Epic Closeups...

[Lucas Wilson]

Epic gear in the ASSIMILATE booth...

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, inc.
LA, CA, USA

[Vigna Raajan]

Awesome!! Looks amazing!!
Thank you Lucas.

[Lucas Wilson]

Two more...

Lucas

[Vigna Raajan]

Incredible!!! We want more!!!

[Peter Karlsson]

Ouch... That new EVF looks badass!! (And the Epic too)...

[Andrew Gentle]

Fantastic, you've well and truly made my day, thanks Lucas!

I spy those full size XLRs

[Stephen Gentle]

Wow, I wasn't expecting to see a powered up REDMOTE! That thing looks awesome - any idea of how much it will be? I assume it's not coming in the Scarlet 2/3" kit.

[Andrew Gentle]

Wow, I wasn't expecting to see a powered up REDMOTE! That thing looks awesome - any idea of how much it will be? I assume it's not coming in the Scarlet 2/3" kit.

Nope, it's the handle in the kit, I'm pretty sure.


Wow, it's so quiet right now after this huge event and it's because all the Americans are asleep!

[Curran Giddens]

That EVF looks BOMB!

Oh, and Epic too!

[Nook Kim]

I'm drooling so bad that it's not even funny... gotta save gotta save..
The hand-hold strap.. does it have to be made out of that material? Not sure what that material is but, it looks like it came from a DV camera. Besides that, AWESOME!

[Vince Doran]

Coooooool......now when can I buy one?

[James Press]

Great!! Keep em coming! Looking fantastic!

[Jim Perry, Jr.]

soon and very soon all shall be reality..
images looks sooooo good.

[Tim Whitcomb]

Two more...

Lucas

awesome

[Mazen Hashem]

more photos or videos please

[David Nardini]

Thanks for the pics Lucas ... much appreciated.

Is the weight of the Epic REALLY less than the RedOne ?!?!?! Looks like it could be the same by the time all the bits are onboard ...

[martinnoweck]

it says "sleep" on the redmote - is this for redmote only or for putting the camera in sleep mode?

best wishes,
martin

[Imran Farouk]

I think its for the Mote...i can't imagine putting a camera to sleep...but then again this is RED so anythings possible I guess...

[Christian Edwards]

These renders are awesome

[David Rasberry]

Not renders. Pictures of the real thing.

[Pawel Achtel]

Not renders. Pictures of the real thing.

He was kidding, David :ihih: Yeah, it looks very promising.

[Lucas Wilson]

Thanks for the pics Lucas ... much appreciated.

Is the weight of the Epic REALLY less than the RedOne ?!?!?! Looks like it could be the same by the time all the bits are onboard ...

The weight of the stacked unit that Jarred had is about exactly the weight of a RED ONE. I was impressed.

Lucas

[Lucas Wilson]

lucas..did you have the completely stacked up epic (many modules) in the hands? the interlocking mechanism looks a little like on a hasselblad mag. does it wobble a little or is it completely rigid? thanx for letting me know

Rigid.

Lucas

[Christian Edwards]

Will it Blend ?

[Pietro Impagliazzo]

Scarlet is getting closer... http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/7498/laughl.gif

[Steven Caesare]

Sooo... the Redmote's are slightly differing desgns (# of buttons, layouts, etc...)

I also notice the one mounted on the mac of the camera seems to be slightly narrower than the EPIC module it's pggy-backing on to.

And it APPEARS that the Redmote that's being hand-held has a slightly wider aspect ratio.

Are we seeing mix-n-match Scarlet and Epic Redmotes?

-sc

PS- These pics and the new announcement are insanely cool.

[Stephen Gentle]

Are we seeing mix-n-match Scarlet and Epic Redmotes?

There is only one REDMOTE. As far as I am aware, at least - the DSMC system is supposed to be modular, so you could upgrade from Scarlet to Epic and keep all your modules.

[Dominic Cochran]

Two more...

Lucas

The second pic isn't the Bomb EVF, so RED Sight must be the name of the OVF!

[David Wyatt]

The second pic isn't the Bomb EVF, so RED Sight must be the name of the OVF!

Hmmm...curiouser & curiouser...

[Pietro Impagliazzo]

No cameras there?!

C'mon, give us some more photos!

And with no crappy forum compression please :P.

[Raul Gonzo]

Looking at the Redmote makes me wonder:
Is it going to display a picture from the camera or just a control screen/menu?

[Steven Caesare]

There is only one REDMOTE. As far as I am aware, at least - the DSMC system is supposed to be modular, so you could upgrade from Scarlet to Epic and keep all your modules.

Look at the pices. The one on the EPIC and the one in somebody's hand both say "REDMOTE", yet they are different:


On Cam:

Narrower (?)
3 buttons below left corner of LCD (M1, M2, M3)
lower left button labeled "BACK"
Handheld:

Wider(?)
2 buttons blow lower left of LCD (Menu, Back)
lower left button labeled "SLEEP"
Subtle stuff like not having colored lettering or buttons I'm not counting.

So there is more than one REDMOTE design in existence. Question is, are they protypes leading up to one final product, or are there going to be different flavors?

-sc

[Justin Kirchhoff]

Sexy Sexy. Love seeing the OVF and REDmote powered up.

[Pietro Impagliazzo]

Look at the pices. The one on the EPIC and the one in somebody's hand both say "REDMOTE", yet they are different:


On Cam:

Narrower (?)
3 buttons below left corner of LCD (M1, M2, M3)
lower left button labeled "BACK"
Handheld:

Wider(?)
2 buttons blow lower left of LCD (Menu, Back)
lower left button labeled "SLEEP"
Subtle stuff like not having colored lettering or buttons I'm not counting.

So there is more than one REDMOTE design in existence. Question is, are they protypes leading up to one final product, or are there going to be different flavors?

-sc

But they are very similar...
Maybe just two different mock-ups?

[Harry Lipnick]

Look at the pices. The one on the EPIC and the one in somebody's hand both say "REDMOTE", yet they are different:


On Cam:

Narrower (?)
3 buttons below left corner of LCD (M1, M2, M3)
lower left button labeled "BACK"
Handheld:

Wider(?)
2 buttons blow lower left of LCD (Menu, Back)
lower left button labeled "SLEEP"
Subtle stuff like not having colored lettering or buttons I'm not counting.

