Board manners...

[Jannard]

I am not the Board Police. All I can tell you is that when topics are discussed passionately, it gets my attention. Many things have been changed on the camera through spirited discussion. But when I see it become personal, I switch off reading the board. Which really doesn't benefit anyone. Everyone gets frustrated sometimes on this board but we all want the same thing...

Jim

[Steven Parker]

Agreed, Jim.

But you gotta admit, the cinematography.com forums make this board look like church on Sunday!

[Steve Sherrick]

Jim,

That's why I posted what I did here.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3549&page=3

It just doesn't make sense to turn this into a personal thing. People are passionate about this camera, there is such great potential here. But crossing over the line and attacking people just seems counterproductive and we have seen that a lot lately. I find it tough to read some of the threads when they get nasty.

Steve

[Shawn Nelson]

An ancient Proverb says "Where there is no ox the manger is clean", meaning that if you aren't getting anything done then there's no shit to deal with.

So a certain amount of crap is a natural by-product of hearty discussion. Though there is a balance and we do want a clean barn to work in :-)

[Ace]

Courtesy of DVXuser guidelines:

"Respect your fellow filmmakers -- Regardless of age, experience, or opinion, you should always show respect to fellow users. Personal insults of any sort are not tolerated. If you feel another user’s post is inappropriate, please report the post or contact a moderator. Participating in a flame war is uncool even if someone else started it—and just like mom and dad, we’ll give you both timeouts. Be slow to give offense and slow to take offense—a lot of disputes are just plain misunderstanding or miscommunication. This is a worldwide community, and English is not the native tongue of some of our members. Please exercise patience and extend the benefit of the doubt to those who are taking the effort to communicate in English just to participate with us."

[Steve Sherrick]

Not to get too pragmatic here, but it just seems like at times people may say things on boards like these that I find hard to believe they would ever say to someone in person. I have seen this happen with email as well, where things are misinterpreted and that can lead to things getting out of hand. I suppose what's missing here is body language, tone, etc. And language differences can play a role.

But at the end of the day, it does come down to respect. We need to respect everyone at Red, the people that run this board, and each other. I think if we do that, everything else will be fine. People can debate until the cows come home, but know that after the debate, they'd be just as happy to go grab a beer.

Steve

[Desert Rune]

If you see a post that gets personal, use the Report Post button. http://www.reduser.net/forum/images/style/buttons/report.gif

I'm not on this board long enough to know the temperament of the mods but it would be helpful to flag posts that get personal, and disruptive. It's best to delete those posts or temporarily ban those members rather than lock an entire thread because of a few troublemakers.

[Gavin Greenwalt]

I was reading another topic when this went up... this probably would have been the better place to post it but it could be summarized as:

I would like to remind everyone that calling someone a "troll" accusing them of underhanded dealings or attacking someone for what they posted before giving them a chance to take a breath and explain themselves is just another form personal attack because you are attacking some one's integrity.

Let's give people the benefit of doubt and not assume everybody is out to "get Jim and RED." He's a big boy and I've seen he can definitely take care of himself. ;)

Let's all pretend everybody is here on the best of intentions. I know I've been guilty of making some assumptions myself and I apologize but sometimes I think this board does earn a bit of its reputation for insecurity and belligerence.

2c

[Jannard]

I don't think there are diliberate troublemakers here... I just think that it is easy to get caught up in the heat of the moment and "let 'er fly". Just take a breath before getting too personal or retaliating when you think someone is "pushing your buttons".

Jim

[David Battistella]

I don't think there are diliberate troublemakers here... I just think that it is easy to get caught up in the heat of the moment and "let 'er fly". Just take a breath before getting too personal or retaliating when you think someone is "pushing your buttons".

Jim

Great advice.

I have a motorcycle and I have been on rides with guys that drive to fast. It's very easy to turn your wrist a bit more and push it to keep up. Throw some testosterone into the mix and all of a sudden you look down and see a number on the speedometer that surprises you.

I tell all of my friends the same thing. It's just as easy to turn your wrist the other way, lay off the throttle and enjoy the ride. It doesn't mean you're not getting anywhere.

David

[jaadgy akanni]

oops double posted, sorry.

[jaadgy akanni]

I don't think there are diliberate troublemakers here... I just think that it is easy to get caught up in the heat of the moment and "let 'er fly". Just take a breath before getting too personal or retaliating when you think someone is "pushing your buttons".

Jim

There are those occasions when for some reason, people feel like they're being alluded to. Jim is right in that one should exercise the proper restraint and not take things personally. I myself have had fellow board members misinterpret things I've said. Sometimes the style in which you write down your opinion might convey a certain unintended mood or tone. So perhaps, a bit of proofreading is in order next time we post.

[Daniel Reichenbach]

I am not the Board Police. All I can tell you is that when topics are discussed passionately, it gets my attention. Many things have been changed on the camera through spirited discussion. But when I see it become personal, I switch off reading the board. Which really doesn't benefit anyone. Everyone gets frustrated sometimes on this board but we all want the same thing...

Jim

Zazen-Jim got the right spirit. I was a bit shocked about the sound on this board a few hours ago. So I went to bed. Now the sun is coming up again shubishubiduuuuuu.

