The best use of $3000...

[Evin Grant]

I've been thinking about this since the Birger mounts were formally priced and possibly even earlier when the high ISO samples were posted.
The $3000 mark seems to me to be the point in wich I would stop thinking about still lenses and begin to contemplate the 18-50mm Red zoom. It just so happens that this is also the number that would put you into a more or less complete set of the new Zeiss ZF primes (25,35,50,85). As well as about the price of three f2.8 AFS zoom Nikkor lenses (12-24, 28-70, 70-200). Or a crazy complete set of used MF Nikkor primes(15,20,28,35,50,85,135) that would be a stop faster on average than the Zeiss's. In Canon EOS you could get three zooms as well (10-22, 24-70, 70-200). Both zoom packages from N & C would be about $3600 because of IS/VR teles. But you get my drift. An EOS prime set would look alot like the Zeiss (24,35,50,85) but all the leses would be f1.4 except the 85 at f1.8. (The Zeiss 25 is f2.8 and the 35 is f2)

So that's what you CAN get but what would the diffrernces be + or -?
Firstly let me say I didn't include any lens that I didn't feel were up to the job of resolving to the full 4K of the myterium. All of the lenses mentioned are superb, if different in thier own ways.

So what are the benefits of each? I'll start with size, considering I've only chosen f2.8 Pro caliber zooms the smallest and lightest package is probably the Zeiss ZF set, followed by the EOS primes then the Zooms (Both C & N are about the same) followed by the Nikkor uber set. All of these sets would fit into a pelican 1520, so it's not that big a deal.

Convienece? well either of the zooms have it there, especially for dusty outdoor locations were lens changes are probably not the best idea if they can be avoided.

Speed? the Nikon MF uber set would have the most f1.4 & f2 lenses as well as an f1.2 50mm but it's followed close by the EOS primes sporting a 24mm f1.4 Vs. the 28mm f2 Nikkor. It still remains to be seen if we can even focus at those stops or if we need to because of the Red's awesome sensitivity, we may only ever need f2.8, OK that's an overstatement but still.

Value? The used Nikkor uber set will probably only go up in value as everyone buys up the good vintage glass. The rest being bought new would lose value instantly.

Name recognition? Well Zeiss has everyone over a barrel there, you just can't beat telling a producer "Oh yea, I have a Zeiss prime set, $300 a day"

Range? The Canon zoom goes widest, but you could substitute the Sigma 10-20 for the Nikon 12-24 and have a match.

Consistency? The Nikkor 12-24 is a straight f4 and the lens series are all the pro line AFS zooms so they win here, the Canon 10-22 not being an "L" like the other two.

Compatibility? The Birger/Nikon mount wins by a hair here because you can mount all of the lenses mentioned except the Canon EOS. However there is the possibility of mounting the MF Nikkors and Zeiss ZF sets (As well as other lenses like Leica/Contax) on the Birger/EOS mount with an adapter but it's a question of personal comfort with the precision of that arrangement.

Construction?
The MF Nikkor uber set is by far the toughest of the bunch, time (& war) tested they're practically indestructable. The Zeiss ZFs are very well built as well but don't yet have the track record. The Nikon AFS Zooms come in third just edging out the EOS lenses because not all of them are "L" series and dust sealed.

Character?
We'll this is subjective, but were assumimg all these lenses are sharp so I'm talking about feeling not resolution...
Zeiss primes- Neutral color, crispy edge, high contrast.
Nikkor MF primes- Slight warm bias, medium edge, medium high contrast
Nikkor AFS Zooms- Slight primary bias, medium edge, high contrast
EOS Primes & Zooms- Slight secondary bias, soft edge, medium contrast
By "primary" I mean the Nikkors tend to subtlely favor the RGB and by "Secondary" I mean the EOSs seem to favor the CMY.

Did I miss anything?

If so let me know.
So which did I choose? The Nikkor zooms and the Uber MF set, but I'm thinking about the ZFs as an investment:innocent: . I have no doubt that some producer will ask me for them no matter what else I've got.
Ok I'm done ranting:ranting2:

[Bruce Allen]

Excellent and very fascinating 4AM rant! Thanks Evin!