So there is more than one REDMOTE design in existence. Question is, are they protypes leading up to one final product, or are there going to be different flavors?

-sc

Good eyes Steven!
Peace,

-Harry

[Steven Caesare]

But they are very similar...
Maybe just two different mock-ups?

Ya, that's what I'm wondering.

The "old" pics from the RedUser party a few months back with the "silver" prototypes also showed a REDMOTE that was also slightly narrower than the back of the EPIC it was attached to.

This is the first time I've seen a design that appears wider... altho I can't be sure as it's being held. Sure looks like it tho.

-sc

[Jarred Land]

I'm drooling so bad that it's not even funny... gotta save gotta save..
The hand-hold strap.. does it have to be made out of that material? Not sure what that material is but, it looks like it came from a DV camera. Besides that, AWESOME!

ha ha we bought that side strap from Adorama for $8... there are tabs on the handle to use any side strap you have that will fit.. but this one is not a RED product..

[Jerrod Cordell]

Will it Blend ?

I think if that guy did one of those episodes with the new Reds the following episode would be everyone from Reduser sticking him in a blender.

[Tony Lorentzen]

That Bomb EVF looks a lot like the new Arri EVF (in terms of size). An boy is that nice (in terms of image quality). Looking forward to see the Bomb EVF in action.

[Steven Caesare]

That Bomb EVF looks a lot like the new Arri EVF (in terms of size). An boy is that nice (in terms of image quality). Looking forward to see the Bomb EVF in action.


Or.... seeing as how pics of the Red EVF design have been shown in rendered form for close to a year, and in prototype form for several months, how about:

"That new ARRI EVF looks similar in size to the RED design, just uglier."

:biggrin:

[SimonFunkel]

True Steve, their marketing has gotten pretty similar to the way Red has proved to be effective... creation of suspense and the like.
The world is noticing Red!

[Pietro Impagliazzo]

True Steve, their marketing has gotten pretty similar to the way Red has proved to be effective... creation of suspense and the like.
The world is noticing Red!

Royalties to Hitchcock.

[Tom Lowe]

These renders are awesome

Thanks, dude. Coffee all over my monitor and keyboard. Hahaha.

OMG, I'm getting wood from these pics. I love the compactness!!!!!!!!!

[dustin lindgren]

How much do you think that EVF is going to weigh? I have the older one that is still is in the box . How much will it cost?

[Shawn Nelson]

Thanks, dude. Coffee all over my monitor and keyboard. Hahaha.

OMG, I'm getting wood from these pics. I love the compactness!!!!!!!!!

lol, Tom, they do look cool, they also look identical to the December 08 renders, just CNC'd this time.

I'm surprised by Lucas' comment that it weighed the same, I thought an Epic with the modules was lighter.

[Steven Caesare]

lol, Tom, they do look cool, they also look identical to the December 08 renders, just CNC'd this time.

I'm surprised by Lucas' comment that it weighed the same, I thought an Epic with the modules was lighter.

Yeah, but as configured in the show pics... that looks to include a dual-battery module.

I wonder if the comparisons are being made to a R1 without a battery attached directly to the body.

-sc

[Jon Carr]

Alright Alright......

[Justin O'Neill]

I'm surprised by Lucas' comment that it weighed the same, I thought an Epic with the modules was lighter.

The Epic Lucas held has the battery module though. I think Epic was supposed to be lighter with the modules that make it similar in function to the RED One body.

I'm the sure this Epic configuration is lighter then an R1 with a battery attached.

[Jarred Land]

lol, Tom, they do look cool, they also look identical to the December 08 renders, just CNC'd this time.

I'm surprised by Lucas' comment that it weighed the same, I thought an Epic with the modules was lighter.

Very different than the renders..

And they weighed the same because the epic you are looking at in the photo has the equivalent of two RED ONE Batteries strapped to the back of it in the form of the Battery module.. plus a battery in the side handle.:)

[Shawn Nelson]

Very different than the renders..

And they weighed the same because the epic you are looking at in the photo has the equivalent of two RED ONE Batteries strapped to the back of it in the form of the Battery module.. plus a battery in the side handle.:)

Ooooohhh, now there's the detail! Thanks Jarred!

[Harrison Diamond]

My word this is wonderful. I'm waiting for more pics and refreshing every second it seems.

[Pietro Impagliazzo]

My word this is wonderful. I'm waiting for more pics and refreshing every second it seems.

So am I...

:willy_nilly:

[Harrison Diamond]

I just spent the last 10 minutes or so in the shower contemplating just what is left for them to do. Once the ASIC shows up.... I wonder how much they've been able to do without it. Will it just be testing everything? Will they have the firmware mostly written? Oh my. I'm starting to freak out and I can't even afford an Epic, just a Scarlet.

[Andrew clemson]

need.....new.....trousers.....

[Steven Caesare]

Two more...

Lucas

So... is the "RED Sight" and the "Bomb EVF" one and the same?

-sc

[Peter Osinski]

are there any more pics? I would have liked to see how the compact flash module or something of that sort would look when attached, or even better, a fully equipped rig would have been nice. Id just like to see it with all the modules, and necessary cables attached. Still, very cool though.

I really can't wait to find out what the prices for the modules will be, but im not in a huge hurry because I still don't have enough money saved up for the scarlet cinema brain, let alone all the lenses I want.

take your time red, I am not ready yet

[Tom Lowe]

http://ninxmz.org/images/demotivators/moar.jpeg

http://antimarc.flashrapid.com/spaptions/MOAR.jpg

[Rick Darge]

How much $$$ is that BombEVF going to cost?

[Shawn Nelson]

How much $$$ is that BombEVF going to cost?

Hopefully we're on the IT/media scale of greater features for noticeably less cost.

$2000 is my hope, it's obvious by size that they are using less components, and the compoments (except the optics) are of an IT nature, so hopefully BOM is down, and hopefully they can better manufacture them. So it seems reasonable.

