Matte Box Woes Revisited [Archive]

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08-02-2007, 02:01 PM

Jack, check out Redrock Micro's upcoming mattebox (http://www.redrockmicro.com/microMattebox.html). In fact, I recommend getting on the reservation list just in case. Redrock is a lot like Red as a company and not just because of their names. Both are challenging existing product lines by offering innovative but quality cinema tools so many rather than a few can afford them. Highly recommend their products (and no, I do not work for them)

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08-02-2007, 02:03 PM

And BTW, it is supposed to cost around $500 to $600 US. Amazing considering all of its features.

Matt Garrett

08-02-2007, 02:06 PM

Yes, but it's also not out yet and there is no release date.

Bruce Allen

08-02-2007, 02:39 PM

You know, instead of starting a whole new thread, we could just post in the old one.

Right now, if you need a matte box now, look at the Arri MB-20. That's what Red used in their booth. It supports up to 5x6 or 5.65x5.65, plus large round sizes. If you want 6.6x6.6, go for the Arri MB14. Here's a breakdown of the Arri range:
http://www.cinematechnic.com/products/matte_box.html

The Vocas matte box also seems nice (I looked at it at Cinegear) and I heard good things about the Petroff too.

On the horizon is the Redrock one (probably best bang for the buck), as well as CVB's one (probably a little more expensive but nicer?).

Anything I missed? Personally I thought the Vocas one much nicer than the Chrosziel...

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

Jack Wester

08-02-2007, 03:10 PM

You know, instead of starting a whole new thread, we could just post in the old one.

I'm Sorry. I thought the size of the old thead (close to 400 posts) would justify a new one. My misstake :blush:

On the horizon is the Redrock one (probably best bang for the buck), as well as CVB's one (probably a little more expensive but nicer?).

Thanks for the advice bruce

Password Expired

08-02-2007, 04:12 PM

Yes, but it's also not out yet and there is no release date.

That's a good point. But the Red One camera is also not out yet and Red's release schedule is, as the Red saying goes, always subject to change as well, which hasn't stopped us from reserving.

I'm assuming Jack wants a mattebox for his Red so this means he may not necessarily need it right this moment but I thought he might want to reserve his place in line on the Redrock website just in case...

Fortunately Brian Valente from Redrock says the tentative ship date for this mattebox is the "end of summer" so I am guessing September?

Zakaree Sandberg

08-02-2007, 04:38 PM

Im guessing this month.. prolly late august..
Defiantly think about RR mattebox.. looks like a winner

luis bustamante

08-03-2007, 06:58 AM

jaadgy akanni

08-03-2007, 07:43 AM

i'm holding out to see Curt's (Viewfactor Studios) model. If it's not unveiled by october we'll go ARRI.

I think the Redrock is a bit flimsy but it might be an economic solution for lighter, shoot and run situations. Cavision lacks a bit of quality from my judgement and Vocas is quite high in price (but very well built) so one might as well get the respected MB-20 for a few more $

just my thoughts...

Luis, how could you have already formulated such an opinion on the RedRock mattebox without having tested it in person, 'cause as far as I know, no one has yet. With all due respect, you sound like those people who diss the REd camera 'cause they figure it couldn't possibly be any good at such a low price. Following that same logic, you should be looking to get yourself a more "respected" Genesis instead of the RED One. For all I know, the REdRock mattebox will most probably turn out to be of as good a quality as the "respected" MB-20. In spec'ing his mattebox, Brian Valente has stated that he has taken into consideration all the suggestions we here at Reduser.com have made, as far as what we want in a mattebox. When purchasing stuff, sometimes people have a tendency to be masochistic -they feel better paying a higher price, 'cause it makes them believe the product is therefore better-plus they also believe that "respected" product is gonna make them appear more "professional". If the RedRock mattebox has all the features that Brian has promised(which we ourselves asked for), you buy your "respected" MB-20 and I'll be rocking my RedRock on my REd One.

Matthew Rogers

08-03-2007, 07:46 AM

jaadgy akanni

08-03-2007, 08:02 AM

I am hoping that VS's mattbox is going to be the perfect fit for me. I like what I read about the Vocas, but the Arri isn't just a few $$$'s more...it's at least $1,000 more brand new. I found the Vocas MB-450 for $2900 and the Arri MB-20 is $3800. I don't know about you, but that's alot of dough I could be spending on a better lens/follow focus/etc.

