Some good 1080P news... [Archive]

Jannard

08-05-2007, 10:43 AM

1st off, we haven't decided anything yet. 2nd, the good news about this program is that it can change.

Nothing is locked down... ever. As we continue to figure out how to implement features (given the constraints of our foundation) we will do so. We have said that not all features will be enabled at the beginning. We are trying to lock down what the target is for the next few months. If there is a group that NEEDS 720P and/or 1080P, given enough time we can provide that. There may well be two or three software options in the future. Pick one and load it. Change your mind and load another. That is certainly possible and we are now considering this as an option for the future.

We have reserved the right to change specs at any time and for any reason. Our goal in doing this is to be able to improve the camera, not make your life miserable. We have improved the camera and spec package dramatically since some of you placed orders at NAB 2006. There was no 4K or 2K recording on camera. There was no REDCODE RAW. What comes with the camera is significantly better than what we advertised 12 months ago.

Because we have the right to change "for any reason", it is only fair that you should have the same right. You can place an order, cancel an order, decide that your needs have changed and request new things, change your accessory order at the last minute. You can choose to pay for a sensor upgrade when one becomes available or not. It is only fair. If we continue to find ways to give you more options, we will.

What I heard through this debate the past few days is that there really are many who are holding on to 720P and 1080P recording. We are now looking at what we can do to satisfy those needs. It may not happen immediately, remember that these were to be the last features enabled anyway, and if we have to do something creative... we will.

We value everyone's comments and needs. We are here to serve. It may come in a package we hadn't planned on. But this whole project has taken on a life we hadn't forseen in the beginning.

The good news is we have interested customers. And the good news for our customers is that we really want to satisfy their needs.

Thanks to all for the passionate feedback.

Just a reminder (again). We will not have all features enabled from the beginning. Actually we will never have all the features enabled because we will keep adding and changing as the needs dictate. Welcome to the World of RED.

Jim

Milan Nikolic

08-05-2007, 10:51 AM

Simply, thaks again Jim for listening! You and RED team are something new in the industry of camera making. Keep the good work!

Pol Turrents

08-05-2007, 10:52 AM

It's interesting to see how things changes everyday in this project.
Thank you for considering any option, and giving the chance to have a camera for everybody.
In the lasts days I've been reading too many agressive and bad attitude posts against 1080 and 720.
Thanks to this probably all of us will be happy.

Jeff Kilgroe

08-05-2007, 10:56 AM

Jim,

Even though many of us here like to disagree with one another over which features will serve everyone best... I think we all do agree that you and your team are doing an amazing job and will take care of everyone's interests. The continuous development and flexibility are truly refreshing in this industry and completely mind-blowing to those of us who come from a "prosumer" and mid-range HD shooting background. We have never even had the ability to load seemingly necessary firmware and feature updates to our existing cameras... And now you're saying there's a chance of having multiple firmware/software options at some point, to fit the needs of different uses. Truly awesome.

luis bustamante

08-05-2007, 10:56 AM

Thanks for letting us be a part of history, Jim. Just the insight of the whole process since December '05 has been worth the money we have given you!

One question: Are you still planning to have only the first 100 cameras not fully feature enabled, or has this number changed as well?

The best,

Steve Gibby

08-05-2007, 10:56 AM

Thanks for that excellent news Jim...and thanks to RED Team for their hard work and patience through this development cycle.

The sheer scope of RED's work on this project is staggering for sure. You guys like a challenge...and you've risen to the occasion.

RED adopters are a diverse family. I know it's nearly impossible to keep everyone happy. By listening to our concerns and genuinely explaining and adjusting your proposed spec, RED stands out as being entirely different from most other equipment manufacturers in this industry.

Thanks again for the hard work, long hours, and open ears...very much appreciated.

Sam Druckerman

08-05-2007, 11:18 AM

Jim,

Thanks for maintaining your comment to excellence after what must be a grueling past 20 months or so.... Your work ethic is an inspiration.

I Love to tell doubters how the camera I made a deposit on, is now...... Even Better than what I expected!