[Tim Whitcomb]

Hopefully we're on the IT/media scale of greater features for noticeably less cost.

$2000 is my hope, it's obvious by size that they are using less components, and the compoments (except the optics) are of an IT nature, so hopefully BOM is down, and hopefully they can better manufacture them. So it seems reasonable.

Well one third the size and weight... sure would be great if that equates to 1/3 the price i.e $1000.00 :) But usually shrinking stuff costs more.

[Tom Lowe]

Hopefully it will be cheaper than an entire 7D....

[Shawn Nelson]

Hopefully it will be cheaper than an entire 7D....

Whoa, you think its possible that the Bomb EVF is sub $1699?

[Quentin Brown]

Hmmm, things are progressing nicely. I love the stuff you guys are developing at RED. The sensor size, frame rates and high quality codec at an affordable price point for me are the main draws. I still dream of a RED camera on a regular basis but my practical concerns about the rest of the system's suitability for my intended use grow the longer the time I have for the buzz of excitement to wear off.
I will likely be shooting a lot of handheld work on Documentaries and the slr style modular grip looks like it would be really uncomfortable for this(and doesn't have a zoom rocker control). I realise that these images are of the EPIC and I will however only be able to afford a Scarlet - (probably a 2/3" for on the fly focus pull practicality though I love the extra shallow DOF available in larger sensors and really want to shoot stills and Video but can't quite stretch to the s35 model). Presumably part of the Scarlet's target market is still the soccer mom's through Documentary makers to Indie filmmakers as mentioned before the redesign to modular DSMC so therefore handycam and EFP style controls, automation and ergonomics are important factors for the target markets. The mention of touch point autofocusing elsewhere demonstrates that autofocus is part of the plan for the system somewhere but beyond touch screen points I can't yet see where. With Red proudcing a range of 2/3" lenses that don't appear to incorporate motorized zoom rocker and AF handles like common broadcast lenses do (judging by the renders) I'd imagine they must have focus and zoom motors incorporated into the lens, therefore control would be on another camera module. Hopefully one is coming that will be more ergonomic for on the shoulder shooting than the SLR style handle? Sitting at an almost horizontal rather than vertical angle? Maybe twistable to adjust for maximum comfort?

Also the IO module looks promisingly practical with full sized XLR's (I wont have to replace all my cables or get lots of adapters) but only 2 XLR inputs are shown. I'm thinking that only one side of the module was shown so there could be more on the other sides,..right? Otherwise I guess you could stack em? Up to 10 io modules to record up to 20 audio channels in sync? Overkill maybe ;-). Specially as you would end up with so many video I/O ports. Perhaps a separate audio I/O module to add and stack with proper hardwired pots for level control and a ppm display? 4 Channels is really a Minimum for my kind of work.

Whadda you say Jarred can I get my RED powered killer EFP cam that's cheaper than any other shoulder mounted 2/3" HD cam out there for TV production, then use it to occasionally shoot Dramas and Cinema stuff of a more considered nature when I get the time/chance?

[R.A.P. Maduro]

for this kind of news is why i get in troubles.. i was going to buy a 50" scarlet tv because i wasn't think that the camera was going to be released on January or so, now i do have to decide to keep looking on a 20 inch tube and buy the camera or buy the tv first and wait anyway for the camera till next year.. :( I just want my scarlet.... hey btw the $3750 for the fixed one is operational right out the box?

[Peter Mosiman]

hey btw the $3750 for the fixed one is operational right out the box?

Last we know...Yes. No reason why they'd change that so I think its safe to say a permanent yes. =]

[Jeremy_Sawatzky]

Hmmm, things are progressing nicely. I love the stuff you guys are developing at RED. The sensor size, frame rates and high quality codec at an affordable price point for me are the main draws. I still dream of a RED camera on a regular basis but my practical concerns about the rest of the system's suitability for my intended use grow the longer the time I have for the buzz of excitement to wear off.
I will likely be shooting a lot of handheld work on Documentaries and the slr style modular grip looks like it would be really uncomfortable for this(and doesn't have a zoom rocker control). I realise that these images are of the EPIC and I will however only be able to afford a Scarlet - (probably a 2/3" for on the fly focus pull practicality though I love the extra shallow DOF available in larger sensors and really want to shoot stills and Video but can't quite stretch to the s35 model). Presumably part of the Scarlet's target market is still the soccer mom's through Documentary makers to Indie filmmakers as mentioned before the redesign to modular DSMC so therefore handycam and EFP style controls, automation and ergonomics are important factors for the target markets. The mention of touch point autofocusing elsewhere demonstrates that autofocus is part of the plan for the system somewhere but beyond touch screen points I can't yet see where. With Red proudcing a range of 2/3" lenses that don't appear to incorporate motorized zoom rocker and AF handles like common broadcast lenses do (judging by the renders) I'd imagine they must have focus and zoom motors incorporated into the lens, therefore control would be on another camera module. Hopefully one is coming that will be more ergonomic for on the shoulder shooting than the SLR style handle? Sitting at an almost horizontal rather than vertical angle? Maybe twistable to adjust for maximum comfort?

Also the IO module looks promisingly practical with full sized XLR's (I wont have to replace all my cables or get lots of adapters) but only 2 XLR inputs are shown. I'm thinking that only one side of the module was shown so there could be more on the other sides,..right? Otherwise I guess you could stack em? Up to 10 io modules to record up to 20 audio channels in sync? Overkill maybe ;-). Specially as you would end up with so many video I/O ports. Perhaps a separate audio I/O module to add and stack with proper hardwired pots for level control and a ppm display? 4 Channels is really a Minimum for my kind of work.

Whadda you say Jarred can I get my RED powered killer EFP cam that's cheaper than any other shoulder mounted 2/3" HD cam out there for TV production, then use it to occasionally shoot Dramas and Cinema stuff of a more considered nature when I get the time/chance?

SOCCER MOMS?????????????

[Tom Lowe]

Whoa, you think its possible that the Bomb EVF is sub $1699?

I don't now. I mean, if you can get a whole camera for $1,700, why not a viewfinder? Then again, I don't know anything about what it takes to build something like this. Obviously the economies of scale are much different than a 7D. I was just trying to give some perspective.

