What does RED mean to you?

[filmguy123]

I know a decent amount about cameras, current offerings, technology, etc. But I am not as proficient or knowledgeable as many of the users here.

I was wondering, what does RED mean to you and why? What is so particularily appealing about this camera over, say, the HVX200? What will it allow you to achieve, etc.?

[Stephen Gentle]

I was wondering, what does RED mean to you and why? What is so particularily appealing about this camera over, say, the HVX200?

Well, for one thing, it is around 5 or 6 times the resolution of the HVX, it has a PL lens mount for using cine lenses, the sensor is super 35mm sized, so you can get depth of field like you would with a film camera, it has 4 XLR inputs for sound, Dual Link HD-SDI out... I could go on.

RED is basically a digital film camera. The HVX is a digital video camera (although you can make it more like a film look with a lens converter, and by shooting in 24pn)

It will allow people to achieve the quality of a $100K+ camera for only 17.5k (+ lenses, accessories). The footage can be printed onto film for theatrical distribution, and look just like a multi-million dollar film, assuming that it is lit properly...

-Stephen

[Joe Aurili]

High resolution and high quality for a relatively affordable price.

Also finally not having to make all kinds of compromises like I have had to do with previous cameras.

Oh yea, and no more annoying tape!

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Everything Stephen said. I was looking at a Varicam purchase but the idea of spending all that coin and still working with 2/3" chips and not even full raster 1920 horizontal was nuts. I also was looking to get away from tape and the insane costs of the studio decks they require. The HVX is a tapeless rig but I have found both P2 and the Firestore solutions less than satisfying. The form factor of the HVX is also a tough sell to my client base that is used to my full sized Sony D30, yes its a perception issue but they are paying the bills.

Another big piece of the puzzle is the dynamic range of the Mysterium sensor, especially vs the HVX200 which IMHO only has 7 or 8 usable stops.

With the 4k RedCode RAW DCN I can create media with a serious shelf life, that is simply not the case with the HVX or even the Varicam.

[Sam Druckerman]

I agree with all the above.

But I would like to add that Red is designed to be upgradable. This is huge for me. I love knowing that when the next generation sensor is ready, I'll be able to upgrade my camera instead of having to buy a new one.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I also have to agree with all of the above. As a current HVX200 owner, RED is just what the doctor ordered. The whole P2 situation that Panasonic has is a complete joke (IMNSHO). Blair has it right with the dynamic range of the Mysterium sensor.. I could go on about further shortcomings with 35mm adapters and all that, but really, the HVX200 isn't even in the same league.

BTW: My HVX200 is for sale, since we're on the subject. I'm not even going to wait for my RED # to come up, I'm unloading it now and will just rent what I need in the meantime. I've already sold my 35mm adapter and follow focus as of the other day. Camera is in excellent - like new condition though, 2x8GB and 2x4GB P2 cards available, 2 spare batteries, all original boxes/papers, still under warranty thru next month. Nice camera, but I'm ready to move on.

[Petr Dvorak]

RED is something unbelievable and you can even own it.

RED is fullfiled dream from friendly people you nearly know, which ends in a right hands. :)

[filmguy123]

1.) What benefit is there with the higher resolution? High Definition barely has market share yet, and few people have HD-DVD players or TVs to play 1080 resolution. What are the benefits of 4k+ resolution?

2.) So it because of the sensor(s?), it is the same effect as having a redrockmicro M2, except not "faking it"?

3.) I know IMHO is "in my humble opinion" but what is IMNSHO?

4.) If I understand correctly, the 17.5k price tag is for the body, then lenses must be added, is that correct? Is there anything else that must be added? What do you need to have a fully functional camera?

[Stephen Gentle]

1.) What benefit is there with the higher resolution? High Definition barely has market share yet, and few people have HD-DVD players or TVs to play 1080 resolution. What are the benefits of 4k+ resolution?

a) Theatrical distribution - 4K printed to film, or displayed in a digital cinema looks amazing.

b) Downsampling - 1080p from 4K looks great too.


2.) So it because of the sensor(s?), it is the same effect as having a redrockmicro M2, except not "faking it"?
Yes


3.) I know IMHO is "in my humble opinion" but what is IMNSHO?
Um... I'm not sure, but maybe it's "in my not so humble opinion"...


4.) If I understand correctly, the 17.5k price tag is for the body, then lenses must be added, is that correct? Is there anything else that must be added? What do you need to have a fully functional camera?
Camera body, lens(es), something to record to (ie REDFlash, REDDrive, REDRaid, or HDCAM deck etc), battery (included, i think), Monitor (incl) or electronic viewfinder. A rails system would be handy for holding all that, or you could maybe bolt it all to the camera body or the cage...

