Red for home use?

[John Dobbs]

I would like to buy a red for home use. What would be a good starter package to use? And what software is needed for this? It would be for non professional use. When will I be able to buy one? Will it be available by this december?

I was thinking of the 28-50 lens kit at f2.8 but I am not sure of what else is included with the camera when you buy it.

[Mark L. Pederson]

John - I like your style. High-end professional gear for "in home" use.

Most of the info and answers you are looking for are on RED.com or on this forum. I know you can order a camera now by putting down a 10% deposit, but you will not get your camera until early 2008.

You will get REDCINE software with the camera, as well as some utility apps (REDQUICK, etc.) and you should get a MacPro and Final Cut Studio.

Spend a little time on the RED.com site and then search this site for answers to questions -

Your home movies are going to look amazing ...

[Nils Ruinet]

For $17500 you'll get only the camera body.
To make it work, you'll need at least to buy :
- Basic production pack ($1250)
- EVF ($2950) or LCD ($1700)
- Power pack ($1450)
- Red Drive ($900)
- a lens, like the 28-50mm ($6500) and/or an adapter for Nikon or Canon lenses ($500)
So it's about $30000 with the 18-50 lens.
And this is without any accessories, tripod, cases,...

If you order now, you won't be getting it before somewhere in 2008.

I don't know what you exactly mean by "home use", but isn't this camera a bit expensive for that ? And are you sure you really need 4K ?
Well it's your money :unsure:

[Brook Willard]

Slinnn, you don't need to buy all of those things to "make it work". The bare minimum would be the camera body, a lens, a battery, some type of storage and something to view it with [even if it's just an HDMI monitor].

[John Dobbs]

Cool I have a Mac Pro at home, it has 8GB of ram on it.

So I just need to buy Final Cut pro software and then install the RED software on the mac.

Thanks for the list, thats what I needed. but 2008 what? like around January ?Is that when it will be officially for sale? Will I be able to just buy it on www.red.com (online store) when it is out.

[John Dobbs]

For $17500 you'll get only the camera body.
To make it work, you'll need at least to buy :
- Basic production pack ($1250)
- EVF ($2950) or LCD ($1700)
- Power pack ($1450)
- Red Drive ($900)
- a lens, like the 28-50mm ($6500) and/or an adapter for Nikon or Canon lenses ($500)
So it's about $30000 with the 18-50 lens.
And this is without any accessories, tripod, cases,...

If you order now, you won't be getting it before somewhere in 2008.

I don't know what you exactly mean by "home use", but isn't this camera a bit expensive for that ? And are you sure you really need 4K ?
Well it's your money :unsure:

Why not? I saw the quality of the footage at the website and that beats the hell out of anything DV camera I have seen. It would be great to film family events etc.. and have it look that way compared to what people show at home shot on those DV cameras.

[Gavin Greenwalt]

You'll also miss every family event because you'll be so busy trying to pull focus instead of being there and enjoying the experience.

[Brook Willard]

It's already "for sale," it's just not shipping. My personal [completely unjustified] guess is that ~2,000-2,500 have been ordered. When the camera starts shipping [theoretically in about a month], the people who reserved a camera first will start to get theirs. Over the next several months, cameras will ship out and production will ramp up:

Serial numbers 1-50 August 30th (50 units)
Serial numbers 51-100 September 15th (50 units)
Serial numbers 101-300 October 10th (200 units)
Serial numbers 301- 700 November 10th (400 units)
Serial numbers 701- 1200 December 10th (500 units)
Serial numbers 1201- 1700 January 10th (500 units)
Serial numbers 1701- 2200 February 10th (500 units)
Serial numbers 2201- 2700 March 10th (500 units)
Serial numbers 2701- 3400 April 10th (700 units)
Serial numbers 3401- 4100 May 10th (700 units)

Granted, this schedule could change at any time. But I'd guess you'd receive a camera around March if you ordered today.

If you're going to order, do it soon. With the cameras about to ship [public footage will be coming...] and IBC around the corner, there are going to be a LOT of orders about to be made.

[Brook Willard]

Why not? I saw the quality of the footage at the website and that beats the hell out of anything DV camera I have seen. It would be great to film family events etc.. and have it look that way compared to what people show at home shot on those DV cameras.

You're worrying me a little here... do you know what's involved in using a camera like this? There's a reason that professional narrative cine camera departments often have 5+ people... with certain members capable of earning more than $1,000 per day.