Matthew

Those prices are totally against the philosophy of the RED revolution. That kind of pricing is exactly what we are trying to go against. Curt, as well as RedRockMicro are the only way to go as far as I'm concerned. In fact I would not spend $3800 on a mattebox even if I had money to throw away. A registered charity could make better use of 2,500 of those dollars and I'd still have more than enough dough for a mattebox, either from Curt(View Factor Studios) or RedRock, which they are building according to the specs we have suggested. Think about it, that extra $2500 can buy you a lot of RAM, a few hard drives, a nice Computer, CPU memory, Lenses, etc.

Jeff Kilgroe

08-03-2007, 08:09 AM

Looking at Red Rock's new MB design, I see a lot of promising things. There's a few little things in their prototype photo that stand out as a potential issue, but it's hard to say just from a few photos and I'll reserve judgement until I get my hands on one. For $500, I don't see how I can go wrong with that purchase. I'm also very interested to see what CVB comes up with. I have my email on the "notification" list for the RR mattebox and will probably purchase it unless initial reviews are not favorable.

Craig Bowman

08-03-2007, 08:18 AM

Here is another possibility for those on a budget:

http://www.hysonfilms.com/xmb.html

Zakaree Sandberg

08-03-2007, 08:52 AM

i'm holding out to see Curt's (Viewfactor Studios) model. If it's not unveiled by october we'll go ARRI.

I think the Redrock is a bit flimsy but it might be an economic solution for lighter, shoot and run situations.

RR mattebox is basically an arri clone.. your buying the name when u go with arri.
they don't have higher prices because of some special material used..its the same thing.. a rotating filter box is a rotating filter box.. it holds the filters.. the box blocks light..
Im not exactly a mattebox critic so take my words lightly..
Im also thrifty as hell and pinch my pennies..
but in all honesty.. I dont think there will be a huge gap in quality.. I admit the first rr prototype was flimsy and cheap.. then when I saw the new version at cinegear, I was much more excited and impressed.. (this was still prototype).. The final version will PROBABLY be quite good.

Zakaree Sandberg

08-03-2007, 08:53 AM

just went to the hyson link.. now THAT mattebox looks cheap and like a toy.

Matthew Rogers

08-03-2007, 09:00 AM

Those prices are totally against the philosophy of the RED revolution. That kind of pricing is exactly what we are trying to go against. Curt, as well as RedRockMicro are the only way to go as far as I'm concerned. In fact I would not spend $3800 on a mattebox even if I had money to throw away. A registered charity could make better use of 2,500 of those dollars and I'd still have more than enough dough for a mattebox, either from Curt(View Factor Studios) or RedRock, which they are building according to the specs we have suggested. Think about it, that extra $2500 can buy you a lot of RAM, a few hard drives, a nice Computer, CPU memory, Lenses, etc.

True, but I also understand why they charge those prices. They don't sell a ton of them each year (why do you think McDonalds can sell a burger for $1 and Fudruckers sells them for $7?) Plus, they are so well made that they last forever. Why do we except to pay very little and except it to last forever? It's the same reason why some people balk at what I charge. However, I am a specialized service with alot of equipment and experience. To me, $2,000 to $3,000 is fair for a mattebox that I am going to get 10+ years of use.

Sure, I want things cheap. The RED is a miracle for me--I can now do much higher end production value for a lot less. However, I want to be fair to the people who are enabling me to make $100,000+ a year off their equipment. Of course, I want them to be fair to me and not charge me out the butt just because they can.

Matthew

Zakaree Sandberg

08-03-2007, 09:04 AM

Yannick Hagman

08-03-2007, 09:51 AM

Curt, as well as RedRockMicro are the only way to go as far as I'm concerned.

What makes you so sure that Curts thing will compete in price?

I will get one of this two too. I like to get equipment for my HV20 which I still can use with a RED someday. I'm very undecided about buying a 35mm-adapter because of that. I probably better hold the money back for a RED.

