Rocket Fuel...

[Lucas Wilson]

Rocket Fuel...

[Michael Moreno]

Break it down...

[Kaku Ito]

What is that Luki?

[Sanjin Jukic]

Rocket fuel...

that means SCRATCH wants to play "affordable" DVS Clipster at the DI market

and to say is that SCRATCH has to show R3D 4K realtime debayer capabilities using REDRocket card as a main hardware acceleration card.

This new SCRATCH R3D 4K accelerated realtime debayer and conform performance also relays on fast RAID hardware part.

[Kaku Ito]

It says Scratchcine, so even more affordable Scratchcine supports RR?

[Sanjin Jukic]

It says Scratchcine, so even more affordable Scratchcine supports RR?
Kaku,

could be something like that.

Would be very nice to get a powerful "middle priced" R3D to DI sytem.

Who knows maybe they are finally getting it there after a couple of years...!!??

Btw, I was (twice) at Scratch stand at IBC but probably in the wrong time!!??

[mikeburton]

Looking forward to the upcoming announcement!

[Lucas Wilson]

Rocket fuel...

that means SCRATCH wants to play "affordable" DVS Clipster at the DI market

and to say is that SCRATCH has to show R3D 4K realtime debayer capabilities using REDRocket card as a main hardware acceleration card.

This new SCRATCH R3D 4K accelerated realtime debayer and conform performance also relays on fast RAID hardware part.

We already showed full RED Rocket integration in SCRATCH v5.0 during my main stage presentation at IBC... that's old news... ; )

(and it's RED material - does not require big fast RAID.)

Lucas

[Paolo Tinari]

So? The announcement, i mean.

[Chris Parker]

my guess......ScratchCine for MAC......fully functional with Red Rocket.

okay, maybe that's my DREAM. but anyways.....

[MichaelHalsell]

my guess......ScratchCine for MAC......fully functional with RED Rocket™.

okay, maybe that's my DREAM. but anyways.....

Intriguing! I would be down for that or it could be..................

[Shane Betts]

Scratch on Mac? Wouldn't hold my breath.

BTW, I'm sure it's a great product Lucas and all the best with it but why is Assimilate posting product promotions on Crucial Ordnance? Shouldn't this thread be bumped to the accessories or workflow forums? Just sayin'.

[Lucas Wilson]

Scratch on Mac? Wouldn't hold my breath.

BTW, I'm sure it's a great product Lucas and all the best with it but why is Assimilate posting product promotions on Crucial Ordnance? Shouldn't this thread be bumped to the accessories or workflow forums? Just sayin'.

Hey Shane...

Jarred / Jason (and the RED crew) are aware of what we are doing, and they think it's tied closely enough and is important enough for the RED workflow that they agreed to post it here when I asked. It will be removed a few days after the 5PM PST announcement tomorrow.

...and besides, did I say anywhere that it was just ASSIMILATE? ; )

Best,

Lucas

[Shane Betts]

:smilewinkgrin:OK, I'm intrigued...

[Kaku Ito]

Luki,

Looking forward for the announcement!

[Chris Parker]

exciting shit

[Emery Wells]

...and besides, did I say anywhere that it was just ASSIMILATE? ; )

Best,

Lucas

It's official... RED to acquire Assimilate. :)

[MichaelHalsell]

It's official... RED to acquire Assimilate. :)

Emery, you're funny!

[Torrey Loomis]

You guys are going to be blown away. I know I was.

I had to ask Lucas directly if I had read it wrong. He said I had not.

Just wait for the announcement...

Torrey
-----------------------------------------------
Torrey Loomis
President & CEO - Silverado Systems, Inc.
(916) 760-0032 •*FAX (916) 404-5258
torrey@silverado.cc
http://www.Silverado.cc

Silverado Twitter at*http://www.twitter.com/silveradosys
StudioBuilder blog at*http://silveradosys.blogspot.com

[Sanjin Jukic]

We already showed full RED Rocket™™™™™ integration in SCRATCH v5.0 during my main stage presentation at IBC... that's old news... ; )

(and it's RED material - does not require big fast RAID.)

Lucas

Luki,

sory I missed your main Scratch presentation at IBC because I entered a bit later at the IBC theatre in a middle of RED footage screening.

Btw, don't talk longer with any attractive woman on trade show, they just taking your time :001_tt1:

Looking forward to try out that Scratch on a Mac with RR application.

[Chris Parker]

well, it doesn't seem to be mac-based. but a good deal nontheless........

[Tim Whitcomb]

well, it doesn't seem to be mac-based. but a good deal nontheless........

what deal? its not announced until 5PM? do you have a scoop?

[Monty Bass]

Dude I am stoked!

[Fredrik Harreschou]

http://www.fxguide.com/qt/1614/assimilate-announces-rocket-fuel

[MichaelHalsell]

That's a pretty big deal. Turnkey solution. This sounds like a solution for me.

