Quote from "Wanted"...

[Jannard]

"We're shooting RED side by side film. We scanned the film 4k and took both into the Baselight, compared them and then did a filmout of both. When we screened side by side, we literally could not tell the difference. In fact, most people picked the RED footage as film because of a greater dynamic range in the highlights than in the 5218. It's not enough to say it is the best digital image out there. The fact is, finally, we can intercut digital with film. It looked remarkably better than the filmed images. I thought I would never be able to say that"

Jon Farhat, VFX Supervisor, "Wanted".

[Brook Willard]

Holy crap...

Are they using the new sensor board or the "old" one?

[Antoine Baumann]

yes baby!!! that's fantastic!!!


ahahahahah, just want to shoot with your revolutionary camera, Mr Jannard.

antoine.

[number6]

Well, now we can remove all those "film vs digital" threads from the forum.

[Kevin Halverson]

Wow!!

[Mark Crabtree]

Better highlights. Plus all the other benefits. No hairs in the gate, no scratched by the lab, no waiting. And on and on. So are we finally going to say it.

Film is inferior.

Now!

[Anders Holck]

http://www.kino.de/pix/newspics/GALERIE/180704_4.jpg
Mu-ah-ha-ha-ha-ha!

Great news!

[Greg Voevodsky]

Wow. Can't wait to see how it would compare with 70mm. Any chance that the FX crew might be shooting some 70mm for compositing shots?

[Gunleik Groven]

I really needed this!

G

[Tom Lowe]

Word up.

[Steve Gibby]

That's great news Jim!

Thanks for that update...

[HD Hildebrand]

Anybody wanna' buy some film cameras? Time to off-load.

[Thom Steinhoff]

You know, I was just about to get back to work and thought "let me give RedUser one last look just in case..." and BAM!!!

Very exciting! I CAN'T WAIT!!!

[Peter McCully]

I believe everything I red.

[Anders Holck]

5218 is a iso 500T negative film (if anyone wonders)

[Brook Willard]

It's also the same stock I used in the comparisons I put on the 2nd page of the FAQ.

[Scott Webster]

Link Jon Farhat imdb (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0267331/)

[David Battistella]

Congratulations!

The train is just starting to roll.

David

[Anders Holck]

Wow, Brook! Nice update on the FAQ!

[Elijah Kelley]

It's beautiful when hype is no longer hype just plain fact.


Jim,
Were the iso pics you posted the same board/chip or were they from an updated hardware build?

[Curran Giddens]

That is an excellent quote! I wonder how long it will take for the History Channel's "Man, Moment, Machine" to do a show on Jim Jannard. I made a new signature that I think is appropriate:

"Film is dead.... Long live RED!

[Joe Aurili]

Of course it's better then film, why wouldn't it be??? :)

[Don Woods]

That is fantastic

[Zakaree Sandberg]

obviously!

[albert rudnicki]

I feel bad for Kodak...

[Blayne Gorum]

A wider dynamic range than 5218 stock? Amazing.

[albert rudnicki]

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/products/negative/tech5218.jhtml?id=0.1.4.4.4.16.4&lc=en

[Zakaree Sandberg]

I feel bad for Kodak...

I feel bad for everyone...
except sony.. for some reason I could care less about them

[Petr Dvorak]

Jons web

http://www.jfi.net/

[Curran Giddens]

I feel bad for everyone...
except sony.. for some reason I could care less about them

Yeah, me too. Nobody can compete with Red! Especially with all the other new products in the works....

[Sam Druckerman]

Rockin!!!

This is just the begging guy's...

YES!

[Gregory Karydis]

I like the fact that there is something that wants to be called a competition to RED, just gives an example of how RED is supperior :)

Jim if you can bring us a quote like that every week we will be happy campers until every camera is delivered :)

[Steve Freebairn]

"We're shooting RED side by side film. We scanned the film 4k and took both into the Baselight, compared them and then did a filmout of both. When we screened side by side, we literally could not tell the difference. In fact, most people picked the RED footage as film because of a greater dynamic range in the highlights than in the 5218. It's not enough to say it is the best digital image out there. The fact is, finally, we can intercut digital with film. It looked remarkably better than the filmed images. I thought I would never be able to say that"

Jon Farhat, VFX Supervisor, "Wanted".

And to think of all the badmouthing digital got while I was in Film school :) This is great news!

[laguun]

"We're shooting RED side by side film. We scanned the film 4k and took both into the Baselight, compared them and then did a filmout of both. When we screened side by side, we literally could not tell the difference. In fact, most people picked the RED footage as film because of a greater dynamic range in the highlights than in the 5218. It's not enough to say it is the best digital image out there. The fact is, finally, we can intercut digital with film. It looked remarkably better than the filmed images. I thought I would never be able to say that"

Jon Farhat, VFX Supervisor, "Wanted".

and another excellent testimonial. every single dp/director/vfx supervisor using red so far made -spectacular- remarks. outstanding.

