Ventilation?

[PaulClements]

I was just wondering what these side parts are, perhaps for venting hot air from the sensor/processor?

Might these represent a problem in sandy or dusty environments?

[Häakon]

Yes, they're for ventilation - they've been a part of the design for a long time now. Jim has said that the inner compartment is isolated from the vents, so the sandy environment is not an issue (I'm not sure how it can be isolated and still be vented at the same time, but at this point I'm not putting anything past them!) :)

[Brook Willard]

My understanding is that the inner area [boards, pixies] is sealed tight from the ventilated area. I expect that there are heat sinks that drop below from the sealed area into the ventilated area where airflow is assisted by fans. That's just me speculating.

[PaulClements]

Ah ok, cheers Häakon. I presume the heat of the sensor/processor passes onto a metal plain that diserpates the heat so it can exit through the sides (Or something like that)?

[Häakon]

Ah ok, cheers Häakon. I presume the heat of the sensor/processor passes onto a metal plain that diserpates the heat so it can exit through the sides (Or something like that)?
At this point, you know as much as we do as to how the internals work (and I'm not going to be the one to smash mine open to figure it out (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vy20b7pCcrY))! All I know is that the holes at the bottom are indeed for ventilation, and not an added accessory for grating cheese. :)

[Alex Boothby]

Dumb question - are oil based smoke machines ever a problem for electronic cameras?

[PaulClements]

Dumb question - are oil based smoke machines ever a problem for electronic cameras?

If they blow up next to them I'd have to say yes, otherwise I haven't a clue :)

Can't say I've ever been around one (At least knowingly) but if they make a smoke cloud that leaves any amount of oily residue then I wouldn't be too happy sticking my camera too close to it!

[chuck colburn]

Those vents are for the bilge pumps.

[PaulClements]

Those vents are for the bilge pumps.

And for storing sandwiches?

[HD Hildebrand]

All I know is that the holes at the bottom are indeed for ventilation, and not an added accessory for grating cheese. :)

No cheese grater??!!! Well this just might be the deal breaker.

[chuck colburn]

And for storing sandwiches?

Haha
On second thought it's best not to piss-off crafts services.

[Mark Thorpe]

My main concern is the potential for heat build up inside an air / watertight marine housing and the implications that may have on underwater shoot durations etc. I'm hoping Gibby will be testing that as and when testing gets underway with #8.

Cheers,
Mark.

[PaulClements]

Couldn't water cooling be used in the housing somehow? Lord knows you have an ample supply of the stuff around you.

[Mark Thorpe]

Nice idea but I'm not looking to water down my images, haha. I'll have to ask the people looking at designing the housings but also I guess waiting for the results from Gibby's tests would be the first prudent move.

Waiting with bated breath.

Cheers,
Mark.

[PaulClements]

There is a computer system that uses copper piping or something and it has cooling pads on the hottest parts of the processors, graphics cards etc, these pipes lead off to the casing of the PC which then dissepates the heat out.

If you could make it do the same thing so the heat goes to the outside of the housing the outside water would keep that pretty cool and hopefully allow the whole thing to run coolly.

But like you say, best to wait for the tests first :)

[chuck colburn]

The Cray computers use to be built in the round and used liquid nitrogen (?) supplied by a big pumping apparatus in a seperate room to keep it cool. They also had a nice comfortable seat around the outside of the CPU . Don't ask how I know. lol

[Keith Nealy]

Yeah, I would imagine - good point. something to think about when doing music videos.

[Keith Nealy]

Good point...

On the other hand it may keep condensation down. But too much heat and you may need a pressure relief valve. All interesting issues I never had to deal with before. The tests will be very interesting.

[Evin Grant]

My main concern is the potential for heat build up inside an air / watertight marine housing.
Mark.

Mark, If you were able to touch any of the cameras set up at NAB you would have been very surprised at how cool they were, even after being on for 8 hours. They were significantly cooler than a Varicam or Cinealta that was left on for that amount of time. They were even cooler than my HVX after I left it on in the bag of a few hours once. I'd be very surprised if this was an issue.

[Unwounded]

has anyone heard anything about noise generated by it's ventilation system (fans)? Just wondering how it might affect audio?

[Evin Grant]

Inaudible, as far as I could tell.

[Häakon]

Inaudible, as far as I could tell.
Fortunately the RED booth at NAB was extremely quiet, which made testing a breeze... :tongue:

[Mark Thorpe]

I'd be very surprised if this was an issue.

Well I certainly hope thats the case, all sounds good. Thanks for pointing that out Evin.

Unfortunately I had too much going on here, what with the tropical Ocean lapping at my doorstep, the crystal clear waters enveloping my vision and nubile golden skinned maidens occupying my thoughts (don't tell the missus) to attend NAB this year. Maybe next time around.

Cheers,
Mark

[Alex Boothby]

has anyone heard anything about noise generated by it's ventilation system (fans)? Just wondering how it might affect audio?

I may be wrong, but I recall reading that the fans would turn on when the camera was not recording...? Don't know what that means for ENG guys or event shooters.

[Brook Willard]

AFAIK, the fans will deactivate during a take if possible, but if it's so hot that there's nothing to be done about it, the fans will place the camera's safety before your sound guy's sanity.

