Jeff Kilgroe
01-22-2007, 08:09 PM
...This was originally going to be posted in the RED One fourm, but after writing a short novel, I felt it was best posted in the off-topic area.
Since I know, Panasonic has offered the technology to other manufacturers of SD cards. There are plans from other companies to sell P2 cards, but I think it's a slow process, since it's still a small market.
There are four problems with P2:
1. Based on PCMCIA - an obsolete interface that was on its way out when Panasonic first introduced P2 (before the HVX200).
2. Proprietary - A marked ROM on the P2 is required so other PCMCIA based storage can not be used in its place within P2 devices. No hard drives or other FLASH media alternatives.
3. Overpriced - Even in such a small, limited market as this, where does Panasonic get off charging $1200 for 8GB of FLASH memory? I know exactly what is inside of one, right down to the interleaving memory controller. Aside from the SD-style FLASH chips, there isn't any more than about $12 worth of components there and manufacturing is simplistic. For the zero-fault, high-grade SD chips they're using, going rate for individual chips with actual SD Card packaging is currently $170 for an 8GB card from most discount vendors. The non zero-fault rated FLASH is $50 cheaper for an 8GB and usually just as good, it just hasn't undergone the individual chip test process. So, there is absolutely no reason we don't currently have 32GB P2 cards for $800 or less.
The reason other memory card makers haven't started making P2 product is the limited market. I've looked over the P2 specs and licensing info in consideration of having them manufactured for resale. ...The conclusion? Not worth it. The most economical way to do that would be to contract one of the Taiwanese memory card makers to fabricate them and put our company label on them. The problem is setup charges were high and given the number of HVX200 camcorders and other P2 products sold (Panasonic estimate) I didn't see how it would be worth the investment. ...And this is probably one more reason why Panasonic is charging so much for P2 ards. Contacting some memory card makers also reassured our thoughts on the matter. Several, including local manufacturers to us (Mushkin, Micron/Crucial), were watching P2 at the time. None of them felt comfortable with an investment on their end to produce P2 product. Even though Crucial/Micron had already licensed P2 tech from Panasonic in order to investigate the possibility.
I know that other accessory providers for the HVX200 have also looked into P2 manufacturing and found it to be a questionable investment. I don't know if Spec-Comm has though, David and team over there have never said anything about it that I'm aware of, besides they're focused on their CinePorter product.
Slow P2 sales (relatively) in contrast to production volume requirements means they have to milk the market for all they can get out of one card type before they move on. So we're still seeing 8GB cards when 32GB should be the standard. 16GB cards are now 5 to 6 months overdue based on what Panny reps were saying last year at NAB and they still were claiming by the end of 2006 at IBC. No 16GB cards to be seen yet and now they're dumping product by shipping a free 8GB card to new HVX200 purchasers rather than dropping the HVX200 price. Samsung and others are showing off FLASH chips at 32GB and larger now -- Samsung should be shipping 32GB flash chips on the OEM market by mid-year. This would make such things like the recently demonstrated 64GB CF cards or a hypothetical 128GB P2 card (or PCMCIA form factor FLASH "drive") entirely possible. And while I'm pretty sure that 128GB Flash drive will be on the market by late summer, I doubt we'll see 32GB P2 cards this year. And if we do, they will be way too expensive to justify the purchase.
Sorry about the long-winded rant and I know we're completely off-topic now. So I'm going to post this in the Off Topic section....
Since I know, Panasonic has offered the technology to other manufacturers of SD cards. There are plans from other companies to sell P2 cards, but I think it's a slow process, since it's still a small market.
There are four problems with P2:
1. Based on PCMCIA - an obsolete interface that was on its way out when Panasonic first introduced P2 (before the HVX200).
2. Proprietary - A marked ROM on the P2 is required so other PCMCIA based storage can not be used in its place within P2 devices. No hard drives or other FLASH media alternatives.
3. Overpriced - Even in such a small, limited market as this, where does Panasonic get off charging $1200 for 8GB of FLASH memory? I know exactly what is inside of one, right down to the interleaving memory controller. Aside from the SD-style FLASH chips, there isn't any more than about $12 worth of components there and manufacturing is simplistic. For the zero-fault, high-grade SD chips they're using, going rate for individual chips with actual SD Card packaging is currently $170 for an 8GB card from most discount vendors. The non zero-fault rated FLASH is $50 cheaper for an 8GB and usually just as good, it just hasn't undergone the individual chip test process. So, there is absolutely no reason we don't currently have 32GB P2 cards for $800 or less.
The reason other memory card makers haven't started making P2 product is the limited market. I've looked over the P2 specs and licensing info in consideration of having them manufactured for resale. ...The conclusion? Not worth it. The most economical way to do that would be to contract one of the Taiwanese memory card makers to fabricate them and put our company label on them. The problem is setup charges were high and given the number of HVX200 camcorders and other P2 products sold (Panasonic estimate) I didn't see how it would be worth the investment. ...And this is probably one more reason why Panasonic is charging so much for P2 ards. Contacting some memory card makers also reassured our thoughts on the matter. Several, including local manufacturers to us (Mushkin, Micron/Crucial), were watching P2 at the time. None of them felt comfortable with an investment on their end to produce P2 product. Even though Crucial/Micron had already licensed P2 tech from Panasonic in order to investigate the possibility.
I know that other accessory providers for the HVX200 have also looked into P2 manufacturing and found it to be a questionable investment. I don't know if Spec-Comm has though, David and team over there have never said anything about it that I'm aware of, besides they're focused on their CinePorter product.
Slow P2 sales (relatively) in contrast to production volume requirements means they have to milk the market for all they can get out of one card type before they move on. So we're still seeing 8GB cards when 32GB should be the standard. 16GB cards are now 5 to 6 months overdue based on what Panny reps were saying last year at NAB and they still were claiming by the end of 2006 at IBC. No 16GB cards to be seen yet and now they're dumping product by shipping a free 8GB card to new HVX200 purchasers rather than dropping the HVX200 price. Samsung and others are showing off FLASH chips at 32GB and larger now -- Samsung should be shipping 32GB flash chips on the OEM market by mid-year. This would make such things like the recently demonstrated 64GB CF cards or a hypothetical 128GB P2 card (or PCMCIA form factor FLASH "drive") entirely possible. And while I'm pretty sure that 128GB Flash drive will be on the market by late summer, I doubt we'll see 32GB P2 cards this year. And if we do, they will be way too expensive to justify the purchase.
Sorry about the long-winded rant and I know we're completely off-topic now. So I'm going to post this in the Off Topic section....