Great Alternative...P + S Technik 35Digital Lenses [Archive]

Thor Wixom

08-10-2007, 03:17 AM

Is there anyone from P + S Technik on this board who would like to comment on the 35Digital lenses, or at least someone who has direct experience with them?

http://www.zgc.com/zgc.nsf/c7a682995edb4e7585256b4d001ebd57/2031a885fd32c263852572c70059af71?OpenDocument

They are made with Zeiss glass, have the Nikon F mount, and the standard 0.8 gear ring is compatible with all professional film accessories, like follow focus and lens motors.

They are more pricey than regular Nikon lenses, but considering the Zeiss glass and the 0.8 gear ring for follow focus, they may be the single best compromise between cost and performance for those of us who can't pony up $30,000 for a set of prime Super Speeds.

Anyone care to comment?

-Thor

Andreas Höhn

08-10-2007, 03:43 AM

Thor Wixom

08-10-2007, 03:54 AM

The focus rings moving opposite directions. PS has a workaround for this, they offer some direction-modified chrosziel FF in a package as well. Unfortunately this kit will not be available in PL mount, that what the sales manager told me.

Thanks Andreas. That helps. It might still be a good solution for those of us who were planning to go with the Nikon mount for the first while.

-Thor

Evin Grant

08-10-2007, 04:42 AM

Just but the Zeiss ZFs as is, you can get the whole kit (25,35,50,85) for $3000 and then buy Focus gears from Redrock or P+S. Mechanically and optically they are the same. I played with one at Cinegear here in LA, it had the same focus draw as a standard ZF lens so there is really no advantage to the rehousing, other than look.

PaulClements

08-10-2007, 08:22 AM

...there is really no advantage to the rehousing, other than look.

And I'd say they don't look as nice either so that's not really an advantage!

I'm guessing their real advantage is correct pitch gearing (Like Evin says, can be altered with gears from RR and P+S anyway) and free aperture ring no?

Evin Grant

08-10-2007, 10:21 AM

The free aperture is probably an easy Mod.

Stephen Williams

08-10-2007, 10:29 AM

Hi,

I am sure the lenses are properly collimated too.

Stephen

PaulClements

08-10-2007, 10:46 AM

Stephen Williams

08-10-2007, 11:10 AM

Fair point Stephen, if they have been altered from F to PL mount that would be a big miss if they weren't lol!

I guess the point is that on many other cameras that have the inability to remount to Nikon F these lenses would have a value that warrants the price tag a little more, for RedOne they don't necessarily.

Hi Paul,

They need to be collimated for the focus marks to have a chance of being correct, whilst retaining a Nikon F mount.

Stephen

Roberto B

08-10-2007, 12:45 PM

collimation.. collimation.. always the same.. your 2nd obsession stephen.. after portholing.. :innocent:

PaulClements

08-10-2007, 01:29 PM

Hi Paul,

They need to be collimated for the focus marks to have a chance of being correct, whilst retaining a Nikon F mount.

Stephen

Sorry I hadn't really looked at them properly. I automatically presumed they were PL mounted for that price. Frankly those prices are a bloody rip off, if you're going to rehouse lenses do it properly and go the whole hog, don't just modify them so they are slightly different than their original counterparts and stick a massive profit ontop. $2200 for a modified aperture and focus ring (and collimation lol) - crackers! :)

PaulClements

08-10-2007, 01:33 PM

^^^oooh naughty minx. dirty sweet talk. :biggrin:

IMO, it would be erroneous to try and compare the still lenses on a Nikon mount and a completely customized zoom. I'm not an expert but i know enough to realize the difference.

The reason that still lenses are customized are numerous:

cine lenses

* rolls off gently unlike stills
* less breathing
* larger barrels
* better markings (wider spaced)
* matched
* usually more robust

The customization is used to achieve more of the aforementioned...

Wait before jumping on the stillls bandwagon. RED zoom sounds like a better choice.. Just my 3 pence.:biggrin:

Yes but they aren't being customized as Cine lenses persay, they are being modified to work with Nikon F-mount for use with Mini35, PRO35, P+S Scope etc.

chuck colburn

08-10-2007, 01:47 PM

Yes but they aren't being customized as Cine lenses persay, they are being modified to work with Nikon F-mount for use with Mini35, PRO35, P+S Scope etc.

