I need opinions on the Dalsa 4K rehoused Leica lenses?

[Lenny Manfred]

Has anyone had the chance to work or play with the Dalsa 4k rehoused Leica lenses? Has anyone put them on a RED ONE? I would love to hear some intelligent opinions...

[Tonaci Tran]

http://www.alangordon.com/DALSA/DALSA_Custom_Lenses.html

4K Prime 19mm T2.8 $8,500.00
4K Prime 24mm T2.8 $6,500.00
4K Prime 28mm T2.8 $6,500.00
4K Prime 35mm T1.4 $6,500.00
4K Prime 50mm T1.4 $7,500.00
4K Prime 80mm T1.4 $7,500.00
4K Prime 100mm T2.8 $6,500.00
4K Prime 180mm T2 $12,500.00

Alan Gordon picked up Dalsa's remaining cam gear inventory.

One thing I wonder is if the lenses would in fact cover FF35 since they are rehoused still lenses. Its a pipe dream, but it would be cool if the whole set was T1.4 across the board.

Yo Lenny, why don't you bring your RED over to Alan Gordon to take them for a test run?

[David (dudi) Namir]

I have the VAN DIEMEN Leica conversion.
Great lenses!!!!
The only problem is the aperture is not the same on all of them. Experienced DP knows how to deal with them.
They cover super 35mm and have a very unique look.

[Sanjin Jukic]

Probably these rehoused Leica-R lenses are the best cine lenses you can get at the market now.

AGEI is also selling original Leica-R "non-rehoused" set here>>> (http://www.alangordon.com/DALSA/DALSA_Leica_Lenses_List.html)

"The DALSA 4K custom lenses are PL mounted and designed by renowned Panavision lens designer Dan Sasaki,
machined and built by Eric Peterson also a Panavision alumnus. Sasaki followed the industry practice of purchasing
lenses from still camera manufacturers such as Canon, Leica & Nikon. He then removed and remounted the glass into
custom designed, machined and cinematography optimized lens barrels. At the same time he optimized the lens placement
for the best possible coverage of the focal plane and best image quality.

These custom DALSA 4K lenses we're offering were made from a variety of Leica lenses that were prepared by Dan Sasaki
for integration into the range of 4K lenses he built for DALSA. Dan was able to implement the design ideas he had been thinking about for years.

The result was a group of lenses that covered the DALSA image sensor (about the size of a Vista Vision frame) with consistent corner to corner,
edge to edge, premium image quality. Usually exceeding 200 line pairs per millimeter of resolution and with a pleasing contrast and color rendition.

All lenses are NEW or like new and are being offered at less than half their re-engineered cost."

LINK>>> (http://www.alangordon.com/DALSA/DALSA_Custom_Lenses.html)

Also I owe whole set (original Leica-R still lenses) and I'm proud of it.

Have a look at some of samples shot on my RED1:

http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/RED_LEICA50mmSumimiluxR1-4at5-6a.jpg

Shot on RED1 with Leica-R Summilux 50mm f/1.4>>4K tiff 48MB>>> (http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/RED_LEICA50mmSumimiluxR1-4at5-6.tiff)

http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/Macro_CS_01.JPG

Shot on RED1 with Leica-R Summilux 50mm f/1.4>>4K jpg>>> (http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/Macro_CS_01_4K.JPG)

http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/A005_C063_0925SE_00000.jpg
Shot on RED1 with Leica-R 19mm f/2.8 @ f4, IMS mount, distance to the focused (Genelec loudspeaker) object 1m.

http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/A005_C064_092592_00000.jpg
Shot on RED1 with Leica-R 24mm f/2.8 @ f4, IMS mount, distance to the focused object (Genelec loudspeaker) 1m.

[Sanjin Jukic]

One thing I wonder is if the lenses would in fact cover FF35 since they are rehoused still lenses. Its a pipe dream, but it would be cool if the whole set was T1.4 across the board.



It's impossible to get speed about f/1.4 and less at some of FF35mm focal sizes but for S35mm sizes are much easier just because the image circle is much smaller.

