Serial Numbers, Stolen Red Cameras?

[John Sprung]

In these last few weeks before production units are delivered, it might be a good idea to consider what we can do to minimize the number of Red cameras that get stolen. Given the enormous interest this camera has generated, it seems to me inevitable that there will be a market for hot ones.

One good thing that is already happening is that people are publicising their serial numbers on this forum. If we could expand that to a voluntary public database of serial numbers and owners, it would make hot Reds harder to fence and easier to recover. Of course, that would require some database maintenance, and a secure way to handle legitimate re-sellers and buyers of used cameras. But given a camera that costs as much as a fairly nice car, it would seem to be worth about as much effort as the DMV puts into changes of registration. Maybe some kind of password with personal question and answer as a backup, like WaMu uses for savings accounts? The database could also track things like factory service and upgrades.

Where is the serial number on the camera? Is it prominent and hard to alter? Could it also be burned into a chip someplace in a way that would require factory level technology to alter? Maybe another copy inside near the sensor chip where it couldn't be messed with without ruining the camera?

(BTW, I'm not signed up for a Red, but I do have Arriflex Model One's, #1420 and #1578.)



-- J.S.

[Eugene]

public database of serial numbers and owners
Warning: I am about to be a smart ass here. Lets include your home address to make it even easier for thieves to know where to go to steal a Red. Serial numbers on cars don't stop thieves.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I think realistically, if a RED is stolen, there's not much that can be done. It can be mentioned on forums like this one. RED can be notified as well and they can deny future service and upgrades to the camera unless it is recovered by its rightful owner.

[Matthew S. Smith]

Do you mean that there is no GPS tracking chip embedded deep within the camera ? :biggrin:

Matt (packing away my dollars for a 2008 REDONE)

[Cloudchaser]

This had been a standard place to list stolen equipment.
http://peraonline.org/cgi-bin/WebObjects/PERA#

David

[J. Bernard Vallon]

Do you mean that there is no GPS tracking chip embedded deep within the camera ? :biggrin:



Does anyone know of a company that would do something like that? Maybe without voiding our precious warranty?

Maybe discretely put it on the outside of the camera batman-style?

PS, i have no idea if this is even possible.

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Just put it next to the tail pipe. Nobody ever looks for tracking devices there... oh wait..

[I Bloom]

The recent Harry Potter was leaked online by someone who photographed every page with a Rebel 350. They know this from the metadata and they also know the serial number. If they could link the camera to the owner they would have the guy/gal.

You could set it up, in fact I think it is already the case that any footage created on a RED includes the serial number of the camera. So any footage created with the camera would need that info stripped off otherwise it would give it away.

Like laptops, thieves almost never use the stolen goods, they pass them on as is to the buyer. It's the buyer that is usually caught with stolen property.

So here's an idea. (Not that I think its worth it.) RedCine could access a list of stolen or lost cameras and search for that info on footage it is processing. I'm not predicting or desiring this, but it's a solution to what you are talking about.

IBloom

[John V]

One word...INSURANCE

[REDHKSC]

Before you make any ideas, please reserve your RED one camera 1st then you may or not to give any further security ideas to RED one. ( It's all depend on Red 's board to consider and discuss etc. )

Again NO ARRI here, and we are not in Germany !!!

Best regards,

Stewart
Founder
REDHKSC.org
HKSAR - CHINA





In these last few weeks before production units are delivered, it might be a good idea to consider what we can do to minimize the number of Red cameras that get stolen. Given the enormous interest this camera has generated, it seems to me inevitable that there will be a market for hot ones.

One good thing that is already happening is that people are publicising their serial numbers on this forum. If we could expand that to a voluntary public database of serial numbers and owners, it would make hot Reds harder to fence and easier to recover. Of course, that would require some database maintenance, and a secure way to handle legitimate re-sellers and buyers of used cameras. But given a camera that costs as much as a fairly nice car, it would seem to be worth about as much effort as the DMV puts into changes of registration. Maybe some kind of password with personal question and answer as a backup, like WaMu uses for savings accounts? The database could also track things like factory service and upgrades.

Where is the serial number on the camera? Is it prominent and hard to alter? Could it also be burned into a chip someplace in a way that would require factory level technology to alter? Maybe another copy inside near the sensor chip where it couldn't be messed with without ruining the camera?

(BTW, I'm not signed up for a Red, but I do have Arriflex Model One's, #1420 and #1578.)



-- J.S.

[Jochen Schmidt-Hambrock]

Couldn´t we put the cameras serial number into the footage metadata?