Hmmm

I thought they came from Zeiss in F mount.

PaulClements

08-10-2007, 02:07 PM

Hmmm

I thought they came from Zeiss in F mount.

EXACTLY!

What I was meaning was they are being modified and only work on F-mount still, not PL mount.

chuck colburn

08-10-2007, 02:15 PM

And they still focus anti-cinewise, though that's not to much of an issue if you manual FF is reversable or your using an electric type unit. The larger barrels do expand the throw a bit.

Thor Wixom

08-10-2007, 02:56 PM

Sorry I hadn't really looked at them properly. I automatically presumed they were PL mounted for that price. Frankly those prices are a bloody rip off, if you're going to rehouse lenses do it properly and go the whole hog, don't just modify them so they are slightly different than their original counterparts and stick a massive profit ontop. $2200 for a modified aperture and focus ring (and collimation lol) - crackers! :)

Okay,

Here's another possible solution:

http://rplens.com/products.htm

This set is looking more attractive to me than the P+S Techniks, especially for the price.

-Thor

Roberto B

08-10-2007, 03:02 PM

let evin.. when he'll find it he will say what he thinks about your link.. lol

with luck you'll not be suspended for spreading this sort of tips.. ehehehe

long live our evin!

Stephen Williams

08-10-2007, 03:44 PM

collimation.. collimation.. always the same.. your 2nd obsession stephen.. after portholing.. :innocent:

Hi,

I don't want to give my focus puller an excuse for missing focus when wide open!

Stephen

chuck colburn

08-10-2007, 07:36 PM

let evin.. when he'll find it he will say what he thinks about your link.. lol

with luck you'll not be suspended for spreading this sort of tips.. ehehehe

long live our evin!

What?

Who are you?

chuck colburn

08-10-2007, 08:06 PM

Hi,

I don't want to give my focus puller an excuse for missing focus when wide open!

Stephen

Stephen,

I'm starting to think mayby whoever these people are they might be not quite right in some ways.

Chuck

Evin Grant

08-10-2007, 08:26 PM

Filmaker's talking about that RP lens guy, I ripped him a new one a few months ago for trying to pimp his horrendiously overpriced "Prime sets" here.
All he's doing is buying used Nikkors and attaching step rings and follow focus gears to make them look more cine, then charge a hefty premium. I'm all for a free market but this guy is ripping people off, at least the P+S modification is a modification, possibly with the benefit of collimation but certainly better witness marks, the RP lens sets are just standard Nikors wih nome machined aluminum slapped on. I think I offered this before, if you really want a set of good Nikkors and just can't bear to find them yourself I'll gladly take your money and put together a much better condition, better matched, faster set than this guy is selling for about $1000 cheaper. It's not rocket science, it's E-bay. Anyone interested?

chuck colburn

08-10-2007, 08:32 PM

Ah I see.... now! lol

Evin Grant

08-10-2007, 08:46 PM

Sorry I'm on a rant...:ranting2:
In completed items on Ebay I've found these examples of AI/S Nikkors:
20mm f2.8 $232
28mm f2.0 $323
35mm f1.4 $293
50mm f1.4 $99
85mm f1.4 $482
Red rock gears $300
Step up rings $60
Grand total $1789

So even if I charged $1000 premium for all this I could still beat RP lens by $461 while delivereing one more wide lens and faster 35,50 & 85mm lenses. So I hope you get why I think this guy's a shill.

OK rant over.:angry02:

Thor Wixom

08-10-2007, 10:59 PM

So even if I charged $1000 premium for all this I could still beat RP lens by $461 while delivereing one more wide lens and faster 35,50 & 85mm lenses. So I hope you get why I think this guy's a shill.

OK rant over.:angry02:

Evin,

I really appreciate your feedback. I'm sure a many of us would be making mistakes and wasting a lot of money without your advice.

I do have one more question if you don't mind.

I found a thread on another site that talks about how it might be possible to make an adapter to fit a PL mount lens on a Nikon camera.

