Do i HAVE to get a MAC

[killfilm]

Hi,

i searched the forum and read many posts on the pc and mac issue. I dont wanna start a debate about that. Just wondering if i have to get a mac to use the red to its full potential, and will i be missing something if i dont.

thanks

[Joe Carney]

From the lack of answers from Red team, I would guess that something is in the works but they can't or won't talk about it. From the hisotry of this place if MS was a definite no I think they would have said so. They've had no problem in the past saying no to things. Considering that RedCine and Redcode are available on Windows, it may come down the the vendors (Adobe, Sony Vegas...) to make that happen. Even Apple still doesn't support Redcode quite yet, but don't use that as a measuring stick by any means.
Red team does listen, that is one thing you can count on.

[killfilm]

alright, and i did hear good things about the red team,

so please Jim and anybody at Red, we like choices and we wanna edit red footage on a pc just as convenient it is on a mac

thanks very much

[Roberto B]

yup .

[Chris Gearhart]

You don't HAVE to get a Mac. Dear heavens I hope not. But at least in the near term it will make things super easy and cool. I may just have to break down and sell my soul.

Did I say that? Red is making me think all upside down. Just promise me that if you see me write anything good about the White Sox you ban me. Brook? Jeff? Haak? Be my swimming buddies on this one.

[Häakon]

Brook? Jeff? Haak? Be my swimming buddies on this one.
Haha, it's actually funny this topic was brought up; I just bought my first Mac yesterday. I've used them a million times, of course, but I've never owned one. I figure that Final Cut is gonna be the way to go with Red, so I oughta get acquainted.

Erm... but we'll see just how long this lasts... let's just say I'm having issues. :-)

[Tom Lowe]

I will resist Mac with all my strength. What's the point in buying a $10,000 editing computer if I can't play video games on it? :)

[Chris Gearhart]

THANK you.

[RedHarry]

we wanna edit red footage on a pc just as convenient it is on a mac

That's like asking hell to freeze, convinience on a PC is just a dream and reality is a nightmare.

Harry
Digital 2-Pop productions

[killfilm]

my Quad core PC is very solid actually, as long as you know how to keep it clean and stable, you're fine, and i dont play video games either:biggrin:

[Häakon]

convenience on a PC is just a dream
That's funny... I'm still trying to figure out how to do something as simple as delete a file on my Mac! :) The delete key doesn't seem to do anything... and I certainly don't want to have to drag each file into the trash every time... can you shed some light on the subject, oh master of convenience? :unsure:

[Adrian Correia]

Haakon,

what were the specs on the system you purchased...trying to gauge it for myself for the fall...

[killfilm]

are you saying the bin is for trashing files:huh:

[Chris Gearhart]

That's funny... I'm still trying to figure out how to do something as simple as delete a file on my Mac! :) The delete key doesn't seem to do anything... and I certainly don't want to have to drag each file into the trash every time... can you shed some light on the subject, oh master of convenience? :unsure:

Sorry. He's busy dreaming about deleting files easily. He'll be back soon. :biggrin:

[Anders Holck]

Guess you are joking Häakon but:
Command+Backspace

It seems HUI testing proved that file destruction should not be available from a single key press.

[Chris Gearhart]

And they think two mouse buttons are too many.

[Tom Lowe]

Lol.....

[Häakon]

Guess you are joking Häakon but:
Command+Backspace

It seems HUI testing proved that file destruction should not be available from a single key press.
Oh you think I'm joking!

Silly me, I was pressing "delete" to delete my files, not "backspace." (I even tried apple+delete, shift+delete, alt+delete... see, I tried)! I had no idea what I really wanted to do was backspace them. Whew!

Okay, so one hurdle overcome. I'm just glad this OS is so user-friendly... :)

[GlennChan]

You don't have to get a Mac.

If your PC (or Mac) NLE can read quicktime files, then you can edit without transcoding (AFAIK). The camera will generate a quicktime proxy for each clip, with a 2k/1k/0.5k extraction... you load that into your NLE. It's real-time if your computer can playback that proxy in real-time.

FCP will allow you to adjust the image processing parameters of a clip from within FCP... so the integration is a small bonus there. On other NLEs, it will likely involve some roundtrip into Redcine... presumably you export an EDL into Redcine, and from there you can adjust how each clip is processed?