[Tim Whitcomb]

Ok, found another post http://hardware.broadcastnewsroom.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=871616

So, Ok, but how is this different from Rocket Cine-x and upcoming Redcine-X?

Its sill not a DI solution. Just a DI prep system for Scratch and other systems liek QUantel, who already announced Red Rocket Support and integration.

I get real time dailies with my Rocket now. And I still have to buy a PC to run this right?

Lucas or someone, not being a buzz kill, just don/t understand how this is HUGE?
Especially for us "mostly MAC" guys. Isnt most of this the result of the red rocket?

Someone please break this down... thanks!

[Stacey Spears]

Prior to this deal, the SCRATCH-CINE software was ~$19k. Now you get the software, pluse the REDRocket card and an SDI capable graphics card for $11k. Sounds like a great deal.

[Chris Parker]

the DEAL is great indeed. i was hoping it would be offered as a mac application too though.....ah well.

[mikeburton]

Lucas, what kind of minimum hardware specs on the PC is assimilate recommending for a fully functional system with RocketFuel? Can you explain how the 3800 SDI card works in this system? Is it just for monitoring and outputing for the SDI feature or does it actually play a role in the realtime performance? I would assume the Rocket by itself would be able to get the realtime performance out of REDCODE but I could be mistaken here. Also, 64bit is awesome and running under windows 7 will be great!
Also, I already have a 4800 Quadro FX card without the SDI. Does the 3800 SDI module work with the 4800 Quadro FX card?

Thanks!

[Lucas Wilson]

Lucas, what kind of minimum hardware specs on the PC is assimilate recommending for a fully functional system with RocketFuel? Can you explain how the 3800 SDI card works in this system? Is it just for monitoring and outputing for the SDI feature or does it actually play a role in the realtime performance? I would assume the Rocket by itself would be able to get the realtime performance out of REDCODE but I could be mistaken here. Also, 64bit is awesome and running under windows 7 will be great!
Also, I already have a 4800 Quadro FX card without the SDI. Does the 3800 SDI module work with the 4800 Quadro FX card?

Thanks!

I will explain all.... at 5PM. ; )

The Rocket Fuel announcement is a big part of what is launching today... but there is more... your questions will be answered... : )

Lucas

[Frank Cueto]

And when is this shipping?
I happen to be on the market for such a solution for on set monitoring/QC/Dailies.

-Frank

[Lucas Wilson]

And when is this shipping?
I happen to be on the market for such a solution for on set monitoring/QC/Dailies.

-Frank

Hey Frank - in a couple of hours, you'll know. Thanks for your patience...

Lucas

[MichaelHalsell]

I will explain all.... at 5PM. ; )

The Rocket Fuel announcement is a big part of what is launching today... but there is more... your questions will be answered... : )

Lucas

Sweeeeet!

[Sanjin Jukic]

What about if I have RR already?

Are there are more bundles coming up in that direction?

[mikeburton]

I will explain all.... at 5PM. ; )

The Rocket Fuel announcement is a big part of what is launching today... but there is more... your questions will be answered... : )

Lucas

Sweet! Thanks Lucas!

[Scott Webster]

Studio Daily Report
http://www.studiodaily.com/main/news/prc/11390.html (http://www.studiodaily.com/main/news/prc/11390.html)

[Jason Diamond]

Sounds like someone's learning some tricks from Jim! hahaha

[Marcelo Julião Paiva]

http://www.fxguide.com/qt/1614/assimilate-announces-rocket-fuel#more-1614

Nice!

[Tim Whitcomb]

I will explain all.... at 5PM. ; )

The Rocket Fuel announcement is a big part of what is launching today... but there is more... your questions will be answered... : )

Lucas

Glad I am on the west coast :) thanks Lucas. Looking forward to it.

[Simon Blackledge]

Is this a full scratch for r3ds only?

Lucas can we get some clarification on what it won't do. Not being negative the deal sound great.

I just think alot of people need to know what you can't do.

Prepping dalies and conforms from red it's an awesome price point
pretty amazing really.

But the indie quote. Who is going to do an indie and never need to export to d a fix as dpx or whatever to fix some shot and if you do, do you then basically need a scratch as it's mixed media?

I just think people will want to know what this will give them above redcine-x with a rr if say they don't have a full scratch and this is a prep suite.

Is there a comparison chart maybe with scratch? I know it's modular but still may ease any confusion.

[Tim Whitcomb]

5:50 pm PST.

just sayin.

[MichaelHalsell]

Is this the correct thread for further announcements?

[Frank Cueto]

Tick Tock...

[Scott Webster]

Lucas Wilson announces more bundles of Assimilate Rocket Fuel. One w/ HP Z400 at $12,898. One w/ Wrangler Pro $18,995 Via Twitter

[Lucas Wilson]

Hi all,

The "other half" of the announcement is that Rocket Fuel does not operate in a vacuum. Rocket Fuel goes into a... Rocket. Systems are fueled by this.

And quietly, over the past few months, we have been working hard with our systems and reseller partners to create turnkey hardware/software bundles that are ready to go and priced accordingly.

