Hackintosh

[Van Din]

I've heard to talk about Hackintosh.

http://www.osx86project.org/

http://leopardsoup.pbworks.com/

Is this PC hardware to run Mac software legal?
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Dr-Z400 (http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Suzuki_DR-Z400)

[Van Din]

A Mac Pro for $155:

http://www.efi-x.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=26

http://gizmodo.com/5049756/review-efix-dongle-perfectly-transforms-pc-to-mac
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Honda PC50 specifications (http://www.honda-wiki.org/wiki/Honda_PC50)

[Eric S.]

There's a big debate about "legality" and Hackintosh. Sparknotes: it's not piracy or stealing, because you do buy actual software, but it does violate Apple's EULA.

Even though Psystar supposedly lost / settled their case with Apple, they are still selling a Core i7 Hackintosh:

http://store.psystar.com/featured/open7-osx.html?SID=0107mgk4t5oot9dfuo6ltv41d0

Basically, it's a gray area. Personally, I would not hesitate to build a hackintosh if it suited my needs. If I were running a business, however, I would consider it more carefully and try to read through some of the notes from the Psystar case.

[Petr Dvorak]

russian and german clones
http://www.mosnews.com/money/2009/05/18/clonedapples/

http://russianmac.ru
https://www.pearc.de/

[Bruno-Pierre Lévesque]

I have try myself an hackingtosh and it's a bit complicated.
The environnement seems to work fine, but can't configure network card.
You gotta search a lot for the drivers.
Even if you buy one because you don't wanna make your own, they don't garanty that every programs will work :nono:

BP

[Stephen Gentle]

As long as you buy a license for Mac OS X for the computer you install it on, there is nothing at all illegal about it. But don't expect to have a stable system...

[Jaime Vallés]

The EFI-X module is really, really interesting...

[Alex Carr]

Guys I'm speaking from Running HackPros for 4 years, since before Apple first made the switch to intel. If you can't run it, you dont understand how Mac OSX works. You dont need drivers, you only need a bootloader. Every program works 100%, There are NO hacked Drivers on my systems. Vanilla installs are as close to legal as it gets.

You do not need EFI-X, google: Chameleon

[Kholi Hicks]

Vanilla installs have not been working for four years. That's incorrect.

And it's not as simple as "you don't know how OS X works".

[Alex Carr]

Vanilla installs have been working since Leopard.

If you can stick a disc in, and then read your motherboard manual, then yes you can install this.

[Joshua Brown]

Vanilla installs have been working since Leopard.

If you can stick a disc in, and then read your motherboard manual, then yes you can install this.

Then you should go into business where people like psystar have failed.... they still need to supply updated drivers. :willy_nilly: I did the hackintosh thing for a bit. It worth every penny for the real thing.

-Josh

[Alex Carr]

Updated Drivers For what??? I dont want to be tech support for people who dont understand their computers.\

BTW, Psystar didnt fail. They exploited a weakness in Apple's EULA agreement.

[Joshua Brown]

Updated Drivers For what??? I dont want to be tech support for people who dont understand their computers.\

BTW, Psystar didnt fail. They exploited a weakness in Apple's EULA agreement.

By fail I'm talking about their apparent lack of OSX prowess. As you said, if they really knew OSX they wouldn't need drivers.

-Josh

[Alex Carr]

Thats what I mean, there are no more Drivers. The bootloader acts as an EFI layer and communicates directly to the Hardware.

I will agree with everyone here that HacPro's are not for everyone, It takes some research and understanding. I was always interested in how Mac OSX works, I build Machnes to Mimic real Macs/

They are not necessarliy that much cheaper. if you go for Cheap it wont run that well...Anybody will tell you that. Thats no longer the reason I run them. Its about Customization, and freedom of GPU's.

[Van Din]

Thats what I mean, there are no more Drivers. The bootloader acts as an EFI layer and communicates directly to the Hardware.

I will agree with everyone here that HacPro's are not for everyone, It takes some research and understanding. I was always interested in how Mac OSX works, I build Machnes to Mimic real Macs/

They are not necessarliy that much cheaper. if you go for Cheap it wont run that well...Anybody will tell you that. Thats no longer the reason I run them. Its about Customization, and freedom of GPU's.What do you mean? How difficult is the job for a newbie and average user?
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[Joshua Brown]

Thats what I mean, there are no more Drivers. The bootloader acts as an EFI layer and communicates directly to the Hardware.

I will agree with everyone here that HacPro's are not for everyone, It takes some research and understanding. I was always interested in how Mac OSX works, I build Machnes to Mimic real Macs/

They are not necessarliy that much cheaper. if you go for Cheap it wont run that well...Anybody will tell you that. Thats no longer the reason I run them. Its about Customization, and freedom of GPU's.

Now if it's only for customization I can totally see that. But I would never reccommend someone trying to implement a hackpro into their business. It's not cost effective to fiddle with them.