[killfilm]

thanks glenn, someone told me that when on a PC, then you gotta transcode the footage, which as you know could be a lengthy process from 4k to whatever format

[Chris Gearhart]

I don't think the camera automatically generates a QT wrapper. It has to be passed though a (quick but off-camera) program called REDquick first.

[killfilm]

so, the redquick generates a proxy from the camera files,

what format does the red write to then?

[Daniel Reichenbach]

That's funny... I'm still trying to figure out how to do something as simple as delete a file on my Mac! :) The delete key doesn't seem to do anything... and I certainly don't want to have to drag each file into the trash every time... can you shed some light on the subject, oh master of convenience? :unsure:

Go on the file you liked to delete and press this two buttons

http://supportdownload.apple.com/docs.info.apple.com/help/resources/Mac/10.4/German.lproj/gfx/modcm.gif +http://supportdownload.apple.com/docs.info.apple.com/help/resources/Mac/10.4/German.lproj/gfx/moddl.gif

Mac or PC? The MAC will win this game, not only because it is a powerfull computer but also, because RED is very macfriendly. And this for a good reason.

[wshultz]

If you gotta get a new computer, why NOT get a Mac when you could run either Windows OR OSX OR both on the same box. At least you have the option to change your mind.

[killfilm]

i actually owned a mac and ran parallels, but vegas dropped frames like crazy, and thats the most important app to me as it generates the most income from corporates and industrial videos.

it comes down to two choices, own both a mac and pc (bad for me)

or provide excellent support for red on a pc and wont have to buy a mac
(good for me)

[Chris Gearhart]

That's like saying that having the Cubs and WhiteSox in the same stadium means they are on the same team.

There can be only one.

[Anders Holck]

Oh you think I'm joking!
Sorry. I can see why it can seem counter intuitive for a Mac newcomer.
When I first started out using Mac, notably the endless modifier keys was so steep to learn.

I think the reason for the use of backspace, is that many Mac keyboards are missing the delete key.
http://myoldmac.net/Sellpicts/MacClassic.jpg

[Chris Gearhart]

so, the redquick generates a proxy from the camera files,

what format does the red write to then?

Their own brilliantly conceived wavelette-based media file(s). (The drives are FAT32 which means they are limited to 4 GB chunks, presumably.)

[Häakon]

I think the reason for the use of backspace, is that many Mac keyboards are missing the delete key.
http://myoldmac.net/Sellpicts/MacClassic.jpg
Interesting. I assume that's a pretty old model there, but looking at that pic I'm sure that's where it stems from. You learn something new every day!

I admit that most of my frustrations have to deal with the fact that the Mac does everything differently and I'm just not used to it. I'm not convinced that the Mac does them any better (like our previous example), but I have been a PC user for over 20 years and I suppose that will take a little while to put aside. For instance, it really bugs me that there's no way to just maximize a window to fill up the whole screen so I can see everything well. The little green "+" button seems to have different behaviors for different windows... but it isn't doing anything I want it to. :)

Still, I'm trying to be open-minded about it... mostly because I know that with Red it's going to be inevitable. Not only am I convinced that the integration is going to be far and away the best in Final Cut, but the app that I used to use exclusively to edit video with on the PC (Vegas) has gone down the tubes. If I have to pick up and learn something new from scratch, it might as well be the one that's best suited for Red. I'm just glad my keyboard has a delete key. :-)

[GlennChan]

I don't think the camera automatically generates a QT wrapper. It has to be passed though a (quick but off-camera) program called REDquick first.
I am guessing that both the camera and Redquick can generate the proxy files. (They announced/mentioned Redquick after; I don't think the original camera proxies will be replaced by Redquick.)

The camera will generate proxies for one resolution.

With Redquick, you can presumably specify whether you want 2k, 1k, or 0.5k res proxies. Maybe in the future you could even specify if you want timecode overlays/burns or not.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I will resist Mac with all my strength. What's the point in buying a $10,000 editing computer if I can't play video games on it? :)

You have time to play games? ...Lucky bastard. :clown2: Hehe, most of the good games come on Mac too, but I still have my PCs and use one for games. I haven't really played a good game for about a year though. I spend too much time here, but that's different, I'm generating previews and babysitting renders.

