720p@120fps or 2K@96fps? From 35mm or S16mm part of the sensor?

[Emanuel A.]

We don't have to change anything... it was just a thought. But we don't have the space to do everything. We can leave the spec as it is OR we can get creative at the last minute. I don't really care either way. I'll shoot 4K at 24fps to CF or either 720P @ 120fps or 2K at 96fps to CF. My personal preference is 2K @ 96fps, but I'm just one customer. If the majority wants 720P @ 120fps... that's what we'll do. We can't do both. In hindsight, we would have put in a bigger FPGA (not available when we started) but then the price of the camera would be $4K more expensive. Choices... choices.

Jim

LINK (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?p=63020#post63020)

Jim left here the motto. We're all here his followers. We owe him our recent and upcoming happiness and sunny future. However, this doesn't necessarily mean we should be with him in all his thoughts or suggestions. For example, I'd like to have 2K scaled and it seems we can't go in any way other than as windowed from the S16mm part of the sensor when we're going to 2K.

RGB, for instance, could be and would be a more interesting bet than 2K just because it came up from the full 35mm size sensor. Including 35mm --> 1080/60p @REDCODE realm IS better than any other option coming from the half of the 35mm sensor, IMHO. Or have I been drunk?... ;-)

But, I'd be glad if there will be a 2K scaled from the 35mm indeed. And I'm sorry my lack of democracy sense here but you all should ask it beyond my will or from anyone in these same boards.

It seems RGB is not an easy task nor welcome at 1st release, at least.

However, we have choices. This is what does mean to live in a democracy. Jim knows it more than anyone else here. His success, wherever he is. And actually, his choice is 50% the same than mine. LOL

The other 50%, well, it's also in your hands. Exercise your will and needs.


EDIT -- There's no multiple choice, of course. The Jim's post is clear as key word: choices.

[Darwin]

Emanuel,

Thank you, This poll was needed! However I think if you can get 2k/96 you could get both windowed and scaled, could you not?

[Emanuel A.]

Unfortunately not now, as it is possible to check here:

http://www.red.com/formatoptions.shtml

This was the great specs change on the format options before Christmas.

[Martin Drew]

So if I am reading it right the 2K scaled option would not be RAW it would be RGB.

M

[Mike Zinner]

I also don't think that "scaled" will work and I also don't think that there will be 100fps. So the poll is a bit misleading right now. So it would be better to reset it to 720p@120fps vs. 2K@96fps as long as not that many people have voted.

[Jochen Schmidt-Hambrock]

And the main difference between scaled and windowed is DOF, right?

Jochen

[Anders Holck]

The main difference is that the Mysterium chip can only do 60 fps in full 35mm crop.
2K@96fps scaled is impossible, because you are scaling from 4k which is 60fps max.

As the imager chip can do up to 120 fps at 2k cropped, it's (according to Jim) now possible to do 2K@96fps cropped with the limit being the compression power on the FPGA.

As many as have voted to the last option in this poll, it's not possible, unless they reengineer the imager.

[Emanuel A.]

I also don't think that "scaled" will work and I also don't think that there will be 100fps. So the poll is a bit misleading right now. So it would be better to reset it to 720p@120fps vs. 2K@96fps as long as not that many people have voted.I understand and subscribe your feelings Mike but this poll is not science! :)


The idea is to put some things on the table in order to the discussion (isn't it one of the aims of any thread in any forum?)


A) The beef is between 720p/120fps vs. 2K/96fps;


but there are other issues:


B) I could never figure out why we could have 1080/60fps RGB with the REDCODE from the 35mm sensor size but not 2K scaled;


BB) Why is 2K scaled gone?


C) The europeans have always seen the american standards ruling their own lives instead more convergence. At least, before the media convergence age. Why? Because we are always the first to shut up when they're deciding with which standards we'll deal with. It's not properly the case of RED. But Jim had all night long spreading their 96fps standard and beyond myself, I didn't check anyone to raise the level of his/her/their/our voice saying: "hey, we are here". OK, there's an excuse: the europeans were sleeping in the meantime. While America is fighting for their own standards. But later, there won't be more place to debates genre why PAL is better and NTSC is there.