Matthew Rogers

08-03-2007, 10:00 AM

what makes arri superior to red rock? how is the arri box more dependable?
materials = the same.. I can see why there are differences In prices when comparing 2 steadicam systems.. but not two plastic and aluminum boxes

You make it sound like matteboxes are really simple things. For the most part they are, however it's the little things that can really make equipment easier to use and last longer.

I am not absolutely saying the Arri is better, but they have been making matteboxes 30+ years for the demanding professional market. The redrock is sounding like it will be a great lower priced mattebox. However, I am betting that after 10 years of identical use the Arri would work better. I would love to be proven wrong...

Actually, to be fair...none of the other matteboxes that I am considering have much of a track record. The Arri is the only one who has been proven over the years to last.

Something else to be considered...are you planning on only using your red by yourself, or are you planning on renting it out also? My company is planning on renting ours out, so I want equipment that I know can take a little abuse (No matter how hard you try, equipment does get abused on accident.) Plus, I found that people are FAR more careful with equipment when they know it's expensive. If I were just going to be using it myself, I would probably go for the cheapest thing that worked decently. It's not a one shoe fits all thing.

Matthew

Zakaree Sandberg

08-03-2007, 10:21 AM

wshultz

08-03-2007, 11:39 AM

This reminds me of Avid vs. FCP. Avid gouged their customers for years (in my opinion) because they could. FCP provided a reasonable alternative based more on volume. I'm betting Red Rock is going to do their best to compete with the higher end matte boxes in quality. Worst case, I can replace the RR 6 additional times with a new one for the same money.

Matthew Rogers

08-03-2007, 11:43 AM

I agree.. Arri has indeed been doing it far longer. im just amped that new guys are coming out and saying "we can do it cheaper". But like you said.. arri charges more because they dont sell that many.. But now with a whole new indi market... RR can afford to sell their matteboxes at a much much more attractive price and still plan on selling a bunch.
I do plan on renting my camera out.. even more reason why I want to get the best deal as possible on accessories. id rather someone run over my 500$ mattebox then my $3500 mattebox:)

I'm still concerned about build quality. If I can get away with a $500 mattebox that's as good quality, I will buy it. I know that Curt rented a MB-20 to look at the Arri design on how to improve it. That's the mattebox I am really looking to buy in the end.

Actually, I rather have someone run over my $3500 mattebox and let their insurance pay for a new one. But that's what a deposit and insurance from each rental customer is for!

Matthew

Zakaree Sandberg

08-03-2007, 12:19 PM

Zakaree Sandberg

08-03-2007, 12:20 PM

PS.. i know im pushin RR hard.. I DO NOT WORK FOR THEM
I just like how companies such as red and redrock are screwing the guys who are trying to rip equipment owners off

Password Expired

08-03-2007, 01:01 PM

I agree about Redrock's being a great company but there is another reason I am looking forward to their mattebox release: I purchased and once owned a Redrock M2 35mm Adapter and know first hand about the build quality of their products.

First of all, there was something like a two month wait time when I ordered their 35mm adapter. This was due in part to the high demand of the product but also because they did not mass produce them. They were made for each customer in the USA and had a serial number. These were not made in China (like Cavision's products) nor rolled off of an assembly line.

The build, finish, and engineering of their rod support system, for example, was incredible for the cost. I have owned and used Cavision, Chrosziel, and Cinetech rod support systems and matteboxes before. For the money, versatility, and build, the Redrock was hands down the winner for me. If the mattebox is anything like their rod support system, then I am sold.

Michael Ragen

08-03-2007, 01:17 PM

I just hope there aren't any huge design flaws in the RR mattebox like having to take the M2 Adapter off the rods to replace the battery.

Zakaree Sandberg

08-03-2007, 01:19 PM

I just hope there aren't any huge design flaws in the RR mattebox like having to take the M2 Adapter off the rods to replace the battery.

thats an issue for adapter users.. personally i wouldnt care, because i aint using this with an adapter.. even still its a swing away so im sure there would be no problems for adapter users

Michael Ragen

08-03-2007, 01:42 PM

Sorry, I didn't word that very well. I was just talking about the battery issue with the adapter being a design flaw. I'm just hoping the mattebox doesn't have any issues of that magnitude.

