Transporting Lenses Do and Don't!!

[KETCH ROSSi]

Okay, after been witness to an AC prepping a set of Primes and two Zooms, for transport, after all lenses were collectively cleaned after an a long day of tests, I fill the need to share my opinion about the right way to do it.

Also because this days I see more then one way of how people carry their Expensive gear, especially lenses in the most wrong of ways.


Is common sense to think that you should ALWAYS carry the lenses in sturdy cases and that you should ALWAYS make sure that the Foam Padding in your case supports the weight of the lens, fully and does not allow for the lens to travel either way, or touch one an other.

Now what some people might not know is the proper way a lens should be stored in this protective customized cases, and for those that don't know I like to share the following:


A) Always have their manufacturers cups on, to protect the lens form dust particles, and other elements.

B) Always Turn the focus ring to infinite, this will protect the internal focus mechanism.

C) Always Open the Aperture to the maximum (wide open), as to protect the Iris Blades.

D) With Zooms, especially the larger ones, but all of them in general, they should be set to minimum or maximum, but never left in the middle, to avoid damage to the zoom mechanism.

So i the case of my RPZ 18-85 I leave it always to its maximum zoom range of 85mm.

Now if in the case of zooms which do not have IF (internal focusing) then in this cases, and only in this cases you need to turn the zoom to its minimum, insuring that no extra stress is added by leaving the internal zooming elements extended.

This are by far the most important steps you can take to protect your investment, and insure that the lenses will work properly in between service calls, making those service call far apart from each other as much as possible, avoiding costly repairs.


An other thing to consider is the way you carry the lenses and zooms, meaning the position in which they seat, in their foam insert cut outs, and on this I have always found argument every time I opened my lens cases were all my lenses had the front element facing up, mind you this were Canon "L" series lens, not Cine lenses which tend to be more delicate then still lenses do to their weight and I prefer them facing down.



Share your toughs, and lets take better care of our lenses.

ciao

[Zac C]

This is really good to know Ketch, though I've handled a few lenses in my short time, I've always acted as though I was holding the holy grail transporting lenses from one place to another...

I just treat all my old Nikons like keys in my pocket, so to the unsuspecting it'd look as if I don't care, but anything not mine is a egg on a spoon.


thanks for putting this up,
Zac

[KETCH ROSSi]

This is really good to know Ketch, though I've handled a few lenses in my short time, I've always acted as though I was holding the holy grail transporting lenses from one place to another...

I just treat all my old Nikons like keys in my pocket, so to the unsuspecting it'd look as if I don't care, but anything not mine is a egg on a spoon.


thanks for putting this up,
Zac


My pleasure Zac, usually they tell me that its just gear, and it will get used marks, and some scratches and so on, but even my C-stands look great :)

The more technology advances and the more the gear becomes liable to fail you, if you don't take care of it will fail you.


ciao

[Ryan S]

My experience with cine lenses to date has only been a shoot with an abused old set of Mark I Super Speeds, and I still treated them like precious jewels. Although I didn't know about B or C, I'll be sure to keep these tips in mind for future rentals, and my own kit down the road...

With regards to cases, I recall a discussion on this forum where it was suggested that Pelican pick'n'pluck foam should be avoided, but I can't seem to locate it.

Ketch, I always seem to learn something new by reading your posts, keep it coming!

[ericyoung]

Pick 'n' pluck foam is fine to start with or if you really look after it. Problem is that it tends to break apart in use (because it's cubed!) and leave little bits of foam everywhere. So medium to long term it's probably better to get custom cut foam.

Good advice Ketch on the four points.

As to orientation, I suspect there won't be any consensus as cases can be dropped in any orientation, and a hard enough drop to do damage through a flightcase will just cause different damage depending on that direction?

[KETCH ROSSi]

Yes the pick N' pluck foam will definitely not do, at list not with out been sprayed after fitting with a special solution which bounds the foam together, avoiding its braking up, and limiting the flying around of foam particles, which do get in and around your lenses and other gear, so at the end I stay away from pick N' pluck all together and only get customized Cut Outs from professional manufacturers such Innerspace, and Louis there is a great guy.


On the orientation of the lenses when carried has been an argument with no strait or single answer, but I remain of the idea that large lenses, Primes or Zooms should be stored and carried side ways, as the rest of the Primes I usually have carried them with the Front element facing up, but with Cine lenses now I see that carrying the lenses facing down makes it more convenient to put down and pick up.

ciao

[Mitch Gross]

Cases get placed this way and that all the time. Many briefcase-shaped cases sit lying down but are immediately picked up for transport or storage, turning the lens on it's side or on end.

Lenses are designed to handle such forces and it is not really a big deal. The more important issue is the orientation of the lens when one tries to remove it from the case. Don't want to drop it! If a long, heavy lens is pointing straight up or down, then someone may accidentally try to lift it by the rear cap or a small ring like the iris. That really wears down the lens as these bits are not designed to torsionally support the entire lens, especially as the orientation is shifted in one's hands. Not a big deal on a small, lightweight lens.

[KETCH ROSSi]

This were my toughs on large lenses as well Mitch and this is why I prefer and suggest the Lay down on the side way of transporting, but what about the standard Prime sets of lenses, would you say that is better to put them facing down or facing up? Such as for the design of the RPP's which way would you think this lenses are better stored, especially for what you just mentioned, when putting them down and or picking them up?

ciao

[Harry Clark]

Yes; zooms and heavy telephotos sideways.
I would say primes with the rear element down always.
I also like my cutouts to be soft (medium density) foam on the bottom and hard (high density) foam glued to the top 1" so the cutouts retain their shape and there is less shed.
I also like "convoluted" foam in the lid the protrudes a bit so that the lid squishes the lenses into the soft foam below (ever so slightly) and then if the case gets upended as Mitch has suggested, there is some give towards the lid to cushion the impact.
I'm always amazed how airline baggage handlers dump the cases upside down on the belt when all of my cases have a convenient handle in the lid! And most PAs, while smart and dedicated, will stack the cases any which way that most effectively jams them into the cube truck (at least here in NY)
A&J has been very good at foaming out cases to my specs. Never had a problem.
Cheers,
Harry

[Steve Gibby]

I'm always amazed how airline baggage handlers dump the cases upside down on the belt when all of my cases have a convenient handle in the lid! And most PAs, while smart and dedicated, will stack the cases any which way that most effectively jams them into the cube truck (at least here in NY)

Very good advice Ketch, Harry, and others here...