:-)

[Anders Holck]

I believe scaled 2k Redcode RGB went away because of the performance of 4k Redcode RAW.

[Anders Holck]

A flickerfree 100fps speed would indeed be great for us europeans :-)

[Mr. Paul White]

The main difference is that the Mysterium chip can only do 60 fps in full 35mm crop.
2K@96fps scaled is impossible, because you are scaling from 4k which is 60fps max.So be it. But Emanuel is right. Why 2k scaled is not there. 60 fps extracted from the 35 mm would rock. Why 1080p RGB and not REDcode RAW at 2k?

[Anders Holck]

They don't offer RAW scaling. 2k@60p scaled would have to be RGB.

2k scaled Redcode RGB at 60fps would theoretically be possible, but they have chosen to concentrate on 1080 and 720 as the only RGB resolutions.

2k and 4k is clearly aimed at Cinema where RAW is more important than high framerates. For broadcast all you need is 1080 anyways.

There is no doubt onboard 4k@60 RAW would be amazing, but the power is not there unfortunately.

[Mr. Paul White]

I believe scaled 2k Redcode RGB went away because of the performance of 4k Redcode RAW.

Makes sense at 24/25 fps. Not when 60 fps is confined to the 1080p. Over crank at 2k (DCI) extracted from 35 mm is not the same than over crank at 1080 RGB. 60 fps, 96 fps (who cares?). Extracted from S16 is worst. No matter if it is 2k. It's not 35 mm.

[Martin Drew]

C) The europeans have always seen the american standards ruling their own lives instead more convergence. At least, before the media convergence age. Why? Because we are always the first to shut up when they're deciding with which standards we'll deal with. It's not properly the case of RED. But Jim had all night long spreading their 96fps standard and beyond myself, I didn't check anyone to raise the level of his/her/their/our voice saying: "hey, we are here". OK, there's an excuse: the europeans were sleeping in the meantime. While America is fighting for their own standards. But later, there won't be more place to debates genre why PAL is better and NTSC is there.
:-)

The format is either going to be Redcode RAW or Recode RGB, it is not PAL or NTSC coded. The only difference is on playback so you won't get more than 96fps it is just that if you playback at 25fps you are looking at approximately quarter speed slomo as compared to approximately third speed for 30fps.

If you are playing back at 24fps this is a totally moot point, you will get spot on quarter speed.

M

[Curran Giddens]

I would have to change my vote from the scaled 2k@96fps to windowed 2k@96fps if the RAW can't be scaled. I always want to shoot RAW....

[albert rudnicki]

99% of time you'll be shooting at 24-fps (30), you can do it in 4K raw.
However in those few occasions when you need a slow-mo, the 2K scaled would be crucial.
Cropping can become a nightmare in a long project. Imagine some of the action scenes (300), inter-cutting from scaled to full frame-ugrhhhh.
Albert
www.yayofilms.com

[albert rudnicki]

I would have to change my vote from the scaled 2k@96fps to windowed 2k@96fps if the RAW can't be scaled. I always want to shoot RAW....

99% of time you'll be shooting at 24-fps (30), you can do it in 4K raw.
However in those few occasions when you need a slow-mo, the 2K scaled would be crucial.
Cropping can become a nightmare in a long project. Imagine some of the action scenes (300), inter-cutting from croped to full frame-ugrhhhh.

Albert
www.yayofilms.com

[Nils Ruinet]

I voted for "2K@96fps windowed (or 100fps for us PAL guys!) from the S16mm part of the sensor", as from my understanding the third option isn't possible, at least not in RAW. I think you can't scale RAW...

And yes, please try to reach 100fps for us european people...

[Eirik Tyrihjel]

What matters most to me is What can be recorded to either CF or RED DRIVE, will we be able to get 96 fps a 2k to either of the previously mentioned, or is all this for RED RAW PORT and a "disk-fridge" that costs 100KUS$?

If 96 fps a 2k vs 120 fps a 720p are both recordable to a medium that is affordable, I would say 96fps at a full 2K resolution sounds awfully tempting.

However if it is 120fps at 720p to CF/REDDRIVE v/s 96fps to some unobtainable recording medium, I´d stay with 720p anyday.