There may well be two or three software options in the future. Pick one and load it. Change your mind and load another. That is certainly possible and we are now considering this as an option for the future.
Jim

I'm sorry I don't know who's idea this originally was, ...

But, I think it's a great solution to help in making the RED ONE the most versatile professional acquisition tool ... Ever.

Thrilled to hear you're considering it.

Cheers!

CVB

08-05-2007, 11:21 AM

Jim, When I was at Cisco we used to have bootloaders that would allow us to pick a firmware image at bootup. It was really cool.. an lcd screen would list several images and you just pick one. I'm not sure what your situation is with memory allocation etc but that would be a neat option.

Nils Ruinet

08-05-2007, 11:24 AM

Multiple firmwares is the way to go, thanks Jim !
Now everybody will be happy :)

Jannard

08-05-2007, 11:25 AM

One question: Are you still planning to have only the first 100 cameras not fully feature enabled, or has this number changed as well?

The best,

Now that we have established that all features will never be fully enabled since they will continue to change over time, the answer is easy. The next question is how long will it take to get which features enabled when.

We are now revamping the feature set enablement schedule. It is safe to say that primary features will be continue to be enabled for a few months and most, except how we decide to handle 720P and 1080P will be done by the end of this year. We have a lot of work to do so give us some time to answer the "can you be specific" question that you all want to ask in your next post. :-)

Jim

ericyoung

08-05-2007, 11:32 AM

Multiple firmwares is the way to go, thanks Jim !
Now everybody will be happy :)

OOOOooooyessss! :usd:

Been refraining from posting in the post torrent, but that's what I've been waiting to hear about!

User loadable options is IT!

C.H.Haskell

08-05-2007, 11:34 AM

"Pick one and load it"....yikes! Sounds like a perfect solution for everyone...so Jim this would be like A. Upload the cine software that includes settings that cater to making a feature or B. Upload an ENG software that enables 720/1080 and so on? I dont know how you guys manage to do it but like others I am just glad to some how be a part of it. RED is not a means to an end, its just grows naturally with all of us. Cheers and thanks for listening.

ericyoung

08-05-2007, 11:37 AM

Don King

08-05-2007, 11:40 AM

The next question is how long will it take to get which features enabled when.

All this hype is very funny but for WHO really JUST needs to work instead a playground, we're asking when will we actualy have a 4K RedCode RAW @ 25 fps / 2K scaled RedCode RAW @ 60 fps / 2K windowed RedCode RAW @ 100 fps?

That's all.

Jannard

08-05-2007, 11:45 AM

All this hype is very funny but for WHO really JUST needs to work instead a playground, we're asking when will we actualy have a 4K RedCode RAW @ 25 fps / 2K scaled RedCode RAW @ 60 fps / 2K windowed RedCode RAW @ 100 fps?

That's all.

Don... I don't see a reservation number next to your post. If you put in your order now I am quite certain that almost every feature you want will be available by the time we can ship you a camera.

Jim

Shawn Nelson

08-05-2007, 11:47 AM

Jim, will audio and timecode be enabled on the first cameras?

Jannard

08-05-2007, 12:00 PM

Jim, will audio and timecode be enabled on the first cameras?

Timecode is enabled now and being used in Spain on Soderbergh's movie. Audio will come after the 1st cameras are shipped. We are reworking the schedule so I can't tell you the current date.

Jim

Anders Holck

08-05-2007, 12:00 PM

Of course, flashing firmware in the field could be dangerous - interrupted flashing leading to dead Red! So we'd need a bulletproof factory reset, so that we could always recover a corrupted/interrupted firmware flash in the middle of some godforsaken jungle/desert! :)

A well designed system shouldn't hose the camera if the update goes wrong.
I believe the way to do it is to have a small very low-level boot "partition" that will not be updated during the flash. It's only functionality is boot or flash.
A malfunctioning update would hose the camera only until you retry the update.

