LTO backup

[Debashish]

I just want to know how to backup LTO through BRU PE software as i am loading it is not loading. What is the meaning of archiving here ? If anyone helps me it will be a great help for me. I am having Tandberg T24 storage device and operating system MAC, software BRU PE.

[warwickt]

Hi Debashish, not enough information here. As this is a vendor specific issue that may be related to you environment, I'd suggest you contact TOLISGROUP Support or PM Tim Jones on this forum.

BRU-PE works great for me.

Add some more infor with respect of your workflow and operation and set up.. maybe can assist with some ideas.
w
HK

[gifford]

BRU PE works well with LTO 4. Make sure the drive is up and running and then start BRU PE. You can check it is seen in the backup section or in the setup/tools in advanced view. If it still doesn't work check it can be seen in the OS X profiler. If you still have problems then suspect the drive or contact TOLIS Support

[Tim Jones]

I just want to know how to backup LTO through BRU PE software as i am loading it is not loading. What is the meaning of archiving here ? If anyone helps me it will be a great help for me. I am having Tandberg T24 storage device and operating system MAC, software BRU PE.

Not a very complete description of what you are running into here. Have you opened a support ticket with our support team?

As Gifford indicates, what does the system profiler say about the attached devices? Is the LTO-4 drive listed under SAS or Parallel SCSI devices?

What do you see in a terminal if you execute "tapectl display"?

We'll be pleased to help you with your problem if you can give us more details than simply that it does not appear to be working.

Tim

[Michael Lindsay]

Hi Tim (sorry for the highjack)

Does BRU PE write into a proprietary file?

I'm using retrospect at the moment and it is the very opposite of what I consider to be good Archive software (it own updated software versions can't read earlier software written files)

thanks

Michael L

[Tim Jones]

Hi Michael,

Yes, BRU's format is proprietary - that's what provides our more robust recovery capabilities. However, unlike Retrospect, every new version of BRU (and all BRU family members) are fully backwards compatible. In fact, we just had a user with 1/4" (QIC 150) tapes from the Amiga Newtek system in 1986/7 (BRU 6 or thereabout) restore his data onto a Linux system using BRU 17.1. Those archives are 23 years old!

Not only is BRU backwards compatible with older archives, but we will also restore to a completely different platform (something ELSE Retrospect won't do :001_tt2:).

Tim

[Evangelos Achillopoulos]

Tim its same time now that I have post this on another thread can you please comment?

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=471781&postcount=188

Good to have you back...

[Michael Lindsay]

Hi Michael,

Yes, BRU's format is proprietary - that's what provides our more robust recovery capabilities.

Hi Tim

Forgive my ignorance but why is proprietary more robust...

I would love the ability to write to LTO4 with a format that can be read simply in any LTO4 (or 5) drive.. (an open source reader would be great)

BRU is looking good but I have about 40-50 LTO4 tapes that need redone so I want to make sure my next choice is the correct one..

kind regards

Michael L

[Rick Allen]

Anyone used these lto's http://www.lynxtech.com.au/products/lynxLTO.asp apparently OEM HP decks. Pricing seems too good to be true!

[Tim Jones]

First, let me warn that this is more "commercial" than I like to be in these forums, but I feel it's important to get the answer out there.


Hi Tim

Forgive my ignorance but why is proprietary more robust...
Simply because the formats like tar and cpio only record the bare minimum in the way of file info and there's no way - short of restoring the data - to determine if an archive is any good. For a serious look at this, we have a comparison white paper (http://www.tolisgroup.com/docs/whitepapers/TarComparisonBRU.pdf) that will give you a bit more insight into why we do what we do with BRU.


I would love the ability to write to LTO4 with a format that can be read simply in any LTO4 (or 5) drive.. (an open source reader would be great)

BRU is looking good but I have about 40-50 LTO4 tapes that need redone so I want to make sure my next choice is the correct one..
While not open source, BRU is available on almost every platform out there and our archives are compatible across all of them. This means an archive created with BRU on OS X today is recoverable on Solaris next month or in 5 years. Or an archive from Linux is recoverable on OS X - an so on.

As for "technology creep", BRU PE includes a license for the TOLIS Tape Tools product. TTT includes a mechanism that will allow you to copy or migrate your archives intact from one technology type to another. This means that as you move from LTO-4 to LTO-7, you can migrate your old archives from the older technology to the new - no more antiquated drives hanging around - knowing that you'll still be able to recover the data contained within them. Or, move your AIT-3 archives to LTO or your LTO-6 to whatever the new storage device is in 2025. And, since we are totally committed to full backward compatibility between BRU versions, the BRU that you can get in 10 or 20 years will still restore archives that you make today (see my note about the Amiga tapes above as a proof point).

Also, BRU is not a tape-only solution. We'll happily store archives onto disk or into the "cloud". This is because BRU is completely device independent and we do not have the driver and device lock that so many other backup tools bring with them. This is also why BRU works with all tape drive and library types on OS X - SCSI, SAS, Fibre-Channel, iSCSI, Firewire, and USB (even SATA or ATAPI if you find a tape device that uses those interfaces) - with no special device drivers. It's also why we have not changed the code in BRU that writes to the tape devices since 10.2.5 and everything still works through 10.6.1 and drives LTO-4 tapes at 120MB/sec.