Ahh... airline baggage handlers...

Me and my crews used to check cameras and lenses, and constantly had problems with equipment when we got on location. One day when I was sitting by the window on a flight while it was loading, I happened to watch some baggage handlers pull up with a loaded cart and proceed to put the bags on a conveyer belt which carried them up to the aircraft baggage compartment. To my utter horror I watched them drop on the concrete three of our camera and lens cases, one from as high as 5 feet! I was freaking out - nose against the window - waving and gesturing - to no avail!

You guessed it - on location we had a lot of equipment problems - but I'd finally figured out the source of them. Ever since then we carry-on camera bodies, and key lenses, and ship the other equipment to the location via FEDEX or UPS. The frequent equipment problems simply stopped.

Obviously in today's airline business carry-on baggage is limited in weight. I've found that airlines give me some slack when I tell them what I do, my hesitation to check delicate camera equipment into baggage, how much I fly with them, etc. If I do have to pay for excess weight of a carry-on item, I do so gladly. The cost of that is worth the peace of mind on location, and the savings in repair bills from my equipment being abused by airline baggage handlers.

[Harry Clark]

Yes, good advice on the carry on, Steve.
I should point out that I try to carry on what I can. Superspeeds in a photo backpack or a Tenba stills bag. Red or broadcast camera in the Port-Brace in the overhead. Larger lenses; S4's (ugh), zooms, and accessories unfortunately in the plane's belly.
I, too, have seen the tarmac bounce. VERY disturbing.
Cheers,
Harry

[KETCH ROSSi]

Yes Steve, def carrying the Camera and Lenses with you on flights is great, when ever you can do so, as you mentioned, because of weight, and size more then weight, the carry-on limits you a lot on what you can carry.

Few times I have found possible letting other passengers carry one or two extra bags for me, abusing my Handicap card :), but this is got more difficult given current times.

Either way, I will not ever ship out the camera body, no matter what, Camera body, Lap Top and Drives full of captured media, always come with me, if I have the possibility for lenses to come to then count on it, even if we each carry two or three lenses well bubble rapped in our back packs.

When soon to travel will require the use of the 18-85, you can count on that coming on board with us :), then back in its case when we land.

ciao

[Charles Angus]

I've always seen primes front-side up when put in the case, with the lens size written on the lens cap for easy identification.

[David Wyatt]

I remember a few years ago filming "backstage" at an airport in France (through which incidentally our camera gear came in and went out!) and was stunned to see an inexplicable five foot drop from where the conveyor belts ended and the outside tarmac began (that was a hard landing!). At the time I thought "how hard could it be to design some kind of gradual slope or whatever", but something told me this wasn't high on their agenda :nonod:

[Mitch Gross]

Such as for the design of the RPP's which way would you think this lenses are better stored, especially for what you just mentioned, when putting them down and or picking them up?

RPPs would be front element facing up, although I might go for a case layout that had the two big ones on their side (so darn big). If an RPP was face down, then the first real grasp point would be the iris ring, and it would be used to lift about seven pounds of glass and metal. This on a ring that is being pulled laterally to its normal direction of turn, and one with fine thin mechanical blades attached within as well. Not a great idea.

[John Fairstein]

This is great info, thank you. Ketch mentioned cleaning lenses. In my photography teaching days, I noticed students wiping their lenses with shirt sleeves, etc. I realized they thought the lens glass was hard like window glass or pint glass. But optical glass is softer. Nowadays hard coatings help protect lenses, but care should be exercised when cleaning, especially with older lenses. My own habits are:
- Never clean a lens unless it is necessary.
- When necessary, gently clean the lens: blow the lens off with lung air, use quality lens tissue, and lens cleaning fluid.
- And as you have stated, keep the lens capped.

[KETCH ROSSi]

RPPs would be front element facing up, although I might go for a case layout that had the two big ones on their side (so darn big). If an RPP was face down, then the first real grasp point would be the iris ring, and it would be used to lift about seven pounds of glass and metal. This on a ring that is being pulled laterally to its normal direction of turn, and one with fine thin mechanical blades attached within as well. Not a great idea.

At last the answer I was looking for Mitch :)

For those that have worked with me, and seen the several cases of lenses I brought to the jobs, I have always put the lens front element "FACING UP" and not just because of the convenience of been able to mark the Focal on the cap, easy to fetch for my Assistants, but because I always tough that it would just be better for the lens not to be lifted up by its rear end :)

Unfortunately, there is also to say that this way is easy to lift the lens up by the front cup, and drop it mid hair if grip is lost, so for any lens above a certain weight and size I'll definitely continue to go with the Side way method of storing,m carrying g and shipping.

In fact I think that for the RPP's my customized case will see the lenses all side ways.



*Welcome John, and also great point on cleaning.

ciao

[malc84]

I would like to say to the question of handling lenses. The truth is that they are jewels. Every high end rental house uses A & J cases for all of their equipment. So should you as owner operator. It is the industry standard from Panavision to Clairmount to CSC. If your in a run and gun situation lenses should always be packed with caps. The same is true for you mount. Always use a turret plug. Personally I don't like to clean lenses because the coating does wear with contact. It's chemical. So I always watch carefully where I place my hands when handling a lens. Go and spend the money and buy pancro to clean your glass. Having worked at a rental house myself I can tell you the tech in most houses use acetone and pancro to clean lenses. The dry fast and dont remove coatings. If you have to remove dust go to a drugstore and buy a blower bulb from the baby section. They are big and dont use propellant.

[KETCH ROSSi]

Good tips thanks to chip in.

ciao

[Emanuel A.]

Okay, after been witness to an AC prepping a set of Primes and two Zooms, for transport, after all lenses were collectively cleaned after an a long day of tests, I fill the need to share my opinion about the right way to do it.

Also because this days I see more then one way of how people carry their Expensive gear, especially lenses in the most wrong of ways.


Is common sense to think that you should ALWAYS carry the lenses in sturdy cases and that you should ALWAYS make sure that the Foam Padding in your case supports the weight of the lens, fully and does not allow for the lens to travel either way, or touch one an other.