Desert Rune

08-05-2007, 12:02 PM

Hi Jim,

I work a lot with 1080P and love the fact that Reds can output dSLR quality images with 12-stops of latitude and REDCODE compression. That's the biggest draw, for me. If it can output that format without going through any post-production steps would be welcome.

4K is the roasted sweet marshmallow on top of the chocolate wafer on top of the whipping cream.

888

Stephen Webb

08-05-2007, 12:10 PM

In the lasts days I've been reading too many agressive and bad attitude posts against 1080 and 720.

I dunno, it's been passionate certainly but hasn't degenerated into personal or nasty. Say's something for the professionalism of this board if you ask me (unlike some, cough).

Anyway, thanks for the upate Jim. I think I can go back to sleep now - I've posted more in the last three days than in the previous three months.

Michael Hastings

08-05-2007, 12:12 PM

Hi Jim,

4K is the roasted sweet marshmallow on top of the chocolate wafer on top of the whipping cream.

888

Yeah, man and I see sprinkled cashews coming soon.

David Cubbage

08-05-2007, 12:13 PM

Thank you Jim; I think this is the best solution of all; pure genius! I do remember it was suggested in the heat of the debate by one of the community; can't quite remember who, there were so many long posts. I don't think I have ever spent so much time on the board since the F verses T stop debate.

I have only recently joined this community after ordering my Red in April and I must say I have never experienced anything like this before. You don't just buy a camera from Red, you adopt it; you have a say in it's development; not just for now, but forever.

Don King

08-05-2007, 12:14 PM

Don... I don't see a reservation number next to your post. If you put in your order now I am quite certain that almost every feature you want will be available by the time we can ship you a camera.

Jim

Yes, but first I want to shoot and test its performance and use for my work. I'll be renting. I have already scheduled a shooting with for the 4Q. Will it be available then? I mean: 4K RedCode RAW @ 25 fps / 2K scaled RedCode RAW @ 60 fps / 2K windowed RedCode RAW @ 100 fps?

Joel Kaye

08-05-2007, 12:15 PM

Don... I don't see a reservation number next to your post. If you put in your order now I am quite certain that almost every feature you want will be available by the time we can ship you a camera.

Heh... I think there's a decent chance everyone concerned about it will have a 720P/1080P workflow figured out before you get it programmed into the camera. It may end up being no big deal.

But get the audio working! Do that WAY first. There's a lot of quick turnaround stuff a lot of us don't want to have to sync sound for.

Anyway - can't wait to get my paws on my RED fully working or not. Thanks for kickin' ass as usual!

Larry

08-05-2007, 12:17 PM

Jim, Thank you for this post which hopefully also settles the discussion. Personally I can easily accept the strategy of RED you described. It is a fair play. Still, there are two issues I hope you could consider within your team

1) Is it possible to get even a preliminary schedule or a priority list in which the new things will possibly appear? For example, as you noticed already in the other thread, all of us who work in Europe desperately need the 25p format, and your words that it is already on its way, or under work and test, was a relief. The key point is, at this end we need to build our business, which is about planning and negotiating of the coming projects. It becomes rather difficult to make any serious plans on RED, if there's no idea when, or in which order, we may, at least preliminary, expect to see new options.

Now, I'm not talking of this format discussion which has been going for the last days. What I mean are questions like, will Redcine run in Windows machines, will it really be possible to convert to whatever format from Redcine, what kind of plans are there to get Redcode to the most comme NLEs and so on? This is to say, there's a bunch of questions which need some tentative answer before it becomes possible to build projects on RED.

2) Since you have this unsual business strategy, I hope you go this way as long and far as possible. That is, the change RED will make in cinema and EFP business depends on how much business the *owners* will be able to make with the camera. Is it wishful thinking if I believe, the more you open doors towards other companies, the more RED will win?

We are all victims of the business strategies which led to ridiculous situations such as that each of us probably has almost a sperate charger for each electronic device we own. For instance, I think we have at least twenty different kind of charges in our house; each mobile phone has its own, the portable dvds do, each laptop, and so on. Or, has any user ever gained anything by the competing dvd-R, dvd+R standards? Technically the lack of standards doesn't make sense. Nobody gains of the situation that the Canon 24/25f HDV format cannot be played back in Sony decks etc. Nobody really gains if company Blue makes bolts and those did not fit with the screws of manufacturer Yellow.