Sometimes, if I spend like a couple grand on a lens, for example, I will stop and think to myself: "WTF. I could have bought a motorcycle for this price." Or gone to Africa for 5 weeks, or whatever.

[Ege E.]

more pictures?!?!?!?

[Michael Hastings]

Whoa, you think its possible that the Bomb EVF is sub $1699?

Possibly, size reduction should help and volume from lower price could bring about cost reduction as well. RED EVF at $2950 was expensive enough to make me keep putting off buying it until now it's too late. Smaller, better, and cheaper at say $1500 makes it a no-brainer. If it is significantly more you start thinking about just using your RED LCD and what other things you could use the money for - better mattebox, better lens, etc.

OOPS missed Tom's post - but that's what I meant.


I don't now. I mean, if you can get a whole camera for $1,700, why not a viewfinder? Then again, I don't know anything about what it takes to build something like this. Obviously the economies of scale are much different than a 7D. I was just trying to give some perspective.

Sometimes, if I spend like a couple grand on a lens, for example, I will stop and think to myself: "WTF. I could have bought a motorcycle for this price." Or gone to Africa for 5 weeks, or whatever.

[Eirik Tyrihjel]

Thanks for sharing!

[Cüneyt Kaya]

I don't now. I mean, if you can get a whole camera for $1,700, why not a viewfinder? Then again, I don't know anything about what it takes to build something like this. Obviously the economies of scale are much different than a 7D. I was just trying to give some perspective.

Sometimes, if I spend like a couple grand on a lens, for example, I will stop and think to myself: "WTF. I could have bought a motorcycle for this price." Or gone to Africa for 5 weeks, or whatever.

me too, but comparing to other brands red is throwing their EVF away.

guess its the volume.

for 25 k usd you get a new VW GOLF6, and think of the shit its inside the car.

the difference is they sell millions of them.

we are talking about under 7000 EVFs in total maybe

[Stephen Pruitt]

But still no talk about when? And how long after Epic-X will Monstro come out?

These are the truly relevant questions to me. . .

Stephen

[alex lemon]

But still no talk about when? And how long after Epic-X will Monstro come out?

These are the truly relevant questions to me. . .

Stephen

I believe the word was monstro is going to follow by about a year if i'm not mistaken?

Great pics! Thanks for posting.

[Stephen Pruitt]

A year, huh? That might force me into Epic-X. . . or, possibly, just upgrade my One. It all depends, doesn't it?

:-)

Stephen

[Häakon]

SOCCER MOMS?????????????
It's a reference to the interview Ted gave in 2008, in which he remarked that "[Scarlet] would have a huge range of customers, from soccer moms to indie filmmakers to huge, high-level filmmakers..."

Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkoHTjx8siM

[Häakon]

we are talking about under 7000 EVFs in total maybe
I really don't think so. Keep in mind that the EVF works with Scarlet alongside the Epic line, and they can't price it too far out of that system range. At the low end, Scarlet costs $3,000 and they are going to sell a bazillion of those. I think that it has the potential to decimate the entire HVX/EX1/XLH1 market. There are millions of those cameras out there. And while one can use a regular LCD monitor for composing shots, I think that most people are going to want an EVF - especially since they're really hitting the "DSMC" tag hard. I have no clue how many they'll actually sell but my guess is a lot more than 7,000.

[Roberto Lequeux]

Drooooool... the Redmote is ON... faint.

So sexy in black!

[Charles Nader]

Any words on any prices of those items that was displayed there?

[Stephen Strangways]

Front and top vents means the EPIC will eliminate all concerns about cooling when used with a Cinesaddle. That's a worthwhile feature point for me!

[Nick Gardner]

Is that a marking ring on the diopter on the viewfinder? That would be stellar. now when that lousy hippie smelling dit looks through my camera while I'm 10-1, and he doesn't reset my diopter, I can bust him on it AND set it back to my setting ;-)

Nick

[Jarred Land]

correct-o Nick.

[Milan Spasic]

Front and top vents means the EPIC will eliminate all concerns about cooling when used with a Cinesaddle. That's a worthwhile feature point for me!

I wonder though, how many users will be happy to use the camera with so many openings in dusty/salty/damp conditions?
Hope it's rugged enough....

[Jarred Land]

the openings are connected to a completely sealed system.. its a closed tube that uses forced air to cool heatsinks. The only thing exposed is the fans that blow the air.. and those are user cleanable and changeable.

[Milan Spasic]

the openings are connected to a completely sealed system.. its a closed tube that uses forced air to cool heatsinks. The only thing exposed is the fans that blow the air.. and those are user cleanable and changeable.

That's a relief to hear.

My work is almost exclusively in pretty rough conditions so the look of those vents made me worried a little.

Thanks for clarifying!

[Brook Willard]

the openings are connected to a completely sealed system.. its a closed tube that uses forced air to cool heatsinks. The only thing exposed is the fans that blow the air.. and those are user cleanable and changeable.

That's great news. I remember there being early discussion that the RED ONE would be designed in this manner... but the final shipping camera was a completely open system. This sounds pretty great.

I also want to put in my vote for a grey color instead of black. If it's an option, that's fantastic. But if I had to choose one color... grey all the way! The camera can always be blacked out if it's causing trouble... but it can never be greyed out to cool it down in the sun.

Very exciting stuff, guys.

[Greg M]

+1 on grey

[Andrew Benz]

Always wanted the grey as well... :)

[Pawel Achtel]

Always wanted the grey as well... :)

Ok, ok, ok...I hear you. I concede to have been outvoted on lilac with fluoro green accs. You guys can have it your way this time...Can we at least settle on a bad-ass mil camo grey, then?

[Stephen Gentle]

I'd vote for black myself...

[Harrison Diamond]

I'd like a medium gray...

[gbalaji]

Is there any optical viewfinder talks by Jim?