I totally agree - the Birger mount is looking good and has really changed the game, making Canon and Nikon AF-S lenses far more attractive.

Personally I'm going the used Nikon MF route - but then that's because it'll also work with my HV20 and SGpro. Also, my budget was more like $2500.

I'm interested in your 15mm 2.8 Nikkor choice - I thought you also liked the 14mm 2.8 Tamron (or Sigma?) as well?

By the way, if you want to test the Zeiss ZF lenses, you should talk to Ketch Rossi - he is getting some. He's a friendly guy - I'm sure he'd like to chat with you. And I have already offered you my lenses. So far, the collection is: 80-200 2.8 AF-D ($850 new), 50 1.4 ($100 used), 24 2.0 ($150 used) and a Peleng 8mm 3.5 ($100 used) ;)

I'd love to fill in the gaps more (and have plans for further weird and wonderful lens choices) but the funds are stretched... sigh.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

[Paul Hazlett]

well you have done it again Evin, thanks a whole lot!

because of you and your excellent post I have to look at these options
again!!

why cant you just post more fluff, that way I don't have to think so much.

[PaulClements]

Nice post Evin, and I agree that $3000 has always really been my cut off point before going cine.


Another one to consider is a Cooke 20-100mm at that kind of price, but frankly the size and weight is the killer for me. I'd comprimise on that if it was the newer 18-100mm because it is colo(u)r matched to the S4's and would make an excellent playmate for renting those lenses alongside it. But that's about $10k minimum so you're beginning to get into serious lens expense on that.


The ZF's certainly have something about them, they have a look, feel and quality to them that would make them look disturbingly attractive strapped onto a RedOne. Like you say there is the 'Zeiss' factor that removes producers from immediately thinking still lenses, by comparison telling them you have Nikkor lenses might make some turn their noses up a little, which is unfortunate. One thing i would be interested to know Evin, is how well do the ZF compare to their cine counterparts? Put a ZF up against an equivalent Zeiss Cine prime and what differences become apparent? IF there was a significant comparison between the two, in terms of colo(u)r matching and aesthetic, then this would be another great advantage.


I look forward to a Leica M mount being announced. A Summicron set would be beautiful to work with, but would be quite a bit over the $3000 budget. A quick price check for $3000 you could probably get a 35,50,90 set. But I'd love to have that 50mm Noctilux at my disposal, I could imagine strapping that badboy on and shooting an entire feature at 50mm just for the fun of it lol.


Again nice post Evin, thanks.

[PaulClements]

Going back to my second point about the Zeiss ZF matching their Cine counterparts to what extent:

"ZF lenses incorporate new technical advances from the Zeiss Ultra Prime, Master Prime and DigiPrime lenses for motion picture cameras."

Not entirely sure what this entails but I guess they can't be too far off. I'm sure many would be hard pressed to spot a difference side by side.

Evin, am I correct in saying that the ZF are all manual? Obviously this would mean the Birger mount wouldn't work with them, resulting in the old problems of manual focus on still lenses rearing its ugly head again.

[Damien Molineaux]

Very comprehensive account of still lens options.

Thank you Evin.

Yes the Zeiss ZF are very attractive.

But now that I've invested in Nikon glass I'll stick to that for the time being and save for some Red lenses when the time comes.

Cheers,
Damien

[Sean]

Have you noticed good MF Nikon primes going up in value over the past year or so?

[Evin Grant]

Have you noticed good MF Nikon primes going up in value over the past year or so?

Some. The good ones are just starting to become rare. You can still find deals if you are patient.

[Evin Grant]

Going back to my second point about the Zeiss ZF matching their Cine counterparts to what extent:

"ZF lenses incorporate new technical advances from the Zeiss Ultra Prime, Master Prime and DigiPrime lenses for motion picture cameras."

Not entirely sure what this entails but I guess they can't be too far off. I'm sure many would be hard pressed to spot a difference side by side.