Both would be best of course...

[Anders Holck]

Yes we are talking onboard Redcode RAW recording.

[Joe Carney]

I would like to change my vote to 2k windowed. Nothing wrong with using S16 lenses. Sometimes you want deeper depth of field.

Joe C.

[Paolo Tinari]

Off topic:
Anders, what the hell of a steady reel. wow.

[Jason Murphy]

I move that this poll is closed down and reworked with only the options that are feasible, namely

720p@120fps from the S16mm part of the sensor

and

2K@96fps windowed from the S16mm part of the sensor

Otherwise, the poll seems kind of useless, unless we're establishing that most of us want the impossible. (or at least the currently impossible)

Any seconds?

[Nils Ruinet]

What matters most to me is What can be recorded to either CF or RED DRIVE, will we be able to get 96 fps a 2k to either of the previously mentioned, or is all this for RED RAW PORT and a "disk-fridge" that costs 100KUS$?

Eirik,
2K@96fps would be recorded on CF / Reddrive, no RAW-port needed for this :


......I'll shoot 4K at 24fps to CF or either 720P @ 120fps or 2K at 96fps to CF. My personal preference is 2K @ 96fps, but I'm just one customer. ......
Jim

[Anders Holck]

Off topic:
Anders, what the hell of a steady reel. wow.

Thanks!

[Zach Hilton]

I voted for 2K @ 96fps scaled because I would like to have the choice of having shallower depth of field if I want. If it's not possible with scaling the image, I still vote for 2K @ 96fps, no matter how it is achieved.

[Rocket]

I would like to change my vote to 2k windowed. Nothing wrong with using S16 lenses. Sometimes you want deeper depth of field.

I'm confused, wouldn't windowed 2K with S16mm lenses result in a shallower depth of field than full frame with 35mm lenses? (aperture and all other things equal).

And then Strongbad_2Z's statement also doesn't make sense to me. A scaled 2K image would have the same "deeper" depth of field of the full 35mm frame exposed through 35mm lenses not a shallower depth of field.

Can someone clarify?

[Anders Holck]

If you keep the FOV the same, by adjusting the lens length between the two image sizes, then:
35mm=narrower DOF / Bokeh more out of focus
16mm=wider DOF / Bokeh more in focus

[Obin Olson]

I want scaled on every mode, who wants to shoot 16mm sized images with a s35mm sized camera? seems backwards, scale it all down from the 35mm sized sensor Jim!!

[Emanuel A.]

Obin, same feeling here. I never understood why so much wow thing with 2K. It's slight(ly) 1080p with steroids [ = 6.(6)% ] :)

The 35mm sensor is THE achievement.


I would like to change my vote to 2k windowed. Nothing wrong with using S16 lenses. Sometimes you want deeper depth of field.

Joe C.What the hell, Joe?

You can go with deep DOF with 35mm. And with the RED glass... But we'll begin normal as focal length if we'll shoot 2K using them.

[Dominic Jones]

OK, I think it needs to be stated again that (unless something very serious has changed in the recent past) 2K scaled RAW is not possible... So we need to drop it from our thinking.

Obviously if we could get a 96fps image with 35mm characteristics in RAW at any sensible resolution that would be great, but from my understanding that's not on the table - the choice is between 720p RGB @120fps and 2K RAW @ 96fps (both windowed).

As long as we're talking Redcode RAW recording onboard (i.e. no RAIDs!) then I for one am all for 96fps @ 2K...

EDIT: Assuming I'm correct and scaled raw remains off the menu, I guess the issue is do we assume that all who voted for 96fps 2K scaled would move their votes to 96fps 2K windowed?? That would give 96fps 2K windowed a massive 86% of the votes as it currently stands!

[Kevin Halverson]

I would like to change my vote to 2k windowed. Nothing wrong with using S16 lenses. Sometimes you want deeper depth of field.

Joe C.

Indeed, nothing at all wrong with a Superspeed T1.3!

The windowed mode is a really important feature to me. A single camera that can emulate both S35 and S16 would cover all my current and anticipated needs. The occasions where greater than 400% overcrank isn't adequate will be extremely rare for my needs.