That's all connected to the limitations of lens optical physics.

[Brian D. Goff]

the flower, oh no, not the flower again:)

Shoot all leica with my RED and am very happy with the results.

I'm using original Leica stills with our adapter and gears. The rehoused ones are at least as good if not better.

[Sanjin Jukic]

the flower, oh no, not the flower again:)

Shoot all leica with my RED and am very happy with the results.

I'm using original Leica stills with our adapter and gears. The rehoused ones are at least as good if not better.

Bria,

unfortunately you can't shoot Leica-M lenses like me on my RED1 even the flowers that you don't like so much...:reddevil:

[Lenny Manfred]

thanks for the info (i did go to Alan Gordon, that is why i was asking), i just wanted to hear if someone had actually worked with these particular Dalsa 4k lenses. Tonaci, i don't have a RED anymore to be able to test (thinking of getting one again soon), otherwise i would have, Alan gordon is walking distance from my house.

[Florian Stadler]

They are very good lenses. The white cyc part of this spot:
[URL="http://www.florianstadler.com/Media/greenpeace.mov"]
was shot on these and Dalsa Origin. As far as the image circle goes I don't know what it covers, the Dalsa sensor was only marginally bigger than Super 35mm. I did a side to side with a 50mm Masterprime for a test and the masterprime was sharper and less flare prone.

[Karl Gustav H.]

There are some interesting comments on the Dalsa Leica set by Mitch Gross of Abel Cine Tech on here.

Worth your while searching for them.

[Sanjin Jukic]

They are very good lenses. The white cyc part of this spot:
[URL="http://www.florianstadler.com/Media/greenpeace.mov"]
was shot on these and Dalsa Origin. As far as the image circle goes I don't know what it covers, the Dalsa sensor was only marginally bigger than Super 35mm. I did a side to side with a 50mm Masterprime for a test and the masterprime was sharper and less flare prone.

Leica-R lenses are definitely better then Carls Zeiss Master Primes for Arriflex just because there are all FF35mm glass and if you a bit know the lens physics then....

With smaller image circle you can do a lot of things in terms of speed,...

If you like Panavision Primo L lens set just take them and they are similar in image quality, color renderings and picture sharpness,...

Master Primes are right now facing extreme competition from Cooke 5i prime set and also Ilumina Russian fast lens set that solve some of back-draws found in MPs.

"Perfecto-logy" of Carls Zeiss Master Primes for Arriflex is just a newbie build lens myth like a phenomenon that is now pretty close to get over.

[Florian Stadler]

Leica-R lenses are definitely better then Carls Zeiss Master Primes for Arriflex just because there are all FF35mm glass and if you a bit know the lens physics then....


That is an unqualified and unsupported statement. I have compared the Masterprime 50mm and the Dalsa 50mm side to side (both cover the full Dalsa sensor btw as far as image circle goes 50mm and up are always bigger) and the Master Prime was clearly sharper and less flare prone. If that makes the lens "better" is a matter of taste and opinion. You are confused about what FF35mm means optically.

[Matt Uhry]

These lenses were one of optics whiz-kid Dan Sasaki's projects while away from Panavision for 2 years 2007-2009, the barrels design looks quite similar to Panavisions. I imagine the mechanics are too which would be good.

In a FF35 world maybe these Dalsa's or the Van Diemen's might be the ultimate set? When I first heard about the sets becoming available I was tempted, but it's hard to see how the economics would work out - cost vs. potential income in rentals looks a little thin compared to the Redprimes / Tokina 11-16 combination we have going now. I don't think you would ever be able to rent the Leica's more often or for more money. If you just want something cool, have excess cash and think Leica shits gold then you should go for it.

Anyone know what happened to the 1.25x anamorphics that Dalsa made ?

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

[Sanjin Jukic]

That is an unqualified and unsupported statement. I have compared the Masterprime 50mm and the Dalsa 50mm side to side (both cover the full Dalsa sensor btw as far as image circle goes 50mm and up are always bigger) and the Master Prime was clearly sharper and less flare prone. If that makes the lens "better" is a matter of taste and opinion. You are confused about what FF35mm means optically.