Zakaree Sandberg

08-03-2007, 01:48 PM

ohhh i see:)

Matthew Rogers

08-03-2007, 02:25 PM

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d97/zakaree/microMB_backcopy.jpg

I aint leavin till i change your mind matthew :)

I personally think the RR MB looks almost as sturdy if not more than the mb20...

its defiantly based off the arri design...

Picture wise, it looks great. Very nice and professional. I guess my main problem right now is there has been very little info about it. I've only heard one person say, "I saw it in person at cinegear and it looks like it'll be good quality." If it's been proven by the time time I get my RED in January, I'll buy it. With that money I saved, I can buy the RED LCD and a nicer follow focus. Here are two more concerns. First, this sucker might be alot heavier then the Arri. Now true, it most studio stuff, it doesn't matter. Second,....since the RED doesn't have ND built in, you are going to be using a mattebox on a TON of stuff. For something that is CRUCIAL, you want to make sure it works better than you need.

From past experience, I have learn when it is wise to go the cheaper route, or when it's wise to pay the big $$$'s for something that's gonna work right each time.

So let me just hope....please let RR be as good quality as Arri...daddy needs that $3200!

Matthew

Zakaree Sandberg

08-03-2007, 02:33 PM

hahaha exactly!

PaulClements

08-03-2007, 03:15 PM

From talking to Brian I believe they used the MB20 and Chrosziel models for examination. After producing an early concept design with spec I spoke to him via email a few times. He then came over to this board and spoke about the mattebox and after viewing the obvious potential and demand for high quality gear to be used with RedOne went away and completely revised the build. Putting in more and more features, the matte box even allows 6x6 filters now, compared to the MB20's 5x6 maximum as well as swing away.

His early reports estimated the weight to be on a par with the MB20 so I don't suppose there will be much significant difference.

Build quality will certainly be an issue, but I have a lot of faith that RR can put something together that meets the demands of the indie budget and high end users alike. For the price difference if they succeed they will certainly be onto a winner, I think even Curt admitted they had to step up their ideas having seen what RR were doing for the price!

CVB

08-03-2007, 05:17 PM

Just a quick FYI... the main reason its taking us so long to get a rendering up is that I don't like to just throw stuff together to make a pretty picture... I engineer the crap out of something several times before I even bother making a rendering. I have dissected the MB-20, the VOCAS, and had a look at several patents relating to matteboxes (BTW, I think RR may be infringing on one). Like someone else said before... it looks like matte boxes are simple but they are far from it - just figuring out how the FOV of various lenses interacts with the design is a pain. I want to set the record straight and let people know that its not worth our time to make a lack luster product that doesn't perform.

I'm trying my hardest to get the matte box finished off... as soon as I get two other products in the manufacturing buffer next week I will spend at least a week or two getting something on this board for you guys to have a look at. I can say that we are estimating that the cost will be around $1000-$1200 (TBD) and it will be as good or better than an Arri.

Tonaci Tran

08-03-2007, 06:01 PM

I can say that we are estimating that the cost will be around $1000-$1200 (TBD) and it will be as good or better than an Arri.

Amen to that. Thanks man.

Eirik Tyrihjel

08-03-2007, 06:05 PM

I'm trying my hardest to get the matte box finished off... as soon as I get two other products in the manufacturing buffer next week I will spend at least a week or two getting something on this board for you guys to have a look at. I can say that we are estimating that the cost will be around $1000-$1200 (TBD) and it will be as good or better than an Arri.

If you build a mattebox at that price that is as good as or better than Arri, (and doesn´t look like a toy), I am going to be a costumer! I promise!

My best!

jaadgy akanni

08-03-2007, 06:18 PM

If you build a mattebox at that price that is as good as or better than Arri, (and doesn´t look like a toy), I am going to be a costumer! I promise!

My best!

With a price point of $1000-1200, CVB's mattebox has definitely got to be significantly better than the RR mattebox, considering that the RR is only $500. So the question won't be whether it's equal or better than the Arri, but whether its quality justifies choosing it over the RR mattebox.
Let's just wait and see:calm:

Brian Valente

08-03-2007, 06:57 PM

it's amazing how much discussion these things generate. Let me offer a few comments and observations:

- the picture above is not a rendering: it is the actual microMatteBox (okay, well the actual prototype mattebox). Those that were at Cinegear saw this very one. We never show renderings of products, only pictures.