[Petr Dvorak]

Is there any optical viewfinder talks by Jim?

it will cost like 20k and they exptect that there will be aprox. 3 orders

[Lucas Wilson]

it will cost like 20k and they exptect that there will be aprox. 3 orders

Just wanted to jump in here... that is a bit of paraphrasing of what Jim said. : )

A bit more information on what he said:

1) He really doesn't like OVFs. Thinks they are antiques.
2) That being said, RED has a really cool and unique concept for how to implement an OVF into the Epic system.
3) It will be expensive - about US$20K.
3) But, he is afraid that what will happen is that they will have spent a ton of money on developing the OVF, and the 20 people that are out there complaining the loudest about OVFs will buy them and that will be it, and RED will have wasted a ton of time, energy, and effort for something that sells 20 units.

Best,

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, inc.
LA, CA, USA

[Jeff Coatney]

Sounds about right to me. Although I think the more accurate term would be: "Extinct", not "antique". I respect Jim's commitment to his customers, though. It takes a stand-up guy to admit feeling that way, yet still move forward with providing it to his customers, however few of them may actually buy it.

[Michael Moreno]

OVF = JIMS HEART.

There are alot of assholes out there that are wise enough to not try and please everybody.

Jim is not one of them.

That guy has heart.
He has delivered everything wished, dreamt, and whined over.
And with the ovf, the last unimportant wish, he still grants it.
What a Legend.

The greatest thing behind all of these (Epic)-Photos (double entendre)
Is the man slightly out of focus in the backdrop
It was the first thing that caught my eye.
you can catch him in all his glory
a real dreamer
a mans man
a working man
a great man
see the distance in his eyes
you can see he hopes people can relate
to his big dreams and realized visions
and if they dont,
he can afford to be considered a mad-man
he's earned the title

You've done it Jim,
from one of the little guys in your army
I salute you
a proud red one soldier
I wont let you down
My work begins with your Epic
my red one worked for its upgrade on others set's.

Thank you

Lmfao

The pictures, the camera, the new features, and crazy Jim in the background
are so awesome

you'd have to be a stiff to not get a kick out of it.


http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=34848


; )

[Jeff Brown]

Michael please...

Posts like that are what make it so hard to work on on professionals sets with this camera - because of the fanboy stigma attached to it.

I appreciate you like the work Red's doing but it's not a religion.

The camera stands on it's own without all that.


Jeff Brown
brownianmotion.co.uk

[Michael Moreno]

Sorry you have a hard time on set

People usually love me lol

lighten up jeff

dont make me hurt you (lol)
Nice guys come in big packages :reddevil:

say what you'd say in person
that's the forum law of the land
grandma's law was if you cant say anything nice....

hate on hater
just dont live in fear
Red-haters are a dying breed
Scarlet cures the disease

peace

over and out

[Imran Farouk]

I predict a cult on the horizon...

[Jeff Brown]

OK Michael what I'd say in person:

"Hello Michael, I'm not a red hater, I own multiple reds and work daily on commercials/TV projects in the UK. I get on very well on set with everyone I work with. The camera is well accepted but the biggest problem I face is the reaction of the wider industry to people like you and the over zealous nonsense that they spout on reduser."

I'm not trying to insult you - it's a fact that big DPs have an aversion to that type of idolisation.

Jeff Brown
brownianmotion.co.uk

[Denis Buhot]

OK Michael what I'd say in person:

it's a fact that big DPs have an aversion to that type of idolisation.



it's another fact that small DPs like me simply hate it... This is a supposed to be a reliable forum...

[David Mullen ASC]

There is no reason to make the optical viewfinder issue a big emotional debate, there are simply pros and cons to both optical and electronic viewfinders.

Traditionally on a film shoot, the operator looked through the actual taking lens and had the best opinion about whether the shot was in focus or not -- now with 35mm sensor digital cameras, no matter what electronic viewfinder I've used, the operator is a poorer judge of focus during a take than anyone else watching on a larger monitor.

That changes a lot of the dynamics on a set, as traditionally the operator and the focus puller discussed between them any focus problems, now it's the DP (me) telling both of them back from my monitor where they made mistakes. On the other hand, on a 24" HD monitor, I can catch mistakes in focus like never before, which is good. On the other hand, a lot of focus pullers get fired these days because now everyone can see their mistakes in real time.

Second, with an optical viewfinder, one can line-up a shot without the camera being turned on. So many times on digital shows, I've had the camera on in order to set-up and light the set, only to have the battery need to be swapped out during Take One.

There are lots of reasons why it's a good idea to be able to look through the actual lens.

Now there are a lot of good reasons to use electronic viewfinders, exposure information being the primary one. Optical viewfinders don't tell an operator whether they are exposing the shot properly. If you are shooting in charging light conditions, like while shooting on a moving car through landscapes of changing light levels, it's a lot easier to make quick guesses as to how to adjust the iris with an electronic viewfinder and guides like zebras and whatnot. Plus you have information available about shutter speed, color temp, battery level, etc. if you want.

So I wouldn't dismiss those who want an optical viewfinder out of hand if you don't have a lot of personal experience operating a movie camera with one, because it is a unique experience to see a scene through the optics of a lens with your own eyes, without the filter of an electronic image. But I also agree in general that digital cameras, for most people, are going to make more sense with an electronic viewfinder, especially for owner/operator/DP's who work on their own, rather than a traditional film set with separate operators, DP, focus-pullers, etc.

I mean, ask high-end DLSR users if they'd prefer that their cameras only have an LCD screen and no optical viewfinder.

[Jannard]

There is no reason to make the optical viewfinder issue a big emotional debate, there are simply pros and cons to both optical and electronic viewfinders.

Traditionally on a film shoot, the operator looked through the actual taking lens and had the best opinion about whether the shot was in focus or not -- now with 35mm sensor digital cameras, no matter what electronic viewfinder I've used, the operator is a poorer judge of focus during a take than anyone else watching on a larger monitor.

That changes a lot of the dynamics on a set, as traditionally the operator and the focus puller discussed between them any focus problems, now it's the DP (me) telling both of them back from my monitor where they made mistakes. On the other hand, on a 24" HD monitor, I can catch mistakes in focus like never before, which is good. On the other hand, a lot of focus pullers get fired these days because now everyone can see their mistakes in real time.