-Josh

[Jonas Bendsen]

My first question would be, why are you looking into the hackintosh route?

If it's just to save money, I think you'll only end up creating more headaches for yourself in the end. Yes, the price difference between Mac and PC is appalling, but I'd say get a night job bar tending for a month, save up an extra $2,000, and get a real Mac Pro. :thumbsup:

If it's for other reasons, let us know what they are.

For instance, we've currently got a project that exists in both Final Cut and Premiere. I prefer my PC system, but I need to be able to work in Final Cut. I'd rather not have an entire extra system just to be able to take a look at that Final Cut project, so I started looking into hackintosh.

After speaking to a LOT of people whom I consider experts in the field, I finally ran screaming in the other direction. Hackintosh just seemed like there were far too many pitfalls to consider it a viable option for a Video Editing machine.

If you're just screwing around with Mac on a PC machine, that's one thing, but if you're using it as a serious tool, I'd look for other options.

[Noah Kadner]

Yeah this is insanity for a RED system- you're paying 17,500 for the camera body alone and you're looking to save a couple grand getting a Mac with no warranty, no tech support and mountain of potential conflicts and bugs to go with it. Why?

Noah

[Joseph Ward]

I hate spending time to fix or maintain my PC, once I get more $, I will get an Apple. Thanks guys for the input.

[Jonas Bendsen]

I hate spending time to fix or maintain my PC, once I get more $, I will get an Apple. Thanks guys for the input.

You think you won't have to fix or maintain your Apple? The only difference is it costs more to fix and maintain!

[Joseph Ward]

I meant software related.

[plasmasmp]

My first Hackintosh I built in 2005 as a test when I was thinking about shooting a film on Andromeda. As simple as making sure the hardware matched or came close to the original Intel spec as possible. Now its really simple to build these systems. Why do it? Everything I own is hacked in some way. From my car, to my cameras. For computers, its a no brainer for me. I'm obsessive about building them and spend countless hours testing, benchmarking, overclocking, managing heat vs noise, and comparing stability vs speed. While doing this certainly isn't for everyone, I'm glad there is the freedom now to run the Mac OS on custom computers.

[Eric S.]

If you want a fully functioning Mac with all drivers and functionality supported, then a hackintosh is not for you. If you're running a business, a hackintosh is probably not for you. If you're not particularly tech-savvy, a hackintosh is probably not for you.

Some people build hackintoshes to save money on a Mac. Others do it to "stick it to the man." Still others do it for the challenge, or because they have $200 lying around for OSX and want to play around with another operating system. Others do it to have an OSX partition on their otherwise primarily Windows system (running MacDrive), enabling very quick cross-platform work.

Is it perfect? No. Is it for everyone? No. Is it doable with a reasonable amount of homework? Absolutely. Is it worth it? Depends on your situation.

[Alex Carr]

I am not happy with Apple's Hardware, plain and simple. Like I said before If you understand how Mac OSX works, this kind of thing is a piece of Cake. I use the Hardware that works best, That's why Its reliable. I dont go installing it on some random computer or big Server and then wonder why it doesn't work... Duh...

The Main reasons to run this are within Customization, But this all comes at a Price... Being knowledgeable enough to build your own computers and troubleshoot them. When I buy hardware, I usually spend a Day and a 1/2 installing and building, then creating an image to automatically restore an OS <--- in the event something actually happens. Installing this is not as hard as it used to be, and is no longer outside the realm of Building a PC or setting up a computer in general. But you still have to be tech-savvy, I always say if you can read your motherboard manual and build the computer this is a piece of cake,

Here are my reasons,

•ANY operating system,
•Rackmount,
•GPU freedom,
•Watercooling,
•Expandability,
•Simple upgrades (instead of a whole new computer)
•Cheaper Quality Parts,
•Motherboards that match your needs,
•Legacy Hardware, (if you need it, I dont really)
•Bios control,
•Overclocking
•Stability in Harsh conditions
•5 year Hardware warranty on most items, (Especially Motherboards, I use ASUS)
•Apple sucks at Hardware, (They want an Arm and a Leg to repair something they get a 5 year warranty on from intel...)

To me, there IS no difference other than the Gucci case and the Apple Logo on the side.

And I'm with you all, THIS IS NOT FOR EVERYONE...

[Kholi Hicks]

Vanilla installs have been working since Leopard.

If you can stick a disc in, and then read your motherboard manual, then yes you can install this.

Leopard hasn't been out for three years. So of course it's not cake walk. Nor is the concept of using EXACT hardware to build a system.

The only thing I can agree with you on the idea of a "hackintosh" is that it's not for everyone and I would never ever recommend it to any professional environment.

[Roberto B]

Yeah this is insanity for a RED system- you're paying 17,500 for the camera body alone and you're looking to save a couple grand getting a Mac with no warranty, no tech support and mountain of potential conflicts and bugs to go with it. Why?