:attention9ha:

http://web.me.com/ducloslenses/DataRef/ImgCir_files/Picture%201.jpg

"Lens Image Circle Database

Zeiss Master Prime

- 16mm has Image Circle/Diameter ∅ 34mm
- 25mm has Image Circle/Diameter ∅ 35mm
- 32mm has Image Circle/Diameter ∅ 36mm
- 50mm has Image Circle/Diameter ∅ 40mm
- 75mm has Image Circle/Diameter ∅ 42+mm
- 100mm has Image Circle/Diameter ∅ 42+mm

.....


Zeiss Compact Prime (same as ZF)

- 18mm has Image Circle/Diameter ∅ 43+mm
- 21mm has Image Circle/Diameter ∅ 43+mm
- 25mm has Image Circle/Diameter ∅ 43+mm
- 35mm has Image Circle/Diameter ∅ 43+mm
- 50mm has Image Circle/Diameter ∅ 43+mm
- 50mm (macro) has Image Circle/Diameter ∅ 43+mm
- 85mm has Image Circle/Diameter ∅ 43+mm
- 100mm has Image Circle/Diameter ∅ 43+mm"

LINK>>> (http://web.me.com/ducloslenses/DataRef/ImgCir.html)

As we can see from above that 50mm MP has 40mm Image Circle/Diameter ∅

and 50mm Zeiss Compact prime has Image Circle/Diameter ∅ 43+mm.

All Zeiss Compact primes and Leica-R lenses are FF35mm and have Image Circle/Diameter ∅ 43+mm.

To read and also learn more about lens optical design I can recommend these links below:

- High Speed Lenses by Erwin Puts>>> (http://www.imx.nl/photo/technique/technique/hslenses.html)

- Reflections on current optical designs by Erwin Puts>>> (http://www.imx.nl/photo/optics/optics/page61.html)

- Lens testing and lens design in the digital age by Erwin Puts>>> (http://www.imx.nl/photo/optics/optics/page63.html)

- Leica's Three generations of optical design: Berek, Mandler, Kolsch>>> (http://www.imx.nl/photo/optics/optics/page93.html)

[Steve G]

The thing with lens charts, is that there is on the bench measurements and facts, and then there is the "real world". So much of how a lens performs is to do with how it is used on a shoot.

If florian (who clearly has a lot of actual practical experience) did a side by side test, and he found that for him, the master prime was sharper, then that is his perception. It is also the perception of a lot of dop's. Different lens sets have their own individual looks. That's the great thing about having choice.

Leica lens are good, but the set doesn't have a consistent f stop. That can be an issue for some, including very experienced dop's.

[Fredrik Callinggard]

Master Primes are right now facing extreme competition from Cooke 5i prime set and also Ilumina Russian fast lens set that solve some of back-draws found in MPs.

"Perfecto-logy" of Carls Zeiss Master Primes for Arriflex is just a newbie build lens myth like a phenomenon that is now pretty close to get over.

I'm curious in these statements Sanjin?

To start with HAVE YOU EVER actually held and/or used a Master Prime? Or more importantly, tested one/ compared against the other lenses you're referring to (including Leica) in a lens projector and/or a MTF machine?

Have you done breathing tests etc.

Also, knowing Russian lenses EXTREMELY well. I'd like to see where the competition between Illumina and MP's exist?

As for the Cooke 5i - we don't even know yet since they've only been announced and we haven't seen any actual results yet. Most probably they're amazing (and I will love them) but the image circle on these lenses is said to be 30mm, which would (my guess) put them around 32 for 18mm and upwards and 39mm at around 50mm focal range.

And what are the "back draws" that the Illumina's solve, that's found in the MP's?

[Matthew Duclos]

Lennywood, tell Wayne I said hi. ;)

[Robert Horwell]

Has anyone had the chance to work or play with the Dalsa 4k rehoused Leica lenses? Has anyone put them on a RED ONE? I would love to hear some intelligent opinions...