Anyway, no, you don't need a Mac to use RED. RED will work with any Quicktime capable NLE software via QT wrappers over REDCODE. Apple is including native REDCODE support in a future update of FCP, so that will be nice.

I'm thinking that for most people, unless they're already established with something else like Avid, either a Final Cut Studio or Adobe solution will be ideal. And the Adobe solution is looking very attractive since it's cross-platform.

[Ramesh Jai]

I will resist Mac with all my strength. What's the point in buying a $10,000 editing computer if I can't play video games on it? :)
That's exactly what my 8 year old nephew tells me!

[Häakon]

The Adobe solution is looking very attractive since it's cross-platform.
Yeah, that's a really good point. It also has better Blu-ray support - right now, anyway - which is important to me, because there's really no other way to get your HD content into consumer hands. 40GB files aren't too reasonable for mass downloading.

[Eddie]

Check out this link... http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/95175/apple-mac-pro-is-crowned-the-fastest-pc-in-the-uk.html

I am slowly getting confused here. So the fastest option is to buy hardware from apple and run windows xp... hhmmm things do change, these days...:usd:

[Casey Green]

Interesting. I assume that's a pretty old model there, but looking at that pic I'm sure that's where it stems from. You learn something new every day!

I admit that most of my frustrations have to deal with the fact that the Mac does everything differently and I'm just not used to it. I'm not convinced that the Mac does them any better (like our previous example), but I have been a PC user for over 20 years and I suppose that will take a little while to put aside. For instance, it really bugs me that there's no way to just maximize a window to fill up the whole screen so I can see everything well. The little green "+" button seems to have different behaviors for different windows... but it isn't doing anything I want it to. :)

Still, I'm trying to be open-minded about it... mostly because I know that with Red it's going to be inevitable. Not only am I convinced that the integration is going to be far and away the best in Final Cut, but the app that I used to use exclusively to edit video with on the PC (Vegas) has gone down the tubes. If I have to pick up and learn something new from scratch, it might as well be the one that's best suited for Red. I'm just glad my keyboard has a delete key. :-)

I recently bought a Mac from product placement on a show I worked on. Yes, it took a steal of a deal + bootcamp + RED to get me to buy it. But I have a feeling with RED's background / NAB demos, the BEST work flow will be available first for Apple users.

For those of you who may be adding a Mac into your toolkit, I highly recommend "Double Command", which is shareware app that allows for re-mapping of the keyboard.

There are many options it has for remapping keys (Ctrl, Command, Delete, Function, etc.) and saving those changes.

For example, it helps if you are used to the Windows Copy/Paste method (which uses the control key, rather than the Mac's command Key), which is just too cramped for easy copy paste using the keyboard.

One other change I use all the time is remapping the forward slash key to be a delete key, since the Mac Book Pro doesn't have one (!). I know you can shift-backspace, but who wants to have 2 key strokes for delete when typing any text document? Not me.

Apple is a great company, and has created some great tools for the industry. Unfortunately, they also can be a bit stubborn. :) It took them 20 years to admit that having a 2 button mouse wasn't that bad of an idea... but even so, they couldn't just add a button, they had to make a mighty mouse that could sense where your fingers are, and sometimes get it right and sometimes not. I would have preferred 2 buttons years ago.

As far as a 2 button track pad, there is an option now for a 2 finger "tap" for right mouse button, that helps when you can get it to work right, and also other 3rd party utilities for mapping areas of the track pad, but the Mac Book Pro's single button just is wasted at being that size with only one function.

Here is the link to Double Command, I hope it helps..



http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/12295

[Brook Willard]

Brook? Jeff? Haak? Be my swimming buddies on this one.

Heheh... I used to work for Apple. My opinion is probably void.

So if anybody has any "how do I...?" Mac questions, I can answer them.

But I'm still not sure what this MAC thing is.

[Häakon]

For example, it helps if you are used to the Windows Copy/Paste method (which uses the control key, rather than the Mac's command Key), which is just too cramped for easy copy paste using the keyboard.

One other change I use all the time is remapping the forward slash key to be a delete key, since the Mac Book Pro doesn't have one (!). I know you can shift-backspace, but who wants to have 2 key strokes for delete when typing any text document? Not me.