Second, with an optical viewfinder, one can line-up a shot without the camera being turned on. So many times on digital shows, I've had the camera on in order to set-up and light the set, only to have the battery need to be swapped out during Take One.

There are lots of reasons why it's a good idea to be able to look through the actual lens.

Now there are a lot of good reasons to use electronic viewfinders, exposure information being the primary one. Optical viewfinders don't tell an operator whether they are exposing the shot properly. If you are shooting in charging light conditions, like while shooting on a moving car through landscapes of changing light levels, it's a lot easier to make quick guesses as to how to adjust the iris with an electronic viewfinder and guides like zebras and whatnot. Plus you have information available about shutter speed, color temp, battery level, etc. if you want.

So I wouldn't dismiss those who want an optical viewfinder out of hand if you don't have a lot of personal experience operating a movie camera with one, because it is a unique experience to see a scene through the optics of a lens with your own eyes, without the filter of an electronic image. But I also agree in general that digital cameras, for most people, are going to make more sense with an electronic viewfinder, especially for owner/operator/DP's who work on their own, rather than a traditional film set with separate operators, DP, focus-pullers, etc.

I mean, ask high-end DLSR users if they'd prefer that their cameras only have an LCD screen and no optical viewfinder.

David... thoughtful as always. We are in development because there still seem to be customers that wish for an OVF. My main concern is if we really finish and offer this module, will we really sell any? We originally were going to offer a RAW port for the RED ONE for uncompressed output (even though we thought it was a bad idea). We got orders for 4 of them. Certainly not enough to justify the completion of the development. I am afraid of the same thing happening. People want it until the time they actually have to order one. At $20K for an OVF, will there actually be orders?

We are all ears on this one. The community will decide whether we finish and offer or abandon.

Jim

[Justin O'Neill]

I mean, ask high-end DLSR users if they'd prefer that their cameras only have an LCD screen and no optical viewfinder.

Yeah I had always thought OVFs were outdated until I bought nice a DSLR with a good OVF and suddenly I understood what people were talking about. There is something unique about looking through a high quality OVF. I still usually prefer an LCD or EVF for shooting video, but now I always use the OVF for stills.

[David Mullen ASC]

Honestly, if Panavision decided that an OVF wasn't necessary for the Genesis, that should tell you something in regards to which is more necessary, an OVF or an EVF.

As I said, the better color EVF's get, the more the desire for an OVF will diminish. It's similar to the uncompressed vs. compressed issue -- the better compression gets, the less people care about the uncompressed option. The SRW1 HDCAM-SR deck compresses afterall yet no one seems to complain about that because it's so mild.

However, the desire by some for an OVF is very real, and there is obviously a production market out there that follows a traditional cine-style set-up using union crews, even if the other markets are larger. The feature filmmaking market may be smaller in size, but it's not necessarily smaller in money spent (not on cameras, but on production.)

And as you've noticed, one reason video companies like Canon and Sony get into the smaller cine market is for the prestige and marketing advantages that having big-time name filmmakers using their products gives them -- I'm sure it trickles down somewhat.

Obviously your primary concern has to be with a camera with better EVF's and better compression schemes, which will satisfy 90% of your customers. Whether or not to develop an OVF and uncompressed output option is mainly an issue of whether you can do afford do it considering the smaller number of people that want or need it. They are definitely desirable items for the high-end feature production market, but that's such a small market in terms of number of units sold that you may decide to just let ARRI and whatnot serve them. On the other hand, people may notice that small cameras like the SI-2K have an OVF option and wonder why RED can't do something similar.

[Raul Gonzo]

Perhaps the time has come to start taking deposits - just for the OVFs... If not enough deposits are received, abandon it.

[BradWright]

. At $20K for an OVF, will there actually be orders?

We are all ears on this one. The community will decide whether we finish and offer or abandon.

Jim

$20K is good price point. It forces people to decide how serious they are about the OVF. Getting people to commit money to a product is a whole lot better than making the decision through marketing research alone. $20k could be better spent for electronic monitoring at higher resolutions.

[Jonathon Laing]

I don't now. I mean, if you can get a whole camera for $1,700, why not a viewfinder? Then again, I don't know anything about what it takes to build something like this. Obviously the economies of scale are much different than a 7D. I was just trying to give some perspective.

Sometimes, if I spend like a couple grand on a lens, for example, I will stop and think to myself: "WTF. I could have bought a motorcycle for this price." Or gone to Africa for 5 weeks, or whatever.

Shit yeh man, My video card cost me more then my car. :lol:

[Jun-Dai]

At $20K for an OVF, will there actually be orders?


As long as you have a reasonable idea as to what it would cost to build the OVF (a big 'if', I suppose), isn't it just as simple as taking deposits (10%, 50%, whatever commitment level you need) until you have enough to indicate the commitment to at least cover the costs? Then putting a time limit on it wherein you'll refund the deposits should they fail to reach some threshold.

It also seems like OVF might be important to the success of the system for DSMC. I imagine filmmakers are much more comfortable with EVFs and off-camera monitoring than still photographers would be. If Canon took the OVF off the 1Ds, wouldn't that be enough reason for a lot of Canon photographers to switch to Nikon? And yet the current plans for Scarlet and Epic FF are aimed at a segment of the still market, and despite the range of non-OVF options that go along with them, I think the lack of an OVF would be a pretty big barrier to a lot of still photographers, particularly those that don't want a big monitor attached to their camera.

[Pietro Impagliazzo]

As long as you have a reasonable idea as to what it would cost to build the OVF (a big 'if', I suppose), isn't it just as simple as taking deposits (10%, 50%, whatever commitment level you need) until you have enough to indicate the commitment to at least cover the costs? Then putting a time limit on it wherein you'll refund the deposits should they fail to reach some threshold.

It also seems like OVF might be important to the success of the system for DSMC. I imagine filmmakers are much more comfortable with EVFs and off-camera monitoring than still photographers would be. If Canon took the OVF off the 1Ds, wouldn't that be enough reason for a lot of Canon photographers to switch to Nikon? And yet the current plans for Scarlet and Epic FF are aimed at a segment of the still market, and despite the range of non-OVF options that go along with them, I think the lack of an OVF would be a pretty big barrier to a lot of still photographers, particularly those that don't want a big monitor attached to their camera.

