Slowest frame rate RED can do

[explosive]

Any idea?

[Jannard]

1 fps. This will not be enabled at 1st shipment but will be in an upgrade fairly soon after.

Jim

[explosive]

1 fps. This will not be enabled at 1st shipment but will be in an upgrade fairly soon after.

Jim

Ta mate. Sounds fab.

And will this be do-able at 4k as well? Or will we have run at 2k (like >30 frame rates)?

[Brook Willard]

Ta mate. Sounds fab.

And will this be do-able at 4k as well? Or will we have run at 2k (like >30 frame rates)?

To my knowledge, the camera can't shoot 4K@>30 onboard because it's simply too much data to compress [REDCODE] in realtime. Since 1 FPS is the exact opposite [much less data], it seems that it could be captured in 4K REDCODE RAW onboard.

[explosive]

To my knowledge, the camera can't shoot 4K@>30 onboard because it's simply too much data to compress [REDCODE] in realtime. Since 1 FPS is the exact opposite [much less data], it seems that it could be captured in 4K REDCODE RAW onboard.

Good answer. Makes sense.

[Shawn Nelson]

mmmm....time delay sunset in 4k....

[Michael Mann]

1 fps. ...
Single frame exposure as well?

[explosive]

Single frame exposure as well?

As oppossed to... multiple. single. frame. exposure??

Not quite sure what you mean.

[Brook Willard]

I think he wants to use it like a still camera?

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Maybe uncompressed single frames?

[explosive]

I think he wants to use it like a still camera?

I am guessing so.

yeh maybe he means the shutter speed, leaving the frame exposed for longer?

Actually, I am not even sure whether RED has a variable shutter speed :-|
Does it?

[Brook Willard]

Yes, it does. Adjustable in increments of time [1/xth of a second] or angle [x degrees].

There's some good info in the FAQ I have linked in my signature if you haven't checked it out.

[explosive]

Single frame exposure as well?

Oh right, i get it. You want to do something like stop motion animation, am I guessing?

[REDHKSC]

1 fps. This will not be enabled at 1st shipment but will be in an upgrade fairly soon after.

Jim

RED Time Lapse camcorder in 4K as Spiritual Melting squences about Nature on earth .......

Stewart

[explosive]

Yes, it does. Adjustable in increments of time [1/xth of a second] or angle [x degrees].

There's some good info in the FAQ I have linked in my signature if you haven't checked it out.

So you can adjust the shutter angle too? oh, coolness.

Sorrtt, couldnt find that section in the faq? Had a bit of a a look, but will look more when i get home... awesome job btw. I think red should pay you to do their manuals :P

[Brook Willard]

I haven't put anything about shutter angles in there yet. This'll serve as my little reminder to add that section.

[explosive]

RED Time Lapse camcorder in 4K as Spiritual Melting squences about Nature on earth .......

Stewart

Or on sequences about frantic housewives pepped up on diet pills fromn a dodgy doctor.

[explosive]

I haven't put anything about shutter angles in there yet. This'll serve as my little reminder to add that section.

One wonders how exactly the shutter mechanism works given that we know it is not a mechanical shutter.

<<<wonders.

[Brook Willard]

There has been quite a lot of discussion about the way the shutter works... a search for "shutter" will probably yield some great results.

[Michael Mann]

Oh right, i get it. You want to do something like stop motion animation, am I guessing?
Right. I was referring to time lapse cinematography.

[Mike Gifford]

I am very interested in what the RED can bring to the stopframe and pixillation industries, I would love single frame capture out of the camera.

Currently for features and commercials 35mm movie cameras (Mitchells) tend to be still used although DSLRs are making a big inroad here.

The problem with DSLRs is that you have to video-tap the viewfinder to get over the shutter problem if you want a live feed. There are also restrictions on the frame rates you can use.

If you are used to using a film camera fitted with an animation motor and controller for stopframe or pixillation, then you have control over shutter speed (typically 1/8,1/4,1/2,1 sec, 2 sec and upwards), frame rate (1,2,4,8,16,24 and upwards) and continuous run on/off, shutter capping etc

If the RED gave us single frame capture it wouldn't be hard to devise a simple electronic control system that duplicated that.

Then we would be able to do run and gun pixillation across wild landscapes!

Mike Gifford

[Joe Aurili]

But it can do 0 FPS on release, if you don't press the record button. Zero is lower then one... ;)


1 fps. This will not be enabled at 1st shipment but will be in an upgrade fairly soon after.

Jim

[Joe Aurili]

And yes, single frame capture in a picture file format would be a great feature to have.

[Stokestack]

Still unanswered is the question of variable data rates, and whether we'll be able to max out the throughput of the processor and storage device.

At 1 FPS, I'd think you could record an uncompressed frame.

[Larry]

Any chance to develop RED to have slower speeds than 1 fps? Something like 0.1-0.2 fps would make it possible to film stars and other phenomena in the night sky.

[Craig Schober]

Any chance to develop RED to have slower speeds than 1 fps? Something like 0.1-0.2 fps would make it possible to film stars and other phenomena in the night sky.

quoted from stuart english post:

"Slow Shutter no, Timelapse Yes.

When you have a tape based recording solution or a log GOP codec, you must feed the recording system a fixed number of frames per second. RED does not have either of these restrictions, so the same visual look is achieved by operating in Timelapse mode."

but i wouldn't expect this feature enabled when cameras first ship.