- The prototype above is a bit chunky right now because it was outputted from a 3d printer. It just ends up being thicker than the final product.

- Redrock's design philosophy is first to consider an affordable price point and a high quality product, and everything goes from there. I absolutely agree the price point for what we are offering is a game-changer. We thought long and hard about what price we *could* charge, and decided in the end we could make something available for much less than what the market will bear. Same is true for 35mm adapters and follow focuses and wireless remotes and just about everything else we consider. Our goal is not to create yet another line of poorly made, inexpensive products. Our goal is to redefine the industry so that we all have the option to own quality important gear rather than have to rent. We have asked some notable high-priced gearmakers how they come up with their pricing structure, and their response is that it's based on the rental market. Redrock has a fundamentally different philosophy here.

- I don't agree that higher price always means higher quality. I think Red demonstrates that as well.

- More options for all of us in the end. How can that be bad? :)

Brian

CVB

08-03-2007, 07:55 PM

Agreed Brian... please don't take my comments the wrong way. I love what you guys are doing for the industry and we are on the same side as far as I'm concerned. BTW.. I'd keep an eye on the stackable stage design, theres a very broad patent claim on that topic.

Shawn Nelson

08-03-2007, 08:05 PM

Will you be doing top french flag and side adjustable wings? I really want those and hope it comes default with the package!

CVB

08-03-2007, 08:12 PM

For ours? Yes... those will be included in the price.

Brian Valente

08-03-2007, 10:01 PM

Hi Curt

Thanks for the note - I wasn't really thinking of your comments when I wrote it. Maybe just a general thought on product development. It's always an interesting time for everyone in the pre-release phase, and all the speculation etc.

Cheers

Brian

Adrian Correia

08-04-2007, 09:52 AM

I'm in Curt...is there any word on the when you would need/want deposits?

luis bustamante

08-04-2007, 10:37 AM

Luis, how could you have already formulated such an opinion on the RedRock mattebox without having tested it in person, 'cause as far as I know, no one has yet. With all due respect, you sound like those people who diss the REd camera 'cause they figure it couldn't possibly be any good at such a low price. Following that same logic, you should be looking to get yourself a more "respected" Genesis instead of the RED One. For all I know, the REdRock mattebox will most probably turn out to be of as good a quality as the "respected" MB-20. In spec'ing his mattebox, Brian Valente has stated that he has taken into consideration all the suggestions we here at Reduser.com have made, as far as what we want in a mattebox. When purchasing stuff, sometimes people have a tendency to be masochistic -they feel better paying a higher price, 'cause it makes them believe the product is therefore better-plus they also believe that "respected" product is gonna make them appear more "professional". If the RedRock mattebox has all the features that Brian has promised(which we ourselves asked for), you buy your "respected" MB-20 and I'll be rocking my RedRock on my REd One.

Ups! sorry I hurt your feelings!

Well, I based my opinion on the Redrock from what i saw at NAB. If they have a newer prototype at IBC I'll sure check it out as I couldn't make it to cinegear.

Anyway, I respectfully remind you that what I said is just my opinion. You can be happy with your Redrock and I with my MB-20 (or VFS MB hopefully) so why the attitude?

As a side note, we'll be renting here in Mexico and will be working with DP's used to standard pro film equipment (in which Arri plays a major role), so that's why using an MB-20 has an additional value for our business.

I didn't mean to bash or anything, just state my opinion.

The best

jaadgy akanni

08-04-2007, 11:21 AM

Ups! sorry I hurt your feelings!

Well, I based my opinion on the Redrock from what i saw at NAB. If they have a newer prototype at IBC I'll sure check it out as I couldn't make it to cinegear.

Anyway, I respectfully remind you that what I said is just my opinion. You can be happy with your Redrock and I with my MB-20 (or VFS MB hopefully) so why the attitude?

As a side note, we'll be renting here in Mexico and will be working with DP's used to standard pro film equipment (in which Arri plays a major role), so that's why using an MB-20 has an additional value for our business.