Evin, am I correct in saying that the ZF are all manual? Obviously this would mean the Birger mount wouldn't work with them, resulting in the old problems of manual focus on still lenses rearing its ugly head again.

You are correct, the primary difference will probably be in breathing.

[PaulClements]

I recall Sanjin's breathing test on the 85mm didn't show a great deal. I could be incorrect though. Anyone know of any other tests done on these lenses? I'm sure that given they share common factors with their cine cousins the topic of their use as cine lenses must have arisen.

[Evin Grant]

From the samples I've seen on the web I get the feeling that the lenses are very good but there does'nt seem to be any huge difference between the Ziess ZF and the equivilent Nikkor or EOS lenses. And I don't see cinema glass, at least lenses other that the Master primes as being optically any better than moden still lenses. And to some extent you might not want a lens that draws so crisply, the Cooke S4 series was designed to resolve very well but not be "Too sharp" becasue it's not flattering to peoples faces.
I've shot hundreds of people at 4K+ with my Nikkors and I know what to expect.

[PaulClements]

I'm curious about getting sharp focus at 4k and when scaling to 2k see the edge get taken off of it a bit. I think it might work very nicely.

You can always take sharpness away in post, adding it isn't so great. It comes down to the purist point of view though doesn't it. Getting the look and feel at capture or post.

[KETCH ROSSi]

Hey Evin,
as Bruce said I have the first part of the ZEISS ZF set that includes the 25, 50 and 85mm, the 100mm is in order, I'm testing this lenses with my XH-A1 coupled with the M2 complete with FF.

If you like we can make a day with our gear and try the lenses out.

I'm currently in final script development and preproduction for a film, so could be great to see the options tested.

Ciao,

KETCH ROSSI
www.KETCHFRAME.com

[Evin Grant]

Love to, PM me.

[Jaime Vallés]

I have the first part of the ZEISS ZF set that includes the 25, 50 and 85mm, the 100mm is in order, I'm testing this lenses with my XH-A1 coupled with the M2 complete with FF.
I just read that the Zeiss ZF lenses have a great focus ring with a lot of travel for better manual focusing. Can you tell us how the focusing feels on your lenses?

I'm hoping that with Redrock drive gears strapped on, these lenses might have enough focus travel to get away with. I'm torn at this point between manual focus Zeiss ZF prime lenses with the plain vanilla Nikon mount from RED, and AF-S Nikon zooms with the Birger Nikon mount. The Birger mount should eliminate any short focus throw problems, but I really like the idea of using those Zeiss ZF lenses with a standard follow focus unit for precise manual focusing.

Zeiss ZF 25mm f2.8 - $787
Zeiss ZF 35mm f2 - $787
Zeiss ZF 50mm f1.4 - $492
Zeiss ZF 85mm f1.4 - $984
RED Nikon F mount - $500
Redrock Micro Follow Focus - $500
GRAND TOTAL - $4050

Nikon 17-35mm f2.8D ED-IF AF-S - $1480
Nikon 28-70mm f2.8 ED-IF AF-S - $1435
Birger Nikon Electronic mount w/ Follow Focus - $1400
GRAND TOTAL - $4315

The prices for both sets is comparable, and the focal ranges are similar (Zeiss prime goes more telephoto, Nikon zoom goes wider). The Zeiss lenses are faster, and have the brand name recognition. The Nikon zooms have greater versatility with regards to focal lengths. The Birger mount can control the focus and exposure electronically of the zoom lenses. The Zeiss lenses are much lighter weight and shorter, and are very well constructed with no plastic.

Based on all this, a big deciding factor is whether the Zeiss lenses can be focused easily using a regular follow-focus unit. If they can, then I'd almost rather go with them than with AF-S lenses operated electronically. What do you think?

[Evin Grant]

I tried the 85mm ZF at Samy's it was very stiff. Focus travel seemed to be about 180º or so. About the same as AI Nikkors. My issue was how stiff it was. You would definately need to have it loosened or lubricated by a technician to be useable on a follow focus, but it could have just been that particular lens. Sample variation in all. Ketch, how do yours feel?

