Sony HD video walkman... RED viewfinder?

[number6]

Sony has just announced the September release of an HD video walkman in Europe. Will this have possibilities as a viewfinder for RED? Price hasn't been released yet. The link is http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/33124/97/

[Bruce Allen]

It's only 800x480.

I have to keep tabs on the competition ;)

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

[Rocket]

In what universe is 800 x 480 considered high definition?

[Graeme Nattress]

For anyone who's grown up on NTSC, 800x480p is high definition :-) But for those who grew up on PAL, it's a backward step.

RED viewfinder is 1280x720p if memory serves me right, which given it's progressive nature (I can't in all honesty describe any interlaced format, no matter what it's resolution, a high definition format, but that's my personal bias) is truly HD.

[Rocket]

For anyone who's grown up on NTSC, 800x480p is high definition :-) But for those who grew up on PAL, it's a backward step.

RED viewfinder is 1280x720p if memory serves me right, which given it's progressive nature (I can't in all honesty describe any interlaced format, no matter what it's resolution, a high definition format, but that's my personal bias) is truly HD.

Ah, I'm so used to using and seeing PAL formats. I thought, ok PAL is 720 x 576, so how can 800 x 480 possibly be an HD format?

Hang on a sec though, NTSC is 720 x 480 right?

I have to say, I've put together what I thought was a pretty comprehensive resolution and format chart here: http://www.4khub.com/viewpage.php?page_id=12 And I won't argue with you, but I've never heard of 800 x 480 before.

[Bruce Allen]

Ah, I'm so used to using and seeing PAL formats. I thought, ok PAL is 720 x 576, so how can 800 x 480 possibly be an HD format?

Hang on a sec though, NTSC is 720 x 480 right?

Yep. 720x486, to be exact (480 is DV).



I have to say, I've put together what I thought was a pretty comprehensive resolution and format chart here: http://www.4khub.com/viewpage.php?page_id=12 And I won't argue with you, but I've never heard of 800 x 480 before.

4K Hub, 800x480 is a commonly-used resolution for portable LCD monitors (even ones costing multiple thousands of dollars). They scale down the HD signal - sometimes pretty well. Still, personally, I think it's not enough! Red is using a 1024x600 panel for their 5.6" LCD (their viewfinder is 1280) and the supplementary monitor I am building uses a 1280x768 panel.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

[Steve Gibby]

RED viewfinder is 1280x720p if memory serves me right

I believe the RED EVF is 1280x848 total active pixels, but 1280x720 active pixels within a 16x9 aspect ratio...same specs as those published for the Accuscene EVF.


EDIT: Did some checking in my archives, and 1280x848 total pixels for the EVF was recently confirmed by Stuart English:

“To back up the LCD's native WISIWG capability up we have two other modes of focus assistance which are available to both the RED-EVF and RED-LCD feeds - which are 1280 x 848 pixel and 1024 x 600 pixel displays respectively.”

Stuart English
5/10/07
RED User
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?p=42092&posted=1#post42092

[Emanuel A.]

Isn't Accuscene RED now?

Hey Steve, did you already check your PM box?

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Isn't Accuscene RED now?

Possibly. We have seen nothing to confirm or deny this yet... But Accuscene is gone or something is up. Their site just directs all current customers to an email address for support.

Oh and I'm sure Graeme was just teasin'... According to ATSC spec as well as FCC marketing restrictions in the USA, there must be 700 lines of vertical resolution or more for a display to be called "HD" or "High Definition". However, that doesn't mean that the video walkman or other device can't be marketed as being able to display HD source material. Which it does. They don't market it as actually having a HD display, unless I've missed something. If they do, then someone should point that out to the FCC and consumer protection agency.... Then again, Sony tends to be above the law on issues like that, or has been in the past.

[Gregory Karydis]

I was searching for the story/legend of how Jim was trying to get a reasonable price for the LCD by Accuscene. Can't find it...

[Joel Kaye]

Possibly. We have seen nothing to confirm or deny this yet... But Accuscene is gone or something is up. Their site just directs all current customers to an email address for support.


I asked if RED bought Accuscene in Vegas at NAB and I think the answer was "I don't know about that but the guy is working for us now" or something along those lines. I also know Silicon Imaging was trying to work a deal with Accuscene and never heard back from him after RED got a hold of him. Hmmm...

Nice to be a billionaire when you need to get something done.

[Häakon]

I've never understood how a display can be considered "HD" if it's of that low resolution. The two high definition video standards are defined as 720p (1280x720) and 1080i (1920x1080), so how can an 800x400 screen (or anything else less than 1280x720 in either direction) claim to be "HD?" Just because a screen is capable of accepting HD material and downrezzing it doesn't make it an HD screen. That's not to say that you need an HD-res screen for all applications, but there should be some set of guidelines mandating these labels if they're to be used in common practice.

[John K]

However, that doesn't mean that the video walkman or other device can't be marketed as being able to display HD source material. Which it does. They don't market it as actually having a HD display, unless I've missed something. If they do, then someone should point that out to the FCC and consumer protection agency.... Then again, Sony tends to be above the law on issues like that, or has been in the past.

Yes, it is very common for displays to be marketed as "HD ready" or some such phrase, which implies that it is a full HD display. What it actually means is, you can connect HD sources to it (HDMI, component or what have you) and it will display some sort of picture, with the correct size and aspect ratio, but not necessarily an HD pixel count!

1024 x 768 SVGA output from a PC is arguably RGB HDTV, but you can buy gadgets that allow you to display the images on an ordinary NTSC TV set. Since some HD digital set top boxes have computer-type VGA output sockets, that system could then be considered "HD Ready", but all you would be seeing on the screen is plain old NTSC!

I have actually seen LCD TVs in stores with an 800 x 480 LCD screen, fitted with an inbuilt HDTV tuner! Strangely enough, HD digital transmissions look exactly the same as SD digital transmissions on those!

[Michael Schrengohst]

Sony has just announced the September release of an HD video walkman in Europe. Will this have possibilities as a viewfinder for RED? Price hasn't been released yet. The link is http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/33124/97/

That looks like SONY is trying to breathe some life into
an almost dead format. It should say play HDV videos
not HD videos. Who the hell wants a tape player anyway?

[David Battistella]

The misnomer with HDV is that it does not stand for High Definition Video, it stands for High Digital Video.

It is one of the cleverest naming schemes ever. This format is prosumer at best and in no way should be confused with High Def video. It is not a professional format.

David

[RobRoySyd]

Sony's GVD 800 Digital 8 clamshell as been pretty much the industry standard for recording from video taps. We've ordered two of these new HDV clamshells for exactly this purpose. Battery powered, small, light enough to Velcro onto anything, what's not to like for this purpose?

Ah, the screen res. Well at that screen size more pixels would achieve nothing unless you used a magnifying glass.

By my understanding the only point of recording from a video tap is proof of what the camera op saw in the viewfinder or for quick and dirty client previews of the framing etc. HDV no matter what you think of it has got to be a step up from D8 and everyone seemed happy enough with that.

[David Battistella]

I realized I got off topic here. The original question was whether this device could replace a RED LCD. I think if you have the EVF and you were using it to record video taps, then fine (though it would have to be converted), But I am not sure it would suffice as a replacement for the LCD offered by RED.

David

Rob, I guess it could serve the purpose of being a cheap video tap for on set client previews.