Check out the FAQ if you haven't.

[Nils Ruinet]

Slinnn, you don't need to buy all of those things to "make it work". The bare minimum would be the camera body, a lens, a battery, some type of storage and something to view it with [even if it's just an HDMI monitor].

Ok, so let's say
- Body : $17000
- 1 battery + charger : $1000
- Red Drive : $900 (you could go with CF,but I'm not sure it would be cheaper)
- HDMI monitor : I have no idea, I guess about $1000. But I would really at least take the Red LCD.
- Nikon or Canon adapter : $500

So that's around $20 000 without any lens, so this works if you already have existing Canon or Nikon lenses (or want to buy some). Still not cheap...


Thanks for the list, thats what I needed. but 2008 what? like around January ?Is that when it will be officially for sale? Will I be able to just buy it here (online store) when it is out.
Nobody know exactly, there is a big waiting list, more than 2000 people have already ordered the camera. If everything goes as planed, they'll start shipping in september. Ordering now, you may get it around March or April 2008 I guess, but nobody can tell at this point...


Why not? I saw the quality of the footage at the website and that beats the hell out of anything DV camera I have seen. It would be great to film family events etc.. and have it look that way compared to what people show at home shot on those DV cameras.
Yes, why not... I don't know your background, but are you familiar with this kind of high end gear ? It's much more complicated than a DV camera... Manual focus, etc... Just making sure you're aware of that... Focusing on a 35mm camera is far from easy...

[I Bloom]

I don't know. If he's got the money to burn than I would encourage him to try it out, I can think of worse hobbies. I've been shooting about 2 hours of HD footage every time I get together with my extended family, especially the little ones, I'll probably do some of this with RED too.

IBloom

[Jason Francois]

I'm the first to say that people should do whatever they want, but I can't imagine lugging around a 15-25lb. set up to shoot pics of my kids. They just move too fast. :)

That said, I'm sure there will be some 4k family footage, but as the exception and not the rule.

John, get that back and biceps in shape and join the REDvolution. :)

[Justin O'Neill]

The first thing I point out about the RED camera to people asking about recreational use is that THERE IS NO AUTOFOCUS.

Or auto iris for that matter.

[Gavin Greenwalt]

I wouldn't even point out NO AUTOFOCUS first. Because with 1/3" you can often just be out of focus without too many problems.

But with a 35mm chip. You *have* to work to stay in focus. Especially in doors with available light you'll want to run it wide open.

[John Dobbs]

Thanks for the info and I am gonna read the FAQ now, I will practice with it of course. The pictures that came out of my first cameras were no where near the level they are today. I have been shooting pictures with my 1Ds camera and it blows away the stuff I had with my older point and shoot stuff. I had to practice for a while obviously since initally the pictures from the DSLR were not up to par until I got the hang of it.

I would figure this would make for a good hobby, and besides people blow 24K on harleys to ride them on the road, at least my wife does not have to be worried about myself getting killed on a bike.

[Tonaci Tran]

as mentioned earlier by other redusers, you will be lookin at needing a tripod that can handle RED's weight. expect to pay around 5 grand for something like an oconnor 1030hd. I think the tripod on Red's website is the 2060hd and it goes for around 8,000.

[redhead]

John, you may also consider getting something like Interactive Film School (http://www.studio1productions.com/interactive-film-school.htm), a set of 5 instructional DVDs about the basics of filmmaking. That can help you bring your hobby to a higher level.

[Bokes]

I keep reading about how difficult focus will be on RED- It's bumming me out. Is it really going to be so impossible? I have never used a 35mm motion picture camera, but I have used a Beta SP and arri 16mm- both manual zooms. Not easy, but I did not find it that hard. Will RED really be that much more difficult?

[Desert Rune]

I don't know what you exactly mean by "home use"...I have a fairly good idea. :blush:

While it's preferable you want to make money with it, I don't see why it can't be used for "home use". I remember shooting birthday parties with a professional shoulder mount camera I borrowed from my school's video department.

Is this a case of big toys for rich boys?

[Stokestack]

I, for one, look forward to seeing Red-originated footage of your cat flushing the crapper on YouTube.

[Joe Aurili]

I'm worried about the focus also as I will be doing myself. Hope that magic focus assist is REAL good :)

[Häakon]

I keep reading about how difficult focus will be on RED- It's bumming me out. Is it really going to be so impossible? I have never used a 35mm motion picture camera, but I have used a Beta SP and arri 16mm- both manual zooms. Not easy, but I did not find it that hard. Will RED really be that much more difficult?