While BRU is proprietary, it's been around for 25 years and we plan on being around for many, many more. Furthermore, if you are a NARAS member, you'll have access to BRU technology into the future even if TOLIS Group ceases to exist because we're providing source in escrow that will allow NARAS members to gain access to the actual code and continue moving forward in the case of a catastrophe within TOLIS Group. We are also in communication with the SCL and SMPTE groups to offer a similar escrow option.

For private companies, we will also provide escrow via your legal representation so long as you maintain the fees required for the escrow maintenance.

TOLIS Group and BRU exist for one purpose - to protect data long-term. Our archives have been recoverable for over 20 years by the current version and will continue to be so for as long as BRU exists (or until 2012 if you subscribe to the doomsday theory :huh: - uh, that's meant to be a joke...).

Tim

[Michael Lindsay]

Hi Tim

Thanks allot for your input.

Sorry one more advice question..

If I buy your software this week can I reuse once used LTO4 tapes as I don't really want to buy 40x lto4 tapes just to move away from retrospect.

If yes what is the best way to erase?

thanks again

Michael

[Tim Jones]

Hi Tim

Thanks allot for your input.

Sorry one more advice question..

If I buy your software this week can I reuse once used LTO4 tapes as I don't really want to buy 40x lto4 tapes just to move away from retrospect.

If yes what is the best way to erase?

thanks again

Michael

All you need to do is tell BRU PE to overwrite and you can reuse all of them.

We do provide a way to erase the tapes in the Setup/Tools panel, but that's just a waste of tape life since the first time BRU PE overwrites the tape, the Retrospect data is toast.

Tim

[Michael Lindsay]

... but that's just a waste of tape life..

Thanks again

But does the above mean that reusing the tape even once is a slight problem?

thanks

Michael (really regretting buying Retrospect) Lindsay

[Harry Lipnick]

Hi Tim-
I'm looking into LTO solutions, but having never use one before I'm wondering whether or not tapes can be written to sequentially (100GB this week, 400GB next month, etc.) or if it's a one time deal, and then erase and re-write. Thanks for being so generous with your knowledge.
Peace,

-Harry

[Tim Jones]

Thanks again

But does the above mean that reusing the tape even once is a slight problem?

thanks

Michael (really regretting buying Retrospect) Lindsay
Absolutely not. LTO tapes are good for 1,000's of writes. Those tapes should last you quite a few years before you need to worry about replacing them. Another reason LTO is such a good solution.

My point was simply that erasing is not required when you're overwriting, so why use any of the tape's life for an unnecessary operation.

Tim

[Tim Jones]

Hi Tim-
I'm looking into LTO solutions, but having never use one before I'm wondering whether or not tapes can be written to sequentially (100GB this week, 400GB next month, etc.) or if it's a one time deal, and then erase and re-write. Thanks for being so generous with your knowledge.
Peace,

-Harry
Hi Harry,

You can append data and (if you're using BRU PE), the software will tell you when you've filled a tape and prompt you for a new one. You don't need to worry about whether your data will all fit onto one tape since we will gladly write your data to as many tapes as are required.

Tim

[Harry Lipnick]

Hi Harry,

You can append data and (if you're using BRU PE), the software will tell you when you've filled a tape and prompt you for a new one. You don't need to worry about whether your data will all fit onto one tape since we will gladly write your data to as many tapes as are required.

Tim

Fantastic. That's the answer I was hoping for. I was wondering too, if I wanted to make two identical copies with only one drive, can BRU PE "print" 2 copies without having to recreate the session?
Peace,

-Harry

[Tim Jones]

Fantastic. That's the answer I was hoping for. I was wondering too, if I wanted to make two identical copies with only one drive, can BRU PE "print" 2 copies without having to recreate the session?
Peace,

-Harry
While Doubler mode is designed for use with 2 drives simultaneously, for the 2.1 release, we will allow you to run Doubler mode to a single drive specifying the number of copies that you want.

For now, while you don't have to recreate the job definition, you will need to click the "Create Archive" button twice :smiley:.

Tim

[Harry Lipnick]

While Doubler mode is designed for use with 2 drives simultaneously, for the 2.1 release, we will allow you to run Doubler mode to a single drive specifying the number of copies that you want.

For now, while you don't have to recreate the job definition, you will need to click the "Create Archive" button twice :smiley:.

Tim

Cool beans man. Thanks.
Peace,

-Harry

[Evan T Gervais]

Hey Tim,

Having slight issues using the Tape Doubler function with BRU PE 2.2.0. Both HP Storageworks Ultrium 3000 SAS external drives running the doubler are not running at the same speed. Also, one tape is putting more media on it than the other when I need to insert the second tape for the back up. One LTO 4 tape has 757 GB, the other stops at 690 GB.

Any thoughts on what might be going on? Thanks!