Noahbecause a lot of guys already spent a goooood part in the 17500 cake.. a lot of others do not offer commer$ial work just ArT..
is it so hard to figure? :long sigh:

[Noah Kadner]

Sure if you love to tinker, want to save some money, and are not afraid of having no Applecare tech support- then hackintosh might be for you. Frankly I don't see anyone in a work for hire production environment going for this.

What do you tell the client when it craps the bed? Well it's a hackintosh and we saved some money..... er... oops. Please hire us for your next show.

[Gavin Greenwalt]

I meant software related.

Must not be talking about FCP. I've had to flush the settings and fix FCP installs more than any editor I've ever used.

[Joseph Ward]

Must not be talking about FCP. I've had to flush the settings and fix FCP installs more than any editor I've ever used.

That sucks. So maybe I should use some other Nonlinear Editing Software for Apple OS. Was the problem with updates or something else?

[Alex Carr]

Leopard hasn't been out for three years. So of course it's not cake walk. Nor is the concept of using EXACT hardware to build a system.


Tiger was running on PC's in 2005 three months before January 14th 2006, when Apple started selling the first Macbook Pro. Vanilla installs were popping up in March+April 2008. How much different do you actually think Tiger and Leopard are??

I dont want exact hardware anyway, Thats the whole point!

[Gavin Greenwalt]

That sucks. So maybe I should use some other Nonlinear Editing Software for Apple OS. Was the problem with updates or something else?

You can give them all a run for their money. But as I like to say:

Maya regularly crashes on OSX, Windows and Linux as does 3ds max and XSI. :)

FCP was more crashy for me than Avid MC or Premiere but it's been more than a year so my specific issues may have been corrected.

It doesn't really matter what platform or software you run it's probably going to be crashy and buggy. It's just a question of which bugs and which crashes.

[Roberto B]

Sure if you love to tinker, want to save some money, and are not afraid of having no Applecare tech support- then hackintosh might be for you. Frankly I don't see anyone in a work for hire production environment going for this.

What do you tell the client when it craps the bed? Well it's a hackintosh and we saved some money..... er... oops. Please hire us for your next show.ehehehehe well pointed.. the only difference is that the gang as any artists gang is used to sell the own shows loooooooool how me loves that word!! the show ehehehehe where are we now?? jannard's show.. sorry boss.. couldn't resist :smilielol5:

[Andrew McCarrick]

•Apple sucks at Hardware, (They want an Arm and a Leg to repair something they get a 5 year warranty on from intel...)



So you mean the warranty and repair services on the hardware, not the actual hardware? Becausse Apple doesn't build or assemble any of their own hardware, it's all OEM or off-the-shelf stuff from other manufactures, and is usually assembled by a third-party; they just charge more for it.

[Jay Voutour]

Becausse Apple doesn't build or assemble any of their own hardware, it's all OEM or off-the-shelf stuff from other manufactures, and is usually assembled by a third-party...

I thought the BTO Mac Pros were assembled in Cali?
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[Jonas Bendsen]

I'm wondering what happened to this post:


Posted by: (name withheld to protect the innocent)
On: 07-28-2009 02:38 PM

hello,
here in europe pearc.de (http://pearc.de/) is THE source of hardware that runs osx (preinstalled, 2 years warranty). look at https://www.pearc.de/professional-line.html
that one comes with intel core i7 which is, lets say, slightly faster than 'nethalem'. in germany it's legal to order and posess.
cheerio!That's some EXTREMELY interesting (and valuable) information. I have a friend lamenting the fact that if he buys a Mac Pro he can only have 3 PCIe slots (one is automatically taken up by a video card). If you want multiple monitors or a dual-slot vid card, there goes another. Sound card? There's another. RAID? There's the fourth. Anything else? Too bad, you're out of slots!

Ridiculous.

Also, a Mac OSX system utilizing i7? That's extremely interesting.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

The author of that post deleted it himself... But one nitpick about his statement regarding i7 and Nehalem... They're the same thing. "Nehalem" is the development name for the i7-based Xeon CPUs currently on the market. The desktop Core i7 CPUs are "Bloomfield" and "Bloomfield Extreme".

As for pre-built Hackintosh systems. They're not "illegal". But they violate the EULA that Apple sets forth for their Mac OS software. Apple has gone after a couple clone system providers, like Psystar, but in the end I don't think it's in Apple's best interest to do so, and I'm guessing they don't think so either. Otherwise they would be all over it, even in Germany, where their EULA is recognized by the German courts and IP / Trademark laws.

To reflect the sentiments of others in this thread, I wouldn't consider using a "hackintosh" system in a pro environment. And hardware selection is limited, when assembling such a system, we're restricted to using hardware that has appropriate drivers for OSX.

[Roberto B]

& that thread deleted today??
surely it was not the author himself