It won't be impossible, no, but as Brook pointed out there is a reason why most cine camera departments have several people involved.

There are ways to "help" yourself maximize the depth of field to make focusing easier. First, you can shoot in the "windowed" mode with 16mm lenses - right off the bat you will increase the range pretty dramatically. You can also choose to shoot as wide and as closed down on the lens as possible (higher f-stop numbers), as this will also expand your range. In bright, sunny days, you will probably have to stop down anyway - so instead of throwing an ND on the camera, just close down the lens. A final solution is to shoot at higher ISOs; this will ensure the camera does not need as much light to be passed through the lens and again you can close down some. Of course shooting at higher ISOs (more sensor noise) or in windowed mode (cropping off lots of resolution) means you're not getting maximum quality out of the camera, but it may help to "train" the uninitiated user before requiring they jump in the deep end. We know that RED ONE is pretty elastic when it comes to pushing the ISO, and even at 2K images should be very nice. (It's still higher resolution than any HD format after all!) As one gets more comfortable shooting windowed, they can move up to shooting in full 4K - just be aware that this will most likely require purchase of a different lens.

With all of that in mind, I do think that RED will be a wake up call for many users - especially those who have never shot with a 35mm system before. Jim has been warning about it for months. At the very least, you'd be doing yourself a favor to rent an M2 for the day and see what it's like shooting at various f-stops with some Nikon or Canon glass. If someone is sitting down (like in an interview setting) and the camera is locked off, it's easy - just use your various focus assist methods, dial in pristine focus, and start rolling. But as soon as either the camera or the subject (or both!) is in motion, get ready for some fun. And he's talking about shooting kids? Oh boy. :)

That being said, I honestly don't believe it's our business to tell anyone what they should or shouldn't do with their money, or more importantly, who this camera should or should not be used by. I like the original poster's spirit, and I'm assuming (hoping!) that if he's about to spend $20,000 on a camera, he's doing the research first. He did say that he is used to shooting images with a dSLR, so that's a start (he'll be more familiar with a lot of the manual terms and functions of RED). But rarely are you moving your camera around when you're shooting stills and that adds a totally different dimension to the experience. I do really like his Harley analogy though, and I say why not? The best way to learn is to just get in the trenches and do it. RED is certainly a major (r)evolution in digital camera design, and I know I'm excited. Good luck John. :-)

[Proteus]

I have been shooting pictures with my 1Ds camera and it blows away the stuff I had with my older point and shoot stuff. I had to practice for a while obviously since initally the pictures from the DSLR were not up to par until I got the hang of it.

RED is 1.6 times easier to focus (less shallow depth of field) than a 35mm still camera like the Canon EOS-1Ds you mentioned.

[Nils Ruinet]

RED is 1.6 times easier to focus (less shallow depth of field) than a 35mm still camera like the Canon EOS-1Ds you mentioned.

Yes, except the 1Ds has autofocus. The Red hasn't... :tongue:

[Proteus]

Yes, except the 1Ds has autofocus. The Red hasn't... :tongue:

I meant in manual mode of course... except if its difficult fo focus in auto with 1Ds :)

Anyway, I see it coming from a third party as an add-on... (a motorized mechanism for a range of lenses with live signal input from RED or simply with a distance ultrasonic sensor...)

[androbot2084]

I think Red is developing a profesional grade pocket camera that would be more suitable for home use. I don't know if this new camera is capable of 4k however the theory of putting advanced technology in the hands of the consumer is that if millions of units are produced then economies of scale start kicking in resulting in drastic price reductions that end up benefiting professionals.

[Proteus]

Yes, but drastic price reductions are followed by advances in technology which lead to more sophisticated devices which increase cost and so on...

EDIT: The Pocket Pro camera will be positioned differently so it most likely will be a good HD or 2K camera...

[number6]

John, were you maybe thinking about using RED for a security camera? If so, you may need more than one to cover all entrances.

pre-edit: just had a funny thought... what if someone were to break into your home to steal your security cameras! You would have great evidence footage!

[David Dennis]

Just to echo what Androbot said, I believe RED is developing a "pocket RED" which would be both smaller and be meant for news gathering applications, which means autofocus would most likely be available.

I think that for this style of work I would hold off until that version was available. Unfortunately I don't think RED has given us many details on it, and of course availability is likely to be far in the future.

