a cognitive visual device during some night shots, similar to Michael Mann's night shots in Miami Vice.

I agree It's either the new soft grainy Miami Vice look or super 8 film pushed to its limits. I'm glad to see we had the same thought. :-)

[Gavin Greenwalt]

One of the Magic Pixies went AWOL?


Dont' tell me they've gotten wind of the success RED is experiencing and have decided to unionize!


RED is on hold due to contract renegotiations with the RMPA Union (Red Magic Pixies of America)

- Jeem

[Matthew Verkler]

Let's see, my Sekonic goes up to 8000 ISO, so, hmm, make it 6 fps. Okay, I can still use my meter. Much more of this delectable dementia, and Red will have to make a meter too!

By the way, isn't some of the softness of the image due to f22?

I say keep pushing!

By the way, I use 360 shutter when I have to, but usually no more than 270, which is a nice compromise. With results like these, I see no reason to use anything more than a 180 shutter unless you really want the dreamy blurred motion.

My wife has long been jealous of my feelings towards Red; I'm just gonna keep this high ASA stuff to myself. What she doesn't know won't hurt her, will it?

(She just came in - the jig is up!__________________________________)

[Matthew Lochman]

It reminds me of a 16mm pinhole film I once saw...

[Michael Brennan]

I recall an impressive 66DB signal to noise being mentioned somewhere for RED, does the latest tweake improve on that?


Mike Brennan

[E.J. Sadler]

http://www.blueworldstudios.com/BlueMoose/ISO32K.jpg

Give me a 4K source for a 720p deliverable and this could be useable.

[Jannard]

Read Graeme's explanation of dynamic range and how it is measured. It is quite a bit different than useable range.

Jim

[Roberto B]

http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/9_1184456573.jpgis this the red one's image?.. bah!.. who will buy this web camera?..

ehehehehehehe

[Gavin Greenwalt]

http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/2742273/2/istockphoto_2742273_zombie.jpg

[Gordon Prince]

....?

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Zombie thread.

[Sanjin Jukic]

I'm impressed.

RED wins.

[Graeme Nattress]

That was old sensor board too, I think, and the horizontal line was fixed too.

Graeme