If I've got it right, there is currently no 4K standard, so RED has a unique chance to create one for digital cinema. In practice this meant one were able to convert from Redcode to others and vice versa. And now, I have here one important and selfish(?) wish; If there was a conversion between Redcode raw and Cineform raw, then it did not matter when Redcode appears to Adobe software and Windows. In the mean time, I knew for sure I may plan new projects immediately and start to do business on RED as soon as the camera arrives. Guess, I would not be the only one, but instead many would follow the same root at the first place.

Perhaps not all know, RED users should be thankful for a Belgium mathematician Ingrid Daubechies on her work on wavelets. The wavelet compression is one of the key issues and innovations behind RED, and Daubedics shared her knowledge and her unique findings for the rest of the world in the 80's for free as people customarily do in science. And now, RED and we all gain for what she did. Summing up, the local optimals are seldom global ones.

Shawn Nelson

08-05-2007, 12:18 PM

Timecode is enabled now and being used in Spain on Soderbergh's movie. Audio will come after the 1st cameras are shipped. We are reworking the schedule so I can't tell you the current date.

Jim

Oh shoot, I thought that'd be there. In order to get audio functional will I have to mail my Red back?

Jannard

08-05-2007, 12:24 PM

Oh shoot, I thought that'd be there. In order to get audio functional will I have to mail my Red back?

No. It is an email or download and upload to camera via CF or USB. Easy. We are making every feature enablement via this method. You'll send your camera in ONLY if there is a hardware issue (we hope that won't happen) or for someting major like a sensor upgrade.

Jim

Jannard

08-05-2007, 12:28 PM

Yes, but first I want to shoot and test its performance and use for my work. I'll be renting. I have already scheduled a shooting with for the 4Q. Will it be available then? I mean: 4K RedCode RAW @ 25 fps / 2K scaled RedCode RAW @ 60 fps / 2K windowed RedCode RAW @ 100 fps?

I mentioned in my previous post that 2K windowed REDCODE RAW @ 100 fps is Under Development. We are reworking the enablement schedule now. I recommend that you rent something else if we can't meet you schedule.

Jim

Gbabymogul

08-05-2007, 12:44 PM

I thought the 1080p discussion was pretty professional on all sides. Insofar as this announcement, it's a cool compromise to losing 1080p. But, it's sort of like if you had a reservation on a revolutionary Mazerati that could switch from auto to manual, and then the manufacturer says that they're switching to manual, and may include the auto when they finish everything else. Customers thank the manufacturer for the privelege. Huh ?

Aaight, I get that we are gettting a much better camera than when I first put my reservation money down, and i fully appreciate ALL the benefits (price, design etc...) since I've been here since the first mention of the camera. Yet, I consider myself a realist. This is a compromise to a design step back and not an advancement, IMO. In that regard I appreciate the openess and honesty of RED and the whole team. Still on board. Enthusiastic to see the camera perform, and i hope we can get a specific schedule on updates (except for 1080p, 720p) before Sept. Obrigado.

Just me 3 pence :biggrin:

Adrian T.

08-05-2007, 12:46 PM

We will not have all features enabled from the beginning. Actually we will never have all the features enabled because we will keep adding and changing as the needs dictate. Welcome to the World of RED.

Jim

Hehehe! :)
That's the way to go! Thanks for creating a whole new world.

Stephen Webb

08-05-2007, 12:48 PM

In order to get audio functional will I have to mail my Red back?

AUDIO???

What do you need audio for man? This a CINEMA camera, we don't record audio onboard! This is another of those EFP things, isn't it?

<TUMBLEWEED>

I'll get my coat.

TAXI!

Don King

08-05-2007, 12:52 PM

I mentioned in my previous post that 2K windowed REDCODE RAW @ 100 fps is Under Development. We are reworking the enablement schedule now. I recommend that you rent something else if we can't meet you schedule.