Other than that compromise, there are 35mm lenses with built-in autofocus and image stabilization. He probably has one of those already for his 1Ds. Could it be possible to adapt one of those to use with the RED?

D

[Jannard]

This is a guy after my own heart...

Jim

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Interesting thread. I wonder how many RED reservation holders are intending to use it solely for home/hobby use. I have to admit that part of my interests in RED are hobby oriented, but still primarily professional. I will pull out RED to shoot some family and personal events. Just because I can and will do so in situations where I have the time and patience to get it set up properly and work with it. ...For everything else, I'll have my trusty Sony HDV handycam... Which totally sucks, but is still wonderful for chasing kids around the back yard.

A good analogy for buying RED for home movies and personal hobby use, is like buying a medium format still camera for every day use with the family. Sure, you could do it, but it's a lot of work and a lot of money spent and then you have to question what you're really getting out of it.

But RED for use as a hobby.... That makes sense to me. I know lots of people that put tens (even hundreds) of thousands of dollars into hobbies... Be it restoring cars, sculpting, RC cars or planes, flying real planes, etc.. $25K to even $75K isn't outlandish for an expensive hobby if someone is truly that interested and dedicated to it. ...So John, if this is what you want to do and it will make you happy and you have the means, go for it! If it turns out to be something you don't like after you have the camera, you probably won't have too much trouble re-selling it for a minimal loss.

Edit> I guess I could expand on the hobby expenditures even more -- thinking about it, I'm aware of people who spend several million $$ on their hobbies and passions, so by comparison, RED is cheap. :) A friend of mine has a passion for vintage aircraft and fighter jets. He belongs to a group that buys various aircraft and they work out time-share deals with their members. Their latest purchase is a retired USAF F-20 Tiger II trainer. They have an F-86 that I got to ride in a couple years ago. :w00t:

[Shawn Nelson]

This is one seriously stacked dude :-) gotta love it!

My wife is constantly getting on to me for having a stack of professional video gear but never busting it out to film my 7 month old son :-)

[number6]

This is one seriously stacked dude :-) gotta love it!

My wife is constantly getting on to me for having a stack of professional video gear but never busting it out to film my 7 month old son :-)

Shawn, set the kid on your lap when behind the camera and get him used to being there. THAT"S the business end.

[Ivan D. Young]

I really don't see a problem with someone getting a camera like this for home movies. I thought this was one small factor why the RED was developed in the first place. Too take the technology out there and put it in peoples hands, regardless of what they want to do. This is the great "scare" of this technology, anyone will be able to make 2K and 4K content, I say this is a good thing. Just wait, I would not be surprised once the initial orders are caught up and regular sales with camera equipment in stock, this camera will end up with the rich crowd. It will be one those items like, Ferraris, mansions, personal jets, yachts, and the like. We will probably see professional athletes with these cameras, just for the cool factor. When you let the genie out of the bottle these are predictable outcomes. And before anyone doubts this, sports teams will probably look at these cameras and then to the players.

[mdo]

Your home movies are going to look amazing ...

If the kid ever becomes a star, you'll make a fortune...

[Ace]

Probably one of the reasons this camera was conjured up in the first place.. do it. Photography and film making is a passion, a hobby. I see tons of amateur 35mm still photographers with expensive gear, this should be no different.

[Michael Mann]

I would like to buy a red for home use.
John, nice to know there are like-minded people out there.

[Jonathan L. Bowen]

The first thing I point out about the RED camera to people asking about recreational use is that THERE IS NO AUTOFOCUS.

Or auto iris for that matter.

Wait what? There's no autofocus? Forget it I'm canceling my order. haha, j/k.

The autofocus on most DV cams seems to suck pretty badly anyway, or at least I think so, even doing amateur work with it was often frustrating so I just figured it was better to focus it yourself. I loved it on the *first day* of film school we were told, "Please, please don't use the green square to film (auto-everything, basically). You are in film school now."

I can't imagine using the RED for home video footage, heck I can't even imagine using the RED for behind-the-scenes footage. I'd still probably just shoot with HDV or something for that, easier and cheaper.

[Brice Ansel]

Probably one of the reasons this camera was conjured up in the first place.. do it. Photography and film making is a passion, a hobby. I see tons of amateur 35mm still photographers with expensive gear, this should be no different.

In the 70s a lot of non professional wealthy people bought 16mm camera's to shoot their holydays.I bought a beaulieu to one of them 14 years ago, it took him more than 20 years to sold it! Even if their was a lot of out of focus in his holyday's movies..