Here is the link to Double Command, I hope it helps..

http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/12295
Thanks, Casey. Just from your description, it sounds like that program may be very helpful. The copy/paste thing was definitely bugging me, too. Fortunately, I'm using the same keyboard and mouse I use with my PC, so that made the transition a bit easier. Just personally, I can't stand either of the ones that come with the Mac (but again, this is just as much me being used to my components as anything else).

Your comments about the stubbornness also ring very true; sometimes I think this helps them but often it does not. My only hope is that with their market share continuing to grow, they will pay attention to the influx of feedback that they're receiving from new users. They do a lot of things well, but some things just don't make any sense whatsoever and "stubbornness" isn't a very good excuse for that. We need more companies like RED who respond and react to user input.


So if anybody has any "how do I...?" Mac questions, I can answer them.
If I can't even figure out how to delete a file, you may regret extending that offer... :)

[laguun]

Mac or PC?
the mac is a x86 pc.
nothing more, nothing less.

using the osx, you won´t have 4k finishing - not with fcs, at least, as it only works with 2k.

some examples for pcs with full 4k and the windows/linux operation system instead of osx :
full 4k with redcode support, there is assimilate scratch.
even faster (multistream 4k with realtime cc) would be dvs clipster.

- however, they are somewhat more expensive than a monstered out 8 core intel apple with storage.

[Mark Holmes]

As someone who jumps back and forth from Mac / Final Cut to PC / Vegas hourly, I find that equipping every computer with an identical Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer helps tremendously. Whenever I buy a Mac, the first thing I buy for it is one of these mice. All the buttons are supported from plug in, but downloading actual OSX drivers (currently on version 5, I believe - http://downloads.zdnet.co.uk/0,1000000375,39065851s,00.htm) enables key mapping and the like. I really believe that having PCs running Vegas and Macs running Final Cut Studio is truly the best of both worlds. When I need to do quick cutting for end-to-end work (especially DV) Vegas is great, but when I am working on something that needs integration in the professional world, FCP is there for me. Different projects, different tools. Most carpenters have more than one hammer, as they say.

[redhead]

That's exactly what my 8 year old nephew tells me!

You have a smart nephew!

[Keith Alan Morris]

build your own mac! save on RAM.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3250

[Jeff Kilgroe]

And they think two mouse buttons are too many.

Hehe... The Apple Mighty Mouse has 4 buttons plus a "scroll ball" which can be clicked as a 5th button and rolled like a miniature trackball for scrolling horizontally or vertically. I am completely unaware of any non-Apple mouse that has this little feature. Unfortunately, outside of the little scroll-ball, I personally hate the Mighty Mouse and prefer my Logitech laser mouse. The new low-profile Apple keyboards that came out earlier this week are pretty sweet though.

[Rocco Schult]

For those of you who may be adding a Mac into your toolkit, I highly recommend "Double Command", which is shareware app that allows for re-mapping of the keyboard...For example, it helps if you are used to the Windows Copy/Paste method (which uses the control key, rather than the Mac's command Key)...

Fair enough, use a tool if you are used to a PC and don't like to fiddle with its differences. I have to switch between Macs and PCs everyday and prefer learning the differences and then I can use every Mac or PC out there. Its a different tool with different behaviour.


It took them 20 years to admit that having a 2 button mouse..As far as a 2 button track pad, there is an option now for a 2 finger "tap" for right mouse button, that helps when you can get it to work right..

Well, 20 years ago they had a mouse and a GUI at least :usd:

[Rocco Schult]

I don't think the camera automatically generates a QT wrapper. It has to be passed though a (quick but off-camera) program called REDquick first.


I am guessing that both the camera and Redquick can generate the proxy files. (They announced/mentioned Redquick after; I don't think the original camera proxies will be replaced by Redquick.)...Maybe in the future you could even specify if you want timecode overlays/burns or not.

Either way, "built-in" or outside the machine, it goes pretty fast. Its a hop and pop. Only a wrapper and thus an interpreter, in no way a proxy. Its like a QT reference file. The proxy is actually rendered on the fly. One of the advantages of wavelet.