[Cloudchaser]

A built-in intervalometer function would be extremely interesting. I would definitely make use of that. Preferably it would allow:
Shoot a burst as slow as once every hour.
Allow each burst to be up to a minute or so.
In single frame bursts, allow long exposure times.

RED, please incorporate this functionality eventually!
David

[Brook Willard]

David, if you do a search on the matter, you'll find that there are already plans to include an intervalometer.

[Alex Boothby]

David, is it too late to change your last name? I get confused easy....

[Stokestack]

Essentially the answer is that you can do time-lapse with a maximum exposure of one second. Within that limitation, the interval in between shots doesn't really matter; with the amount of storage you'll have, it shouldn't be a problem to fire off a shot every second and then throw some away in post if you want.

I think the one-second exposure limit is a little unfortunate, especially for night footage, but what are ya gonna do? Probably someone will bring up the idea of using a 360-degree shutter and adding frames together in post: Maybe, but unless there's absolutely no latency between frames, you're going to get gaps in the streaks of moving objects. For example, a streaked taillight will have a break in it where one frame ended and then the chip started gathering light for the next frame. So maybe someone from Red could weigh in on that issue.

I'm curious about why you can't have fractional frame rates less than one, too.

[I Bloom]

Any chance to develop RED to have slower speeds than 1 fps? Something like 0.1-0.2 fps would make it possible to film stars and other phenomena in the night sky.

I second that desire. 1 fps is unfortunately not slow enough for celestial timelapse. And for me speeding up in post is not the same thing.

I would say it makes more sense to use a DSLR for these shots, but RED might have a lower noise floor and better bit depth (??).

IBloom

[Stokestack]

I would say it makes more sense to use a DSLR for these shots, but RED might have a lower noise floor and better bit depth (??).

Not if you shoot raw on a Canon, for example. I'd say the DSLR would be superior, because it's uncompressed (and we don't have an answer on whether we can write uncompressed frames to the Red's on-board storage if the frame rate is low enough).

It seems like the only real reason for doing time-lapse on the Red would be matching it to live-action shots done with the same lens/sensor combo.

[I Bloom]

Not if you shoot raw on a Canon, for example. I'd say the DSLR would be superior, because it's uncompressed (and we don't have an answer on whether we can write uncompressed frames to the Red's on-board storage if the frame rate is low enough).

It seems like the only real reason for doing time-lapse on the Red would be matching it to live-action shots done with the same lens/sensor combo.

I don't think that would be a huge issue. Since timelapse is rarely matching back to a scene. I agree with you and it would be better to put a RED to use shooting higher frame rates, the cost is significant.

Still it's quiet a nice feature to have. I often tack vacations on the end of away shoots in nice places. As much as I'd like to bring it I often leave my DSLR at home when I'm already packing cine gear. It's just too much to worry about. And shooting timelapse is for me a great way to relax. So I guess that's why I would hope for even slower frame rates. I guess we'll see.

IBloom

[sandeep]

I still don't see why we can't have fractional frame rate and next I'll be asking why not a flash sync at 250 or more. Red is based on a DSLR and much more after all.
Is there some way to sync HMIs at all?

[Tom Lowe]

1fps-3fps is really ideal for daytime cloud formation timelapses and such.

For night celestial shooting, you generally need exposure times closer to 30 seconds, depending on the moon. Maybe Red with its amazing ISOs can cut that time down, but 1fps isn't going to be shooting stars.

The reason why it would be great to have a lot of timelapse/intervalometer features on Red is that post production on DLSR timelapses is a huge pain in the ass, generally speaking. With a video camera, though, like the HVX, timelapse is a total breeze.

[Frank Weeks]

David, is it too late to change your last name? I get confused easy....

Dave
Welcome to the revolution

In case your wondering, Your name is close to one of our most knowledgeable gurus, David Mullins ASC.

His wisdom is everywhere

[Justin Anderson]

And yes, single frame capture in a picture file format would be a great feature to have.

Stop motion in 4K!:devil:

[Michael Mann]

I still don't see why we can't have fractional frame rate ... I totally agree.

[Anarri]

...and we don't have an answer on whether we can write uncompressed frames to the Red's on-board storage if the frame rate is low enough.


I think Stuart said as long as the data doesn't exceed the maximum bandwidth, then it's possible.

So the answer is YES you can write 1FPS 4K uncompressed, but I'm not sure how high can you go before it overloads. 12FPS??

:matrix:

[Stokestack]

So the answer is YES you can write 1FPS 4K uncompressed, but I'm not sure how high can you go before it overloads. 12FPS??

Really? I didn't see that. That's good, if true. It means that there's a path for uncompressed raw data to on-board storage, which doesn't depend on the raw port.

Can anyone confirm this?

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Stop motion in 4K!:devil:

My DSLR already does this. Of course, If RED can do it too, then great! :)

[Brook Willard]

I think Stuart said as long as the data doesn't exceed the maximum bandwidth, then it's possible.

So the answer is YES you can write 1FPS 4K uncompressed, but I'm not sure how high can you go before it overloads. 12FPS??

:matrix:

I don't recall ever reading this... while it may be possible [from a technical standpoint], I've never heard them announce it as a feature.

[I Bloom]

The reason why it would be great to have a lot of timelapse/intervalometer features on Red is that post production on DLSR timelapses is a huge pain in the ass, generally speaking. With a video camera, though, like the HVX, timelapse is a total breeze.

That's true. I would add also that wavelet REDCODE might be better than JPG for compressing starscapes assuming you decide not to go full raw. Are their any DSLRs that do JPEG2000 (ie wavelet)?

IBloom