Now what some people might not know is the proper way a lens should be stored in this protective customized cases, and for those that don't know I like to share the following:


A) Always have their manufacturers cups on, to protect the lens form dust particles, and other elements.

B) Always Turn the focus ring to infinite, this will protect the internal focus mechanism.

C) Always Open the Aperture to the maximum, as to protect the Iris Blades.

D) With Zooms, especially the larger ones, but all of them in general, they should be set to minimum or maximum, but never left in the middle, to avoid damage to the zoom mechanism.

This are by far the most important steps you can take to protect your investment, and insure that the lenses will work properly in between service calls, making those service call far apart from each other as much as possible, avoiding costly repairs.


An other thing to consider is the way you carry the lenses and zooms, meaning the position in which they seat, in their foam insert cut outs, and on this I have always found argument every time I opened my lens cases were all my lenses had the front element facing up, mind you this were Canon "L" series lens, not Cine lenses which tend to be more delicate then still lenses.

Then other times I have been told, great I see that you carry your lenses the right way.

So on this I welcome experts of the fields to jump in and suggest the most proper use of carrying Pro lenses to and from the set, and most particularly for long travels.

(...)

Share your toughs, and lets take better care of our lenses.

ciaoYou are a (our) star, my friend. Thanks for sharing! Hope to see you around soon (sorry LV fellows!).

My Best Wishes from your own country
and another glass addicted,

Emanuel :-)

[Pawel Achtel]

I think the biggest killers of lenses (and cameras) are dust and moisture. For this reason I always use air/water tight Pelican cases containing desiccant.

I use padded dividers and wrap lenses in micro fibre cloth or extra foam.

I never check-in lenses, that's for sure.

[Fredrik Callinggard]

RPPs would be front element facing up, although I might go for a case layout that had the two big ones on their side (so darn big). If an RPP was face down, then the first real grasp point would be the iris ring, and it would be used to lift about seven pounds of glass and metal. This on a ring that is being pulled laterally to its normal direction of turn, and one with fine thin mechanical blades attached within as well. Not a great idea.

This would go for Master Primes as well.

[Fredrik Callinggard]

I never check-in lenses, that's for sure.

So what do you do when you have a set of 14? :eek:

[Pawel Achtel]

So what do you do when you have a set of 14? :eek:

Drive.:laugh:

[KETCH ROSSi]

Ciao Emanuel good to see you pop in here :)

You are right Pawel, and this is one of the reasons, I'm currently in the process of providing additional customized weatherized ATA cases from Innerspace, I have used Pelican for many years, and only recently switched to Storm's because of their better latch system, at list to me and to my uses, this cases provide the absolute best and superior protection against humidity and dust, but unfortunately they do not provide the much needed protection as the ATA hard cases do, like say when an Idiot on set decides to use the case as a chair with his lovely admirer sitting in his lap, and they sit right on the center of the case, inevitably Pelican/Storm cases do bend and the entire weight goes on to what ever you are carrying, NO GOOD!

NOnetheless we are also designing cutouts for the Storm cases, for lightweight and best weatherized protection on ocean and mountain excursions :)

I also always carry camera body and lenses on planes, always, even if I have to ask some one to help, which I did a lot :)

Never do the lenses and camera go below, never!

ciao

[Dave Blackham]

Very good advice Ketch, Harry, and others here...

Ahh... airline baggage handlers...

Me and my crews used to check cameras and lenses, and constantly had problems with equipment when we got on location. One day when I was sitting by the window on a flight while it was loading, I happened to watch some baggage handlers pull up with a loaded cart and proceed to put the bags on a conveyer belt which carried them up to the aircraft baggage compartment. To my utter horror I watched them drop on the concrete three of our camera and lens cases, one from as high as 5 feet! I was freaking out - nose against the window - waving and gesturing - to no avail!

You guessed it - on location we had a lot of equipment problems - but I'd finally figured out the source of them. Ever since then we carry-on camera bodies, and key lenses, and ship the other equipment to the location via FEDEX or UPS. The frequent equipment problems simply stopped.

Obviously in today's airline business carry-on baggage is limited in weight. I've found that airlines give me some slack when I tell them what I do, my hesitation to check delicate camera equipment into baggage, how much I fly with them, etc. If I do have to pay for excess weight of a carry-on item, I do so gladly. The cost of that is worth the peace of mind on location, and the savings in repair bills from my equipment being abused by airline baggage handlers.

Once when boarding a plane in the lounge the bagage loading was in our view from the window, I saw our camera case 'loaded' from the truck on to the airplane conveyer. The case was thrown from the truck on to the conveyer about 8 feet along with the other equipment cases. The camera did survive but needed reline up, we replaced the case by reclaiming costs from the airline company. Regularly I've seen equipment clattering down the baggage reclaim conveyers at Heatherow which are devices known to damage kit as the case slides down a ramp stopped by the fence and then becomes congested with other equipment. Inspite of being marked fragile do not drop in big writing. These baggage handling companies are completely irresponsible.

My rule for packing is if you are not confident in droping the case from the rear of a truck to the ground then the contents most likely wont survive.

[Brent J. Craig]

My rule for packing is if you are not confident in droping the case from the rear of a truck to the ground then the contents most likely wont survive.

And that is the key point. If you are designing cases for delicate gear, you need to know just how fragile your gear is, and how cushioning materials actually work. Every type of foam has a certain amount of 'give' that absorbs impact to the gear it is protecting. Think about the possible bumps and drops your case will receive, and the physics of those impacts.



From: http://www.pelicancasesbycasescases.com/foam_cushion_systems.html

There are 4 variables that aid us in determining the appropriate cushion design for your equipment:

Fragility. The fragility is the level of shock in g's that your equipment can withstand. Often commercial electronic equipment can withstand a shock of approximately 30'gs. Optical equipment and space payloads can withstand shock levels of less than 10g's. Mechanical assemblies are often quite robust and can withstand much higher g inputs. Fragility is often not known and is estimated.

Drop height. Cases-Cases utilizes drop heights as one of the "available" variables in cushion system design. Many military programs and specifications detail the drop heights of certain items. The MIL-STD 810E details the drop height that a case must pass based on total case and equipment weight as well as container size. If your application is for shipping or use as checked baggage, we design for a 30" drop.