[Jaime Vallés]

OK, now I'm second-guessing myself. Paul brought up the Cooke 20-100 PL lens. I hadn't realized that it can be found used for around $3000. This makes me really uncertain about the whole still-lens route. Industry standard, little breathing, good range, excellent focusing, top-notch brand name.

Shit.

Still, I worry about buying a used zoom that's been discontinued. For $3000, which is the better buy: brand new SLR
lenses designed for a digital sensor, or a used Cooke 20-100? Thoughts?

[Evin Grant]

I have no doubts that modern DSLR still lens will outperform an 80s vintage Cooke super zoom. And who knows what the CA will be like on a sensor. That is also one hell of a big piece of glass, don't expect to do any steadi-cam or handheld with a beast like that. Also do you have at least an O'connor 1030s or Sachtler 7+7 to put it on?

[Jaime Vallés]

Thanks, Evin! Yeah, I didn't think about the weight and size of the thing. And I assumed a modern-day still lens will actually look better than a 40 year old zoom. I'll wait and see what others report once cameras start shipping (I don't get mine until December) and figure it out then.

[chuck colburn]

I have no doubts that modern DSLR still lens will outperform an 80s vintage Cooke super zoom. And who knows what the CA will be like on a sensor. That is also one hell of a big piece of glass, don't expect to do any steadi-cam or handheld with a beast like that. Also do you have at least an O'connor 1030s or Sachtler 7+7 to put it on?

Hi Evin,

But then again there is something to be said for a lens that can be adjusted for spot on tracking, much better control over focus shift, minimal backlash in the footage and zoom controls, and a more consistent resolution through out the focal length range.

Chuck

[Jaime Vallés]

Speaking of the Zeiss ZF lenses, check out this (http://www.zeiss.com/c12567a8003b58b9/Contents-Frame/be1f5216686fd0b5c1257118005d1d24) link, where Zeiss big-shots talk about why these lenses will be good for Cinematography. Granted, they're biased, so testing is necessary to determine if they speak the truth. I'm pasting the relevant passage below:

CLN: And why would they prefer Zeiss ZF to Nikon?
Müller: I see two reasons.
First because they know that with Zeiss lenses they will get state-of-the-art image quality, technically and aesthetically. They will recognize that ZF lenses come with much larger rotation angles for the focus rings, like the cinematography lenses we make for Hollywood. This means that focusing can be performed much more accurately than with designs optimized for photojournalistic work.

I can't wait to try these lenses out on RED!

[Evin Grant]

Hi Evin,

But then again there is something to be said for a lens that can be adjusted for spot on tracking, much better control over focus shift, minimal backlash in the footage and zoom controls, and a more consistent resolution through out the focal length range.

Chuck

I'm not sure that is true with the Birgers and the AFS/EOS L lesnes. Erik has stated in another thread that Nikons backlash control on the AFS lenses was "superb". And as far as tracking, well that remains to be seen but the Bourne Ultimatum guys seemed to think they were OK. To be honest I really think todays hi end still lenses are made to every bit as exacting standards as cinema lenses. But the technology and demand make the prices more affordable. If Cooke sold 110,000 18-100s they would be 2K each. Incedentaly that is how many Nikon 28-70 f2.8 AFS lenses have been made. All of this needs to be tested though to know for sure.

[Eddie]

Now that the budget bar is raised to 4000$ i would say:

birger nikon mount & ff 1400$
tokina 16-50mm f/2.8 pro dx 650$
tokina 50-135mm f/2.8 pro dx 650$
+ used primes in good condition
Sigma 30mm f/1.4 ex hsm 450$
nikon 50mm f/1.4 ais 200$
nikon 85mm f/1.4 ais 550$

Grand total 3900$

which leaves you about 100$ for Carl Zeiss contact lenses, to talk about with your producer...:w00t:

[Evin Grant]

Those Tokinas are not AFS/HSM so they may not work on the Birgers. As far as we know it will only support integral motor lenses, not screw drive. Although Erik said he was looking into it.