[Martin Drew]

John

I intend to use mine to shoot the kids amongst other things. The RedOne probably won't make the ideal family camcorder (I can't see my wife using it) but if you are motivated by image quality rather than ease of use it seems to be an excellent choice. Personally I think it is a lot harder to get decent images with small DV and HDV cameras than with larger pro gear. Sure there is a little more hassle involved... but that is half the fun. Definitely factor the price of a decent tripod into your package.

Where are you based? If you are in Europe it would definitely be worth coming along to IBC next month to see the camera in the flesh.

M

[Michael Lindsay]

Initially confused by somebody's desire to use Red for home only use... I have straightened my thinking and think it a great idea... I was once encouraged a mate of mine to squirt of a mag on a XTR at 75fps of his kids playing.. That looked great and it was a whole different kind of memory the footage fostered..

He doesn't have to shoot 4k full chip for anything other than big scenic wides (focus easy)... If most other stuff is S16 crop with a bit of practise and aptitude he'll be fine... He can do wonderful TL and great (and very unusual for home video's) slowmo...

What is interesting is how, seeing themselves on media that is more cinema than homevideo, his younger families notions of themselves will be affected...

regards

Michael

[Peter McCully]

Why not film the things that are most important to you as well as the things you get paid for filming?
It's probably easier on the Red than for David Lean if he had decided to lug home the Panavision 65mm!

[Martin Drew]

Oh! and you will want a decent microphone + windshield + suspension.

M

[Proteus]

Imagine a poor professional who is shooting with a minimum equipped RED e.g a scene on the beach with untalented ugly actors, and just 50 meters away a rich amateur playing with a full equipped RED and a bunch of knock-out hot ladies posing and having fun! :)

Sorry, that was a black joke, but my intention was just to make you laugh -I hope!

[Lauri Kettunen]

John's idea to buy a RED for home use is not bad at all. Literally, is there anything more valuable than one's kids? If one has the money, why not?

Once the kids get old and they realize having 4K images of their childhood while their friends have only SD or perhaps HDV footages, the odds are high that the childhood clips are highly appreciated. Wouldn't we all feel like having a treasure, if such material existed from our own childhood?

To answer John original question, yes, the short lens 18-50mm is a good idea. Probably you want to be prepared for quick situations so the RED CF flash module is useful as well as a pair batteries to make sure you won't run out of power in any situation. Plugging to the electric network slows things down implying your family has to wait while you prepare the camera and that's not a good thing. I would also suggest the LCD. Likely, the basic production pack will cover all the needs you have at home. I would not bother with a tripod. For, in filming kids it will also slow down things. It's another matter if you film weddings or other family events.

[Proteus]

Wouldn't we all feel like having a treasure, if such material existed from our own childhood?

Definitely! It would be priceless!

But even someone who is not rich, could invest on RED for home use and get his investment back just by shooting nice "stock footage" in his spare time!
Quality-wise it would be perfect, what is needed is a little passion and a desire to learn!

[Martin Drew]

I would not bother with a tripod. For, in filming kids it will also slow down things.

You are right that there are many situations when a tripod would get in the way but there are also loads of occasions when it is essential. I have filmed my kids at the dining table, school plays, climbing trees, etc. etc. Anytime when they are reasonably static or predictable it is worth setting up the tripod.

M

[Harmonica]

I love it! If my dad were alive, he wouldn't have hesitated to buy a Red for doing home video as well. Recently I have been doing D5 transfers of a bunch of old 16mm footage that my grandparents took of my parents. There's no sound, but what I wouldn't give to trade the sound on some of the early VHS footage my dad took of my family for that kind of image quality! And any one who thinks that buying a Red for family use is a waste of a professional camera has got their priorities wrong. Family first! The Red is no Handycam, but you'll get it down eventually:wink: Best of luck John!

[Finner]

I just don't see it. A red will be complicated and much harder and slower to shoot with then a prosumer option. I will rarely shoot with my camera without a 1st assistant. Not just for focusing but to do all the work on the camera changing lenses and filters, downloading footage and just keeping the camera set up properly. Red is very much like a film camera and there are a lot of things to do just to keep the camera running. I have a RED comming in but if I was doing family memory shooting a dvx or hdv camera would be my choice and the red would sit on the shelf for that. A person will just miss far to much of the action trying to use a red for that style of shooting.