[Casey Green]

Well, 20 years ago they had a mouse and a GUI at least :usd:

yep - as did the Commodore Amiga. ;)

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Yeah, that's a really good point. It also has better Blu-ray support - right now, anyway - which is important to me, because there's really no other way to get your HD content into consumer hands. 40GB files aren't too reasonable for mass downloading.

You can author HD-DVD on both Mac and PC with Adobe and on Mac/FCS. So Blu-Ray isn't the only option. HD-DVD writers are only available from Toshiba commercial products division right now, but H.264 and VC-1 can be encoded to standard DVD media as HD-DVD and still allow for 20 minutes or so of 1080p24 HD playback. HD-DVD menus can be created in XML, which is nice. OTOH, Blu-Ray can be created the same way, but without the BD author tools, your out of luck doing BD Java menus. You can however use standard DVD style menus and then link HD content to them and such discs are allowed in both the Blu-Ray and HD-DVD format specs.

Due to studio divisions, more studios jumping on the "both formats" bandwagon and more "universal format" players about to hit the market soon, I don't see either format going away. In the end, either format is going to be fine (IMO) as players will digest both -- give it another 12 to 18 months. LG's next generation universal player is set to launch next month for $699, which is a major upgrade to their current $999 model. 5 years from now, I think most discs will be Blu-Ray, especially those authored in desktop burners. BD media is the superior data and end user authoring format, this is where it will win the market. Not in movie or player sales because right now both formats are dead even in that respect. Blu-Ray has more players out there due to PS3, but the PS3 crowd isn't exactly buying tons of HD movies, most are still content with DVD since the movies are $10 cheaper that way.

[Morning Glory]

Kensington Trackball, way more ergonomic, efficient, and elegant (and requires less space) than a mouse, IMHO. and my wrist doesn't hurt no more. Or course, according to some, a track pad is THE most ergonomic, but there's something quite a bit more fun about spinning a big ball around. And for my more fiddly Photoshop, Wacom is quite fabulous. I feel like a mouse is a conceptual comprosmise between a drawing tablet and a trackball ( okay, I know the mouse came first, but I mean on the Platonic Ideal level of existence, you know, where the Red team get's all there ideas from)

[Rudi Herbert]

My two rupies...

Apple IS a great company, but saying that only Apple software and apps will generate "professional" results is as elitist, wrong anf misinformed as saying that only film or an F-23 or a Viper are capable of worthy cinema images. Which the product responsible for the creation of this forum has thoroughly shattered as a notion. I love Premiere, done good and great things with it (and some bad ones too, though completely my fault) and love its integration with AE and Photoshop, two of the truly STANDARD programs in image manipulation, without argument. Editing is about refining the story you're telling for impact, and as such, the effect you'll use 95% of the time is the ubiquitous cut, which any system can do. The rest is gravy. Much more important is whether your editing app is resolution independent and allows you to keep your ingested images at the same quality as they came in. Adobe does that, and if you keep your PC running smart and clean, no MAC is truly more stable or better. Don't get me wrong, I love MACS, but having to buy one and learn a new interface on account of RED would be counterproductive. RED as an acquisition tool should provide the best possible images for either platform, so we choose which way to go from there on...

Rudi Herbert

[Robert P. Hogue]

I will resist Mac with all my strength. What's the point in buying a $10,000 editing computer if I can't play video games on it? :)

Just install windows on your mac with Bootcamp, and it will do everything your garden variety windows box does. And it will run all your games, as well as all your windows programs at full speed.

[laguun]

Just install windows on your mac with Bootcamp, and it will do everything your garden variety windows box does. And it will run all your games, as well as all your windows programs at full speed.

sadly not.

it won´t run the typical high-end applications of today, as discreet smoke , lustre or flame, avid ds nitris, northlight, any quantel application, assimilate scratch, dvs clipster etc on other pcs from hp/compaq/ibm/custom built do.

[Lucas Wilson]

sadly not.

it won´t run the typical high-end applications of today, as discreet smoke , lustre or flame, avid ds nitris, northlight, any quantel application, assimilate scratch, dvs clipster etc on other pcs from hp/compaq/ibm/custom built do.

Actually... I am running SCRATCH just fine on a Mac Tower with Bootcamp...

: )

For any and all SCRATCH customers out there reading this - this is NOT a cert'ed config. We are testing it, though...