I didn't mean to bash or anything, just state my opinion.

The best

It's all good, Luis. No attitude here :-) Thanks for those words, anyway. Please be sure to check RedRock's new and improved mattebox design and report back to us.
Luis, I do understand why people who are in the rental business like you, will continue to acquire the Arri MB-20, for it'll be a while until enough people start building faith and realizing that these new affordable Cinema products are as good as the ones they've been paying so much for. In fact, it'll be some time until professionals start trusting the RED camera as an equal or better alternative to the conventional gear they so love. That's human nature. I guess that in the long run, the advent of products like CVB's and RR's matteboxes are gonna be bad thing for those who are in the gear rental business.

CVB

08-04-2007, 04:12 PM

I'm in Curt...is there any word on the when you would need/want deposits?
I wouldn't feel comfotable even thinking about taking deposits until I have a path to production. Lets wait until I get some renderings up and have a chance to get some feedback from you guys.. Then I'll take your money ;) I will probably hit up the community to test out protos etc... I'll let everyone know when the time comes.

chuck colburn

08-04-2007, 04:45 PM

Will you be doing top french flag and side adjustable wings? I really want those and hope it comes default with the package!

Terms change. Use to be a french flag was an indepently mounted flag over the camera. The front part of an over head shade of an mattebox was called an eye brow.

Andrew Benz

08-04-2007, 04:55 PM

Thank you Curt and btw I loved reading about your experiences w/ the Mirus prototype on your Forum and how it is shaping up to be a much better product than expected. I am VERY glad to be #24! Great stuff as always Curt and I am w/ Curran, I will be a customer for every well thought out solution you guys bring to market-- and since that is the only kind of work you do... then I am all in!

For the small owner/operator your products and those of RED will allow me to extend my abilities without the need to work FOR a much LARGER organisation-- just a few highly talented crew members that are just as excited as myself.. Light, nimble and lethal.

Cheers---Andrew

ps-- I was told this last week that in order to "run w/ the big dogs" in my market that you really need two things just to get a meeting for the larger projects--- a) a Media Composer and b) the ability to shoot film. hmmmm... my strategy will be a little different.

CVB

08-04-2007, 07:19 PM

Thanks Andrew... we posted a pic of the head with a cinealta on it... It makes it look really small... Can't wait to get a red one on there with a matte box from us ;)

Andrew Benz

08-04-2007, 09:00 PM

Thanks Andrew... we posted a pic of the head with a cinealta on it... It makes it look really small... Can't wait to get a red one on there with a matte box from us ;)

Headed over to check out the picture. Heheh... I have a feeling that mine will look just like it!:sarcasm:

EDIT--- Those two pics are awesome!!! Curt, I cannot wait-- I appreciate all your hard work sir--- bridges, bumpers and other interstitial shots will never be the same!!!

Alex Boothby

08-04-2007, 11:50 PM

Has Red given any hints to the front diameter of it's 50-150 zoom. I'm looking for the smallest possible MB that will work with both the 18-50mm and the 50-150mm. I'm hoping to avoid 6x6.

luis bustamante

08-05-2007, 06:05 PM

It's all good, Luis. No attitude here :-) Thanks for those words, anyway. Please be sure to check RedRock's new and improved mattebox design and report back to us.
Luis, I do understand why people who are in the rental business like you, will continue to acquire the Arri MB-20, for it'll be a while until enough people start building faith and realizing that these new affordable Cinema products are as good as the ones they've been paying so much for. In fact, it'll be some time until professionals start trusting the RED camera as an equal or better alternative to the conventional gear they so love. That's human nature. I guess that in the long run, the advent of products like CVB's and RR's matteboxes are gonna be bad thing for those who are in the gear rental business.

Yeah, thanks for understanding. And as I said in my initial post, if VFS or RR mattebox kicks ass I'll never hesitate to get that over the MB20, my comment was that if I had to choose over the VOCAS and the ARRI I'd go with the last one due to it's reputation in the film industry.

Believe me we're set to changing the way pictures are done in our country and it's close minded industry! We are revolutionaries as well!

