View Full Version : Cineform out of RED possible?
Rudi Herbert
08-12-2007, 08:29 AM
Here's my thinking:
REDCODE seems to be a fine compressed format, and for what I understand, it is QT wrapped and FCP can accept it natively. RED and Apple are working very closely together on this it has been said repeatedly. Now, for those of us whose whole infrastructure is already Adobe/Premiere based, and even though we can work with QT files, I wonder if it would be a possibility for the RED at some point to send out a Cineform file. Cineform is AVI wrapped and optimized for work within Premiere. It also looks very, very, very good. I know Cineform has a 12 bit, 444 RGB codec which could work out of the RED's dual SDI ports, and it would be interesting to compare its quality to REDCODE. Assuming that it is as good as REDCODE, would RED be willing at some point to work with Cineform in incorporating that codec as part of the options, would Cineform try and come up with a way to get its codec out of the RED onto drives or CF cards like the REDCODE can do, or would RED itself perhaps come out with its own AVI version of REDCODE? Obviously, it is a delicate point to suggest that RED should use a technology other than theirs, but I was just thinking that since Cineform is a pioneer on wavelet codecs and has done all the ground work in creating a format optimized for the PC and Adobe, why reinvent the wheel in this case? Let's not forget also that Cineform has made substantial upgrades to Premiere in order to maximize its editing efficiency when using Cineform files. Our company is on the verge of acquiring several Cineform enabled machines, but since we're also planning on buying 2-3 REDs early next year, we're a bit jittery about investing on the Cineform systems if they are not going to offer any advantages for RED footage. Is such a collaboration a possibility in the near future?
---------------------
Rudi Herbert
Dave Cooper
08-12-2007, 09:16 AM
I'm sure REDCODE can be wrapped in an AVI. Personally I would hold off on the Cineform until you get your hands on your RED cameras.
Tom Lowe
08-12-2007, 10:04 AM
I'd like to know the answer to this as well.
Roberto B
08-12-2007, 10:13 AM
the answer is obvious..
but Mr. Newman has a large gang of customers over the red shooters.. that's obvious too.. whether red wishes whether not..
donatello b
08-12-2007, 10:42 AM
just guessing - you are NOT going to see RED camera send out any codec/format other then RED raw or REDcode ...
the question ? in post can RED raw be converted or rewrapped with a cineform RAW header or something easy where you don't have to render the file ?.... probably won't know until after camera is released ...
again guessing - if you look back ( dvxusers) at some early post there seems to have been "talk" between Cineform & Red but if you follow the posts one can see they weren't going to get be having wine with dinner ? ...
perhaps once Red is released Cineform can take a look at the files and work from there ??
Tom Lowe
08-12-2007, 10:55 AM
That's what will probably end up happening. Once you get the footage out of the camera and through RED CINE, then it would go to Cineform's intermediate. I guess in that case you would have to do your RAW processing in REDCINE?
Lauri Kettunen
08-12-2007, 12:04 PM
Have you read what David Newman from Cineform has said about this in DVInfo.net? See
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=76245&highlight=RED
Rudi Herbert
08-12-2007, 12:44 PM
I guess it's up to Cineform to create a "RED editing solution" if they so see fit. And they probably will. You also have the option of using Color Finesse with Premiere or AE, which yields really high end results without the messy interface and issues of Color. We have done some amazing things with Color Finesse and when we saw it projected I couldn't believe how great it looked, so I for one will stay put on the Adobe path...But will eagerly await any sample footage from the Apple camp that comes our way once the first RED cameras are delivered...:-)
Rudi Herbert
Tom Lowe
08-12-2007, 04:45 PM
David has said many times that they will provide a solution for 4K RED editing in Premiere. It's simply a matter of whether Jim and them will help him, or leave him to his own devices. Either way, I'm sure it will all work out.
Dave Cooper
08-12-2007, 11:55 PM
As of now, it just sounds like another step and compression added to a workflow. Also I hate when people spell Premiere "premier".
For an answer, looks like time will tell. Nothing else said now can sway your decision on a purchase.
"Cineform out of RED possible?"