[Tim Jones]

No two tapes are always going to be the same. Tapes will exhibit soft errors - blocks of data that are not written successfully and automatically rewritten. This is one of the reasons why we don't simply write the same stream to both drives, but rather create to self-contained streams.

As to the speed, while large numbers of soft errors will contribute slightly to performance issues, the source drive's speed can be a real issue when 2 processes are reading at the same time. Is your media drive a fast SAS or F-C array or a USB, Firewire, or internal drive?

Tim

[Evan T Gervais]

Thanks for the further info, Tim

The decks are hooked up via mini-SAS, and the media currently being backed up is on an external HDD Lacie Hal connected via FW800. Usually the backups are connected to an external HDD via E-SATA.

[Tim Jones]

eSATA will definitely be faster than FW-800. Remember, the TOTAL bandwidth for a FW-800 drive is 78MB/sec. Far less than the 160MB/sec that driving 2 LTO-4 drives would require.

[Evan T Gervais]

Thanks for all the help, Tim.

I guess in the end I didn't have anything to worry about when I noticed the different backup sizes on the first tapes of my multi-tape job. If I could ask one more thing it would be this:

BRU adds a header of approximately 15% of the total file size. So if I calculate that my media will fit onto 2 LTO 4 tapes (four total with the use of Tape Doubler). If the media on the first tapes are different (one 757 GB one 690 GB), how will I know that both copies will actually fit on two tapes, and one won't end up being on three? Is there another method I should go about for calculating how many tapes I will need for each back? Currently I just take the total GB size and multiply it by 1.15.

[Evan T Gervais]

I just discovered that you guys have calculators to better estimate all of this. Great news!

[Tim Jones]

The unfortunate truth about tape is that there's no real "exact" method for determining a tape's capacity. For example - if you're backing up mostly R3D files, but throw in 100GB of doc files / EDL lists, etc., that 100GB will exhibit some level of compression. This could mean that an 800GB tape would actually store 910GB of processed BRU data. On the other hand, an old tape of questionable repute suffering from a high level of soft errors may only store 700GB using that same data.

BRU will properly handle the cross-over data so long as you continue to feed tapes into the drive.

[Evan T Gervais]

I seem to be having a lot of issues with the new BRU PE released (version 2.2.0). It seems the stalling on restoring files (mainly .R3Ds) is still there. When I turn on Auto-Trimming, it helps with the problem but they are still there. The other thing that happens is when I create a backup, while it is writing, it tells me that the tape is starting to rewind. The backup completes properly, but sometimes it doesn't generate the same Archive ID as what is on the tape, so the tape won't be able to restore unless I manually go in and change the Archive IDs to match.

Also, one last thing. I know that BRU PE 2.2.0 can read previous versions archive IDs. But can, for example, BRU PE 2.1.0 read 2.2.0 archive IDs? Just wondering in case I want to revert back to 2.1.0 because of these issues.

[Evan T Gervais]

Another Issue I have found is that when you complete a single tape backup, and have "Verify Archive" disabled, BRU will still verify the backup. If you abort the verify, BRU will crash and you will no longer be able to use that Archive it created.

A bug we have found here is if you don't rewind your tape if you are overwriting a pervious tape, then BRU PE 2.2.0 will display the "Rewinding Tape" dialogue box overtop of your progress bars when doing a single tape backup. This only happens during single tapes. No issues as of yet using the tape doubler.

[Evan T Gervais]

All of the bugs I have stated above only happen during Single Tape Backups. Right now, it seems more efficient for me to use the tape doubler function when creating single tape backups, and then just erase the duplicate copy later. I haven't had any issues while using the tape doubler, but major bugs while making single tapes.

[Maciej Roszkowski]

Another Issue I have found is that when you complete a single tape backup, and have "Verify Archive" disabled, BRU will still verify the backup. If you abort the verify, BRU will crash and you will no longer be able to use that Archive it created.

A bug we have found here is if you don't rewind your tape if you are overwriting a pervious tape, then BRU PE 2.2.0 will display the "Rewinding Tape" dialogue box overtop of your progress bars when doing a single tape backup. This only happens during single tapes. No issues as of yet using the tape doubler.

Hi Evan
I'm having the same issue with the tape rewinding dialog. I usually forced Bru to shut down and overwrote the tape. I never tried letting it just sit on the initial tape. I'm in the process of lettign it roll now to see if it will create a usable tape.

Tape import tool is gone away as well which really irked me. I contacted support and they gave me the file. Without an extended support contract they won't even respond to you though.

[Kevin Wild]

We were using Retrospect for the past couple years with a Quantum LTO 4. HORRIBLE solution and not recommended to anyone. Run fast to Tolis Group.

We switched to an LTO 5 drive with Bru software and the difference is night and day. MUCH better solution for backing up media.

I don't like bashing products, but Retrospect deserves it when they went from V6 to V8 with no compatibility between them. I have about 40 LTO tapes that now need V6 and a very specific Mac OS. So I now have to keep a bootable drive with only the Mac OS and V6 available just in case I need old footage. Very dumb on their part. I can't imagine how angry people are that have 100's of LTO tapes that can't be read by the V8 software.

Bru rocks. Love it.