[Dominique Grenier]

1) It allows you to have a digital negative of your film, so when, for example, 4K become the norm, your footage won't be suddenly obsolete and will last for many years to come. Also, the bigger frame allows you to crop in your image, just like you do with still photo, so you can "zoom" in your shot and reframe it any way you like/want.

[Shawn Nelson]

Hey filmguy123, I sent you a private message

[Mark Thorpe]

For me the biggest thing is that the camera being future proofed is that I don't have to think about renewing all the underwater related housings etc every two to three years. You think the cameras etc are expensive? Well having to get all the housings, monitors, lighting etc etc which go to allow one to film underwater more than doubles your camera and accessories budget. Thank heavens that will come to an end.

Cheers,
Mark.

[Ignas K]

It´s the cutting edge quality I want to have at any time I need it. That gives a lot of freedom for me.

[Joel Kaye]

I was wondering, what does RED mean to you and why? What is so particularily appealing about this camera over, say, the HVX200? What will it allow you to achieve, etc.?

In addition to everything else - more durable and upgradeable. The HVX won't even be on the same planet as RED. I'm assuming RED will be a much better low light camera too based on my HVX experiences.

[Rick Darge]

I think the Red is Jesus Christ incarnate

[Sean Michael Johnston]

It is the Holy Grail of Cinematography. It puts the unobtainable Panavision Genesis, Arri D2, and Dalsa Origin into the hands of Independant "Film" DPs and small Advertising Creative Boutiques(like www.808inc.com ).

Remember desktop publishing? Non-linear editing?
This is digital cinematography for the masses.

[Holosynthetic]

RED is the water that will help me develop my creative dreams without compromise. As an independent film maker this is pretty much the gateway to feeling like a professional without having to put my house on the market to make payments like so many other directors have done in the past to foot the bill for production costs.

Also as an actor, this is a dream come true. Even if I end up only acting in my own films, it beats having to worry about showing up on someone else's set with only a DV camera.

I want to be a professional, this is the answer.

[Jared VanLeuven]

All of the above, plus the extremely wide over and undercrankability to boot. That's what sealed the deal for me, along with Jim's dedication and maniacal obsession with detail. I own Oakley stuff, and most of it I would not part with without some serious Fight Club action.

[Ralph Oshiro]

What RED means to me:

1. Finally, the Holy Grail of selective focus: S35mm-class, shallow depth-of-field capability, without sacrificing dynamic range, contrast, or resolution. This is my number one reason for buying RED, and for [hopefully] dumping my 2/3" 24P camera [Sony DSR450] that I bought six months ago.

2. Low signal-to-noise ratio characteristics of large-format imagers.

3. Image quality to compete (er, exceed) the "big boys" of digital cinema acquistion. I'll never have to "apologize" for my image quality again.

4. With the relatively low price point of the camera body, and an available Nikon F-mount option, I can start lensing quality images immediately using inexpensive Nikkor 35mm primes. The capability of this system at this price point is truly revolutionary.

5. Variable frame rates: true high-speed photography for silky smooth slow-mo.

[Hrvoje Simic]

A great storytelling tool.
And with it for the first time it all depends on you.
Sort of.

[m.treurniet]

Ok, but how much will a decent package cost? 17500 $ for the body is not much compared to my viper filmstream camera. But how about the rest? How much will REDCode, REDFlash, REDDrive, REDRaid etc add??? In the end you might end up spending 3 to 4 times 17500 $.

[Omada]

For me, Red offers a dynamic workflow... assuming Redcine delivers as advertised. I like using 35mm Cine Lenses without the light loss of cumbersome adapters. The 4K res is not really a prime motivator for me, personally and may even prove an annoyance in the comming years. The new indie mantra will be: Bad Acting and a Terrible Script: Now in 4K!!!

[Jeremy Hughes]

Red means a colour, RED means a company, RED ONE means a camera (the ultimate camera)

[Jaime Vallés]

Here's my reply to a very similar question posted on DVXuser:

RED is going to be what I use for the next feature film I make. I made my first one with a DVX100 (see my sig below), and I'm very happy with it. But, all else being equal, had I had an HVX200, or an HD100, or an XL-H1, or an f350, or a Varicam or F900 at my disposal, the final image would have looked better. I wish I had shot it in HD, but when I shot the film (Summer 2003) only the Varicam and the F900 were out, and they were way too expensive for our budget.