The best,

Russ Campbell

08-05-2007, 09:01 PM

Hi Curt. Where can I see the pic of the head? Some really great products that you are developing.

donatello b

08-05-2007, 09:37 PM

http://www.viewfactor.net/

CVB

08-05-2007, 09:51 PM

Russ, doh... nm, Donatello beat me to it :)

Cam Crowley

08-05-2007, 10:19 PM

Curt
Gotta say I love what youre doing with the Mirus head - almost as much as Im loving what the RED team are doing.
This is the kind of head that I have been waiting on for timelapse work. It is totally perfect for that kind of application.
Best of luck with it - if the cash gods smile on me anytime soon I'll put my order in.

Cam

CVB

08-06-2007, 12:18 AM

Thanks Cam, that means alot. We looked around and there are no systems that are made for the layman... they are all built for technicians. We are glad to be able to provide a service and can't wait for everyone to play around with this stuff. Its very gratifying to see people making art with the exacting precision of a robot :)

Iron Possum

08-06-2007, 06:05 AM

What I'd be concerned about with any new mattebox design would be light leakage (if you have light bouncing around between those filters it can be a real nightmare) and filter tray tolerances.

Filter trays need to be able to slide and rotate in their individual slots quite easily but need to do so without allowing any light in. I have encountered both these problems with certain name brand models.

For my money, I've owned a Vocas and they are pretty robust and very cleverly designed (but tech support is not the best), the Arri's are also pretty bullet proof. I cant say that about the other brands though in my experience. If I have $400 pieces of glass sliding in and out and rotating around I'd want the mechanism holding them to be top quality.

Manuel Wenger

08-08-2007, 06:33 AM

Curt, count me in for the Mattebox and the Remote Follow Focus. Sounds really great.

Manuel

Zakaree Sandberg

08-08-2007, 08:42 AM

With a price point of $1000-1200, CVB's mattebox has definitely got to be significantly better than the RR mattebox, considering that the RR is only $500. So the question won't be whether it's equal or better than the Arri, but whether its quality justifies choosing it over the RR mattebox.
Let's just wait and see:calm:

why do people think price has anything to do with quality?

its all about the companies profit margin.. some can do it cheaper because they have the capabilities too.
I admit that alot of "CHEAP" stuff is "CHEAP".. i just dont get how a mattebox would cost anything more that 1000 bucks.. i made one (field of view was perfect) for under 200. it wasnt the BEST, but it worked!

Zakaree Sandberg

08-08-2007, 08:58 AM

for example.. RED!!!!
17.5 for a 4k camera that kicks any $100,000 + ..
is the sony f23 better than red one because it cost $250,000 verse 17.5k REDONE?

Craig Meadows

08-08-2007, 01:52 PM

What about Cavision products? We had their rod support and mattebox on our SDX900 and it worked quite well for the price.

jaadgy akanni

08-08-2007, 02:14 PM

for example.. RED!!!!
17.5 for a 4k camera that kicks any $100,000 + ..
is the sony f23 better than red one because it cost $250,000 verse 17.5k REDONE?

Zakaree that's exactly my point. You and I are actually in agreement. What I meant was that if at $1000 CVB's mattebox didn't turn out to be substantially better than than RR's, then why would I prefer it over a $500 one that has all the features I need? In fact, you never know, but sometimes the cheaper one could turn out to be even better than the more expensive one, like in the case of the Sony f23 vs. RED ONe.

JD Holloway

08-09-2007, 06:06 AM

Hey Curt and Brian,

Any chance you can through together a kick-ass follow focus as well? Willytech style? LWFF-II? The last chroiszel we rented was completely cack and we shot three episodes of a series before the POS rental house (cheep-ass 1 day rental-week) got us another one. 1st AC was pulling focus off the barrel of a canon ENG lens.

Oh God why do Producers have to be so cheap?

<points index finger at head, thumb "hammer", releases, head jerks sideways>

PaulClements

08-09-2007, 07:19 AM

Hi Curt and Brian,

Sorry if this has been answered already, but will either of you be able to supply prototypes of your new gear to the LART team for evaluation? I'm guessing Curt won't be able to since he's still in the R&D stages by the sounds of it, perhaps Brian might be able to?