[Rocket]

If you keep the FOV the same, by adjusting the lens length between the two image sizes, then:
35mm=narrower DOF / Bokeh more out of focus
16mm=wider DOF / Bokeh more in focus

Ah, I had my definitions the wrong way around. :wacko: Thanks! :biggrin:

[Emanuel A.]

Obin, same feeling here. I never understood why so much wow thing with 2K. It's slight(ly) 1080p with steroids [ = 6.(6)% ] :)I meant 2K windowed. 2K scaled is another ballpark. ;-)

35mm: this size doesn't necessarily mean shallow DOF or even a DOF paradigma; there's more beyond the use of 35mm and its higher resolution = (the) better picture quality is just another layer.

[Antoine Baumann]

BB) Why is 2K scaled gone?

as Anders already answeared, 2K scaled was considedred to be too close to 1080p scaled and so was abandonned.

I confirm that if you scale the image you don't get the RAW.
So for cinema style shooting, you will always go for 4K or 2K RAW
You cannot get a scaled RAW, and I think RAW is also an achievement, like the 35mm sized sensor.
Then again the sensor cannot record more than 60fps if you record from the whole sensor. So for high frame rate you must window the sensor.
Then the choise is between a 2K @ 96fps, or 720p @ 120fps both from the windowed sensor. For me the choise would be 2K @ 96fps, because you will generaly retouch it in post anyway, so you can extrapolate the inbetween frames.

Now for broadcast 1080p and 720p RGB make sens, but you can always extract them from the 4K-2K RAW. The only disadventage would be the processing time, on which we don't have precise idea, isn't it?
If processing time is fast, then why bother for RGB?

You could always record by the HD-SDI port to a HDCAM-SR deck, but what exactly would you get ? 1080p scaled, windowed?


How do you think 4K scaled to 2K in REDCINE, will intercut with 2K windowed?
Because for me 2K as always be the post production resolution I am thinking for finishing before printing back to film.


antoine.

[Rocket]

my head hurts :wacko:

[Emanuel A.]

The windowed mode is a really important feature to me. A single camera that can emulate both S35 and S16 would cover all my current and anticipated needs. The occasions where greater than 400% overcrank isn't adequate will be extremely rare for my needs.Well, there you have a point. But sometimes, it seems strange to forget who born first. The egg or the chicken?

[Antoine Baumann]

Well I think if you record on a HD deck via the HD-SDI you will get a scaled 1080p.

antoine.

[Anders Holck]

You should be able to get both scaled and cropped out the HD-SDI, depending on format setting, both will be 1080p/i.

[Emanuel A.]

as Anders already answeared, 2K scaled was considedred to be too close to 1080p scaled and so was abandonned.It would make more sense to abandon 1080 RGB than 2K RGB. At least, to my knowledge.


I confirm that if you scale the image you don't get the RAW.
So for cinema style shooting, you will always go for 4K or 2K RAW
You cannot get a scaled RAW, and I think RAW is also an achievement, like the 35mm sized sensor.
Then again the sensor cannot record more than 60fps if you record from the whole sensor. So for high frame rate you must window the sensor.
Then the choise is between a 2K @ 96fps, or 720p @ 120fps both from the windowed sensor. For me the choise would be 2K @ 96fps, because you will generaly retouch it in post anyway, so you can extrapolate the inbetween frames.

Now for broadcast 1080p and 720p RGB make sens, but you can always extract them from the 4K-2K RAW. The only disadventage would be the processing time, on which we don't have precise idea, isn't it?
If processing time is fast, then why bother for RGB?

You could always record by the HD-SDI port to a HDCAM-SR deck, but what exactly would you get ? 1080p scaled, windowed?


How do you think 4K scaled to 2K in REDCINE, will intercut with 2K windowed?
Because for me 2K as always be the post production resolution I am thinking for finishing before printing back to film.


antoine.Good points here, And that's why I defend 35mm --> 4K RAW/2K scaled RGB for slowmotion purposes (as someone already said: I don't care if it will be @96fps or @60fps though I believe both might be possible @windowed and @scaled modes, respectively). So, 2K windowed would just be a third choice for who have this particular need. By this order.

