Cinelike HV20 + Brevis footage!

[Emanuel A.]

Although on summer vacations while we're all waiting for our RED ONEs scheduled for the 2nd part of 2007, here's some for chewing gum regarding the 2007 1st semestral's capture device hype:

http://www.owamba.de/rheiler/clips/TeasInnDay.mov

EDIT -- And here's something about the clip's info:
http://www.cinevate.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=8535#8535

[Nik Manning]

Very impressive! Was that shot to tape or did you skip hdv compression? That looked like HDcam footage to me. Also I would love to see some before and after screen grabs. I want to see how dark your original footage was with the adapter. Thanks for sharing great job!

[Tom Lowe]

That's fantastic!

[Jason Francois]

That looks great!!!

It really is a great little camera. I'm doing a horror film in November and my original idea was to use two or three HV20's with the Brevis.....but I just don't know if it's logical with so many other great camera's out there.

Then again, for such an inexpensive camera, it's amazing. Hell, not even accounting for cost it's still a great camera.

Thanks for sharing.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

It looked pretty good... But it's just a bunch of talking heads and just looked like good quality corporate video to me. I wouldn't really call it "cinelike". I'd really like to see the HV20 + Brevis put to some good cinematic use.

Amazing little camera and setup though. I've almost unloaded my Sony HC3 palmcorder several times in favor of an HV20. But I think I'm going to tough it out and buy whatever Canon comes out with in the next year or so that replaces the HV20. Afterall, I'll have my RED. :)

[Daniel Reichenbach]

Hmmm, not very cinelike indeed... multiplied two layers, one blurred, desaturated and washed out with about 30% on the other? At least, I used this trick for a kind of filmlook sometimes. Some of the heads seems out of focus...

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Hehehe... No. AVCHD = shite. But it looks like the industry is going that way.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

...but I personally think HDV (and specially the HV20) is precisely that same thing you purposefully mispelled (thank goodness you're a moderator). :wink: Guess that's why we're all looking at RED, right? Tapeless, filmless workflow? No?

Well, yes, but I have to have something to shoot videos behind the scenes and something to have for family events that I can just hand to the wife and say "here, run this". :) I doubt I would actually buy a 35mm adapter and other gear to go along with it... Because if I'm going to go to that extent, I'll have RED.


But you wouldn't really know unless you tried them both, as I did. And, as you point out, if the industry's going in that direction, don't you think it may be for a reason?

Of course, but I was just marking that up to HDD and FLASH recording as they're trying to move away from being locked to tape. But I have to admit that I've only really tested AVCHD footage from 3 or 4 different cameras and have never owned one. Initial results and opinions formed by me were not good. But that could be due to early products. Just look how far HDV has come over the past 2 years. The first production HDV camcorders were really crappy too. My Sony HC3 camcorder is a complete piece of crap compared to an HV20 (hard to believe, I know), but the image is terribly noisy and color reproduction is horrible and occasionally completely too far off to even fix without extensive re-coloring of everything in post. But it's just for home movies, I would never even think of using it for any real work.

So all things considered, maybe AVCHD isn't as bad as I thought. I suppose in another 6 months or so, after I finally decide to drop-kick that Sony palmcorder into the trash bin, I'll have to take a serious look at what's out there. :blush:

[John Godden]

Although on summer vacations while we're all waiting for our RED ONEs scheduled for the 2nd part of 2007, here's some for chewing gum regarding the 2007 1st semestral's capture device hype:

http://www.owamba.de/rheiler/clips/TeasInnDay.mov

EDIT -- And here's something about the clip's info:
http://www.cinevate.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=8535#8535

That's a perfect use for HDV + Brevis. HV20 + HDV + little/no motion = good/excellent results.

JohnG

JohnG

[Tom Lowe]

Motion (camera motion) seems to be the big issue. With what tiny amount of HV20 footage I have shot in 24F mode, it seems very choppy. I've barely shot anything yet, though, so that's just my first impression. Locked off on sticks, it seems fine.

[Roberto B]

Hmmm, not very cinelike indeed... multiplied two layers, one blurred, desaturated and washed out with about 30% on the other? At least, I used this trick for a kind of filmlook sometimes.yeah, your quote is actually there.. "i used this trick for a kind of filmlook sometimes" ehehehe..

btw, could you show us something from yours?..

[Poi Boy]

Am I the only one that can't download this file ?
-A

[Stephen Gentle]

...something like this?

http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=177&modelid=15617

Perhaps?

:whistling:

Just out of interest, does that camcorder record full 1080p? Because they have the logo up there, but they also did with the HV20 (even though HDV only records 1440x1080)> I know you can get the full picture out the HDMI, but this is not (yet) viable in the field...

Also, does this have the same rolling shutter problems that the HV20 did?

[Yannick Hagman]

Hmmm, not very cinelike indeed... multiplied two layers, one blurred, desaturated and washed out with about 30% on the other? At least, I used this trick for a kind of filmlook sometimes.