[Alexander Nikishin]

It's been a battlefield of insults as of late, that's how damn important this camera is to everyone, that's a powerful thing! :ninja:

[Finner]

I take off for a few weeks and some people decide to try and take my job of being the hard ass dick on here?????

Well I'm back now so stop it.

[Daniel Reichenbach]

hehehe, Finner, you mean Huckley Berry Finner?

[SF Geek]

Oh you've missed out baby. Let me tell you.

[Mardi_Gras]

Like my granny used to say - just stay out of trouble. Don't go out making blanket statements like, "he looks as beatable as ever". You do this at the risk of being given an 8 stroke whooping and pretty much left, speechless. A word is enough for the wise.

[Brook Willard]

Thanks, Jim.

[Don King]

I second the moderator's tone. Thanks for your post, Mr. Jannard.

[number6]

Like my granny used to say - just stay out of trouble. Don't go out making blanket statements like, "he looks as beatable as ever". You do this at the risk of being given an 8 stroke whooping and pretty much left, speechless. A word is enough for the wise.

And like the announcer said (Fehrety I think) "He is as beatable as ever, which is practically never"

[Mardi_Gras]

And like the announcer said (Fehrety I think) "He is as beatable as ever, which is practically never"

There you go. I rest my case.

[I Bloom]

Despite any drama, I've actually been very encouraged by the past week of debate. I think its important to note
WE HAVE MADE PROGRESS!!:biggrin:
I've seen a lot of people, including myself, be persuaded away from their original point of view. We have a new format in the works that I believe to be a great compromise and perhaps better than what we had before. The RED guys have options, they have a better map of how they might proceed and that's extremely valuable.

Overall the outcome of all these threads shows that this is a very functional passionate community able to recognize problems and come up with solutions.

I'm glad to have witnessed it.

IBloom

[Mr. Paul White]

The point is not to debate, it's debate-able with manners and out of personal issues. I second it.

[Shawn Bannon]

:usd: ive come to the realization that playing online role playing games like WoW and posting on this forum has ruined the lives of many of my friends. I'm afraid when they get their cameras they may end up not using them. boo hoo...:clown2:

we'll probably start a small group in Los Angeles to help people recover... so far we have been prescribing medical marijuana, but we've realized instead of chilling people out its gotten them more addicted to these online communities.

p.s. im not just the founder of this rehab program i'm also a member

[Jared VanLeuven]

Dangit, you just ruined my secret business model of selling 4k WoW screengrabs...

:)

[luis bustamante]

perhaps it would be good to have a system in which users could rate +/- all posts, so if a post has only negative votes, it could be set to be hidden in the pref. pane. Something like digg. That could be a way to eliminate "noise" in the forum.

[Gavin Greenwalt]

perhaps it would be good to have a system in which users could rate +/- all posts, so if a post has only negative votes, it could be set to be hidden in the pref. pane. Something like digg. That could be a way to eliminate "noise" in the forum.

And generate a lot of confusion if a post such as this one just pops up out the blue if it doesn't have the attached quotation.

[Poi Boy]

I think we should have a weekly rude poster death match,in 4k naturally and if there is no new info on the site that week we'll still have some excitement.
-A

[Andrew Benz]

I think we should have a weekly rude poster death match,in 4k naturally and if there is no new info on the site that week we'll still have some excitement.
-A
I am in... I have been looking at applying some post military skillsets :devil: :shiftyph34r: :biggrin:j/k of course...

BTW I hope that you are doing well Poi Boy...

[luis bustamante]

And generate a lot of confusion if a post such as this one just pops up out the blue if it doesn't have the attached quotation.

yeah, you're right, it was just an idea. It wouldn't confuse me though!

The best,

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Haha. See but I confused myself! It took a second to remember what exactly my post was about. I suppose some of us just are more easily confused than others. :D

[Brook Willard]

I'm confused.

[Jeremy Hughes]

I'm confused about every post on this thread past Jim's.

[The Studio Corp]

This is my second post in a year... it seems that if some of the people here on the red user group spent their time building their business to use RED when it comes out rather than treating this like an AOL chat session, a few things would change,, #1... most threads would be of value... #2...they might be better prepared for the business of actually selling their services and #3.... most importantly....... I would not have to wade through all of this junk every day to get through to the valuable opinions and thoughts that so many of you have..... We all want the interaction between RED inc and this user group... don't screw it up with dribble....

[Antoine Fabi]

I agree we spend way too much time on this board (and others).

...but it is an exellent therapy to calm down the anxiety waiting of the camera. AND RED is encouraging us a lot to spend our 5 min/day here by posting new teasers/news almost every day.

Aren't Jim's own words : "this board is too calm ?..." he hee...

...and this board is an exellent source of technical info.

[Rick Darge]

This is my second post in a year... it seems that if some of the people here on the red user group spent their time building their business to use RED when it comes out rather than treating this like an AOL chat session, a few things would change,, #1... most threads would be of value... #2...they might be better prepared for the business of actually selling their services and #3.... most importantly....... I would not have to wade through all of this junk every day to get through to the valuable opinions and thoughts that so many of you have..... We all want the interaction between RED inc and this user group... don't screw it up with dribble....