JimI see.

Can I count with the 4K RedCode RAW @ 25 fps / 2K scaled RedCode RAW @ 60 fps during 4Q, at least?

Cory Schulthies

08-05-2007, 12:59 PM

Excellent move! just what I wanted and then some.

So I assume that we could just have a different CF card for each firmware version on hand and have no problems switching between them on set if needs be. Or, could we put multiple firmwares on one cf card and then pick which one out of a menu? This would definitely make it more convenient.

Daniel Reichenbach

08-05-2007, 01:17 PM

There is a very knowkn swiss dealer of digital cameras and editing systems. One and a have year ago, I told him to visit www.red.com (http://www.red.com), explained him what RED could do for the industry. He just laughed and called me a dreamer. "Never", he said, "never will it be possible to build a camera in this short time, never ever." And he added: "Do you think, the technicians at SONY, Panasonic ASO wouldn't build such a camera when it is possible?" I then explained him, that RED is not an ordinary camera, RED is a philosophy a new way to think about high-tech, to put together the best brains and ideas from arround the world.
Until now this swiss dealer don't believe, that RED will deliver a working camera and call me a fool.
In some weeks I will be the luckiest fool, proud to be owner of such a cool tool. With the best features build in and the funiest service pack ever heard of: things may change....

number6

08-05-2007, 01:30 PM

If there is a group that NEEDS 720P and/or 1080P, given enough time we can provide that. There may well be two or three software options in the future. Pick one and load it. Change your mind and load another. That is certainly possible and we are now considering this as an option for the future.

Solomon, Jim... Solomon!

Jannard

08-05-2007, 01:35 PM

I see.

Can I count with the 4K RedCode RAW @ 25 fps / 2K scaled RedCode RAW @ 60 fps during 4Q, at least?

My mistake... from the actual post, you can see we are not getting much sleep.

Here is the list for today:

4K REDCODE RAW @ 1-60 fps to RAW Port
4K REDCODE RAW @ 1-24 fps to Compact Flash or RED Drive

2K REDCODE RAW scaled @ 1-60 fps to Compact Flash or RED Drive (Under development)
2K REDCODE RAW cropped @ 1-100 fps to Compact Flash or RED Drive

Don... my recommendation is that you rent something else.

Jim

vidalsosa

08-05-2007, 01:45 PM

Don... my recommendation is that you rent something else.

Jim

Don doesn't seem like he really cares about renting, buying or whatever. He just wants to take a dig at Red, I think.

Phil Bates

08-05-2007, 01:50 PM

...We value everyone's comments and needs. We are here to serve. It may come in a package we hadn't planned on. But this whole project has taken on a life we hadn't forseen in the beginning.

Jim

Jim, we're obviously excited about your desire to improve the camera and change specs to meet demand, etc. However, being an empathetic business owner, I am concerned that your cost of goods is going up as well. I hope you feel free to adjust pricing to match features (for the future, obviously) and charge what you need to keep the company healthy. We want you around a long time not burned out or draining your personal resources. :)

Phil
www.artbeats.com

Elijah Kelley

08-05-2007, 01:53 PM

Thanks Jim...again,

I see this as bend over backwards for all your customers. It's admirable that you continue to be open. Unlike one post suggest that this is a set back (no doubt trying to goad you into a confrontation) I know a revolution when I've joined one.

We know that over at RED you'll "make it do what it (didn't) do" so... thanks again.

P.S. You actually sleep over at RED?

Paul Hazlett

08-05-2007, 01:59 PM

AUDIO???

What do you need audio for man? This a CINEMA camera, we don't record audio onboard! This is another of those EFP things, isn't it?

<TUMBLEWEED>

I'll get my coat.

TAXI!

heheh you are either very brave or very drunk right now....its too easy I will
refrain from a serious reply.

Paul Hazlett

08-05-2007, 02:07 PM

We value everyone's comments and needs. We are here to serve. It may come in a package we hadn't planned on. But this whole project has taken on a life we hadn't forseen in the beginning.