The reason for this is that the PL focal plane is longer than the Nikon focal plane. Therefore, it might be theoretically possible to "fit" an adapter between a PL lens and a Nikon camera body.

Following that logic, if such an adapter could be machined, Red users could order their Red Ones with the Nikon mount, use Nikon lenses most of the time, and throw the adapter on when they need to rent a more expensive PL lens for a particular shoot.

I could be off here, that's why I ask. What do you think?

-Thor Wixom

Evin Grant

08-10-2007, 11:56 PM

It's not the flange focal depth that's the problem it's the throat. The throat on PL is too wide, it won't fit in the F mounts innner diameter, and even if you could the PL (Positive Lock) mount is designed to hold much more weight than the Nikon F, so I would only use primes or maybe the Red 18-50mm. But this doesn't matter becasue the Nikon F mounts FFD is 46.5mm and PL is 52mm that leaves only 5.5mm for the adapter, as well the Nikon has a 44mm throat that would have to accomadate a 52mm PL mount. Sorry.

Thor Wixom

08-11-2007, 02:24 AM

Evin,

Thanks again. It's humbling to have shot for so long on fixed lens cameras and then feel like such a newb moving to the Red One.

Your knowledge and patience have been helpful in the transition and are greatly appreciated.

-Thor

Michael Hastings

08-11-2007, 02:48 AM

Evin,

Following that logic, if such an adapter could be machined, Red users could order their Red Ones with the Nikon mount, use Nikon lenses most of the time, and throw the adapter on when they need to rent a more expensive PL lens for a particular shoot.
-Thor Wixom

What's the point, the PL mount is standard/free right? We don't get a discount if we leave the PL off do we? did I miss something?

Stephen Williams

08-11-2007, 02:52 AM

What's the point, the PL mount is standard/free right? We don't get a discount if we leave the PL off do we? did I miss something?

Hi,

I think it would be good if Red offered 1 lens mount of choice included with the Red one, collimated at the factory.

Stephen

Thor Wixom

08-11-2007, 11:06 AM

What's the point, the PL mount is standard/free right? We don't get a discount if we leave the PL off do we? did I miss something?

The point was to be able to swap PL mount and Nikon mount lenses quickly. Since it will be (presumably) difficult to swap the PL and Nikon mounts on the camera, and it is not possible to put PL mounts on Nikon lenses because Nikon has a shorter focal plane, my thought was to make an adapter to put PL lenses in a Nikon camera mount.

Order the Red One with the Nikon mount, get an adapter for PL lenses, and suddenly you don't have to commit to one lens format or the other. You end up with the best of both worlds.

But apparently, it is not feasible.

This does lead me to some other questions, though.

1. If Oliver Wood had Arri modify Nikon lenses for the Bourne Ultimatum, then wouldn't it be technically possible to put PL mounts on Nikon lenses, even if some special modifications had to be done to the lenses themselves?

2. Is it possible to put Nikon mounts on PL lenses, thus skipping the need for an adapter, and making it possible to quickly swap between high end cinema glass and still lenses? This is assuming of course that I would own (not rent) the PL lenses that would be modified.

Evin?

-Thor Wixom

Stephen Williams

08-11-2007, 11:13 AM

1. If Oliver Wood had Arri modify Nikon lenses for the Bourne Ultimatum, then wouldn't it be technically possible to put PL mounts on Nikon lenses, even if some special modifications had to be done to the lenses themselves?

2. Is it possible to put Nikon mounts on PL lenses, thus skipping the need for an adapter, and making it possible to quickly swap between high end cinema glass and still lenses? This is assuming of course that I would own (not rent) the PL lenses that would be modified.

Evin?

-Thor Wixom

Hi,

Read Arri Modified = Very Expensive

Many PL lenses are too wide to fit in a Nikon mount, if an adapter could be easily made, believe me it would have been done.

Stephen

Thor Wixom

08-11-2007, 11:06 PM

Hi,

Read Arri Modified = Very Expensive

Many PL lenses are too wide to fit in a Nikon mount, if an adapter could be easily made, believe me it would have been done.

Stephen

I suppose at that point it just makes sense to purchase the Red lenses. Now the question is availability since I didn't get reservations on any of the lenses.

-Thor