Sway Space/Cushion Thickness. In a perfect world, Cases-Cases could design containers and cushioning systems and not be limited by available case sizes, case weights, and limitations of how the cases are going to be shipped. Since those and other variables are involved in container design, we often have to compromise between case size and sway space or cushion complexity (cost) vs. case size.

Density of Equipment. The density of the equipment is the weight divided by the weight bearing surface. The density of the equipment aids us in determining the correct foam type to use as well as the correct amount of bearing surface. Foam cushioning materials have different optimum load ranges, as detailed in the custom case interiors section of Cases-Cases.com



People check camera gear as baggage all the time. If you are smart and careful with your case designs and understand how and why energy is dissipated by cushioning materials, you can safely check just about anything. I certainly don't want to be sitting beside you on an airplane with your camera and all of your lenses in carry-ons! (and no, you may not use the extra space under MY seat for your gear!) Traveling with gear is enough of a hassle already, I can't imagine needing to hump it all to the gate and into the airplane cabin!

[KETCH ROSSi]

Very Good points Brent, but I must say, even so I have been respecting carefully all the rules of packing, I still will not check them in, simply because in some country there is a notorious amount of stolen gear, electronics are at the highest!

Especially in today's regulatory scanning for explosive and other harmful items, and this check scans are done both at the origin and destination, what is worst is that there are some wireless portable units that airport workers use to check luggage that they might think contains valuables worth stilling, unfortunately I'm very sad to say that Italy, my own beloved country is one of such places were this happens.

So be very conscious of your decision, it will go smoothly for many shipping, and then it happens, and it is Game Over!

ciao

[Liam Hall]

One day when I was sitting by the window on a flight while it was loading, I happened to watch some baggage handlers pull up with a loaded cart and proceed to put the bags on a conveyer belt which carried them up to the aircraft baggage compartment. To my utter horror I watched them drop on the concrete three of our camera and lens cases, one from as high as 5 feet! I was freaking out - nose against the window - waving and gesturing - to no avail!

The exact same thing happened to me. If it was a shiny flight case they tossed it down the conveyer belt, if it was a peli case they threw it. They ignored all of out luggage though.

My advice pack your most expensive and fragile items in the most nondescript and unassuming case! I also recommend placing used underwear in your hand luggage, not because it will stop you getting searched but it sure will put a smile on your face when some over zealous, power crazed loon is abusing you at airport security.

[Radim Schreiber]

Was this united by any chance? United breaks guitars:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YGc4zOqozo

I also bring camera and lens as carry on.

:-D
Radim


Very good advice Ketch, Harry, and others here...

Ahh... airline baggage handlers...

Me and my crews used to check cameras and lenses, and constantly had problems with equipment when we got on location. One day when I was sitting by the window on a flight while it was loading, I happened to watch some baggage handlers pull up with a loaded cart and proceed to put the bags on a conveyer belt which carried them up to the aircraft baggage compartment. To my utter horror I watched them drop on the concrete three of our camera and lens cases, one from as high as 5 feet! I was freaking out - nose against the window - waving and gesturing - to no avail!

You guessed it - on location we had a lot of equipment problems - but I'd finally figured out the source of them. Ever since then we carry-on camera bodies, and key lenses, and ship the other equipment to the location via FEDEX or UPS. The frequent equipment problems simply stopped.

Obviously in today's airline business carry-on baggage is limited in weight. I've found that airlines give me some slack when I tell them what I do, my hesitation to check delicate camera equipment into baggage, how much I fly with them, etc. If I do have to pay for excess weight of a carry-on item, I do so gladly. The cost of that is worth the peace of mind on location, and the savings in repair bills from my equipment being abused by airline baggage handlers.

[Miguel "Macgregor" De Olaso]

Photography lenses should be stored with the front element facing down. This is to prevent the oil from the focusing rings to get into the iris blades.

[Frank Weeks]

Photography lenses should be stored with the front element facing down. This is to prevent the oil from the focusing rings to get into the iris blades.

I hope that will not be a problem for RPPs. The Red case only allows for the front element facing up.

[Peter Strietmann]

Can't imagine schlepping all that gear around on layovers going from terminals that are great distances apart. I think that is what flight cases and insurance is for.

[KETCH ROSSi]

Photography lenses should be stored with the front element facing down. This is to prevent the oil from the focusing rings to get into the iris blades.

Correct for Still lenses, but I have been tough that it is not so for Cine Lenses, an then again I continue to see Cine Lenses in both directions, this is why I posed the Q? I actually I did carry the Canon's "L" series facing up.


I hope that will not be a problem for RPPs. The Red case only allows for the front element facing up.

Actually Frank if you see the various pics here of the RED Case all the RPP's are facing down, but also Mitch agrees that the RPP's should actually be facing UP. But in truth, I prefer them on their side.


Can't imagine schlepping all that gear around on layovers going from terminals that are great distances apart. I think that is what flight cases and insurance is for.

Sure Peter, but when you travel for a Job and your gear gets stolen or badly damaged, go and wait for the Insurance, and you will also have lost the JOb.

So Unless absolutely Impossible, I will always take Camera and Lenses in the Plane with me, and I recommend to any one to do the same.

ciao

[KETCH ROSSi]

Hi, quick question. Been on vacation for a few weeks, and when I got back into work and pulled out our 18-50 I found that it wont zoom past 25mm-ish. Anyone encountered this before? It had just come back from service at RED and hadnt been out on any jobs, could it be due to mishandling of cases? Our equipment store had been refitted while I was away and all the gear had been moved into other rooms. (apparently by the carpenters!)

Anyone have any ideas? Or should I send it to RED?

As I mention here, all lenses during transport should always be put with focus to INFINITY, APERTURE WIDE OPEN, and ZOOMS zoomed al the way out.

sorry about your issue, but this is the wrong place to post, shoot RED an email, or start a post addressing your issue, so that people see the title and go in to that thread for your specific reason.

ciao

[Andrew clemson]

Sorry, shall do.

[KETCH ROSSi]

Sorry, shall do.

No problem at all Andrew, just want to make sure you do what is best to get your answer.

ciao

[Cail Young]

Andrew, we had that happen on initial shipment of our first 18-50 - if it's within warranty RED will fix it for free, otherwise any lens tech should be able to un-stick it.