[Harmonica]

I just don't see it. A red will be complicated and much harder and slower to shoot with then a prosumer option. I will rarely shoot with my camera without a 1st assistant. Not just for focusing but to do all the work on the camera changing lenses and filters, downloading footage and just keeping the camera set up properly. Red is very much like a film camera and there are a lot of things to do just to keep the camera running. I have a RED comming in but if I was doing family memory shooting a dvx or hdv camera would be my choice and the red would sit on the shelf for that. A person will just miss far to much of the action trying to use a red for that style of shooting.

Don't forget that originally all home footage was done on film cameras. We've been spoiled by modern camcorders with their ease of use (and at the same time turned a blind eye to the unfortunate quality). I see your point about missing the action, which is why I too will stick with hdv for home video, but I also plan to use my Red for home video as often as is practical. There's nothing I'd rather see in 4k more than the people most important to me:blush:

[Finner]

Don't forget that originally all home footage was done on film cameras.

Don't forget we use to live in caves and eat raw meat.

Some things change for the good and as far as family shooting goes it is tough to tell when the "moment" will happen. So I choose the higher chance of capturing the moment over missing many moments but having better quality. Also there is a special quality about footage shot with camera technology of that time that will give the footage a period historic type look.

[Martin Drew]

Finner. It all depends what you want to achieve, I don't see RedOne as an alternative to a small camcorder, it's a different beast. I would still want to have a small camcorder for throw away family footage and capturing "moments" but I can see the value in having the ability to shoot top end footage too. It is the same in stills photography I like to use a DSLR with primes but it is great to have a little pocket camera too. If I had to chose between one or the other for family snaps I would probably have to go with the pocket camera but I would always curse the lack of quality and the lack of controllability, why not have both?

M

[Martin Drew]

Don't forget we use to live in caves and eat raw meat.

I never have

M

[Jason Murphy]

John

More power to you. I totally applaud the use of RED for home movies. Well made home movies seem to be a lost art (it seemed to die after people stopped shooting them on 16mm). And as time passes, a beautiful home movie will tend to become richer and more meaningful, unlike most of the movies that are produced these days.

Also, really, there's no reason that someone with a bit of practice shouldn't be able to use a RED one solo. Pop on the 18-50mm, or switch over to windowed 2K mode if you're concerned about pulling focus solo and use a lens designed for 16mm. Maybe screw a ND filter on the end of the lens, depending on conditions, and go shoot.

And actually, I'm not sure that a practiced shooter will lose much more of the action than someone using an HDV camera. Following action is a skill in and of itself; a good documentary shooter will spend a lot of time perfecting a sense of where it's important to point the camera at any given time, in anticipation of an event unfolding in front of the lens. Obviously some things can't be predicted, but many can.

[Jason Murphy]

Don't forget we use to live in caves and eat raw meat.

Some things change for the good and as far as family shooting goes it is tough to tell when the "moment" will happen.

Jonas Mekas, a filmmaker who has probably made the best home movies of all time (shot almost entirely on 16mm on a Bolex), noted that shooting on film, he missed far fewer moments than shooting on DV. When he pressed a button on the film camera, he was instantly shooting footage of an event. When saw an interesting event unfolding and pressed record on the DV camera, it took a second or two for the tape to start rolling, and he said that for a long time, his video work was always about capturing the moments just after the event he really wanted to shoot.

On this topic, does anyone know how long, if any, the delay between pressing the record button and actual recording will be on the RED one?

[donatello b]

last year i came across alot of old film in my wifes parents basement that was shot from 1944-1960 ... the 1944-49 was shot on kodachrome 16mm - the rest on 8mm ...i had it all transferred ( wet gate) and i have to say the 16mm is beautiful ( this was when kodachrome was more muted colors) ... the 8mm is fair to ok ....
i'm planning to use some RED on the grand kids too ...

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Don't forget we use to live in caves and eat raw meat.


I have a yen for sushi and have always loved caves (my wife calls our home theatre "the cave" since I have blocked all the light to get the best contrast on the front projection system :calm: ).

Since we're on this subject I have been wondering about using the RedOne for transferring some old 8mm film my dad shot when I was a kid. I know I could send it out for transfer to DVD but then I am stuck in SD res and MPEG-2 :ohmy: .

I realize that the best case resolution of the 8mm and Super8 is nowhere near 4K but I am thinking it might give me a beefier data set for grading. It would put me in the RAW color space for tweaking the faded color palette of 40 year old footage.