[david farland]

Well done Jim,

So the latest film stock to get these days is Mysterium 320!

Cheers,

[Alexander Nikishin]

Kodak, schmodak.

[Ace]

Keeps getting better and better. Its good to know that there are notable 3rd parties out there putting the camera through its paces and confirming everyone's hopes for the good thing. Rodney Charters was right, revolution isnt a strong a word.

http://kyoproject.com/absolut.jpg

[Dexter Gregoire]

That's great, so does that mean we're ready to go into production now? Two weeks early?

That would be even better news!

[JD Holloway]

Giggling like a schoolgirl here!

5218s versatile stuff.
I wonder about slower stocks too.
I hope SS gives does more testing.
Great news.

[PaulClements]

That's a great quote Jim, thanks very much for sharing as usual.

[Rick Darge]

amazing..

this camera better be better than the iphone

hehe

[Poi Boy]

where did that come from ?? my iphone is amazing.
Aloha
-A

[Ray Flynn]

jim,

that has to make you smile. i am wearing one right now.

[LighthouseMEdia]

R.I.P.
1888-2007
FILM a good friend, dearly beloved, who will be missed for his
contribution in life, and he will be missed in death. RED was to
great a foe.

[Seth Larney]

Congrats Jim, this is pretty astounding news :)

[ChristopherKenworthy]

Back in the 70s, when I was about 7 years old, I taught myself to load film into an 8mm camera. Not too difficult, but it was a bit of a hassle, especially with those tiny 4 minute spools I was using. In 1982 I got my hands on an overgrown video camera. It produced a horrendous VHS image that wasn't much better than a security camera, but you could just pop a tape in and shoot for half an hour. I remember thinking, way back then, "Wouldn't it be great to have the quality of film and the simplicity of tape." I never guessed we'd do better than that, and beat film stock in a tapeless workflow. This latest news makes me happy.

[Adam Jeal]

Thank you very much for this news Jim. I just wrapped a shoot for an FX laden music video shot on 5218 two days ago! - This just gets better and better!

I really appriciate all the hard work you guys are putting in:ninja: :ninja: :ninja:

All the best,

adam

[Adam Jeal]

amazing..

this camera better be better than the iphone

hehe

I think that's pretty much a dead-cert Richard :biggrin:

[jbeale]

...did a filmout of both. When we screened side by side, we literally could not tell the difference.

This is surprising to me. Doesn't film normally show a lot more grain than the Red image? I conclude that the grain in the negative must be negligible compared with the grain in the print stock?

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Awesome.... now when does it ship? ;)

[JD Holloway]

5218 is typically pretty grainy and not the best dynamic range.
Now against 5201... for a tough test!

[Paul Hazlett]

5201...5202, whatever it takes.....

[Desert Rune]

Film has more of an emotional aesthetic RED will never duplicate.

</ducks>

[Jim Arthurs]

I conclude that the grain in the negative must be negligible compared with the grain in the print stock?

No, not with normally processed print stock. Print stock has VERY low ASA and very fine grain...

[ChristopherKenworthy]

Film has more of an emotional aesthetic RED will never duplicate.

</ducks>

You could be right. But I'll spend the next few years trying to prove you wrong.

[jaadgy akanni]

Film has more of an emotional aesthetic RED will never duplicate.

</ducks>

And vice versa!!!


So we're even:devil:

"truth is not kind...I say neither is RED....that's why love it"

[Paul Hazlett]

Film has more of an emotional aesthetic RED will never duplicate.

</ducks>


Now that sound like an old qoute from someone reading "Stereo Review"
in the early 80's in the CD versus LP war.

heheh

[Peter McCully]

Now that sound like an old qoute from someone reading "Stereo Review"
in the early 80's in the CD versus LP war.

heheh

Indeed. Except Red is to film what Super Audio is to vinyl.

[jaadgy akanni]

Now that sound like an old qoute from someone reading "Stereo Review"
in the early 80's in the CD versus LP war.

heheh

Ditto. That reminds me of Pearl Jam back in the '90's still trying to resuscitate Vynil. Some people find it hard to come to terms with the revolution of evolution...whatever that means...lol

[Poi Boy]

Film has more of an emotional aesthetic RED will never duplicate.

</ducks>

Nonsense, film has GRAIN not emotional aesthetic.

-A

[albert rudnicki]

What was the red ISO set to ?
Could we see the comparison ?
PLEASE!

[laguun]

Film has more of an emotional aesthetic RED will never duplicate.

no, you are wrong, film is more threedimensional as it has several depthlayers!

[Alexander Nikishin]

Film has more of an emotional aesthetic RED will never duplicate.

Yawn.

Emotional responses come from watching a good actor, not grain.