The good news is we have interested customers. And the good news for our customers is that we really want to satisfy their needs.

Jim

allright, I have had it with all this pandering to the "customer needs" you guys are entirely too nice to us, I feel like I will wake soon from this dream of
harmonius customer/vendor relationship a find the same crap we get from most vendors.

If more companies did business this way we would all be way too happy.
that cant be good.

Paul Hazlett

08-05-2007, 02:11 PM

Jim, we're obviously excited about your desire to improve the camera and change specs to meet demand, etc. However, being an empathetic business owner, I am concerned that your cost of goods is going up as well. I hope you feel free to adjust pricing to match features (for the future, obviously) and charge what you need to keep the company healthy. We want you around a long time not burned out or draining your personal resources. :)

Phil
www.artbeats.com

shhhhhhhh maybe they won't notice they have not changed the price but increased the camera's value ten fold..

Matt Redmond

08-05-2007, 02:14 PM

A 25fps question:

I assume that the 24fps limit is due to data rates and not being able to guarantee anything higher when recording to on-board storage. I'm assuming this as 1-60fps at 4k will be available through the RAW port - so currently the camera at least 'understands' how to do 25fps.

It seems like it's not recommended to hold our breath for 25fps at 4k recorded on-board this year.

Which makes me wonder...Is 25fps to CF or Drive a disabled function in software (so not possible without upgrade) or will it be enabled but physically impossible to work due to current data rates? This is important as 25fps may be possible IF we had media guaranteed to be fast enough to cope.

Morning Glory

08-05-2007, 02:48 PM

Thanks Jim...again,

P.S. You actually sleep over at RED?

Now THAT sounds like a goad.

Jesper Holmström

08-05-2007, 02:53 PM

My mistake... from the actual post, you can see we are not getting much sleep.

Here is the list for today:

4K REDCODE RAW @ 1-60 fps to RAW Port
4K REDCODE RAW @ 1-24 fps to Compact Flash or RED Drive

2K REDCODE RAW scaled @ 1-60 fps to Compact Flash or RED Drive (Under development)
2K REDCODE RAW cropped @ 1-100 fps to Compact Flash or RED Drive

Don... my recommendation is that you rent something else.

Jim

Please, for all of us europeans try to squese in 25 fps 4K RC RAW!

Jesper Holmström
Dagsljus Filmequipment

Jaime Vallés

08-05-2007, 02:58 PM

This is excellent news! A "custom" RED firmware depending on your personal/business needs. I don't need 720p or 1080p if 2K scaled @ 60p to CF card is possible, but I'm glad that the option might be available for other users who do need it.

Very smart move.

Don King

08-05-2007, 03:07 PM

Don doesn't seem like he really cares about renting, buying or whatever. He just wants to take a dig at Red, I think.

You think wrong. Your in your own. It's sunday but I just have time to play with my kids. End of story.

Christian Berg

08-05-2007, 03:12 PM

Jim, could you make a computer application where we can make all the settings in advance? Then upload them via SD card or USB to the camera. This could be a feature in redcine. Then we could work out different settings for different work and not using the camera for all the setup. EVF viewings, outputs, audio, preview curves and everything else. Easier to work in a computer and we can get curve settings from previous takes in redcine to add into the camera for the preview output.
Great job by the way. Amazing!
/Christian

Don King

08-05-2007, 03:14 PM

Mr. Jannard,

I'm not sure if I well understood your last answer.

But it seems 2K REDCODE RAW scaled @ 1-60 fps to Compact Flash or RED Drive is under development, so you can't know where it will be available, right?

But will 2K REDCODE RAW cropped @ 1-100 fps to Compact Flash or RED Drive be available during 4Q, right?

I'm used to buy 2/3" gear where the AUDIO is a feature. However as I said, I'll begin to rent at and as first glance. May I have this feature with my rental camera?

My mistake... from the actual post, you can see we are not getting much sleep.