[Floris Liesker]

Why are people saying it so important for us europeans to have 100fps? As if anybody would notice the difference between 96 fps and 100 fps.
The only thing I could think of is if you want a band to lipsync in a music video. 100 fps would call for an audio playback at exactly 25% speed, which is probably easier to remember than 26,0416666%, the speed you would need when recording at 96 fps. Other than that I cannot come up with a good reason for 100 fps.

[Paul Hazlett]

Well I think if you record on a HD deck via the HD-SDI you will get a scaled 1080p.

antoine.

If this is a viable option and proven to work, or better yet HD-sdi with embeded audio, everybody wins! SDI port for those that need to give a tape at the end of the day to a producer or for broadcast and more slow mo for those that need it.

[Nils Ruinet]

Why is it so important for us europeans to have 100fps? Would anybody notice the difference between something that has been recorded at 96 fps or at 100 fps?
The only thing I could think of is if you want a band to lipsync in a music video. 100 fps would call for an audio playback at exactly 25% speed, which is probably easier to remember than 26,0416666%, the speed you would need when recording at 96 fps. Other than that I cannot come up with a good reason for 100 fps.

I think you may have more flicker issues with some lights at 96 fps than at 100fps...

[Emanuel A.]

The format is either going to be Redcode RAW or Recode RGB, it is not PAL or NTSC coded. The only difference is on playback so you won't get more than 96fps it is just that if you playback at 25fps you are looking at approximately quarter speed slomo as compared to approximately third speed for 30fps.

If you are playing back at 24fps this is a totally moot point, you will get spot on quarter speed.

M
Why are people saying it so important for us europeans to have 100fps? As if anybody would notice the difference between 96 fps and 100 fps.
The only thing I could think of is if you want a band to lipsync in a music video. 100 fps would call for an audio playback at exactly 25% speed, which is probably easier to remember than 26,0416666%, the speed you would need when recording at 96 fps. Other than that I cannot come up with a good reason for 100 fps.

Martin and Floris, PAL vs. NTSC is not more an issue but 50Hz vs. 60Hz is not gone. 24fps is an "Edison legacy" even if the "poor" :) inventor probably didn't notice the difference beyond the 18fps. But with the talkies, we lost the flickering proof. Our lighting setups would appreciate.

[Kevin Halverson]

I think you may have more flicker issues with some lights at 96 fps than at 100fps...

This is really only a concern with magnetic ballast sources in a 50Hz environment. Flicker free (high frequency) is the only way to go when you are shooting off speed due to the much greater sensitivity with shorter exposure periods.

[Antoine Baumann]

It would make more sense to abandon 1080 RGB than 2K RGB. At least, to my knowledge.

I think the logic behind this is if you go RAW, you shoot cine style, and if you go RGB, then you more in the boradcast style so 1080p is more what you need. A 2K RGB would always have to be scaled/croped to 1080p.


So, 2K windowed would just be a third choice for who have this particular need. By this order.

Yes I think the same, more option is better, but Jim has stated that they cannot provide all the option and choise must be made. It begins with choose between 720p@120fps or 2K@96fps but not both. I don't have read all the post, but even if I did, not sure I would have understand why you cannot have both.

antoine.

[Mick van Rossum, NSC]

This is really only a concern with magnetic ballast sources in a 50Hz environment. Flicker free (high frequency) is the only way to go when you are shooting off speed due to the much greater sensitivity with shorter exposure periods.

Well. there is a very important thing; fluorescent lighting in "natural" environments, streetlights, trainstations, etcetera; they can be 50hz and will give flicker. However if my memory serves me right there is a solution in altering the shutter angle so one still has 1/50th of a second exposure time . (I don't have my ASC manual at hand) probably to an angle of 188 degrees or so....

cheers

Mick van Rossum NSC

[Anders Holck]

However if my memory serves me right there is a solution in altering the shutter angle so one still has 1/50th of a second exposure time

Yes setting the shutter to be a multiple of the AC frequency will most likely defeat the flicker.

But you obviously cant get a 1/50 sec shutter when shooting 96 fps as the base 180° shutter would be 1/192 sec. A 1/200 sec shutter might do the trick though. That would be 172.8°

[Mick van Rossum, NSC]

Yes setting the shutter to be a multiple of the AC frequency will most likely defeat the flicker.