First: it's an adapter and not a postpro-trick and it seems pretty on focus in my eyes. It's kind of rude to diss competitors without much knowledge of how it was shot anyway, isn't it?

[Gordon Prince]

Yep, he has no idea what he's talking about.

[Michael Hastings]

Hehehe... No. AVCHD = shite. But it looks like the industry is going that way.

I just bought a Panasonic 3 chip with AVCHD (miniDVD version) on clearance for $500 at Circuit City and haven't even shot anything with it yet. (I make underwater housings so I try a lot of these little cameras.)

It seems to me AVCHD will eventually be better as they raise the data rate but I've been telling people for a while that AVCHD in its current form wasn't as good as HDV since even though it is H.264 the data rate is too low to be as good. However, that is mostly speculation on my part based on some early reading - have you done much comparison?

edit: I just saw Regista's posts so I'm interested in everyone's evaluation. I'd like to know what to tell my customers - many don't want the expense and size of the FX7/V1 type of cameras and these Panasonics with 3 chip HD for about a grand are pretty attractive if the video recording is close. Where are the deficiencies? If you bring both HDV and AVCHD into final cut converted to a better format (say dvcproHD) are they similar or is one clearly better than the other.

I normally do more testing of my own, but have been pretty busy of late, and I'm fighting a couple of herniated discs, so I don't know when I will get to it.

[Bruce Allen]

If you bring HDV into FCP go to ProRes. Transcoding to DVCPROHD will lose horizontal resolution (1280x1080 is the actual resolution of DVCPROHD at 1080).

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

[Daniel Reichenbach]

yeah, your quote is actually there.. "i used this trick for a kind of filmlook sometimes" ehehehe..

btw, could you show us something from yours?..

trailer? go to


http://elementp.ch/en/portfolio/commercial/trailer_commercial_en.php

[Roberto B]

trailer? go to


http://elementp.ch/en/portfolio/commercial/trailer_commercial_en.php

are you the dp?.. good stuff.. it looks as though your skills as filmmaker are steps away from those as observer.. at most on 35mm adapters over video.. :red_bandana:

[Daniel Reichenbach]

Yes: DoP, Director, Cutter, Compositor, Colorist, FX guy ... with a great team in the background. I shoot a lot of DigiBeta/HD stuff but I never worked with 35mm adapters, I had most of the time the possibility to go for 35mm film. And I knew, at the end of this tunnel with all this discussion how to shoot video, that it looks like film (which is not really possible because you can't marrie to different technics to tell them to look like film or video, there will be something new), there will be a camera like RED. Was good to wait...:biggrin:

[Yannick Hagman]

The RED won't look like film as less as an adapter does.

[Daniel Reichenbach]

Agree, my words

[Daniel Reichenbach]

But it will give as a new tool for a new century in filmmaking, for stunning pictures with hopefully no compromise in quality.

[Yannick Hagman]

That's for sure. But not for everyone affordable.

[Daniel Reichenbach]

If you're good, you will win money, if you win money, you will have a RED

[Roberto B]

hey dude.. your work speaks for you.. as i said and we can all check, as filmmaker.. you tops..

but it looks as though not so much aside.. as observer where you unfortunately haven't shown the same level about this business.. it looks as though..

to make art so simple than that, it doesn't give you money as immediately paid off.. and if there is who works for the swiss brands, there's another one pursuing non commercial art.. where there's no audience for a few sort of communication..

but i can give you another example..

because it's about commercial stuff that we're talking about.. and even on this business field, you'll need (as you said) an equivalent crew.. and budget.. that is, a market.. try to go to the deep africa where you can't reach your swiss brands, live and work there and you'll see if you would get the same outcome for once..

the budget is the key.. this varies (de)pending from the market where your're based in or (and) on..

:alien:

[Yannick Hagman]

Probably, I'm just starting out now. But your income stream seems to come from more than one field. Could you also make a living only from directing in Switzerland? That certainly would be much harder.

Speaking about DIY-adapters - Does this rock or does it rock?
http://eki.pp.fi/temp/Eki/HV20/35mm_adapter/firstlook

This is perhaps the best looking adapter I've seen so far, the HV20 is even upside down..

[Joe Carney]

I saw some video over at hv20.com and noticed pretty bad vignetting on the extreme left and right of the footage using only the onboard lens. Not to be confused with the rolling shutter issue.
I guess the vignetting is pretty normal for low end camcorder from what I've read.

[Yannick Hagman]

Would you mind post me a link of it?

[Stephen Williams]

I saw some video over at hv20.com and noticed pretty bad vignetting on the extreme left and right of the footage using only the onboard lens. Not to be confused with the rolling shutter issue.
I guess the vignetting is pretty normal for low end camcorder from what I've read.

Hi,

Probably potholing not vignetting, thats the problem with lenses designed for film that are not telecentric.

Stephen

[Jeremy Hughes]

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Canon-HG10-Camcorder-Review-33146.htm

Jeff? Did you hear about the HG10? The AVCHD version of the HV20?