Cheers

Paul

Zakaree Sandberg

08-09-2007, 12:42 PM

Zakaree that's exactly my point. You and I are actually in agreement. What I meant was that if at $1000 CVB's mattebox didn't turn out to be substantially better than than RR's, then why would I prefer it over a $500 one that has all the features I need? In fact, you never know, but sometimes the cheaper one could turn out to be even better than the more expensive one, like in the case of the Sony f23 vs. RED ONe.

rock on! i had to re-read your original post to get what you were saying.
We know whats up!

Shawn Nelson

08-23-2007, 11:09 AM

So where's the pictures of CVB's matte box? I want to see it!

Brian Valente

08-23-2007, 01:22 PM

Regista

The microMatteBox pictures are earlier in this thread, but here they are again for your viewing pleasure:

http://www.redrockmicro.com/assets/images/product/microMB_front_med.jpg

http://www.redrockmicro.com/assets/images/product/microMB_back_med.jpg

and here's the link to the specs http://www.redrockmicro.com/microMattebox.html

Cheers

Brian

Jim Exton

08-23-2007, 02:49 PM

Brian,

Any kind of rough estimate on the matte box's availability????

End of September/middle of October would be nice.

Thanks,

Jim

jaadgy akanni

08-23-2007, 07:49 PM

Here's a recent quote from Brian himself:
All the filter stages are now completely metal, no plastic at all. Stronger and sturdier for those beautiful - but expensive - filters

Mark Mannschreck

08-23-2007, 10:29 PM

Brian!!! It's been almost TWO YEARS since the RR mattebox was announced... I know you want to make your product as good as it can be but why does everything have to take soooooo very long???

Rick Darge

02-13-2008, 09:04 PM

???

?

?

Brian Valente

02-14-2008, 08:16 AM

Hi Manny

Product development just takes a long time sometimes (yeah, we don't like it either). The microMatteBox has 4-5x more components than any other product we've developed.

But the good news is it is almost here - we are just waiting for production to finish. We will post the final pricing, product options, and ship date to our reserve list first, so look for it in your email box shortly.

Shipping of course will be as we discussed before - first to the top 50 reservation holders, then we will make it available to the balance of the reservation list, and then open it up to the general public.

Brian

David Mutchler

02-14-2008, 09:46 AM

To Curt and Brian. Will your Matte Box fit on the Cooke 18-100mm lens?

Brian Valente

02-14-2008, 09:59 AM

Hi Viewfinder

the microMatteBox supports lenses up to 140mm in diameter. I think that cook is 120mm so we're good there

Brian

vincelucero

02-14-2008, 10:01 AM

I'm down for both. Get the Rock first, then once Curt's comes out, sell it or hang on to it for our other cameras. The Redrock Follow Focus works fine on the Red lens BTW. You just need the 19-15mm adapter.

Greg David

02-14-2008, 12:58 PM

Is it just me or do you guys also wish that Redrock would leave "micro mattebox" off the front ?

I really don't mind the Redrock logo so much but I would prefer to not actually have any words printed anywhere that the talent may be gazing.

Andrew Hewlett

02-14-2008, 01:03 PM

Rick Darge

02-14-2008, 04:11 PM

Davis

02-19-2008, 08:54 PM

I agree. It sounds trivial but the text cheapens the product IMO.

Can it be removed without damaging the product?

Brian Valente

02-20-2008, 09:16 AM

Is it just me or do you guys also wish that Redrock would leave "micro mattebox" off the front ?

Hi all

The microMatteBox logo shown on the prototype will not be on the shipping version, so I think we can all rest easy :)

Brian

KETCH ROSSi

02-20-2008, 10:00 AM

Hey Brian,

hope I find you well, again it was a great pleasure to meet you at Cinegear last year, and seen the RRMB there was a great surprise, especially because of the incredibly low price point, considering the very good build and design the prototype presented.

After an earlier post few months back, I changed my mind for more then one reason, and now look forward again to get an e-mail confirmation for the imminent delivery dates of your RRMB.

Thanks again for bringing yet an other great RR product to the Filmmakers community.

Ciao,

KETCH ROSSI
www.KETCHFRAME.com