So still photographers would pay 20 grand for an optical viewfinder?

I don't think so.

[Emmanuel Decarpentrie]

I couldn't care less about the optical viewfinder by itself. However, I am very interested in getting the option to rent a mechanical shutter (spinning mirror) from time to time, whenever I or the director, feel the need for totally getting rid of rolling shutter issues, like skew, wobble or partial exposures with very defined limit between what has been "partially" exposed and what wasn't!

My understanding is that, no matter how fast the rolling shutter might be, there will always be certain moments where I really wished I had a spinning mirror, just to get the EXACT same movement and/or partial exposition issues I'd get as if I was shooting film!

I personally recently experienced a situation where the RED-ONE was dismissed as a choice by the production of a full feature in favor of a D21, partially for that particular reason: absence of mechanical shutter on the RED-ONE! When you consider the gap in rental fees between a D21 and a RED-ONE, it is easy to realize you might very well have a reasonably sized market for renting "Spinning Mirror" modules for the EPIC.

And, for a reasonably sized rental company, 20.000$ is next to nothing, so long as the product is rented -- especially if they force their customers to rent a whole package to get access to that particular module! They'll just charge 300-400$/day for it. With that kind of fees, I'm pretty sure the overall market size for a "Spinning Mirror (+ OVF for whoever might find that useful)" module for the EPIC would easily get bigger than 200 Units, mainly bought by the top rental companies -- who need this kind of things to differentiate themselves from the prosumer Scarlet user who wish he could rent his camera a 100$/day or so! Furthermore, I'm 100% sure the availability of that kind of modules for the EPIC would increase the overall image and demand (and market) for RED in general, among rental houses in particular!

Some products aren't extremely profitable by themselves, but the simple fact they exists facilitates the awareness and image from the rest of the product range! The opposite is also quite true, I'm afraid: the non-existence of certain products for some cameras might in fact affect its sales by giving it a "lower end" sort of image! The question isn't simply: "can you afford to develop such a module?", but also "can you afford not to?"

[Michael Hastings]

It also seems like OVF might be important to the success of the system for DSMC. I imagine filmmakers are much more comfortable with EVFs and off-camera monitoring than still photographers would be. If Canon took the OVF off the 1Ds, wouldn't that be enough reason for a lot of Canon photographers to switch to Nikon? And yet the current plans for Scarlet and Epic FF are aimed at a segment of the still market, and despite the range of non-OVF options that go along with them, I think the lack of an OVF would be a pretty big barrier to a lot of still photographers, particularly those that don't want a big monitor attached to their camera.


So still photographers would pay 20 grand for an optical viewfinder?

I don't think so.

These are the reasons that the DSMC concept is probably NOT that viable for large numbers of photographers that do primarily stills. A 5d or 7D user doesn't give up anything to have a bonus video camera also. For stills, they still have their exact same setup: i.e. OVF/mirror system; 18 or 21 or whatever megapixel stills; uncompressed raw files; very high powered electronic flash that works on batteries or standard wall power; etc.

They lose the OVF for video but they have probably never operated a motion picture camera that wasn't EVF based - i.e. some form of video camera.

Yet to do a shoot on a DSMC Epic or Scarlet, or REDONE, particularly when extracting stills from the movie, you lose all of that: no OVF, lower MP, compressed files; requires high powered (daylight preferred) continuous lighting; etc.

Doing a studio magazine shoot or something similar with a REDONE/Epic is a very cool concept that has its place, but I think in the long run it will be the exception rather than the norm if the main interest is stills. There still is too much size difference - and more importantly the huge difference in the lenses, lighting, setup, and other production accoutrements that go along with a motion shoot - to make it a total game changer.

I think it is much more likely that 95% of epic owners (and even non-owner users like David Mullen) will have an $1800 Canon 7D or equivalent in their toolkit than that even 50% of pro still shooters will have a full fledged DSMC like a $3000 to $50000 Epic/Scarlet.

Again, nothing wrong with that - "horses for courses". I like the fact that Epic/Scarlet CAN do it all, but it doesn't mean it will be the BEST tool for the job.

[Patrick Tresch]

Will the OVD (spinning mirror) have any impact on picture quality (read out time /motion blur...) ?

If yes, it will have a market (the D21 argument Emmanuel developped).

IMHO

Patrick

[Lee Saxon]

It also seems like OVF might be important to the success of the system for DSMC. I imagine filmmakers are much more comfortable with EVFs and off-camera monitoring than still photographers would be. If Canon took the OVF off the 1Ds, wouldn't that be enough reason for a lot of Canon photographers to switch to Nikon? And yet the current plans for Scarlet and Epic FF are aimed at a segment of the still market, and despite the range of non-OVF options that go along with them, I think the lack of an OVF would be a pretty big barrier to a lot of still photographers, particularly those that don't want a big monitor attached to their camera.

Yeah, even if you don't decide to go ahead with the $20k motion OVF, a stills-only one (hopefully costing much less) would I think still be a big draw for that market.

I for example am very anxious to buy a Scarlet for motion work but the lack of a real viewfinder (and yes, for still photographers, OVFs are 'real' viewfinders and EVFs, monitors, and even rangefinders are 'fake' viewfinders! sorry!) is one of the biggest reasons I will continue to also own a Nikon DSLR.

[Imran Farouk]

Lower MP maybe one thing but in the long run when the monstro sensors come out I think losing MP won't be an issue as I think 600+ MP is kinda crazy...

Overall though the EPIC/Scarlet systems are to fullfill both markets, thats what is said, it doesn't do one thing good and the other brilliant its suppose to go all out, guns blazing...if that is true in reality is something that'll need to be tested but both are coming out RAW (or a compression suited to deliver RAW, R3DCode).

Though I think everyone could argue that theres no such thing as 'the best tool for the job on every job'. There is however, the most likely tool and of course the potential for RED to push to be that tool on every job, only time will tell though...

