Epic, high speed, lenses

[Guidofilippi]

Not seen a thread on this issue... should be answered by Red staff I suppose...
Red One already gives a fine 120 fps at 2k... not very much, but ok, at a quality handicap. Epic promises to offer a more than respectable 250fps at 2k, very good for many uses (sports like soccer, tennis, polo, etc.). Ok, not enough for "spilling liquids" ads, but may well overtake most expensive and difficult Photosonics tasks and maybe even some Phantom or Weisscam job. My questions are:
Wil Epic´s 2k keep Red One´s sensor size, that is, slightly bigger than regular 16, smaller than Super 16? Thinking here about keeping, or investing in, relatively cheap S16 and even some R16 lenses.
Will Epic´s 2k quality improve enough so as to admit a more extensive use for high def TV, even high speed for, let´s say, "small" ads?
Yes, of course, there are subjective points on all of this, I know...
Thanks,
Guido

[Michael Lindsay]

I've thought a little bit about this and:

The size with Epic X will be exactly the same (with later Epics it will be very close to S16). What would be great for Epic X is a 2.5k option for Super 16 zooms.

My guess is that it will be a mild (but thankfull) improvement over Red 1 due to better noise levels.

I find 2k 16:9 perfectly acceptable for certain tasks. You really have to nails exposure (treat camera like 200-250asa) and make sure you control dynamic range. What doesn't work is wide shots that need high micro contrast.

Being casual about exposure (as I am at 4k) with a 2k shot is a recipe for disaster.

Also your idea about using s16 lenses is good! I liked Ulta 16s when I tried them. The just out of image light source (in 2k) will cause problems with a 35mm lens that can be avoided with a modern S16 prime (or carefull masking).

kind regards

Michael

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Photosites on Mysterium-X are 5.4um or 0.0054mm, which is the same size as the RED One Mysterium sensor. So, 2K on EPIC-X, EPIC-S35 and Scarlet-S35, will be the same size as 2K on the RED One.

Further down the line when the Monstro sensor arrives, this may all change. It was mentioned in the past that the Monstro sensor's photosites were a bit larger at 6um. All things subject to change, of course. And the 2/3" Scarlet cameras have smaller photosites to cram 3K into that 2/3" space. I think their photosites are close to 3um. So 2K on a 2/3" Scarlet, assuming it lets you window and shoot 2K, will be closer to the FOV of a 1/2" sensor.

The EPIC 645 is said to do 350fps at 2K. Woohoo! No more Weisscam rentals... Not that I do that anyway, only have seen a weisscam once, never used one.

[Pawel Achtel]

The EPIC 645 is said to do 350fps at 2K. Woohoo!

That's seriously quick. It will also need 15 times (almost 4 stops) more light at that speed compared to 24fps. The extra sensitivity will come very handy, but many situations will require huge lighting.

What would be really cool is if it could do 2k scaled down (instead of cropped)at 350fps. But, I guess, this would be defying physics.

[David (dudi) Namir]

... but may well overtake most expensive and difficult Photosonics tasks and maybe even some Phantom or Weisscam job. ...
Thanks,
Guido

Guido,
The Photosonics 4b and 4C reach the speed of 2000 fps in a split of a second, a very footage consuming camera with the superior quality of 35mm film!!!
This is due to its rotating prism mechanism, if you replace the four sided prism with an Octagonal prism you even double the frame rate!!!
That is 4000 FPS in Europe where the electricity is 50 Htz, in the USA and other 60 Htz regions the camera can reach 2500 fps and 5000 fps.
And of course there are other cameras....like the Millisecond etc...
On a 400 feet roll I make 4-5 takes at 600 fps and 2 takes at 1000 fps.
BTW these cameras are available for work with me.

David Namir
Israel

David.

[Guidofilippi]

I've thought a little bit about this and:

The size with Epic X will be exactly the same (with later Epics it will be very close to S16). What would be great for Epic X is a 2.5k option for Super 16 zooms.

My guess is that it will be a mild (but thankfull) improvement over Red 1 due to better noise levels.

I find 2k 16:9 perfectly acceptable for certain tasks. You really have to nails exposure (treat camera like 200-250asa) and make sure you control dynamic range. What doesn't work is wide shots that need high micro contrast.

Being casual about exposure (as I am at 4k) with a 2k shot is a recipe for disaster.

Also your idea about using s16 lenses is good! I liked Ulta 16s when I tried them. The just out of image light source (in 2k) will cause problems with a 35mm lens that can be avoided with a modern S16 prime (or carefull masking).

kind regards

Michael

Good, more or less what I thought about the new sensor.
Sure about 2k exposure... it´s not as forgiving as 4k´s!
I do use super and standard 16 lenses on the Red, I´d say most standard 16 lenses work on it.
Thanks,
Guido