[Paul Hazlett]

no, you are wrong, film is more threedimensional as it has several depthlayers!

and more perfs

[ChristopherKenworthy]

Film has more of an emotional aesthetic RED will never duplicate.

</ducks>

I certainly get emotional when film ****s up, as it so often does, in the camera, at the lab...

But to get this back on topic - Red is better than film!!!! Everyone who uses it says so.

I'm just having fun, and reminding everybody that this thread is about a Red user saying that he found he could seamlessly intercut Red with film. It's a big wow.

[laguun]

I feel bad for Kodak...
"Soon, I'm not going to be answering questions about film because I won't know. It will be too small for me to get involved."
Antonio Perez, CEO, Kodak. 01/2006.
http://us.ft.com/ftgateway/superpage.ft?news_id=fto012520061604394761&referrer_id=yahoofinance

and they sure have fun blowing their photopaper manufacturing buildings...
http://tomhoehn.1000words.kodak.com/default.asp?item=635313

[GlennChan]

1- Was some sort of 3D LUT applied to the Red footage? Film sort of bends colors around, which the Red doesn't/shouldn't naturally do.

2- Did they compare the suitability of Red versus film for effects work? From what I've heard, 500ASA stocks are terrible for VFX work (though I don't know if that applies to this/every stock). I would expect Red to kick some serious butt in this regard... the image is so clean.

[Keith Nealy]

It appears that because RED RAW delivers a clean, pristine, grainless image, what ever "emotional aesthetic" you care to achieve can be added in post.

And then that can be changed again in the future to achieve another look.

We are entering into a new era, thanks to you Jim.

I'm betting on an Academy Award for Technical Achievement.

aloha,

Keith

[jaadgy akanni]

To those of you who, like I, never experienced and will never experience the nightmares of working with film...ain't it great to be alive while REd's in the world!!!

[Greg Voevodsky]

Nonsense, film has GRAIN not emotional aesthetic.

-A

GRAIN is SAD and that is an emotional aesthetic. ;-)
My Silicon Valley friends were all complaining how bad the movies looked compared to 'clean HD' on their new TVs. The aesthetic is already changing.

Grain is BAD and SAD like the old record players pops and hiss. For the high tech crowd, film is already dead. The real question is how do we compress without noise (or grain!). ;-)

I think the grainy look will leave us faster than black and white. So shoot clean clean clean... or you will not be seen!

Reminds me of the film editors who loved the feel of film. We said then, tape a piece of film to your AVID and feel it any time you like. For grainy film lovers, you might need a sand storm a la Iraq in your living room to add texture and grain to your clean ultra HD / RED images. ;-)

[Casey Green]

Thanks for the quote, Jim. The momentum just keeps building.

[Jaime Vallés]

Fantastic news, Jim! I love that years from now I'll be able to say that I was there when...

Congrats on the great feedback!

[Jannard]

Part of the "feel" of film is that is shot at 24fps (progressive) and video was, until very recently, shot at 60i. Digital made a big step by enabling 24P the past few years.

Another reason why film "feels" right is that it is typically shot on a full frame 35mm sensor with nice shallow DOF vs. the typical video standard of 2/3" which struggles to get the same focus "feeling".

While it is true that film has grain, many DP's would love to shoot 65mm to minimize that aspect of film. RED does not sharpen the edges to find resolution... which is another 1080P trick to maintain resolution during a blow-up.

There are lots of factors why something looks good and "feels" right. Not just film grain. IMHO.

Jim

[Shawn Nelson]

Let us not forget that the goal is to capture life. Film was merely a tech in the way towards thats goal. Before that was metal plates, etc. Film disrupted other tech, and now Red has surpassed that. Let's keep the main thing the main thing, and not fall in love with the means to the end.

[Casey Green]

Part of the "feel" of film is that is shot at 24fps (progressive) and video was, until very recently, shot at 60i. Digital made a big step by enabling 24P the past few years.

Another reason why film "feels" right is that it is typically shot on a full frame 35mm sensor with nice shallow DOF vs. the typical video standard of 2/3" which struggles to get the same focus "feeling".

While it is true that film has grain, many DP's would love to shoot 65mm to minimize that aspect of film. RED does not sharpen the edges to find resolution... which is another 1080P trick to maintain resolution during a blow-up.

There are lots of factors why something looks good and "feels" right. Not just film grain. IMHO.

Jim

Indeed. I believe another factor is what the brain imagines in between the frames of 24fps. In video at 60i, there is more information in a given amount of time, less "gaps", so the brain does not have to "fill in the blanks" of motion and story as much. This presents a different feeling when watching 24p vs 30p, 60i, etc.

[David Battistella]

There is a lot of talk about feel and frame rates but I am always amazed by how long film has lasted. It's a pretty wondrous technology.