I just had to wade through your junk. Thanks a lot...


:bleh:

[The Studio Corp]

good point........

[Shawn Nelson]

Can't we all just get along? :-)

[Steve Sherrick]

Can I officially announce the clean slate, please, please...

I'm sending lots of positive vibes through the Red community...It's getting warm and fuzzy again...

Ah.....

A Beautiful thing....

Steve

[Sean]

The lack of basic civility and courtesy on boards, in general, is shocking to me. Reduser is extremely professional and courteous in comparison to most...though I see some bad habits crop up here too. Which just makes me wonder: whatever it is that makes people become insensitive animals on web message boards, is it revealing their true character? I mean, is that what people are really like and they just feel comfortable behind the safety of an internet connection to be their nasty selves? Or are they otherwise decent, polite, generous folks who just don't realize how mean their posts get.

[Steve Sherrick]

Postive Vibes....

[Morning Glory]

a guy I once knew.

[redhector]

Can I officially announce the clean slate, please, please...

I'm sending lots of positive vibes through the Red community...It's getting warm and fuzzy again...

Ah.....

A Beautiful thing....

Steve



I'm agree, please, please continue I love to read all the updates, the technical info... is like I'm watching a Movie that for sure is going to have a happy ending.:w00t:

[Jonathan L. Bowen]

Wow I've not even been posting and there have been heated arguments? That's funny. ;)

haha, j/k. For the most part people on this forum are very professional compared to other forums where I have posted, but it's easy for things to get out of hand, especially from just simple misunderstandings.

[mezmo]

I don't think there are diliberate troublemakers here... I just think that it is easy to get caught up in the heat of the moment and "let 'er fly". Just take a breath before getting too personal or retaliating when you think someone is "pushing your buttons".

Jim
I gotta say Jim without a doubt you are the biggest "Button Pusher" I can see on this board,
With posts like "720/1080p......losers" quote "I think recording these formats
is a waste of time" end quote.
I happen to agree with you on this but don't give the kids so much Red Candy
if you want to see "good manners".
Just a friendly suggestion from another 57 year old. Cheers Mezmo.

[Sean]

I gotta say Jim without a doubt you are the biggest "Button Pusher" I can see on this board,
With posts like "720/1080p......losers" quote "I think recording these formats
is a waste of time" end quote.
I happen to agree with you on this but don't give the kids so much Red Candy
if you want to see "good manners".
Just a friendly suggestion from another 57 year old. Cheers Mezmo.

Sometimes it's appropriate to stand up for yourself and what you believe in. And I think there's a difference between making a comment about a video format and making a comment that attacks another person. I don't feel very protective of the feelings or civil rights of a codec.

[Blair S. Paulsen]

I don't feel very protective of the feelings or civil rights of a codec.

I wonder if a codec can get an ACLU membership? :holloween:

[ChristopherKenworthy]

It might be worth saying that even those of us with the best intentions, from time to time, post something full of heat. We are emotional. Red is emotional. The most Vulcan-like posters sometimes resort to slanging matches. For myself, I register that whenever I'm about to attack somebody, they probably have a point. So, whenever anybody annoys me, I try to listen to what they're really saying. Not easy, but worth the effort. The posts that annoyed me the most, taught me the most. But when it gets personal for the sake of getting personal, I stop reading.

[Emanuel A.]

What's this?!... :umm: What I have been losing these holiday-days during the silly season... :sarcasm:

[Emmanuel Cambier]

I gotta say Jim without a doubt you are the biggest "Button Pusher" I can see on this board,
With posts like "720/1080p......losers" quote "I think recording these formats
is a waste of time" end quote.
I happen to agree with you on this but don't give the kids so much Red Candy
if you want to see "good manners".
Just a friendly suggestion from another 57 year old. Cheers Mezmo.

I'm with you on this one Mezmo.
No offence Jim, you're my man and I thank You for being the way you are, don't change a thing for me, please.
But I got to say that this whole format thing lacked a bit of preparation, I'm sure you will agree.
The nice thing is that I am certain that great things will come out of all this confused week.

Love you all

Emmanuel:love:

[Desert Rune]

To Memzo and Emmanuel Cambier,

I can't disagree more. The whole point of this thread is when heated debates get personal. Jim pushes buttons (he's pushing the entire industry's buttons -- not a bad thing, IMO), but he hasn't slung personal insults or attacked anyone.

So if you two care to read a little closer, then I think you've missed the point of this thread.

[Brook Willard]

The personal issues that caused the problems we've had over the last few days had nothing to do with Jim's phrasing. The problems appeared much later in the discussion between a handful of members. Other members reacted to these problems and several threads went to shit. Jim's posts may have caused some passionate reactions, but they did not cause the issues that we're talking about here.

As far as I'm concerned, all hatchets are buried at this point and we're all back to normal. I'm going to lock this thread not because I find it inappropriate in any way - far from it. I just think that the point has been made and the best thing to do is to sigh a collective "bygones" and move on.