Newbie alert

[Jamie Havill]

Hi guys,

Basically later this year I'm going to be undertaking shooting and directing a short film using a Red One. I've never had experience using it, and I'm only going to have a day MAX to use the camera before going into shoot.

The experience I do have is with a Sony Z7 HDV camera with a DOF adapter using Nikon primes. I know this is near irrelevent but I do have quite a bit of experience in this area and know what I'm doing.

My question is - is this feasible? I'm no dunce, but is it going to be possible to come storming in like this and shoot well with the Red? We're going to be using the Red along with Zeiss superspeeds if funding goes to plan along with all necessary accessories and a matte box.

Also regarding workflow; is it neccesary to do backups on set? I've shot solid state before and never backed up until after shoot, but is this definatly a wrong move with Red? Also, what would the workflow be from camera into an Avid based Windows machine (32 bit)?

Basically, I'm 21 years old and going to be new to all of this new Red technology and I just need some good honest advice. Any help is appreciated, a lot.

[Tai Wah Lim]

Hi guys,

Basically later this year I'm going to be undertaking shooting and directing a short film using a Red One. I've never had experience using it, and I'm only going to have a day MAX to use the camera before going into shoot.

The experience I do have is with a Sony Z7 HDV camera with a DOF adapter using Nikon primes. I know this is near irrelevent but I do have quite a bit of experience in this area and know what I'm doing.

My question is - is this feasible? I'm no dunce, but is it going to be possible to come storming in like this and shoot well with the Red? We're going to be using the Red along with Zeiss superspeeds if funding goes to plan along with all necessary accessories and a matte box.

Also regarding workflow; is it neccesary to do backups on set? I've shot solid state before and never backed up until after shoot, but is this definatly a wrong move with Red? Also, what would the workflow be from camera into an Avid based Windows machine (32 bit)?

Basically, I'm 21 years old and going to be new to all of this new Red technology and I just need some good honest advice. Any help is appreciated, a lot.

Jamie - just make sure you rent the gear from someone who already shot with the Red. Definitely need a D.I.T. experienced in on-set Red data wrangling to follow for at least the first two weeks. Lim

[Craig Parkes]

If you've only got a very short amount of time with the gear, then backing up on set becomes more vital, no? What if you drop a HDD, what if a card goes missing, what if something else goes wrong.

Let me give you an anecdote - I know of a 'professional' two day Red One Shoot in which the director was handed the external HDD from day one of the shoot to look over the rushes. There was no backup, and it was left on top of his computer that night. They shot the next day out, on the same drives that they had used the first day (i.e they were formatted) and brought more footage back to add to the rushes.

About then he knocked the first External HDD off the top of his computer, and the drive inside was destroyed.

They lost the entire first day's footage, which they could reshoot because they couldn't shoot out the second day. The entire production ended up having to be pulled and reshot because they couldn't reshoot stuff to match the second days footage as it was a semi - reality style shoot.

Back up your footage on set unless it's absolutely impossible to do so, it just makes sense.

[Jamie Havill]

Thanks guys.

In response to Tai Wah Lim theres no way we can afford a DIT. I wish, I really do, that we could but our budget as-is is teetering on a cliff edge. It's financed from family members, minor fund raising this is a really personal project.

I understand Craig about backup. Would a couple of Laptops be OK for this purpose, or is there an easier and better method?

You guys think it's actually going to feasible to pull this off?

[Tim Whitcomb]

Best thing you can do is spend A LOT of time on these board between now and then.
Read the manuals. etc.

But right here is ALL THE INFO you need. Including a great discussion recently on the difference between a D.I.T and a data wrangler.

But the RED is NOT a low budget camera by any means.

Spend the MOST time on Story... because at the end of the day, nobody gives a crap what it LOOKS like... they want a good story and many are told on lesser cameras.

good luck

[Ryan S]

Hi Jamie,

Welcome to the wonderful world of Red. You're going to have a blast.

First of all, let me tell you- the day my Red One arrived, the most complicated camera I had ever used was the Sony HDR-FX1. I had never even used a 35mm adapter. Two days later I started shooting a feature. As Tim said, If you spend a lot of time on this board, and learn the operations manual inside out, then you should be able to handle the camera in at least a technical sense. But that's only one aspect of using the Red. You need a DP with a good head on their shoulders to coax the best picture from this camera. I apologize if that's stating the obvious, but I have seen more than a few people who think they can just rent a Red One and their movie will look spectacular.

On-set backup is a must. I've never had a CF card or Drive fail, but I don't want to take the chance. If you don't have a laptop available to dump footage to, there are some interesting self-contained backup solutions out there for a range of prices.

I'm afraid I can't comment on using Avid- I only have experience with Final Cut, which Red footage works with wonderfully.

Good luck on your project! Ask lots of questions here, these folks are very helpful. And don't get discouraged!

[Florian Stadler]

If you don't have a data manager: Have a laptop and download your first drive at lunch to 2 hard drives. Start downloading your second drive 1.5 hours before the end of the shoot. Do not reformat drive # 1, but continue shooting on it as is, after you took note of # of clips recorded before lunch. When your done shooting, set the last drive up to download as you help everybody wrap (only the clips shot after you took off drive # 2, check your notes and your 2 drives). When you get home, store 1 (non-red) drive in your closet for safekeeping after you check that all the footage is indeed on that hard drive. Plug the 2nd one in your computer and render to Avid DnxHD files for editing in RedRushes. Go to sleep. Return the camera the next day before 10 if all the footage is there in the morning. As a backup you'll still have the original camera drives.

Don't do this on a commercial job when 100's of thousands of dollars are on the line. If it's your own money, this will work 99.998% of the time....

Good luck shooting, concentrate on the performances, the story, the mood and forget about all the technical stuff as soon as you can.

The rocket science is not the technical stuff but how to truly entertain an audience....

[Ryan S]

Good advice on the backups, Florian.

Also, your demo reel is addictive. Very nice work.

[Jamie Havill]

Hi guys,

Thanks for all the support and tips. I'll be spending a lot of time with the Red manual between now and the shoot.

I understand the comments about story; I do know that hard work is required in every area when it comes to making a successful film, and that I understand the Red will by no means make my film instantly great. I made a little short recently on the Z7 and SGPro DOF adapter which can be seen here -

http://www.vimeo.com/5177243

I just want to take the picture to the next level, as I 'm not completely happy with what the Z7 and the DOF adapters produce. I helped write and then storyboarded and DP'd that little project, and I just feel it could of been so much more with a bit of extra preperation regarding the image, and also a GOOD camera behind it. I understand the Red won't instantly make my film gold, but it will certainly go some way to helping me get to where I want it to be.

Regarding workflow, is it a case of just rendering it all to DnxHD in redrushes and then proceeding as I normally do with HDV footage?

Thanks for all the help guys, really really appreciated. I'm only still a student (I'm 21) and I'm only going to get one shot at this.

EDIT : What about using Metafuze? I still need help regarding workflow and the differences that I will encounter in contrast to what I'm used to. Also, bottom line - your all saying that is is definatly feasible to shoot with the Red One in my case?