Film has been around for about 100 years so we do have to have some respect for the technology and it's endurance. If I were to introduce any technology today and say that in 100 years it would still be a major technological standard I'm sure that I'd get pelted.

Film's time may have come but that does not mean we should not honor how well it has served us.

Let's hope that the technologies that replace film will be as enduring. Here's to RED and the long tail!

David

[Greg Voevodsky]

Let us not forget that the goal is to capture life. Film was merely a tech in the way towards thats goal. Before that was metal plates, etc. Film disrupted other tech, and now Red has surpassed that. Let's keep the main thing the main thing, and not fall in love with the means to the end.

Shawn, I 'hollywood' love most of your posts... but outside of military and practical uses of film.. it is about deceiving and creating something new like fiction writing. So called "news" or "documentaries" that by definition have a point of view like Fox news or 60 minutes, are creating a reality.

I love my cars and cameras and photoshop that allow me and other artists to express myself and influence others. WE LOVE OUR TOYS - CARS, CAMERAS, AND OTHER 'HUMANS'. ;-)

The goal in Hollywood and elseware is NOT to capture life - much like a political ad - but to express oneself, entertain people, and influence people. And like money, glamor, hollywood, and other sins... they are what we love... fast cars, cool jets, awesome cameras, and other money making toys... lets not get sacred here... RED is a God send. ;-) and Jim is our savior from $1 a foot of film.... Thank you.... or God bless for the religious folkes. ;-)

[JD Holloway]

Lets not forget that 60p may be on the horizen (if distant) as a broadcast standard. It seems pretty important in Asia anyway where I understand they rather like it for its ultra-real effect. It would be amazing for sports/news and wildlife.

[Jaime Vallés]

Interlacing is evil. I look forward to watching sports on 60p.

[killfilm]

Jim, sometimes i think you use my nick as a motivation, i cant wait to meet up with my ex film teacher who told me "digital just simply cant match or compete with celluloid"

Too excited and wanna say :F&^%$en awesome:)

[Shawn Nelson]

Greg, I meant to capture your perspective on life. I agree with you, it's not capturing truth, but capturing life, however you want that to be. Film was simply a means. It surpassed something else, and now it has been surpassed.

[Jason Francois]

Great quote. Thanks for that.

To think that at one point I would have been likely to get in a barroom brawl over the film vs. digital debate (on the film side).

[Antoine Fabi]

Greatest of all news ever.

The second greatest is that i ordered one.

The third greatest...it works !!!!! (maybe this one should be listed as first...) he he...

thanks for the info Jim.

[Antoine Fabi]

Part of the "feel" of film is that is shot at 24fps (progressive) and video was, until very recently, shot at 60i. Digital made a big step by enabling 24P the past few years.

Another reason why film "feels" right is that it is typically shot on a full frame 35mm sensor with nice shallow DOF vs. the typical video standard of 2/3" which struggles to get the same focus "feeling".

While it is true that film has grain, many DP's would love to shoot 65mm to minimize that aspect of film. RED does not sharpen the edges to find resolution... which is another 1080P trick to maintain resolution during a blow-up.

There are lots of factors why something looks good and "feels" right. Not just film grain. IMHO.

Jim

Film, for me, really has an emotional feel i like but can't explain.
Never had that feeling with digital acquisition until i saw PJ Crossing the line at NAB. It looked so close...it was beautifull.

...and it seems it can look even better ? GREAT !!!!!
Not only it will be more conveniant than film, it will be even more pleasant to work with this camera !

[JasonAvalos]

this makes me so sure that telling the ultimate stories with this camera is FIRST PRIORITY!! in the words of DOC. BROWN of BACK TO THE FUTURE......"ROADS?.......WHERE WE'RE GOING WE DON'T NEED ...ROADS."
WOOHOOO!!

[Sanjin Jukic]

Of course it's better then film, why wouldn't it be??? :)

I claimed the same a long ago.

[Petr Dvorak]

Film is/was just amazing technology!
Its only expensive and its a mess to deal with it - thats what we hate.
Red digicinema is simple and very very handy - thats what ve love. Plus no grain etc.

Yes RED cinema is just new amazing technology.
Thanx for it.

[Mardi_Gras]

When we talk about "feel" and how this relates to film vs digital, I will have to maintain that this will remain a subjective appeal. Film enthusiasts and buffs will forever be loyal to film and what the "smell, feel and texture" of film does to their senses and sensibilities. I have worked with 35mm film, I have also worked in the digital HD format, but I have never been so eager about embracing the digital format as I have been, since reserving the R1.

The film vs digital wars will continue, Red, however, knocks them both out of the park. Its the dawn of the RedOne format. "Out with the old and cubersome, in with the new and tidy" is the way I see it.

[Hoffmann Films]

Jim, thats another notch on the belt for RED, these boards seem to be getting better and better.........