Hi Lenny,

I have a set of the Van Diemen Leicas, i am very happy with them. The contrast ratios are fantastic. When i have been using them for a while and i start a new job with different glass, it is the first thing i notice ( contrast ratios ) . The images they produce feel very clean, very sharp, but not too sharp if you get my meaning. They are not like zeiss, more like a hybrid of the best French and English glass, they have that slight romanticism of the cookes and the quirkiness of the angenieux. Warm, contrasty, nice fall off.

Hope this helps.

[Florian Stadler]

:attention9ha:


To read and also learn more about lens optical design I can recommend these links below:

- High Speed Lenses by Erwin Puts>>> (http://www.imx.nl/photo/technique/technique/hslenses.html)

- Reflections on current optical designs by Erwin Puts>>> (http://www.imx.nl/photo/optics/optics/page61.html)

- Lens testing and lens design in the digital age by Erwin Puts>>> (http://www.imx.nl/photo/optics/optics/page63.html)

- Leica's Three generations of optical design: Berek, Mandler, Kolsch>>> (http://www.imx.nl/photo/optics/optics/page93.html)

While your re-listing of Matt's Database is marginally relevant to the discussion here your links are absolutely irrelevant to the topic at hand. Certainly not material to get school-masterly about.

[Mitch Gross]

I believe my comments about the Dalsa lenses were over at Cinematography.com, not here. Yes, I have sme of Dan's lenses, although I'm not sure if the guts are from Leica or somewhere else (actually I've plain forgotten).

The Leicas are beautiful with a wonderful personality to them. That said they are also not quite as sharp as Master Primes and less flare resistant. ut some may prefer the look.

Anyone who buys that set for that money likely knows what he/she is getting and therefore will be quite satisfied. I wouldn't enter into it blindly, but I wouldn't be afraid of it either.

[Lenny Manfred]

yes, this helps very much, thanks.


Hi Lenny,

I have a set of the Van Diemen Leicas, i am very happy with them. The contrast ratios are fantastic. When i have been using them for a while and i start a new job with different glass, it is the first thing i notice ( contrast ratios ) . The images they produce feel very clean, very sharp, but not too sharp if you get my meaning. They are not like zeiss, more like a hybrid of the best French and English glass, they have that slight romanticism of the cookes and the quirkiness of the angenieux. Warm, contrasty, nice fall off.

Hope this helps.

[Tonaci Tran]

It's impossible to get speed about f/1.4 and less at some of FF35mm focal sizes but for S35mm sizes are much easier just because the image circle is much smaller.

That's all connected to the limitations of lens optical physics.

The Canon K-35s are the closest thing minus the 18mm, with the 24mm, 35, 55 and 85 all covering ff35. I wouldn't say its impossible, rather too expensive perhaps to justify making a wide 18mm super speed with ff35 coverage.

[David (dudi) Namir]

I have a set of Leica Van Diemen, all color matched for VFG.
Consider selling it for the right price. Supposes to cover 5K.
Please see the photos.

[Jamshed Mahmood]

Lennywood, tell Wayne I said hi. ;)

Hi Mathew first of all i want to thank u for making Tokina 11-16mm PL conversion really saved us in lot of hand held Red shoots and 5d shoots. very small agile brilliant move.

sir I'm thinking of buying a lens package and i already own s4/i set but i got 3 cameras 2 film cameras and one epic. i need at least one more set of lenses. i love Panavision look nice smooth not too sharp like Master primes zeiss look ...but cooke panavision something like that...are these lens that good? are these lenses new ones re housed in to a new body or old lenses in a new body?

looking forward to ur opinion

thx again

[Jamshed Mahmood]

sir how r these lenses? i mean cooke type MP type? how do u describe these lenses. I'm really in love with leica glass and about to order these lenses but trying to research to c what people think.

thx

[Evin Grant]

Dude. Please don't resurect zombie threads from 2009. If you have a questin for Matt PM him.