[Teague Kennedy]

Evin, is the Sigma AFS? Can it be controlled by Birger mount? I need as wide as possible.

Thanks

[Evin Grant]

Yes, but only the HSM (Hyper Sonic Motor) lenses.

[KETCH ROSSi]

I just read that the Zeiss ZF lenses have a great focus ring with a lot of travel for better manual focusing. Can you tell us how the focusing feels on your lenses?

I'm hoping that with Redrock drive gears strapped on, these lenses might have enough focus travel to get away with. I'm torn at this point between manual focus Zeiss ZF prime lenses with the plain vanilla Nikon mount from RED, and AF-S Nikon zooms with the Birger Nikon mount. The Birger mount should eliminate any short focus throw problems, but I really like the idea of using those Zeiss ZF lenses with a standard follow focus unit for precise manual focusing.

Zeiss ZF 25mm f2.8 - $787
Zeiss ZF 35mm f2 - $787
Zeiss ZF 50mm f1.4 - $492
Zeiss ZF 85mm f1.4 - $984
RED Nikon F mount - $500
Redrock Micro Follow Focus - $500
GRAND TOTAL - $4050

Nikon 17-35mm f2.8D ED-IF AF-S - $1480
Nikon 28-70mm f2.8 ED-IF AF-S - $1435
Birger Nikon Electronic mount w/ Follow Focus - $1400
GRAND TOTAL - $4315

The prices for both sets is comparable, and the focal ranges are similar (Zeiss prime goes more telephoto, Nikon zoom goes wider). The Zeiss lenses are faster, and have the brand name recognition. The Nikon zooms have greater versatility with regards to focal lengths. The Birger mount can control the focus and exposure electronically of the zoom lenses. The Zeiss lenses are much lighter weight and shorter, and are very well constructed with no plastic.

Based on all this, a big deciding factor is whether the Zeiss lenses can be focused easily using a regular follow-focus unit. If they can, then I'd almost rather go with them than with AF-S lenses operated electronically. What do you think?

This lenses are just fantastic, the focus is great I have used them with the full production set from REDROCK, focusing is very very smood.
I will test this lenses as soon as I get together with Evin, I do have very good pictures but aving problems with my new computers for upload, but be sure this are fantastic lenses.

Ciao,
KETCH ROSSI

[Emanuel A.]

Ciao Ketch,

Breathing?

E.

[KETCH ROSSi]

Ciao Ketch,

Breathing?

E.

Ciao Emanuel,

yes I'm, just preoccupied with a couple of projects in Pre.

[Jaime Vallés]

Ciao Emanuel,

yes I'm, just preoccupied with a couple of projects in Pre.
Heheh... Ketch, I think you misunderstood Emanuel. I believe he was asking if the Zeiss ZF lenses breathe a lot when changing focus.

But it sure is nice to know that you yourself are actually breathing! :biggrin:

[KETCH ROSSi]

Ohh,

yes I'm but I'm almost positive the ZEISS are not, they are as beutifully machined as the big brothers, not as impressive in size but still stunning crisp and warm in the images they produce.

Hey, thanks for making me understand, you know Italian and all I do speak the lenguage but some times the under line sleeps away from me.

Ciao,
KEYCH ROSSI

[Paolo Tinari]

Oh dont tell me, when my underline fall asleep there's no way to wake her up

[KETCH ROSSi]

I'm not sure I understand what you are tring to say Paolo.

Ma se parli italiano me lo puoi spiegare meglio.

Ciao,
KETCH ROSSI

[Paolo Tinari]

Ciao ketch,
no, nulla, mi ha fatto sorridere quello che ho ritenuto un errore di battitura. L'underline che si addormenta (sleep) invece di scivolare (slip).

[KETCH ROSSi]

Ho capito, si di solito faccio sorridere coloro che mi sono vicini, o quelli lontano come te.

Ciao.