[Rich Schaefer]

Great thread Ketch!

I want to throw my 2 cents in for thought. I used to transport my lenses (20+) at infinity but I switched when a lens tech suggested I should. His reasoning was the internal rails or channels that the optics travel on, might get dinged with travel. He suggested to keep the zoom on the wide end because a bump in the travel might not be noticeable like it would be on the long end. Also keep the focus at minimum because it will probably be used a lot less that at infinity. His point was choose where you put the bump. Of course then get it repaired.

Also, I think cine lens grease can begin to move or flow if very hot. So if it's 110 degrees and the black lens is in the sun, I would be very worried about my lens and its grease moving.

Prost,
Rich

[KETCH ROSSi]

Thanks Rich, and also thanks for sharing your tough and experience, however I must insist that you do keep your Zoom to the minimum or maximum setting, preferably to the maximum, but some zooms that are not IF then will be set to the minimum, the aperture always wide open and at last the Focusing must be set to Infinity, as this far more protects the internal focusing elements then the opposite, for more then one technical reason.

So the best thing to do in order to make sure to do things right set the focus to Infinite, the zoom to the maximum, in my case the RPZ 18-85 will always sleep and transport set at its maximum zoom range of 85mm while its focus always set to infinity, and the Aperture must always and absolutely all ways be set to Wide open, as to insure that the petal blades are tucked away.


Above statement are not from personal opinion but from knowledge gained thru out my many years in the industry, never a professional AC nor have I held a position in any set, but I have been in so many and have had the pleasure to learn so much from some of the best in the business, which patiently answered the many questions I always had about everything, plus I did studied a tone too :)

Any way, I can't remember how long it has been since I first learned this stuff, but I do remember particularly to have also read it on a very popular and respected book in the business, to which I was recommended by many years ago, just can't recall the name of the book, sorry, but I followed this rules ever since.

[Dave Blackham]

Thanks Rich, and also thanks for sharing your tough and experience, however I must insist that you do keep your Zoom to the minimum or maximum setting, preferably to the maximum, but some zooms that are not IF then will be set to the minimum, the aperture always wide open and at last the Focusing must be set to Infinity, as this far more protects the internal focusing elements then the opposite, for more then one technical reason.

So the best thing to do in order to make sure to do things right set the focus to Infinite, the zoom to the maximum, in my case the RPZ 18-85 will always sleep and transport set at its maximum zoom range of 85mm while its focus always set to infinity, and the Aperture must always and absolutely all ways be set to Wide open, as to insure that the petal blades are tucked away.


Above statement are not from personal opinion but from knowledge gained thru out my many years in the industry, never a professional AC ncomparativelyor have I held a position in any set, but I have been in so many and have had the pleasure to learn so much from some of the best in the business, which patiently answered the many questions I always had about everything, plus I did studied a tone too :)

Any way, I can't remember how long it has been since I first learned this stuff, but I do remember particularly to have also read it on a very popular and respected book in the business, to which I was recommended by many years ago, just can't recall the name of the book, sorry, but I followed this rules ever since.

If there's a temperature issue caused by sunlight on black cases should lighter coloured cased be used for lenses and probably other equipment by preference. I mention this as many of us use Peli, Storm and other cases these days and most of them are black. Out of 250 or more in our hire stock over 200 are black. There is a 'silver' colour (which is in fact light grey) that might be better suited for lenses. The Aluminium custom flight cases are used far less for our own work as then need to be completely water tight as a good deal of our work is in marine environments. The only down side is some or our work is also at high altitude and a Peli can be slight heavier. We use cases manufactured by Zargess which are extremely light and very strong, water tight and comparatively inexpensive when an off the shelf aluminium case is required.

[Luca Immesi]

As you know, Ketch, I came back to Italy with a lot of stuff this summer. I traveled with an airline company that charged me a quite reasonable price for the extra luggage, less then half compared to shipping with express couriers. My red and the drives where with me on board. When I arrived in Venice in Italy, the tripod was missing. It's arrived the day after at my home with a courier. About the RPP: the case of red works well, it's safe and solid, with the case you will find some foam circles shims, if you put 2/3 shims at the bottom in each of the 5 hole (the holes are 6 but the RPP set lenses are 5 for now) and put the lenses facing up, the part with the front cup of the lens will protrude that bit you need to easily grab the lens. In every set of lenses I've seen Cooke and Zeiss, the lenses were facing up, you can also attach a sticker on the front cup with the size of the lenses (35mm, 25 etc.) as I've seen sometimes. Ciao.

[Jim McKinney]

I got a full-size carry-on bag from Think Tank. I'm able to pack my Red One (stripped down), 5 Zeiss primes, 2 hard drives, a battery, basic 4x5 filters, EVF and 5" LCD along with a couple of cables (in case airport security wants to see the thing actually work). I carry plates, rods, extra batteries and chargers, etc. in my checked baggage.

I've flown to several places around the USA, and so far, this has worked pretty well. Of course, now with my RPP's, I'm trying to figure out how to carry these on.
:-0 (Probably a backpack.)

Has anyone had their carry-on weighed? So far, I've been lucky in this regard.

[Brent J. Craig]

...Also keep the focus at minimum because it will probably be used a lot less that at infinity.

Interesting thought, but most lenses are physically longer at minimum focus, so you'd need bigger cases and/or less foam to make them fit.

[KETCH ROSSi]

Dave, black cases are indeed more sensitive to sunlight, as they will get hotter sooner then any other color, but I do hope that no one leaves the cases on the sun, and when the cases are shaded, then it will make no difference on the color, none!

I have tested this with four color shades, and different cases, and the Peli/Storm are the one that actually do get warmer then standard ATA designed cases, but the temperature was exactly the same across no matter of color.

So get the color cases of your liking, as far as you can keep them out of direct sunlight, color will make NO difference, off course if you know that by NO choice you will have your gear under direct sunlight, then Black is by far the worst color case to have, and you want to go with light color, such as Gray and or silver, as to reflect, at list partially, the sun rays.


Glad to hear that everything when well for you return home Luca, and good thing about the tripod coming back to you soon after been lost, this is a true risk of airlines, and one of the primary reason as to keep as much gear with you as you can.