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA

[Brook Willard]

Heheh, busted. :)

[GlennChan]

therock: Thanks for the correction... it is not exactly a proxy. I'm not sure if there is a better term for it? Maybe it would make more sense to call it a 2k/1k/0.5k reference file??

[Tom Lowe]

Just install windows on your mac with Bootcamp, and it will do everything your garden variety windows box does. And it will run all your games, as well as all your windows programs at full speed.

Or I could just buy a PC. :tongue:

[Poi Boy]

And play lots of games ! kill all kinds of stuff ! LOL
-A

[Rodrigo Lizana]

That's funny... I'm still trying to figure out how to do something as simple as delete a file on my Mac! :)

Right button on the mighty mouse and select move to trash.

[Nook Kim]

One other change I use all the time is remapping the forward slash key to be a delete key, since the Mac Book Pro doesn't have one (!). I know you can shift-backspace, but who wants to have 2 key strokes for delete when typing any text document? Not me.

Hi Casey,
I have a MacBook Pro, and I believe you HAVE the delete key. You just don't
have the backspace key. On a MacBook Pro, your delete key does two tasks,
deleting and backspacing. Therefore, you can actually backspace by hitting
your delete key in the text editor of your choice. But to delete a file, you need
to hold down the command key.



As far as a 2 button track pad, there is an option now for a 2 finger "tap" for right mouse button, that helps when you can get it to work right, and also other 3rd party utilities for mapping areas of the track pad, but the Mac Book Pro's single button just is wasted at being that size with only one function.


But I like how I can scroll vertically AND horizontally with my two fingers, don't you?

By the way, it took only about five month until I found myself not wanting
to turn on my PC, which served me more than 15 years, again.

You all know that I'm not saying Mac's better, right? I'm just saying.

[Casey Green]

Hi Casey,
I have a MacBook Pro, and I believe you HAVE the delete key. You just don't
have the backspace key. On a MacBook Pro, your delete key does two tasks,
deleting and backspacing. Therefore, you can actually backspace by hitting
your delete key in the text editor of your choice. But to delete a file, you need
to hold down the command key.



But I like how I can scroll vertically AND horizontally with my two fingers, don't you?

By the way, it took only about five month until I found myself not wanting
to turn on my PC, which served me more than 15 years, again.

You all know that I'm not saying Mac's better, right? I'm just saying.

I probably mistyped it... but thats what I meant. The Mac Book Pro has a delete key (which acts as a backspace), but not a backspace key. so you can't delete (forward) as you would on a PC in one keystroke without the added 3rd party remap. still don't know why they did that when their other keyboards have the backspace.

As for the 2 finger scrolling...I was so used to most PC laptops having that feature using the separate area to the right and below the trackpad for this function... it was nice to see apple add that - a good solution... :)

[Noah Kadner]

Umm- this is getting OT ain't it? Perhaps a move to another forum?

-Noah

[Poi Boy]

not only ot but the same boring re hash. It should have stayed closed.
-A

[Poi Boy]

OK maybe this isn't the thread that closed and opened again.. still kind of re hash.
Aloha
-a

[Brook Willard]

Nah, this is the one that was open until I moved it to OT and let it die.

[laguun]

Actually... I am running SCRATCH just fine on a Mac Tower with Bootcamp...

: )

For any and all SCRATCH customers out there reading this - this is NOT a cert'ed config. We are testing it, though...

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA

Luki,

so can we order scratch for apple pcs or can we not?
and with which graphic card - do you have nvidia hd-sdi in the apple pc?

[laguun]

Heheh, busted. :)

indeed.
so luki, how does the hd-sdi input/output via the nvidia graphics card work under bootcamp?

[Lucas Wilson]

indeed.
so luki, how does the hd-sdi input/output via the nvidia graphics card work under bootcamp?

Well... to be completely honest, we haven't tested it yet. Wanted to work through some basics first.

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA

[laguun]

Well... to be completely honest, we haven't tested it yet. Wanted to work through some basics first.

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA

you really confused me there.
do we re-etablish the "no scratch on mac as of yet mantra" then?

ah, and, while you are here, two questions
1) can one move the sdi board from a 4500 to 5500 when building a scratch workstation and keep the 4500 w/o sdi? that would free some hard-earned bucks to spend.
2) will you be at IBC?