PS: se vuoi mandami un PM, tu sei attivato? Spero finire presto qui e tornare definitivamente in Italia, piu' che probabile vicino Roma.

[Paolo Tinari]

Ho capito, si di solito faccio sorridere coloro che mi sono vicini, o quelli lontano come te.

Ciao.

PS: se vuoi mandami un PM, tu sei attivato? Spero finire presto qui e tornare definitivamente in Italia, piu' che probabile vicino Roma.

Bene, ti aspetto. Facciamo la nouvelle vague.
p.

[KETCH ROSSi]

Okay, ma credo con con 4 RED potremmo fare molto di piu.

Oh, I like your site, surprise about the content of the brief case, but cool, very cool.

Ciao.

[Emanuel A.]

Sei. Ecco, un altro romano. :)

[KETCH ROSSi]

Io sono sardo, cresciuto a Firenze e Stati Uniti, va be' anche un po' in Messico, con tanta voglia di rimpatriare, presto.

Ciao.

[albert rudnicki]

I own the 2 zeiss zf (50, 85)
Very good glass, I have tested them on redrocmicro adapter with much satisfaction.
There is one important advantage over nikons:
They are all color matched.

Cheers
Albert
www.yayofilms.com

[KETCH ROSSi]

I have the 25,50 and 85, to me they fill much smoother and have a greather focus travel, also I use them with the M2 on a XH-A1, but Matt Garret will borrow them with a novoflex adapter for a still shoot with a Canon camera, will also see His resolts.

Ciao

[Roberto B]

yeah yeah ketch.. let us take a look and show it..

[Matt Garrett]

I could do some quick tests with them while i have them with the sgpro and throw up some quicktimes.

[marasco ivan]

from the zeiss department:
"Dear Sir,

Thank you for your inquiry and interest in our products.

As an actual fact, we are planning to expand the ZF series in the wide angle lens area but have not
a concrete date yet.


Best regards

Filomena Moore

[KETCH ROSSi]

I know much talk and no show, but I'm working on 3 different projects in various stages of development.

And to topped off I just listed all my video gear on DVXuser, XH-A1, M2 system, Cavision matte box, manfrotto tripod system, and DTE for XL-H1

But I still have the ZEISS, so something to post soon, me or Matt, to hum I'm lending for a few days.
Ciao,

KETCH ROSSI

[Zack Birlew]

from the zeiss department:
"Dear Sir,

Thank you for your inquiry and interest in our products.

As an actual fact, we are planning to expand the ZF series in the wide angle lens area but have not
a concrete date yet.


Best regards

Filomena Moore

Argh! You had to post that!? I was so ready to go Zeiss!:waaa:

<---- likes to film wide

Guess I'll have to go with a Nikon zoom set or *gulp* look at the RED lenses...:sick:

[Jaime Vallés]

Argh! You had to post that!? I was so ready to go Zeiss!:waaa:

<---- likes to film wide

Guess I'll have to go with a Nikon zoom set or *gulp* look at the RED lenses...:sick:
Yeah, I'd love it if the Zeiss ZF lens set included something in the 14mm to 17mm range. It's the only part of the "typical" cinema range that's not covered by them yet.

Nikon does make the 14mm f2.8 lens, for around $1400. If Zeiss hasn't come out with their own version by the time I'm buying lenses, I'll have to go with the Nikon one. I need me some wideness!!!!!

[Roberto B]

why not a mix between zooms.. canon or nikon.. where you can have the widest end.. and these zeiss ones for shallow DOF?

[HD Hildebrand]

why not a mix between zooms.. canon or nikon.. where you can have the widest end.. and these zeiss ones for shallow DOF?

I don't think swapping out mounts in the field is going to be as easy and practical as some speculate.

[Roberto B]

so, buy the birger canon mount.. plus a nikon to canon adapter and you should be fine.. best way in my humble opinion..

