Insurance

[david farland]

Couple of things...

Does anyone know companies who would be ideal for insuring the RED camera for either myself during production or whilst I store it?

Second, in regards to renting it out. What is the usual procedure regarding insurance.
Should I take it out and get the borrower to pay the premium or get them to prove insurance.

Cheers,
Dave

[M Taylor]

I have a policy with Aon Risk Services, for both equipment and public liability. They are the only company that I found that have any interest in cover for cameramen.

Martyn

[Lucas Wilson]

I have a policy with Aon Risk Services, for both equipment and public liability. They are the only company that I found that have any interest in cover for cameramen.

Martyn

I have nothing to actually add to this thread other than that "OZMA" by Melvins is one of my favorite albums of all time. :)

Lucas
-----
Gluey Porch Treatments and Houdini also high on the list
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA

[M Taylor]

Hey Lucas,
You've got GREAT taste in music :devil:
I wondered if there were any Melvins fans on the forum.

M

[Tim Bradley]

Hi David,
I use AON as well as my gear insurance company. I had a claim a few years ago and they were most helpful and settled very quickly.

[david farland]

Thanks....i'll get some quotes from them.

[Loomis]

Thanks for that, folks. I was on the cusp of asking if anybody had any good local insurance tips (my own experience has been limited to personal home and contents), and that AON seems to have some pretty extensive coverage for small to medium businesses and particularly property/physical business assets.

What about secure lock-ups in the Sydney area?

[Russ McDonald]

Fancy seeing you here Dave, looking for insurance to cover your ass...

Just busting your balls. I am all seeing all knowing. Better watch your back you never know when a sudden down pour of water may find you...

Inside joke between me and Dave

[david farland]

You better get some insurance before I donkey-punch your ass.

Sorry guys.....that bitch needs a slap now'n then!

[Russ McDonald]

You better get some insurance before I donkey-punch your ass.

Sorry guys.....that bitch needs a slap now'n then!

I'm wounded Dave. What exactly is a donkey punch, is that when the guy throwing the punch is a Jack-ass.

P.S I can pick on Dave all I want, but if anybody else fucks with him. I'll go Dick Cheney on your ass.

Cheers

[Russ McDonald]

While I'm here I would like to get an idea on crew cost down there.

Since I have been pontificating elsewhere. Dave is getting 3000.00 a day US (that's all the bells and whistles, with bullet proof data management. So Dave don't show up with your camera, an EOS zoom lens, rubber bands, grip tape, a case of blank DVD's, and a one arm man who's name is Fallow Focus.)

I can get slave wages, because I'm American asshole producer, but since I was a slave once. I don't pay them. A happy crew is a fast crew. I want to know it all including what it cost to feed you free loaders. Do I actually have to have Vegemite. Please enlighten me, use Australian dollars.

••• Just for Dave •••
enlighten |enˈlītn|

verb [ trans. ] give (someone) greater knowledge and understanding about a subject or situation : Christopher had not enlightened Frances as to their relationship. • Or Adobeone enlighten David about the principles of addition and subtraction.• give (someone) spiritual knowledge or insight. • figurative illuminate or make clearer (a problem or area of study) : this will enlighten the studies of origins of myths and symbols. • archaic shed light on (an object).

[RobRoySyd]

To the best of my knowledge there's only one company left in Oz that'll insure gear while it's rented out. Premiums are roughly 10% of value pa. Excess $1,100 inc GST. Does take the attractiveness out of renting gear out away a bit.
From my experience you'd be nuts not to cover the gear yourself when it's rented out unless it's to a production with serious dollars and underwriters. If something expensive gets trashed you do not want to get caught up in a three way tussle. Remember you're loosing income until the gear is replaced and it's impossible I think to get insurance that covers the loss of income.
Even with the insurance not all circumstances are covered, to state the bleeding obvious read the fine print very carefully.

Edit:

Normal business insurance will cover cameras etc while you use it. They do not cover it when someone else uses it. If someone trying to seel you a policy says it does, get this very explicitly in writing. I've been told one thing and when pressed told another about this. Assume and believe nothing that isn't very clearly in writing.

[david farland]

Thanks for that. 10% is a good wack. I guess that covers theft.
Can you tell me who does this insurance?

I also phoned Aon risk services and they'll provide:
1. Theft & damage cover for camera gear in the owner's home.
2. Damage cover for gear that's hired out without owner.
3. Theft cover for gear that's hired out WITH owner.
4. NO COVER for gear that's hired out WITHOUT owner.

The policy was called an entertainment equipment policy...about $70K worth of gear was $1,800 per year. They alspo wanted to see a copy of my hiring terms & conditions as they would want to come after the hiree for damage costs.
They mentioned that theft cover whilst hiring without owner was a hot potato.

Cheers,
Dave

[Andrew Timlin]

Try F.I.U.A. in North Sydney. Ask for Joe LoSurdo (+ 61-2-9929 7733).