Yes. RED is camera based on FPGA. You can adapt any codec.
Best codec for PC today is Cineform, which totally support 4K and 4:4:4:4 and highly optimized for Intel CPU's.
Rob Lohman
09-09-2007, 07:41 AM
Do you work for Cineform by any chance vsv?
Please don't claim things as 'true' that you don't know about, such as FPGA based or "you can adapt any codec".
That only creates expectations that might be very wrong...
Cineform recorded in RED ONE (as in the camera) is *not* possible.
Thanks,
Do you work for Cineform by any chance vsv?
Nein. But this codec so amazing and shall be GOLD STANDART for Pro digital camera.
Please don't claim things as 'true' that you don't know about, such as FPGA based or "you can adapt any codec".
That only creates expectations that might be very wrong...
Cineform recorded in RED ONE (as in the camera) is *not* possible.
Thanks,
"that might be very wrong" but very soon we can do open the RED One see what this body have inside:wink:
If RED One impossible upgrade to CineformRAW its very good for competitor :weight_lift:
Jeff Kilgroe
09-09-2007, 08:17 AM
Nein. But this codec so amazing and shall be GOLD STANDART for Pro digital camera.
...You know, most of us around here think that REDCODE shall be the GOLD STANDARD. You might want to jump off of that Cineform horse when you're around here -- you're treading on thin ice.
...You know, most of us around here think that REDCODE shall be the GOLD STANDARD. You might want to jump off of that Cineform horse when you're around here -- you're treading on thin ice.
Jeff, good luck for MAC;)
But for PC side with transcoding REDcode to another codec no chance.
donatello b
09-09-2007, 08:41 AM
i have to say i find VSV posts odd ..
after reviewing all -
my POV - i don't believe the broken english ...i think it is a put on
i have to say i find VSV posts odd ..
after reviewing all -
my POV - i don't believe the broken english ...i think it is a put on
Thank you for compliment:biggrin: But my english language very poor.
I'm not spy from Cineform. I really love this amazing codec :biggrin:
donatello b
09-09-2007, 08:53 AM
VSV - you seem to forget to use certain verbs in some post and in other post you show you know how to use those verbs ...
i find it odd that you only forget to use verbs ( sometimes ) .. if you look at other post from persons that do not know english well they make more then just verb mistakes ...
i also note that you forget to use "to " many times but then you show you know how to use the correct form of "too"
you seem to be able to use the more complicated forms of english yet not the basic's- which i usually find when persons are trying to pretend they don't speak english ..
Curran Giddens
09-09-2007, 08:54 AM
I bet my REDcode can beat up your Cineform after school. :weight_lift:
Laco Zamba
09-09-2007, 08:57 AM
Maybe one day vsv will ask SI to implement REDCODE :-)
VSV - you seem to forget to use certain verbs in some post and in other post you show you know how to use those verbs ...
i find it odd that you only forget to use verbs ( sometimes ) .. if you look at other post from persons that do not know english well they make more then just verb mistakes ...
Now when owners of first RED One cam start to do first editing,
they can compare different workflow...But i know best - is based on Cineform.
RED camera is rEvolution, but big mistake is ignorance the CineformRAW codec.
Jeff Kilgroe
09-09-2007, 09:12 AM
vsv,
I've sent you a PM.
The current restrictions to a Mac workflow are only temporary and don't seem to be holding up anyone just yet. REDCODE will be fully editable on the PC, from Adobe and other supporting applications, it's a product that was just released in beta form, less than 50 cameras in the hands of customers so far.
What makes you think REDCODE RAW won't be better than Cineform RAW in a few more weeks when more of the pieces fall into place?
vsv,
I've sent you a PM.
The current restrictions to a Mac workflow are only temporary and don't seem to be holding up anyone just yet. REDCODE will be fully editable on the PC, from Adobe and other supporting applications, it's a product that was just released in beta form, less than 50 cameras in the hands of customers so far.
What makes you think REDCODE RAW won't be better than Cineform RAW in a few more weeks when more of the pieces fall into place?
Ok. I can wait "few more weeks". No more speculation.