Yes as I said no matter what you should always try to keep the lenses stored in a position were the front element faces up, form more then one of the reasons already mentioned in this thread, but it is also a good mentioned point, that doing so you can have lenses mm markings on the top cup, so to make it easy for your AC to reach for the right Focal length.

Off course larger lenses such as the 25mm and 35mm and more surely the new to come 18mm and wider, will have to be preferably be stored and transported side ways as I do with the RPZ 18-85 and will do with the RPP 300mm, but I'm in fact thinking of going all side ways carrying for al lenses as this by far will insure a better and more secure and safe storing and grabbing of each lens despite of size and weight.

[Dave Blackham]

Dave, black cases are indeed more sensitive to sunlight, as they will get hotter sooner then any other color, but I do hope that no one leaves the cases on the sun, and when the cases are shaded, then it will make no difference on the color, none!

I have tested this with four color shades, and different cases, and the Peli/Storm are the one that actually do get warmer then standard ATA designed cases, but the temperature was exactly the same across no matter of color.

So get the color cases of your liking, as far as you can keep them out of direct sunlight, color will make NO difference, off course if you know that by NO choice you will have your gear under direct sunlight, then Black is by far the worst color case to have, and you want to go with light color, such as Gray and or silver, as to reflect, at list partially, the sun rays.


Well we try not to leave any cases in the sun but reality is some times it unavoidably happens, Decks of boats and so on. Perhaps I digress, but when working in the mountains and moving around with Yaks which carrying cases they are usually tied on to to a frame on the yaks back. They are then in quite bright sun but this is less of a problem, We always covered them up with a white blanket when we could. The rope that the cases are secured with is tied in some sort of quick release slip knot by the Yak herdsman. To remove the cases from the Yaks back the loose end is pulled and all cases descend to the floor with a big crash. Aluminium cases are less favoured by the Herdsman as they make a bigger crash than the Pelis and the crashing of boxes tend to frighten the yak which then makes a dash for it. I just thought Id mention it....

[KETCH ROSSi]

Hehe, yeah good point as well.

[Andrae Palmer]

Great post Ketch... I've learnt a lot, was doing everything the wrong way. :-)

[Kyle Presley]

I wish I would have reviewed this today... I just sent off my Angenieux 9.5-57mm zoom to be remounted in preparation for Scarlet today... I think I did all of that stuff, but can't remember for sure because I didn't realize the importance of it. Thanks though, Ketch, for future consideration!

[KETCH ROSSi]

My pleasure guys!!

[KETCH ROSSi]

Btw I have been talking to Luis at Innerspace of which products are sold at Abel, and there will be Storm cases with cut outs available as well as the Innerspaca ATA cases specially sealed to provide the professional durability and safety of lenses expected by professionals on set, while delivering some of the added benefits provided by Storm/Pelican cases type.

[Luca Immesi]

Btw I have been talking to Luis at Innerspace of which products are sold at Abel, and there will be Storm cases with cut outs available as well as the Innerspaca ATA cases specially sealed to provide the professional durability and safety of lenses expected by professionals on set, while delivering some of the added benefits provided by Storm/Pelican cases type.
If in case someone don't know the RPP cases are made by Innerspace.

[Mike N]

So in the end what are the best cases to hold our equipment in (lenses included). From what i've read here Storm is the best as it also offers increased protection from dust, water but it's uncool because of being balck it tends to overheat (you can order different colors anyway). I own a couple of Storms and they are very nice but I wouldn't sit on them as I sometimes do on the hardcases because they tend to bend.

Is there a quality difference between AJ and Innerspace ? And what does ATA case mean. Is it the matterial used to make the case ? Does AJ cases use this same ATA material ?

Thanks,
Mihai

[KETCH ROSSi]

So in the end what are the best cases to hold our equipment in (lenses included). From what i've read here Storm is the best as it also offers increased protection from dust, water but it's uncool because of being balck it tends to overheat (you can order different colors anyway). I own a couple of Storms and they are very nice but I wouldn't sit on them as I sometimes do on the hardcases because they tend to bend.

Is there a quality difference between AJ and Innerspace ? And what does ATA case mean. Is it the matterial used to make the case ? Does AJ cases use this same ATA material ?

Thanks,
Mihai


ATA stands for Airline Transport Association of America, and it regulates how cases should be built for safe transport among dictating specification of thickness and materials used in their construction.

The storm cases are great and I own many of them, but they do only serve a limited purpose in the transport of Optics, but even then they need to be fitted with customized cut outs as to insure maximum protection of the Optics and their content, for this together with Luis at Innerspace we talked about fitting the customized cut outs for the Storm cases offering great protection fro the contents, but this again are only, to my advise to be used not on a regular basis but only when dimmed necessary cause you are going to the river, mountain, beach, and wanted the case to be as sealed to the elements as much as possible.

However even in this conditions things are about to change as we are also talking with Innerspace about customizing their Original ATA cases with a special application to seal all its interior components and also apply and exterior rubber ring to the latches as to drastically improve its protection against the elements.

[Mike N]

Thanks for the info Ketch,

But If I have a Storm case with custom foam interior cut to the size of the lenses i'm carying why would an Innerspace or AJ case be better then ?

I mean I don't want to carry 2 types of cases for my gear. One for exterior work and one for "normal" work.

[KETCH ROSSi]

Thanks for the info Ketch,

But If I have a Storm case with custom foam interior cut to the size of the lenses i'm carying why would an Innerspace or AJ case be better then ?

I mean I don't want to carry 2 types of cases for my gear. One for exterior work and one for "normal" work.

Most welcome Mike,

they are very different type of cases built for very different purposes, and while the storm case type will offer the best protection against the elements will never provide with the level of protection in the field and especially on set and in travel as the ATA cases do, and I love the Innerspace designs, which take in consideration the cut out thickness in a serious way and they don't go skimping on it.

Seating on the cases or putting something heavy on top of it were the pressure from the weight it is not well distributed on the corners will make the Storm case swallow in and then jeopardize the content's safety, and thus is why I prefer the ATA to any other case, and if Luis from Innerspace successfully designs the customized sealed AYTA cases as I have asked him to do, then those will replace all my cases, and those will be what I'll be offering to any one else.