I co-owned a rental company in Australia for 13 years (Broadcam Australia Pty Ltd, since merged with Panavision) and we used F.I.U.A. for most of this period.

We had a few claims, some big ($200k+) and some small ($10k or less) and they always settled with a minimum of fuss.

A good company and Joe is a great guy... but always remember this, cheap advice can be expensive, do some research!

Good luck!


Rgd's



Andrew

[david farland]

Andrew,
thanks very much for that. Joe sounded great. He says they cover 3/4 of the production industry and cover people like panavision & lemac. Actually they said they wrote the terms & conditions for Lemac (see lemac site) and would be happy for me (anyone I guess) to use it. It covers damage, loss & theft for equipment in storage, transit or on location without the owner in attendance! Australia wide cover for $70K was approx $2.5K. i'll go back to Aon & clarify a few more things once I get the quote from FIUA.
Many thanks for the advice,

Dave

[Russ McDonald]

Dave

Go to a million, if you can.

[david farland]

I didn't know jails had internet access.

[Russ McDonald]

I could go with a mom joke here, but it's just to easy.

I'm serious about the coverage, that way you make a better deal with the rental house because you rent the lenses and such. Add a little mark up. and pocket the money.

This makes a camera department not just a camera guy. Work less, make more. I know your all about doing as little work as possible.

Don't make me come down there and make you my bitch. I vary sensitive about my incarceration. Just ask half of you relatives they lived it, they know.

Cheers,

[david farland]

You saying if I go to a rental house and show them the size of my of million dollar coverage they'll want a piece of it and go all giddy/school girlish on the rates.

type slowly bitch,
Dave

[Russ McDonald]

I sent you a PM to explain why.

[Andrew Timlin]

Fraud = jail time.

Do you really think the insurance companies are that stupid...?

And how much do you think a $1m policy will cost? And if you really think that they'd pay out $1m on equipment with a market value of $50k (assume), then you're on a different planet than the rest of us.

Why stop at $1m, why not $100m, in fact, what the hell, make it $1b...

I mean, if you're going to commit fraud, you may as well make it worthwhile just in case you DO get away with it!

BTW, insurance companies are not stupid, they may be slow in adapting to markets in some areas, but they employ lot's and lot's of very smart people who'd love nothing more than to discover a false claim and then not only refuse the pay-out, but lay charges as well. And the legal system loves fraudulent crime... NOT!

Like I said earlier, cheap advice is expensive...

Rgd's


Andrew

[david farland]

Andrew,

Whoa there Andrew...he's not saying anything like that at all!

I've also looked back in the thread and can't see where you'd even read or assumed that!

What he's saying is take out insurance to cover personal equipment plus any additional hired kit i.e, geared head, primes, blah blah to make up a complete camera package which would then be hired out to a production company as a complete package. Augmenting the Red basic kit with additional kit and making sure you had sufficient insurance to cover it. His PM stated this.
That's all! NO fraud, NO claims....unless of course the gear was wrecked and then only for the amount that was destroyed/stolen.

Abobeone might be pretty stupid but he's not going to make a claim like that on a public forum particularly this one and stating the insurance companies!
But there again he did threaten he'd take my gear on another thread if it went bust and stuffed up his shooting schedule, so maybe he is that stupid!

Abalone you bastard, you snake oil salesman...you can keep your sister!!!

But on another note, I am concerned about the premium on such high coverage.
I tried to call Joe this morning and ask him about higher coverage but alas George Bush is in town so it's picnic day in Sydney.

Anyway, I expect you've just made an mistake reading something. But if they're something I've or Abalone with his spinster sister have overlooked/assumed/naive about...tell me!
Again thank's for the insurance tip and I'll be asking Joe (FIUA) for his advice/quote on Monday morning.

Cheers,
Dave

[Russ McDonald]

Andrew

I am a hard nosed, no B.S. S.O.B when I half to be, but I would never break the law. Dave and I mess around with each other. But I would never put him, or anyone else in danger of loosing their business, and especially not their freedom...

I know you were just protecting your country man. It's that attitude that makes Australia the only country on the face of the Earth. I would call home, besides my own.

I'm really only half the black hearted bastard I'm made out to be, I am so misunderstood.......

Cheers to you all.

P.S. On behalf of my nation sorry about all the traffic.

[Andrew Timlin]

Apologies... I may of misunderstood the gist of the conversation, but insurance fraud is a real sore point for not only me, but all Australians who suffered the consequences of the HIH scam a few years back.

Our own policy doubled in cost overnight, and many people went belly up due to the absolute greed of a few fraudulent individuals.

As for the traffic... well, whadya do, we can complain all we like, but they aint gonna send all the APEC people home are they!


Rgd's



Andrew

[david farland]

Found a basic quote for Public Liability cover ($10M - required for councils) from Aon Risk Services (Simon Calabrese - 02 9253-7539).

The minimum cover was $940 for 4 short productions.

Cheers,