Dual mounting on Jib

[Andrew McCarrick]

Is there any solid ways to mount a Red camera and an HD camera onto one jib? I'm looking to Shoot HD material for streaming live over the internet but want 4k material to make a second cut later, and I want the jib shots to be the same shots, so I don't have to have twice as many jibs/cranes.


It's for a live concert.

[Conrad Hunziker]

As an owner op of a 21' jib, and having done this before on a smaller scale, heres the issues:

- Weight: The smallest config with the Red and a lightweight zoom is usually around 35lbs. On my Jib I can put the battery at the base, so that removes a little bit of weight. The lightest broadcast camera for live shows is also around 30lbs. So you are looking at +/-65lbs. Most jibs - mine included - are only rated for 50lbs, and I never put an ounce over that. So you'll need a heavy duty jib = $$$

- Parallelism: Obviously since the cameras are in physically different places, inches apart, they will never have the same frame at any focal length. You could aim them slightly together, but they will never have the same frame - one will always be compromised. You would need to adjust the frames at each focal length and at each object distance. Even then the shots will still be different. I did it once with a prosumer camera and a 16mm camera, and found that for every focal length one shot was always crappy. You could go with something like ET's new 3D rig, which is controllable but also massive, and doesnt solve the issue entirely (and costs 2 stops of light). You can see part of the issue with your own eyes - look at the same object with only one eye. As you switch eyes, the object will be in a different part of the "frame" and the background changes.

- Lens controls: There are currently no lens controls that work for both a cine style and ENG camera at the same time. Giving the operator two sets of controls to operate at the same time is out of the question because the zoom rate and focus rate for each lens would be different. Therefore you'd need to engineer some sort of magic box that takes an input signal, scales it, and sends the appropriate command in the right language to the lens. Not impossible, but doesnt currently exist.

I really think the better way would be to just have 2 jibs.

[Cail Young]

Any reason you can't use the 720p tap from the RED for the stream? Aside from the grey lookaround...

[Andrew McCarrick]

Any reason you can't use the 720p tap from the RED for the stream? Aside from the grey lookaround...

Would it be possible to get rid of the lookaround, cause I guess the 720p could work. Is the 720p tap a specific framerate or does it change based on the shooting framerate?

[Cail Young]

Would it be possible to get rid of the lookaround, cause I guess the 720p could work. Is the 720p tap a specific framerate or does it change based on the shooting framerate?

The tap is always 720P50 or 720P59.94 - depending on what you choose in the menus.

You'd need to use a DME or another scaling device to lose the lookaround, or crop it in the streaming encoder.

[Andrew McCarrick]

Do all the outputs from the Red have the look around, or could I use one of the other outputs, instead of the preview output? And can you name a scaler/cropper if I have to crop the lookaround.

[jimhare]

Maybe when 4.5k comes out there won't be a lookaround at all! If so, no need to crop.

[Cail Young]

Do all the outputs from the Red have the look around, or could I use one of the other outputs, instead of the preview output? And can you name a scaler/cropper if I have to crop the lookaround.

All the outputs have it. Your encoding package should be able to crop the input, no? To do it in hardware will cost mucho dinero.

[Andrew McCarrick]

All the outputs have it. Your encoding package should be able to crop the input, no? To do it in hardware will cost mucho dinero.

Well, we're doing the streaming feed plus a second feed for projection screens on either side of the stage, so that would have to be cropped too. And we're doing multiple streaming feeds.

What about the AJA FS1 upconverting 720/60p to 1080/60i and then cropping back to 720/60p minus the lookaround... can the FS1 crop that way though?

[Andrew McCarrick]

Anybody know if it's possible to use the AJA FS1 in that way? cropping 1080i to 720p?

[Cail Young]

The FS1 won't scale, but this will:

http://www.gefen.com/kvm/dproduct.jsp?prod_id=4208

You'll need to convert to DVI as well.