We are talking having in some cases a up word of 50K and or more worth of Camera and Glass gear, so spending the few extra dollars very few, and make sure that you get the absolute best protection you can for it is the list you can do for your gear, and the money you spent on it, but also very important is that you do not ever want to be in a situation were you are unable to work cause your gear was damaged on the way there, or while seating there.

[Michael Panfeld]

Hi: just my 2 cents on zooms. Not sure about all other brands, but the LOMO OPF18-1 20-120 zoom requires special care. The focus should be set at the closest setting (1 meter) while the zoom should be at the opposite (brings the elements all the way to the back). Both should be taped down to prevent the lens groups from throwing themselves around (which is common for this lens and has caused many upside down smiles).

[KETCH ROSSi]

Thanks for adding this michael, and yes to my understanding this is only true for the Lomo particular element design.

[Kip Kubin]

Don't know if it was nemtioned yet but the first thing I was ever tought about protocal with respect to lenses or any other case for that matter ist hen when anything is removed from the case one latch whould be securly clasped.

1 - this lets anyone know that the case is not fully packed
2 - if anyone is dumb enough to pick up the case that is not supposed to... to, move it or something nothing can drop out of it on to the floor.

[KETCH ROSSi]

Definitely an other good point.

[Juhan Malmstein]

that's an excellent point. One of the main reasons why lenses might be dropped(on the set) is if some idiot AC leaves the lens case open after hastily grabbing a new lens for a quick change. it's always important to make freaking sure that the lens case is always closed from at least one latch unless there's somebody grabbing something from there.

Another point worth at least a page-long rant is coffee-cups on equipment cases on the set, but that doesn't belong in this thread.

[KETCH ROSSi]

Another point worth at least a page-long rant is coffee-cups on equipment cases on the set, but that doesn't belong in this thread.

Stay put as for this I have been bugging the crap out of Louis at Innerspace to design a customized ATA case smaller, more portable, but more important offering the same protection of the Pelican/Storm case style, were the inside is completely sealed, and has a specially designed closing system to be weather tight!

[Raphael Varandas]

Thanks Ketch, very usefull.
My primes set is in a Pelican i will post some picts...

cheers

[Yecid Jr.]

Hey Ketch (if it's ok to call you by your first name on my first post directed to you),

Thanks for sharing all these tips. I had been using some of the same methods for a while now, but it's good to learn a ton of new tips and the reasons behind them. Also, they will come in even more handy because I'm purchasing my RPPs (with the 18mm and the 300mm) now. Which brings me to my question...

Since we're talking about protection of lenses:

1. I'm thinking of buying protection screw-in filters (or UV filters) for all of them. I see that as the best way of protecting my front elements. Just wonderin...
a) Is it (for some weird reason) not a good idea?
b) I've heard especially with the 300mm it's better to put drop in filters in the back, but I don't know if this applies to UV...can I still protect my front element with a UV? or should I use just an "optical flat" protection filter.

2. Are the filters 105mm?
3. I've seen some 105mm advertised as "coarse thread"...is that a problem? Should I look for "normal" (which I guess is actually fine thread?)

If anyone can answer these, I'd be very thankful. I'm also in a bit of a hurry to know...

Thanks in advance,

Yecid Jr.
Purchasing our 2nd RED ONE...very excited!!!

[KETCH ROSSi]

Hey Ketch (if it's ok to call you by your first name on my first post directed to you),

Thanks for sharing all these tips. I had been using some of the same methods for a while now, but it's good to learn a ton of new tips and the reasons behind them. Also, they will come in even more handy because I'm purchasing my RPPs (with the 18mm and the 300mm) now. Which brings me to my question...

Since we're talking about protection of lenses:

1. I'm thinking of buying protection screw-in filters (or UV filters) for all of them. I see that as the best way of protecting my front elements. Just wonderin...
a) Is it (for some weird reason) not a good idea?
b) I've heard especially with the 300mm it's better to put drop in filters in the back, but I don't know if this applies to UV...can I still protect my front element with a UV? or should I use just an "optical flat" protection filter.

2. Are the filters 105mm?
3. I've seen some 105mm advertised as "coarse thread"...is that a problem? Should I look for "normal" (which I guess is actually fine thread?)

If anyone can answer these, I'd be very thankful. I'm also in a bit of a hurry to know...

Thanks in advance,

Yecid Jr.
Purchasing our 2nd RED ONE...very excited!!!

Hey Yecid, it is not only absolutely okay to call me by my first name, but a must, I would not want you calling me any other names, he he.


The use of Screw in Filters, has always been for directly changing the look of how the image was captured, by the use of various filters with various effects, from Polarizers, Neutral Density standard and "Gradients", Warming filters, Ultra Violet etc. etc. only recently the use of filter become a must on lenses such as many of the Canon "L" series which offer Weather Resistant Lenses, when attached to their Weather Resistant Bodies, such as the new 1D series, this lens will only Truly be Weather Resistant if a Front Screw IN filter is attached.

In this case when the need calls for it the use of a clear UV filter of High Quality is a must, and this do not degrade the image in any way, I have tested over 50 lenses during the last few years, and I firmly can say that image degradation, only happens when low quality filters are used.

Amongst the best are the W+B filters.


Therefor the use of Screw In filters is not to actually protect the front element, but to protect the lens it self, as if and when dust and or moisture enters a lens, only a Professional shop can and only they should open the lens to clean it, from either moisture and or internal dust deposits.

If a lens as Cine Lenses are used, such as the RPP in question, then even with custom screw in filters, there is little protection offered to the lens other then avoiding having to clean the actual front element, instead of the filter, and possibly allowing for preserving the front glass element, as far as dust and moisture, this elements will enter any lens, no matter of cost and or build quality, unless specifically manufactured to be Weather resistant.

Also with Cine Lenses, since many filters are used to get a shot, it is best to not have an additional piece of glass that serves no direct purpose to the capturing of a look, or added to allow the capture of a shot other wise impossible in bright day light, such as in the sue of Neutral Filters of different darkness levels.


So best of luck with your R1's and just make sure that you take good care of the RPP's, no worries about Screw in Filters on them, as this are not the type of lens that you will ever take shooting under the rain, and or in the middle of the desert on a windy day, with out a proper full cover for the entire camera set up.