So, our next feature film will have a (hopefully) bigger budget, and will allow the use of $20K-$30K for camera equipment. The RED-One camera fits squarely into that price range, and will deliver (again, hopefully) results that will put it leagues beyond anything the DVX is capable of. I love my DVX, but I don't want to shoot in 4:1:1 SD for the big screen again; too many compromises in image quality.

If the RED-One hadn't been announced, I'd probably be looking into one of the following:

a) Renting an f900
b) Buying an HDX900
c) Buying an f350
d) Renting a film camera

The HDX900 looks like a real good camera, and I really like Panasonic's "look". I also like the XDcam HD tapeless workflow.

Lot's of people say that a camera is only a tool, and the most important things are story, acting, music, sets, costumes, lights, music, editing, directing, and music. I agree (especially with the music part). But all else being equal, why would I spend $30,000 on 1080p 4:2:2 DVCproHD recorded to tape, when I can shoot 4K REDCODE RAW to an on-board flash module, and then dump it straight into my edit bay (complete with an offline proxy for editing at 480p and the original 4K footage safely in a bunch of cheap external drives).

There's just no contest. If the images RED produces remain in line with what they've been showing, there's no need for me to move to anything else digital, and it makes a really good argument against shooting on film at all.

[Rob Lohman]

Ok, but how much will a decent package cost? 17500 $ for the body is not much compared to my viper filmstream camera. But how about the rest? How much will REDCode, REDFlash, REDDrive, REDRaid etc add??? In the end you might end up spending 3 to 4 times 17500 $.

Hello M (and greetings from a fellow Dutchman),

Pricing for the other parts will be announced in March. We have indicted that the other products will be in line with the pricing of RED ONE. A 320 GB (should give at least 2 hours of recording space at 4K 24 fps) RED-DRIVE has been promised at under $1000.

This is what you can reserve this very minute at www.red.com:

* RED ONE Camera. $17,500 ($1000 deposit)
* RED 18-85mm f2.8 Lens. $9,500 ($750 deposit)
* RED 300mm f2.8 Lens. $4995 ($500 deposit)

Do these lenses feel in line with the pricing of RED ONE? We think so. This should give an indication of our pricing structure.

As always if you have a reservation and you're not pleased for whatever reason when the camera comes out, you can get your money back.

More details in March!

[Akcelik]

4:4:4 Color!

[Roxco]

Storytelling is the dream, but cost per BITS (Butts In The Seats) is the reality.

Just as DV & FireWire has made video editing affordable for every school and church, RED and similiar "film" cameras for under $50K have the possibility to transform "film" production at the highschool and college level.

Put a RED with Kicking FCP system, step back and watch the chisels fly. Today's smart students don't need instruction as much as they need access and forums like this to help them fly to the moon and back.

That's what RED means to me!

Rosco

[slimchrisp]

Hey filmguy123, I sent you a private message

hey shawn, i wouldn't mind hearing what you had to say to filmguy.

[peter roehsler]

For me RED means to work at the best quality level available. The purchase cost (incl. some decent glass) equals a rental budget for one full-length project. It would be absolutely foolish not to go for a RED. Also to stay competetive, I simply can not afford not to buy a RED.

[Finner]

Ok, but how much will a decent package cost? 17500 $ for the body is not much compared to my viper filmstream camera. But how about the rest? How much will REDCode, REDFlash, REDDrive, REDRaid etc add??? In the end you might end up spending 3 to 4 times 17500 $.


Sounds to me like a very nervous viper owner clutching at straws.

[Gregory Karydis]

Aside from all the obvious technical superiority, Red means one thing for me,
It's a product made with enthusiasm, backed by desire and driven by the
passion of a group of madmen (err.. scientists)
That, coupled with the ability of the end users to influence (to some extent)
the end product means you get a tool that's more like an extension of your
own self.
You can customize it to suit almost any project and when there will be need
for support I have a feeling we won't be let down :)

It is a piece of hardware not forced to be backwards compatible with outdated
(and sometimes obscure) standards and as such, it takes only what's best of
existing technology and builds up from it.
I see my Red One as an investment to my future and we'll evolve alongside.

I hope this didn't sound too emotional :D

[Phil Becque]

I spent 8 years on my last SD project because as an Indie that's all I could afford. I'm really happy with how the documentary on Buddhism turned out in terms of content. The only thing I am unhappy about is the SD DVCAM image quality, which while OK for the DVD doesn't look so good on a big screen.

RED will mean that anything I shoot with it will be suitable for any purpose for at least 10-15 years.