But you obviously cant get a 1/50 sec shutter when shooting 96 fps as the base 180° shutter would be 1/192 sec. A 1/200 sec shutter might do the trick though, I think that is 172.8°


ofcourse, my bad....

cheers

Mick van Rossum NSC

[Kevin Halverson]

Well. there is a very important thing; fluorescent lighting in "natural" environments, streetlights, trainstations, etcetera; they can be 50hz and will give flicker. However if my memory serves me right there is a solution in altering the shutter angle so one still has 1/50th of a second exposure time . (I don't have my ASC manual at hand) probably to an angle of 188 degrees or so....

cheers

Mick van Rossum NSC

Its 172.8 degrees, but this still doesn't take into account the problems that can arise when shooting off speed. The sensitivity to flicker increases and at 400% over crank counting on flicker free performance (even if you nail the shutter angle / frame rate) with "natural" lighting is asking for problems.

[Floris Liesker]

I think flicker issues in 50 hz countries can only be avoided by using fps that are exact divisions of 50, like 50 fps, 25 fps, 16.6666666 fps, 12.5 fps and so on.
Any recording above 50fps could show flicker, regardless if it's an exact multiplication of 50 or not.
It seems some people assume there is a mathematical connection between recording speed and playback speed and therefore ask for 100 fps.

[Anders Holck]

187.5° at 96 fps is 1/184.32 sec. not a clean multiple of 50.

And you are correct it's a hit and miss. Fortunately there is instant playback on the RED, so you dont have to wait for the dailies to see that you fucked up :-)

[Kevin Halverson]

Yeah, my mistake. Its 172.8 degrees not 187.5.

[Thom Steinhoff]

in voting between the two real options (720p cropped@120fps vs 2k cropped at 96fps) my vote is definately for the 2K/96.

2K Redcode Raw scaled is just not possible so the winning vote doesn't make any sense. Hopefully someone will close this thread and start one that actually makes sense.

[Emanuel A.]

Thom, sometimes in life, there are a lot of things which don't make sense. And actually do (or vice versa). Michelangelo's death, for example.

Behind the poll, there's a claim. If you do not understand it, please let who does it.

IMHO, 35mm acquisition does all the sense. 2K REDCODE RAW scaled is not mandatory. It can be 2K REDCODE RGB scaled or don't you agree? :-)

To my knowledge, 2K windowed doesn't make sense at all when (beyond the higher frame rate exception):
a) (especially) the typical RED shooter is investing $34,000 in RED glass or am I wrong?
b) (after all) it would be possible to have better 2K scaled.

RGB? As far as possible. Why not?

The poll can serve to claim:
1) 720p/120fps -- it doesn't seem so!
2) your beloved 2K windowed @96fps -- Jim's motto
3) my beloved 2K REDCODE RGB scaled no matters at whatever frame rate! -- and it seems there's who has been thinking the same...

Is it clear enough?

EDIT -- Sorry my rant but I've been terribly sad with such news on this (these) most recent world's loss(es) instead any pathetic technology issue.

[Häakon]

2K Redcode Raw scaled is just not possible so the winning vote doesn't make any sense. Hopefully someone will close this thread and start one that actually makes sense.
Well the poll doesn't say anything about "2K scaled RAW;" we all know that RAW cannot be scaled so the only way the poll makes sense is that you assume that 2K scaled means an RGB image. And perhaps a scaled image at which we can get faster framerates could certainly be beneficial to some. However, I propose that if you're going to be scaling the 4K image in camera you should do it to 1080 - not 2K. What are you going to do with a scaled 2K image? It's not taking advantage of a smaller window so you still need the 35mm glass, and most likely your HD delivery output will be 1080, not "2K" - which means having to go through an additional post process step and shrinking the 2K footage ever so slightly to become a 1080 frame. This just doesn't make much sense to me.

I think a better poll would be do you care about having a windowed sensor out of your full 35mm frame, and if not, would you find a 1080p scaled option valuable? It's clear by the poll views that what people really want is their 35mm DOF and the highest framerates possible. Unfortunately, at this time, the sensor can't take 96 4K images every second and scale them down to a 2K-sized image so the question is essentially moot.