[Vance Colvig]

If you carefully look at the construction of ATA type cases, you will notice that for the case to be as tight as a Pelican or Storm case, it would have to be sealed at every seam or corner with a flexable sealant such as aviation Pro Seal or maybe a silicone product. There would have to be a continous seal between the lid and the base of the case. Damage incurred to these two mating surfaces would probably invalidate the seal.

The military has probably the most experience with the shipping and transport of some very expensive and delicate equipment. They use Pelican type cases all of the time. The original Red One case was (and maybe still is) a Pelican. They isolate the contents with foam and it seems to serve them well.

Don't want the contents of the case to get hot, then put shade or a space blanket on it. Don't want someone to sit or stand on it, placard it "NO STEP NO SIT".

I have noticed that the "art" of closing and latching of cases has not been well transfered the latest generation of up and coming movie makers, at least here in California. Forty years ago, that was the first lesson for a second assistant to learn. If that second assistant neglected that rule even once, they were out looking for a new job the next day. That is how basic and important it was then. It is still just as basic and important now because the consiquences to the equipment are the same, just not the personnel. Times have changed.

By the way, Innerspace does a wonderful job on foam cuts for Pelican and Storm cases as do some others. Just my 2 cents.

[KETCH ROSSi]

Yes Vance, the most important thing when carrying equipment in Weather, Dust proof cases such as Pelican, Storm and others it is imperative that the "O" Ring be in absolutely perfect status or the Weather Proofing would be compromised!!

[MichaelHalsell]

Grazie per l'informazione Ketch

[KETCH ROSSi]

Grazie per l'informazione Ketch

Prego Michael ;~)

[Ritesh Krishnamurthy]

Hi,
We use our Red (with 18-50) for documentaries & nature shoots. Offlate we've been carrying the Red with lens attached in a Pelican case, to protect the sensor & avoid fixing the lens in dusty (or misty) outdoor locations. Hence, we never lift the lens. What risks do my equipment face?
Thanks,
Ritesh

[KETCH ROSSi]

Hi,
We use our Red (with 18-50) for documentaries & nature shoots. Offlate we've been carrying the Red with lens attached in a Pelican case, to protect the sensor & avoid fixing the lens in dusty (or misty) outdoor locations. Hence, we never lift the lens. What risks do my equipment face?
Thanks,
Ritesh

None, if the lens never supports the camera, by means of the foam not letting the lens float easily resting, the 18-50 is a super light lens, so if was to be left always on the camera, it will happen nothing, just always makes sure that never the lens support the weight of the camera when placed in the case.

I actually, even so much prefer Primes to Zoom, do the same thing with any camera I use for long lengths of time in bad weather, and in high dust environment, this prevents any dust to enter the sensor, or at list most of it, as some how dust always finds its way in ;)

[Danny Lingan]

This is a fantastic thread. I'm glad it was resurrected because I missed it before. Thanks Mr. Ketch for starting this as I've learned a lot. I mostly read here as I have much to learn from all the experts around here. I have been here from the beginning and enjoy your posts; I'm sorry I missed your tiramisu. :(

This thread should be stickied or indexed for newer shooters who aim for professional practice or independents who will eventually work with crews.

I'd like to add this little piece for new assistants.

The lens belongs in only 1 of 3 places:
1) In the case.
2) In your hand.
3) On the camera.

Laying it on a table or elsewhere is inviting a) disaster or b) gravity and disaster into your world. There is a unique, sick sound created when a $XX,000 lens hits a stage floor and you do not want to be the one who created it.

[KETCH ROSSi]

Thanks Danny, and please do drop the Mr. ha ha.

[Danny Lingan]

You got it! Sometimes the Southern roots start to show.

[KETCH ROSSi]

You got it! Sometimes the Southern roots start to show.

He he, yeah hen back home in Italy too, every one gives me the Signor ROSSI thing, he he.

[Danno Anderson]

How to get even with airlines and their baggage handlers.

A musician named Dave Carroll recently had difficulty with United Airlines. United apparently damaged his treasured Taylor guitar ($3500) during a flight. Dave spent over nine months trying to get United to pay for damages caused by baggage handlers.

During his final exchange with a United Customer Relations Manager, he stated that he was going to create a music video for you tube exposing their lack of cooperation. The Manager responded: "Good luck with that one, pal".

So he posted this retaliatory video on you tube. The video has since received over 7 million hits. United Airlines contacted the musician and attempted settlement in exchange for pulling the video. His response was: "Good luck with that one, pal".

Taylor Guitars sent the musician two new custom guitars in appreciation for the product recognition from the video that has lead to a sharp increase in orders. This is easy listening.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YGc4zOqozo&NR=1

[Pawel Achtel]

How to get even with airlines and their baggage handlers.

Love it :lol:

[Ryan Patrick O'Hara]

When I bought a set of Cooke Panchro/i's the case I purchased from Cooke has the 6 hole case with the lens holes cut so that the lenses rest on their side. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

I'm assuming, for those lenses, the at-rest-on-it's-side, position is best. I mean, that's what Cooke did, anyhow. It's a pretty cool case, too.

You suppose that is to reflect how they are built? Because they are built almost exactly like S4's and I've used those in many cases where the front element went face up.

-ryan

[Emanuel A.]

This is a fantastic thread. I'm glad it was resurrected because I missed it before. Thanks Mr. Ketch for starting this as I've learned a lot. I mostly read here as I have much to learn from all the experts around here. I have been here from the beginning and enjoy your posts; I'm sorry I missed your tiramisu. :(

This thread should be stickied or indexed for (...)Stick it! :-)

[Jason Sinclair]

I don't know if this was mentioned but i try and fit 16kg of carry on and it does work most of the time if you just shut up. However, in the case you get the wrong person on the wrong day, most airlines have a fragile section. Ask and remind them it is very fragile. Plaster the luggage with Fragile stickers. They usually have a separate loading scheme for fragile equipment. Then hope for the best. I have only had to do this 2 times out of approx 30. My first flight where i told them about the 16kgs (learnt really quick) and another time where they put it in the belly but treated it fine. I have never been to North America which seems like its own universe in regards, so not sure my advise would work there.

Other than that Steve's fedexing idea sounds good.