With regards to the sound of the fans, I never heard any at NAB [yes, even after the booth cleared out at the end of the day]. That's not to say that the fans are necessarily super quiet... the fans may not have been running for all I know... but I never heard any.

On a perfectly quiet sound stage? I'm willing to bet that the fans will be heard. I doubt they'll be loud and I honestly doubt that they'll run at all [considering that most sound stages are air conditioned].

This is all just wild speculation. We'll be putting the cameras through hell at the LART... we'll certainly keep our ears open.

But when it all boils down to it, the RED guys know what they're doing. They're not about to build a top-notch camera with all the bells and whistles... and a turbocharger blasting exhaust out the side. It just doesn't make sense. It's a company of filmmakers and ninjas.

[jbeale]

If you're shooting to a hard drive, I'd think the camera will not be completely silent regardless of any fan noise. Of course the drive housing can attenuate it a lot, if it's designed that way.

[Finner]

Dumb question - are oil based smoke machines ever a problem for electronic cameras?

Interior oil based smoke machines or "cracker smoke" are bad for a lot more then the camera. IATSE shoots banned cracker smoke a long time ago making water based the only option. If you are working around interior oil based smokers I would highly suggest reading up on the MSDS sheets on them as they are not something you want to be breathing in a whole lot. If you are talking exterior hessey smokers and gold smokers those oil based ones are fine outside. Just watch as the smoke from any smoker should be a white/grey color. If the smoke comming out is black then it is really bad shit and I personally would refuse to work on a set with smoke like that.

[Finner]

It's a company of filmmakers and ninjas.

I call BULLSHIT!! They may be filmakers but from the look of them at NAB none of them are ninjas. Not to mention I think the biggest size a ninja suit comes in is small so can you really see Jared pouring himself into that.

Now maybe a sumo I would believe. At 6'4" and 210 lbs of twisted steel and sex appeal I am not a small guy but Jared dwarfed me. So like I said my vote is for filmakers and sumo's.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

With regards to the sound of the fans, I never heard any at NAB [yes, even after the booth cleared out at the end of the day]. That's not to say that the fans are necessarily super quiet... the fans may not have been running for all I know... but I never heard any.

I seem to recall discussion on this before. And that it was said the fans would cycle off when shooting so as not to cause any noise interference. I could also see the RED Drive producing a small amount of noise.

[Eugene]

I recall reading that the fans would turn on when the camera was not recording

I spoke to Ted from Red, when he came to Miami. I asked about the vents. He said that the fans would run while not shooting. I don't remember what he said the fans would do while shooting, but they would either be off or very quiet.

Inside the Red One, i am guessing, there is a super computer. My Mac PowerPC G5 has a real quiet fan, untill it does work. Then the fan takes off and sounds like a jet engine. All that is not a problem for guys with the new cool running Mac Pros with Intel chips. I don't think The Red One will make much fan noise if it has good modern chips in it.

My old G-raid drives make some noise too. But the new G-drive minis don't have fans, so that is not a problem for them and will not be a problem for the Red drives.

Jim had a warning for rookies post. Maybe Jim should reassure you divers that the Red One will work in a sealed under water housing, or maybe he should give you a warning. If it gets too hot, I am sure some smart guy will design a housing that is cooled with its own oxygen tank or something.

[Finner]

Jim had a warning for rookies post. Maybe Jim should reassure you divers that the Red One will work in a sealed under water housing, or maybe he should give you a warning. If it gets too hot, I am sure some smart guy will design a housing that is cooled with its own oxygen tank or something.

I have done a fair amount of underwater 35mm work and have often had to cover hydraflex batteries with hand warmer hot packs to keep them from dying to quick. The water cools down the housing quite quick so I don't see that being a problem.

[Stuart English]

Suppress active cooling on record is available as an operational option for sound stage work, and underwater shooting is going to be fine.

Even tropical oceans act as a huge heat sink, especially if you thermally couple the camera's body to the underwater housing shell.

[Mark Thorpe]

I have done a fair amount of underwater 35mm work and have often had to cover hydraflex batteries with hand warmer hot packs to keep them from dying to quick. The water cools down the housing quite quick so I don't see that being a problem.

Ive never experienced an over heating problem in the past, I've heard of them happening but not to me. Then again I've never owned a futuristic, opposition melting chunk of camera wizardry either!!

Sure everything will be fine,
Cheers,
Mark.

[Jochen Schmidt-Hambrock]

That´s why I really hope that at the LART somebody point a mike at the camera (preferably with an active (writing) harddrive).

Jochen

[Steve Gibby]

Suppress active cooling on record is available as an operational option for sound stage work, and underwater shooting is going to be fine.

Even tropical oceans act as a huge heat sink, especially if you thermally couple the camera's body to the underwater housing shell.

Thanks for that info Stuart. My production partner (Sharkguy) will be using custom diving housings with his RED One cameras, but I'll also be using one of my REDs in a custom housing that is designed for surface zone shooting of watersports, thus it won't be submerged continually and deeply like one used for diving. Unless there's a thermocline situation, water cools progressively the deeper you dive, thus the heat sink effect on dissipation from the housing. With surface zone housings though, the heat sink effect is less. My surface zone housings are always powdercoated or painted in light colors to reflect sun heat. I also submerge them to arms length for cooling in between shots. By what you've said I'm assuming that cooling for a surface zone housing still won't be a problem with RED One. Thanks again for the added info...