Here is the list for today:

4K REDCODE RAW @ 1-60 fps to RAW Port
4K REDCODE RAW @ 1-24 fps to Compact Flash or RED Drive

2K REDCODE RAW scaled @ 1-60 fps to Compact Flash or RED Drive (Under development)
2K REDCODE RAW cropped @ 1-100 fps to Compact Flash or RED Drive

Don... my recommendation is that you rent something else.

Jim

Jannard

08-05-2007, 03:20 PM

Mr. Jannard,

I'm not sure if I well understood your last answer.

But it seems 2K REDCODE RAW scaled @ 1-60 fps to Compact Flash or RED Drive is under development, so you can't know where it will be available, right?

But will 2K REDCODE RAW cropped @ 1-100 fps to Compact Flash or RED Drive be available during 4Q, right?

I'm used to buy 2/3" gear where the AUDIO is a feature. However, as I said, I'll begin to rent at and as first glance. May I have this feature with my rental camera?

Don... With all due respect I'm not sure you have been reading all the posts but I strongly urge you to rent another camera for your project. If you have more questions, the answers are in the posts from the past three days.

Jim

Don King

08-05-2007, 03:29 PM

Michael Moreno

08-05-2007, 03:45 PM

only in america would don king talk back to rocky

and i think we all remember rocky uppercutting lucius sweet onto that hood

all in favor to have don king removed from the forum say "only in america":weight_lift:

Best Jim Quote ever.
"Some people are going to analyze the shit out of the RED ONE and some are just going to shoot some great stuff.

Jim"

SF Geek

08-05-2007, 03:56 PM

Don, the issue I think you're missing here is that Red is doing things that haven't been done yet. Thus it is safe to say that it is very difficult to forcast any timeline. It's not just about time and labor. It's also about working out bugs and unforseen issues. If Red is ready in time for your production, then rent it. Listen to Jim when he says don't make specific time plans. He's not saying that to be coy.

As of now, the first Reds will ship with 4K Redcode Raw up to 24fps. I'm not sure what framerate you'll be able to get up to with 2k windowed Redcode Raw, but it should also be available. As for recording formats, there will be Red drive, Red Ram, and compact flash. Anything other than that will come at an unspecified later date.

Jannard

08-05-2007, 04:02 PM

SF... you are correct, but it is even a bit more complicated than that. We are now looking at reworking the architecture to accommodate the future of two builds. It might put us back a few weeks on the initial feature set. It shouldn't hold up the 1st release, but what was going to be in that release might change. I won't know exactly until we sit down tomorrow and lay it out. Good news is long term most will get what they want. Bad news is a lot more work on the front end for us right now at "Crunch Time".

Jim

Don King

08-05-2007, 04:08 PM

I understand. I'm just asking. Audio...and if there's any idea on recording modes in any way other than as 24 fps.

In Europe, we're working with 25 fps.

Dale Launer

08-05-2007, 04:10 PM

Something I don't understand. Please tell me what I'm missing, but why not capture in 4k, and have a far, far more valuable legacy format for your archives. Cut in ProRex, output 4k as your master. Then do a down rez from there. I mean, the only reason I can see why anyone would give a shit about 1080p is if they've invested in lenses or they prefer the generous depth of field. It just makes MUCH MORE SENSE to have 4k. Whatever you're shooting, music videos, documenary, theatrical - pretend you shot in in 35mm, but you're delivering whatever is needed. It adds value to work.

Dale Launer

08-05-2007, 04:10 PM

Or is it all about slow motion?

Häakon

08-05-2007, 04:13 PM

Häakon

08-05-2007, 04:16 PM

The only reason I can see why anyone would give a shit about 1080p is if they've invested in lenses or they prefer the generous depth of field.
Scaled 4K gives you no more DOF than shooting 4K does. Most of us like a scaled option because it offers higher framerates. I prefer scaled 1080 to scaled 2K because it provides a sharper finished picture in 1080. I don't think many people will be finishing to 2K, and either one will look the same cut back into a 4K timeline.

It's not "all about slow motion," but that is my main motivation for wanting a scaled option.