Jochen

[Rocco Schult]

Before you make any ideas, please reserve your RED one camera 1st then you may or not to give any further security ideas to RED one. ( It's all depend on Red 's board to consider and discuss etc. )

Again NO ARRI here, and we are not in Germany !!!

Best regards,

Stewart
HKSAR - CHINA

So why don't we close this thread ? Cool down, Stewart. Where are we then ? China ? A reservation doesn't influence necessarily the quality of a proposition, does it ?
And there's no serial number required to enter the forum. So its everybodies right to give some thoughts.

I appreciate the idea and especiaylly the answer of ibloom and Jochen.
a simple combination of putting the serial no into the metadata like in exif and redcine checking against a red-database from time-to-time could be a solution and maybe fairly easy. Lets say every 3 months one absolute necessary connection to the web/reduser serial db and if not registered as stolen, everything works as advertised ;-)
Yours No 850

[Jochen Schmidt-Hambrock]

Now that would make me a bit nerveous - that ability to shut down my workflow if I dont renew my credibility.

But a serial number that spells "This camera is reported missing" to the editor, colorist, etc. would diminish the value of Reds that "fell off the truck" quite a bit.

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Lets say every 3 months one absolute necessary connection to the web/reduser serial db and if not registered as stolen, everything works as advertised ;-)
Yours No 850

Absolutely not. On 3 seperate occasions in the last 2 years I've had software decide its license was no longer valid for whatever reason during crunch on a project. That means I'm on the phone at 3 in the morning trying to get through with some service agent wasting precious hours I could be sleeping or working so that I can be sleeping, while my software refuses to let me in.

[Brook Willard]

What is this, Microsoft?

[REDHKSC]

1) Don't we know we have VIPs @IBC2006 and Redcore member ?

2) What are you taking about RED ?

3) If the people just talking but no investing ?

There 's only way to know our Future , and invest to know the future.

Stewart
Chief Executive Opportunist / Revolutionist / Visionist



So why don't we close this thread ? Cool down, Stewart. Where are we then ? China ? A reservation doesn't influence necessarily the quality of a proposition, does it ?
And there's no serial number required to enter the forum. So its everybodies right to give some thoughts.

I appreciate the idea and especiaylly the answer of ibloom and Jochen.
a simple combination of putting the serial no into the metadata like in exif and redcine checking against a red-database from time-to-time could be a solution and maybe fairly easy. Lets say every 3 months one absolute necessary connection to the web/reduser serial db and if not registered as stolen, everything works as advertised ;-)
Yours No 850

[david farland]

I'm sure Red have thought of a number of way and ditched them as it's not the norm in film/video camera.
Stuff like usb dongle.........nah, cos if you lose it you're stuffed
Power on password....too slow if urgently needed and people would want to disable it.
Micro dot the boards, parts.....umm. I heard when Subaru micro dotted their cars, the # of cars stolen dropped 90% overnight!

Josch, Nice idea. I don't know their policy on selectable metadata and whether making serial # mandatory would stuff up post/ingests in some cases.
Red will have a list of registered owner by serial number that we could use for a little protection. Maybe they could publish a Wanted dead or alive list, if the victim requested.

[Jochen Schmidt-Hambrock]

Serial numbers in metadata might even have some use in post:

Search for that second unit shot by camera number.

Jochen

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Lets say every 3 months one absolute necessary connection to the web/reduser serial db and if not registered as stolen, everything works as advertised ;-)
Yours No 850

Hell no!

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Couldn´t we put the cameras serial number into the footage metadata?

Jochen

Sure... But it's just metadata and as soon as the footage as converted or the metadata is altered, that information is gone.

[Gavin Greenwalt]

I'm an fx artist not a detective. I wouldn't expect the serial number in footage to do all that much good. If I were to happen to see a piece of footage shot by a camera serial # that I somehow miraculously remembered as stolen I would report it. But that's a lot of ifs.

[oldphart]

Sure... But it's just metadata and as soon as the footage as converted or the metadata is altered, that information is gone.

It would make it impossible to buy a stolen camera in good faith.
The software could even pop up a warning. More than a warning would be bad, because there will always be false positives.

It could work with a relatively low volume item like the Red. It does not work for computers and GSM phones. A stolen laptop will broadcast the hardware ID of its network adapter. It does not help as long as there is no way of reporting IDs of stolen devices. With GSM phones it is possible because operators register the hardware ID their SIM-card is used on, but hardly ever done because tracing usually costs more than a new phone.