Of course the next thought is whether the RedOne might be a great piece of a telecine chain for pro use?

[Jason Murphy]

last year i came across alot of old film in my wifes parents basement that was shot from 1944-1960 ... the 1944-49 was shot on kodachrome 16mm - the rest on 8mm ...i had it all transferred ( wet gate) and i have to say the 16mm is beautiful ( this was when kodachrome was more muted colors) ... the 8mm is fair to ok ....
i'm planning to use some RED on the grand kids too ...

Kodachrome was an absolutely gorgeous stock, and the image retains its color for years. Well preserved Kodachrome looks just as good and rich today as when it was shot. It's really sad that Kodak is no longer making it.

[Priyesh P.]

Don't forget we use to live in caves and eat raw meat.


Looooool!!!

[ChristopherKenworthy]

I wouldn't be where I am today - three features financed, to be shot on Red - if my Dad hasn't let me use his 8mm camera all those years ago. The next generation of directors will be sneaking off with their parents' Red One and a few CF cards.

I'm getting my Red One for features, but if I can shoot my kids in 4K rather than HDV, then why not?

[Zakaree Sandberg]

Come to think of it.. this is a great business idea.. sell yourself as a HOME MOVIE producer.. get hired to shoot family gatherings in perfect 4k imagery..
Cinematic home movies. I dont know about you.. but the last time i watched home movies on tape was a long time ago.. if we had family movies shot on 4k and digital Id prolly watch them all the time :) haha I think we have home movies in beta tape, before my dad upgraded to a VHS camera

[Ronnie Silos]

If I was to compare this to my still cameras, I shoot with 1DS and 1d MK2. I pull them out to shoot my kid (6 years old now) with the intentions of getting the best pictures I can. Of course we also have our point and shoot for trips to Disneyland or something. But everytime I make a slideshow for the year - and knowing this is for showing and archiving, I always go back to the 1d shots because the quality is amazing. I now have a Canon HV20 HDV and shoot memories with my kid. I make 3 minute music videos with him in it. I still have the Sanyo SD HD1 to shoot when we go to Disneyland, but at the end of the day, to setup a day at the beach and shoot a lasting memory clip of my kid, I go through all the effort of finding the right location, the right time for lighting, scheduling the day... So why not setup the Red. I already have good canon lenses (24 1.4, 50 1.2, 85.12, 135 2.0, and 200 1.8) - and I'm not a pro photographer - well, I don't do it for a living... Although my kid gets free Ice Skating rink time for shooting events at the place. So, for me, getting a Red to use with my lenses now using Erik Birger's adaptor will be a good compliment. This is also using the Harley arguement. So I do understand because I'm also there. I do it for my family. If I make a feature with my Red, even better! Don't get me wrong. I have plans to try and make money and business out of this, but at the least, if I get some amazing family videos on it, it's already more than paid for itself. I also do understand that buying this camera does not equal great videos. There's lots to learn! I'm using this time while waiting by reading and reading and reading. So my advice, learn all you can now - not just how to operate a camera - but the art of film making, storytelling, framing, etc..

Ronnie

[Jason Murphy]

I wouldn't be where I am today - three features financed, to be shot on Red - if my Dad hasn't let me use his 8mm camera all those years ago. The next generation of directors will be sneaking off with their parents' Red One and a few CF cards.

Agreed. Also, if you've practiced pulling focus on a RED by shooting home movies from the age of 11 or so, I think it's safe to say that you're on the way to being a pretty great camera op by the age of 20.

[ChristopherKenworthy]

Agreed. Also, if you've practiced pulling focus on a RED by shooting home movies from the age of 11 or so, I think it's safe to say that you're on the way to being a pretty great camera op by the age of 20.

Agreed on that as well. I'm not a DP, but I'm far better at pulling focus than I was before I had kids. They just don't hit their marks... So you learn to compensate. If you can shoot kids, professional actors are easy.

[Blair S. Paulsen]

(SNIP) If you can shoot kids, professional actors are easy.

So which is Lindsey Lohan?

[Harmonica]

Don't forget we use to live in caves and eat raw meat.

That's exactly my point. If you want an easy steak dinner, you can eat your New York strip right off the meat diaper. Personally, I prefer to go to the trouble of marinating it, spicing it, and grilling it to perfection.:bleh: (no offense to the Inuit people)

[Harmonica]

My point is was that if people have been able to get great family footage on manual film cameras in the past, John will be able to as well, with the Red. And like I said, I agree with you. Most of the time I won't be shooting family stuff on the Red.