Right now, prep your wallets, give out your ideas on the EPIC/Scarlet system...
Never know whats around the corner after they've OK'd the ASIC

[Quentin Brown]

Correct Häakon. This was more about Scarlet. I' didn't realise that this was in a Red One forum thread as I linked to it from elsewhere.

My questions to do with ergonomics, auto features and audio still stand though, since the system is modular, but I guess these are more concerns for Scarlet customers with EFP intentions than the readers of this forum who are most likely Cinematographers working with very different priorities and requirements.

I think if the ergonomics, auto features and audio can be make to work right the Scarlet stands to gain a huge amount of the Broadcast market for work that has some post production time (and even that that doesnt with the REDrocket though it would be a bit overkill for News work). Projected pricing for the 2/3" Scarlets make them cheaper than any other current Pro/ Semi Pro HD cameras with 2/3" chips on the market for the Broadcast industry and they can slay them for framerates and resolution plus more besides. I have no idea how many cams are out there in the broadcast industry but I reckon many more than RED can sell to the film industry as long as the ergonomics, auto features and audio is right and the word gets out. As they are a company that listen I am pretty hopeful they will get all this down.

[KETCH ROSSi]

Whats an OVF??!

Just Kidding.. but seriously, it has been since forever that I have not used or come across any one that has been using a camera with one, that I even completely forgot it actually existed and what it was there for a moment.

NO, No way would I want ever go back to one, the EVF on the R1 is just an incredible proof of how much better an EVF is vs. a OVF, and I know that they might be specific uses for it, but I can't put a single one on the list of a must have, some of its uses and benefits are in deed, great ones, and not only by its optical characteristics, but per example as David has already mentioned, the fact of been able to play around with your scenes and shots framing with the camera turned off, replacing the need for a Director's Viewfinder, even so only acceptable in some occasions, as some times it is easier and faster to use a DVF then the actual camera set up, avoiding over heating issues when unnecessary as well as off course as important saving battery, but still none of this are worth giving up the benefits of the EVF and forging out 20K which could be put in to much better use in to a set of RPP's.

[Lewis-M Soucy]

Here's some pics...
http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs268.snc1/9526_137039412201_559327201_2945059_168975_n.jpg
http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs268.snc1/9526_137046897201_559327201_2945161_2737655_n.jpg
http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs248.snc1/9526_137046882201_559327201_2945158_6590935_n.jpg
The new tiny EVF...
http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs248.snc1/9526_137046912201_559327201_2945164_741561_n.jpg
The new tactile monitor...
http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs248.snc1/9526_137046922201_559327201_2945165_2455958_n.jpg
The battery module...
http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs248.snc1/9526_137039417201_559327201_2945060_2019926_n.jpg
That's Jarred... :)
http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs248.snc1/9526_137040337201_559327201_2945063_1927432_n.jpg
And that's me with you know who... :)

[Pietro Impagliazzo]

The new tiny EVF...
http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs248.snc1/9526_137046912201_559327201_2945164_741561_n.jpg
http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs248.snc1/9526_137040337201_559327201_2945063_1927432_n.jpg
And that's me with you know who... :)

Thanks for the photos Lewis!
Nice new small monitor, that's the one I'll use on my fixed Scarlet... (tears eyes)

You're looking just like a french action-film director. :emote_popcorn:
Good luck on your project!

[Lewis-M Soucy]

Thanks for the photos Lewis!
Nice new small monitor, that's the one I'll use on my fixed Scarlet... (tears eyes)

You're looking just like a french action-film director. :emote_popcorn:
Good luck on your project!

Thanks! Will get that one too (7" hopefully, that's the 5")...
Will try and be as good a director as I look then...:laugh:
Stay tuned...

[Tim Whitcomb]

Thanks! Will get that one too (7" hopefully, that's the 5")...
Will try and be as good a director as I look then...:laugh:
Stay tuned...

thanks for posting! so you got to hold it!!!!!:emote_22_yikes:

how was the weight?

[Jarred Land]

Little Treat:

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=34492&page=14

[jimhare]

Hey Lewis, thanks for posting the pics!

How heavy did the EPIC feel in the configuration you tested? Looked like it had audio and battery modules attached.

From the look on your face, doesn't appear to be nearly the weight of the Red One.

Cheers,

Jim

[Lewis-M Soucy]

thanks for posting! so you got to hold it!!!!!:emote_22_yikes:

how was the weight?

Yes, I was fortunate Jarred was kind enough to let us touch it, The weight was much lighter than the Red One, except it didn't have the battery module on and I don't know just how much real inside part the prototype actually comprised...

But it seems globally lighter and smaller in a way that many configurations will be possible with different (tons) of levels of comfort...

[Lewis-M Soucy]

Hey Lewis, thanks for posting the pics!

How heavy did the EPIC feel in the configuration you tested? Looked like it had audio and battery modules attached.

From the look on your face, doesn't appear to be nearly the weight of the Red One.

Cheers,

Jim

Right! Just look on my face (although excitement might have overcome pain at this precise moment :D)...

No battery module, it was the brain, the CF module and the audio module, oh and the side handle... And no monitor or evf either... I'm sure it will be lighter anyway, so it felt to me anyway, and because the monitor and evf are smaller, the rest is all modular, just the brain is like a big Nikon, and you can see me holding it like a camera for it had the side handle attached as well...

Really neat, trust me...

[Tim Nolte]

the openings are connected to a completely sealed system.. its a closed tube that uses forced air to cool heatsinks. The only thing exposed is the fans that blow the air.. and those are user cleanable and changeable.

Hi Jarred, long-time listener, first-time caller. :emote_couch: I've been trying to reconcile "completely sealed" with "exposed fans". By completely sealed, you mean the cooling tubes are sealed off from the inside, not the outside, is that right?

[Jarred Land]

yes.. its like a yummy donut :)

[Stefan Christou]

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs248.snc1/9526_137040337201_559327201_2945063_1927432_n.jpg
And that's me with you know who... :)

How are you managing to hold epic yet still look so angry? How man? how?

[Steven Caesare]

They told him he had to give it back?

[James Kirst]

When do the RED Watches come out???

[Pietro Impagliazzo]

RED people are quiet lately.

Things must be interesting for them.