[Antoine Baumann]

Well the poll doesn't say anything about "2K scaled RAW;" we all know that RAW cannot be scaled so the only way the poll makes sense is that you assume that 2K scaled means an RGB image

yes but we know the sensor max is 60p when using all of it...so 96fps can only be window.


antoine.

[Joe Carney]

If we drop 720/1080p does that mean the sdi outputs go too? Or will they still be available for on set video preview/assist.

[Emanuel A.]

yes but we know the sensor max is 60p when using all of it...so 96fps can only be window.


antoine.Antoine,

I believe the two options (scaled and windowed) should be available there. There won't be more claims on more choices.

Emanuel

[Anders Holck]

If we drop 720/1080p does that mean the sdi outputs go too? Or will they still be available for on set video preview/assist.

Of course not :-) I dont think anyone would give them away

[laguun]

Martin and Floris, PAL vs. NTSC is not more an issue but 50Hz vs. 60Hz is not gone. 24fps is an "Edison legacy" even if the "poor" :) inventor probably didn't notice the difference beyond the 18fps. But with the talkies, we lost the flickering proof. Our lighting setups would appreciate.

hey, a started another thread in order to introduce some of the problems we would have to face with "only" 96p and not 100p:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3461

[Emanuel A.]

Thanks Jan.

E.

[Jannard]

The main difference is that the Mysterium chip can only do 60 fps in full 35mm crop.
2K@96fps scaled is impossible, because you are scaling from 4k which is 60fps max.

As the imager chip can do up to 120 fps at 2k cropped, it's (according to Jim) now possible to do 2K@96fps cropped with the limit being the compression power on the FPGA.

As many as have voted to the last option in this poll, it's not possible, unless they reengineer the imager.

You are correct. #3 is not an option. But we are looking at the 2k (cropped) at 100fps possibility.

Jim

[Gregory Karydis]

I think I have an idea of how you could take advantage of the 4K@60fps to output 2K@240fps using the full size of the CMOS at full 35mm crop.
Interested?

[laguun]

You are correct. #3 is not an option. But we are looking at the 2k (cropped) at 100fps possibility.

Jim

excellent.

[albert rudnicki]

CROP IS CRAP
Albert

[laguun]

CROP IS CRAP
Albert

farmers might disagree.
scnr.

[Emanuel A.]

CROP IS CRAP
AlbertYEAH indeed!

[Emanuel A.]

You are correct. #3 is not an option. But we are looking at the 2k (cropped) at 100fps possibility.

JimJim,

Thanks for your PAL care -- we need it!

On the #3 option, I hope at least the philosophy behind and beyond this "my" option can be.
Likely it was and has been for more than 130 voters representing more than 72% of us.

As well, I think you should be happy with the results.
It seemed you had thought you'd give up your wanted 2K@96fps and now you/we have these results (90% is a lot).

E.

[Thom Steinhoff]

You are correct. #3 is not an option. But we are looking at the 2k (cropped) at 100fps possibility.

Jim

Bringing up a very old concept, what about shooting 2K worth of cropped pixels, just in an academy wide aspect ratio to maximize usable pixels?

How fast could we look at driving that?

[Seth Larney]

Bringing up a very old concept, what about shooting 2K worth of cropped pixels, just in an academy wide aspect ratio to maximize usable pixels?

How fast could we look at driving that?

This would be an extremely useful function for us cinema shooters.

[Don King]

Jim,

Thanks for your PAL care -- we need it!

On the #3 option, I hope at least the philosophy behind and beyond this "my" option can be.
Likely it was and has been for more than 130 voters representing more than 72% of us.

The message is clear.

[zak forrest]

i dont care, no matter what its gonna kick so much ass

[Priyesh P.]

You are correct. #3 is not an option. But we are looking at the 2k (cropped) at 100fps possibility.

Jim

That's why I voted for number 2, number 3 isn't possible, so why vote for it in the first place?

[Don King]

There is a lot of misinformation over here and over there. Possible or not, to have or not to have 35mm acquisition, there's the question.

[Don King]

Thank you all for your votes.