[Emanuel A.]

Did anyone check my signature? :)

[Curran Giddens]

On this topic, does anyone know how long, if any, the delay between pressing the record button and actual recording will be on the RED one?

I think you may be able to record few seconds to RAM even before you press record...

[Peter Karlsson]

I will practice pulling focus on my dog chasing ballons... Now if Im able to atleast get ten seconds in focus, I'll be able to handle anything :)

[Mathieu Ghekiere]

You'll also miss every family event because you'll be so busy trying to pull focus instead of being there and enjoying the experience.

I'm sorry, but to the contrary of the many enthousiastic people here, I have to agree with this statement above...
Really, a 4k Digital Cinema camera with 35mm DOF for home events?

Thnk about choosing the right tool for the right job...

That's my opinion anyway.

[Michele Gavazzeni]

I've alwais thought family events are boring, you suggested a nice solution.

Hei granma step off I can't talk to you i have to operate my red!

[Ace]

I look at some of my childhood photos, some of them taken by my dad who was into the old Canon SLR's.. They have a special magic to them. A special kind of nostalgia to them which I dont see or perhaps feel is the better word, in video recording for example. Maybe its the depth of field that allows the subject to be suspended and seperated from the environent, maybe its the ability to capture nuanced details like the way eyelashes brush away from the eyelids or a starburst pattern in an iris.. Whatever it is, I do know that those subtleties dont get captured in "home video" on your regular video camera HD or not. They get captured in 35mm photography. RED = the new moving family photograph.

[Brandon Freeman]

I think we should all use the camera for whatever the heck we want. :)

If and when I ever have the finances to buy the RED, you bet your butt I'll be filming my cats, wife, and (if the Lord decides to bless us) our future kids.

But I really think that's entirely not anyone else's business. Some might feel it's a waste -- they're entitled to not waste their RED. Others wanna play -- let 'em play.

[Harmonica]

RED = the new moving family photograph.

Amen! This is why, although I'll mainly use a regular camcorder, I will often pull out my Red to capture that magical aspect you just don't get with video. Although it wasn't the greatest film, I thought Unstrung Heroes did an excellent job of illustrating this.

[redhead]

I never have

M

You don't know what you're missing, Martin! Steak tartar was the most delicious meal I have ever had. :biggrin:

[Craig Meadows]

If Michael Jackson can have a ferris wheel in his front yard who cares if someone wants a Red camera for home use. Um, o.k., maybe a bad analogy, in any case...to each their own LOL!

[Proteus]

I will practice pulling focus on my dog chasing ballons... Now if Im able to atleast get ten seconds in focus, I'll be able to handle anything :)

Don't forget that you can choose to adjust your distance from your dog instead of trying to adjust the focus ring! :)

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Don't forget we use to live in caves and eat raw meat.

What do you mean, "use to"? :biggrin:


Some things change for the good and as far as family shooting goes it is tough to tell when the "moment" will happen. So I choose the higher chance of capturing the moment over missing many moments but having better quality. Also there is a special quality about footage shot with camera technology of that time that will give the footage a period historic type look.

I think I see it both ways... For 99% of my personal / family type shooting, it's going to be the HDV palmcorder all the way. But that doesn't mean I won't take out the RED here and there. Not all RED shooting is going to require assistance or special lighting or anything of the sort. And I've found that crawling around playgrounds, tree forts, large rocks, etc.. chasing kids with an HVX200 + 35mm adapter to be real good conditioning for shooting wildlife. Even a stock DVX/HVX isn't an ideal camera for home movies, yet people do it.

[Finner]

I think I see it both ways... For 99% of my personal / family type shooting, it's going to be the HDV palmcorder all the way.

I agree 100% and feel it would be nice on the odd occasion to pull out the red for family shooting but that is because I will have it for work anyway and it will be sitting there. I just see it as a terrible choice for a hobby home camera.

[Jeremy Neish]

I plan to take it one step further. Part of the reason I bought a RED was to use it as a 12 megapixel still camera that happens to shoot 24fps (or more). That way I have plenty of stills to look through before I find that perfect one. (Yes I realize that I'm going to have to play with shutter settings to avoid too much motion blur. There is a shutter isn't there?)

[Jason Murphy]

There is a shutter isn't there?


as of now our shutter speeds are adjustable between 1/32 and 1/2000.

Apparently so. :)