Neil Duffy

08-05-2007, 04:23 PM

Jim,

Thanks for the update. Personally, my issues are the frame rate at 4K redcode raw and a way to do quick and easy edits on the road (travel footage). Either case, good luck with your launch.

Neil
# 529, 530 and some lenses

Jaime Vallés

08-05-2007, 04:23 PM

Or is it all about slow motion?
Bingo. If 4K @ 60p to CF cards were available, this discussion wouldn't exist (at least not for me). I'll shoot everything 4K to CF cards, except for the slo-mo shots, which will hopefully be 2K 60p.

Jannard

08-05-2007, 04:33 PM

Alexander Nikishin

08-05-2007, 04:37 PM

4K REDCODE RAW @ 1-60 fps to RAW Port
4K REDCODE RAW @ 1-24 fps to Compact Flash or RED Drive

2K REDCODE RAW scaled @ 1-60 fps to Compact Flash or RED Drive (Under development)
2K REDCODE RAW cropped @ 1-100 fps to Compact Flash or RED Drive

Just what the doctor ordered, thank you Jim! :wink:

jaadgy akanni

08-05-2007, 04:38 PM

Bingo. If 4K @ 60p to CF cards were available, this discussion wouldn't exist (at least not for me). I'll shoot everything 4K to CF cards, except for the slo-mo shots, which will hopefully be 2K 60p.

I call 60p overcrank the poor man's slo-mo. I won't be satisfied with less than 100fps (if not 120fps)

vidalsosa

08-05-2007, 04:41 PM

Thank you for the answer, anyway. I'll check it. My only doubt is your "subject to change" policy which can change everything. Actually, we'll have our own 2/3" gear there. I'd just like to have yours where I can test the digital 35 mm capture and confirm my interest on my order.

I think you're bluffing. You don't sound like you have a clue what you're looking for. Wait for the camera to be available then you "can test the digital 35 mm capture and confirm my interest on my order" until then, let us have a civillized conversation here, where people ask valid questions.

Joe Aurili

08-05-2007, 04:42 PM

I hope audio is planned to be enabled soon. Maybe second batch? There is some work I can do without the audio, but there is little chance of me recording audio with an external device and syncing.

Alexander Nikishin

08-05-2007, 04:43 PM

I call 60p overcrank the poor man's slo-mo. I won't be satisfied with less than 100fps (if not 120fps)

Exactly, hence my fight for 2K windowed!

I made alot of enemies because of how improtant I think 2K @100 fps is, but I don't need 1080P, I'm not doing the 7 o'clock news and I never will! :sorcerer:

Jaime Vallés

08-05-2007, 04:44 PM

I call 60p overcrank the poor man's slo-mo. I won't be satisfied with less than 100fps (if not 120fps)
True enough! But beggars can't be choosers. 60p is enough slo-mo for my needs in the immediate future. Maybe in a few years I'll require 1000fps for the sci-fi epic, but by then RED-TWO will exist, and it'll not only do super-overcranking, but it'll do it in 3D!!!! :shiftyph34r:

Daniel Reichenbach

08-05-2007, 05:06 PM

Exactly, hence my fight for 2K windowed!

I made alot of enemies because of how improtant I think 2K @100 fps is, but I don't need 1080P, I'm not doing the 7 o'clock news and I never will! :sorcerer:

Absolutely agree. I will shoot 95% 4K, why shouldn't I?

Don King

08-05-2007, 05:23 PM

I think you're bluffing. You don't sound like you have a clue what you're looking for. Wait for the camera to be available then you "can test the digital 35 mm capture and confirm my interest on my order" until then, let us have a civillized conversation here, where people ask valid questions.

Get a life k... These your posts are simply ridiculous. The more you post the more they are. You know nothing about my needs. Respect for others needs. I don't give a damn about you think or about who you are. Did I ask you something?

C'mon, give me a break! Didn't your mother teach you to keep your nose in your own affairs? You're getting what you've asked for.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=65669&postcount=47

You think wrong. Your in your own. It's sunday but I just have time to play with my kids. End of story.

Is it enough? Now I asked.