[albert rudnicki]

You can have a canon mount on the red, and then use a canon to nikon adapter.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?shs=canon+nikon+adapter&ci=0&sb=ps&pn=1&sq=desc&InitialSearch=yes&O=RootPage.jsp&A=search&Q=*&bhs=t

[albert rudnicki]

or this
http://cgi.ebay.com/Nikon-AF-lens-to-Canon-EOS-20D-30D-5D-350D-400D-adapter_W0QQitemZ180152135747QQihZ008QQcategoryZ30 059QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Matt Garrett]

http://www.mushyproductions.com/zeiss.mov
quick breathing test of ketch's 25mm and 85mm zeiss lenses.

[KETCH ROSSi]

Nice, love le litlle tune,

Thanks for geting orround on doing some test with this lenses.

After tonight's shoot let me know if you like the extended focusing area of this lenses and the solid feel to it, but mostly the color corrected images they produce.

Believe your test was done with your pana+SgPro.

Ciao,
KETCH ROSSI
wwe.KETCHFRAME.com

[Matt Garrett]

Yes, test was shot on my hvx+sgpro combo. Not cc'ed or anything because i'm just looking at the breathing.
the 25 had a 360° turn i think but a lot of that was macro it seemed.
I'm definitely looking forward to shooting still with these.

[KETCH ROSSi]

Yes the range of this lenses it very nice, well enjoy the shoot and... pleas take good care of my two little ones.

Ciao,
KETCH ROSSI
www.KETCHFRAME.com

[Evin Grant]

Nice image, but definately no better than the Nikkors for breathing. Especially compared to the AFS Zooms. The colors seem very neutral.

[KETCH ROSSi]

Hi Evin,

this lenses are great ones, the 85mm, my favorite (almost as the 100mm Macro) but to trully see any differences in comparason we should definately get together with the same focal lents and speed in the 3 brands most interest me, Nikor, Canon L and Zeiss ZF.

I'm in list for the new 1Ds Mark III, so I like to have the best lens for this monster of a machine.

As far as for RED I love to see a Master Prime, Cooke and RED compared with the above slr lenses, knoing that you can only cover 35mm & not s35 with the SLR lenses.

Ciao,
KETCH ROSSI
www.KETCHFRAME.com

[Michael Hastings]

As far as for RED I love to see a Master Prime, Cooke and RED compared with the above slr lenses, knoing that you can only cover 35mm & not s35 with the SLR lenses.

Ciao,
KETCH ROSSI
www.KETCHFRAME.com

why wouldn't slr lenses cover s35?

s35 is 24.89 mm × 18.66 = 31.11 diagonal
slr is 36 x 24 = 43.26 diagonal

The only problem might be with EF-S (or Nikon DX) lenses
APS-C dslr (canon eos 40d) is 22.2 x 14.8mm

[KETCH ROSSi]

See, this was exactly what I told the guys at Canon, but prbably they miss understood my question or I miss understood there answer.

Please to know it is not the case, I sure hope to get Motion Picture Lenses for my RED's but at list I have solid choices of smaller wayyy cheaper good lenses.

I love what you do, leaved in Cancun, Cabo and Costa Smeralda Italy, great waters great photographic locations, almost forgaten( Isla Mujeres)

Ciao,

KETCH ROSSI
www.KETCHFRAME.com

[Evin Grant]

I have a D3 on order, but I suspect all of these lenses will perform just fine, it'll be much more about how well each system works and interates into a traditional film shooting style. The new Birgers+AF lenses offer some very attractive features even when compared to traditional cinema lenses. Hopefully I will be able to really put all of these through their paces at the LART in October.

[KETCH ROSSi]

The D3 seems a very nice camera, and unlike many witch say Canon it is the king of slr, I say I love Canon and I know the camera in/out and love the L lenses so no reason for me to change brand, but when you get yours I would still love to play with it and let you play with my 1Ds Mark III.

The Birger mount is definitely on my try list from before all my Canon L lenses were stolen and it still it is, it could be great to have a supreme set of Canon L lenses for the 1Ds3 and my RED's.

We should see.

Ciao,
KETCH ROSSI
www.KETCHFRAME.com