Keycode Media - our 2009 Reseller of the Year - announced a bundle with an HP Z400 powered by Rocket Fuel for US$12,898 turnkey. Financing (once approved) is less than US$450/month.

1Beyond has announced their Wrangler portable system - an incredible on-set system solution powered by Rocket Fuel for just at US$18,500 turnkey.

There are many others, but those are two examples.

Our goal here was to provide realtime, full resolution, full quality 4K R3D workflow at a pricepoint that works for everyone...

We hope you agree.

Best,

Lucas Wilson
--------------
ASSIMILATE, inc.
LA, CA, USA

[mikeburton]

Hi all,

The "other half" of the announcement is that Rocket Fuel does not operate in a vacuum. Rocket Fuel goes into a... Rocket. Systems are fueled by this.

And quietly, over the past few months, we have been working hard with our systems and reseller partners to create turnkey hardware/software bundles that are ready to go and priced accordingly.

Keycode Media - our 2009 Reseller of the Year - announced a bundle with an HP Z400 powered by Rocket Fuel for US$12,898 turnkey. Financing (once approved) is less than US$450/month.

1Beyond has announced their Wrangler portable system - an incredible on-set system solution powered by Rocket Fuel for just at US$18,500 turnkey.

There are many others, but those are two examples.

Our goal here was to provide realtime, full resolution, full quality 4K R3D workflow at a pricepoint that works for everyone...

We hope you agree.

Best,

Lucas Wilson
--------------
ASSIMILATE, inc.
LA, CA, USA

Sounds good, now what about the details? I had a few questions earlier that I would love to know the answers to if possible.

[Tim Whitcomb]

Sounds good, now what about the details? I had a few questions earlier that I would love to know the answers to if possible.

me too :)

1. How does it compare (feature wise) to a Red Rocket with Rocket Cine-X and Recine- X (advanced alpha and exiting as hell)?

2. This is basically Scratch-cine on steroids at an incredibly reduced price point. That is cool. Thanks.

3. You answered the cost of the PC kit required to use it.

We own a Red Rocket and its been phenomenal as a daily/check solution.
And exports wonderfully to prores4444.

4. This sounds like an incredible prep tool for Scratch 5.0. How will it benefit those of us using FCP3 on Snow Leopard with a MAXX digital EVO2K 8TB raid (roughly 900ms, read/write) Kona 3, ATI4870 16GB RAM. 2.93 8-Core latest Mac Pro. Dreamcolor with HD-SDI to HDMI1.3 10 bit input from HD-SDI port on Red Rocket?

Thanks so much, especially for the price concession. Very cool.

[Yohance Brown]

Lucas I'd love to see the official Assimilate press release on this this product. Until then let me see if I understand the product, it's implications and how it is differs from Running a system with Red Cine X and a Red Rocket Card.

Rocket Fuel is Scratch Cine v.5 with a Red Rocket Card and Nvidea SDI graphic card.

With the Red Rocket card - we can playback 4k in real time and render up to 4k dpx in real time. (we can do that in Red Cine X)

With the SDI card - we can properly monitor our color corrected dailies on a broadcast monitor. (can't do that with Red Cine X)

With Scratch Cine X - a colorist like myself can color time dailies with a control surface like the Tangent Wave. (can't do that with Red Cine X)

With Scratch Cine X - I can do a full conform taking an edl from fcp or avid. Then I can export the conformed project to a file format of my choice like dpx for final color correct on a color system of my choice. (can't do that with Red Cine X)

If I missed anything please let me know.

I'd also like to hear more about the Rocket Fuel Bundles. I heard of a HP Z400 bundle for $12,898. A Wrangler Pro bundle for $18,995. Can you expound.

[Tim Whitcomb]

Lucas I'd love to see the official Assimilate press release on this this product. Until then let me see if I understand the product, it's implications and how it is differs from Running a system with Red Cine X and a RED Rocket™™ Card.

Rocket Fuel is Scratch Cine v.5 with a RED Rocket™™ Card and Nvidea SDI graphic card.

With the RED Rocket™™ card - we can playback 4k in real time and render up to 4k dpx in real time. (we can do that in Red Cine X)

With the SDI card - we can properly monitor our color corrected dailies on a broadcast monitor. (can't do that with Red Cine X)

With Scratch Cine X - a colorist like myself can color time dailies with a control surface like the Tangent Wave. (can't do that with Red Cine X)

With Scratch Cine X - I can do a full conform taking an edl from fcp or avid. Then I can export the conformed project to a file format of my choice like dpx for final color correct on a color system of my choice. (can't do that with Red Cine X)

If I missed anything please let me know.

I'd also like to hear more about the Rocket Fuel Bundles. I heard of a HP Z400 bundle for $12,898. A Wrangler Pro bundle for $18,995. Can you expound.

Thanks Yohance.

A. You CAN properly monitor footage on a broadcast monitor out of Redrocket via HD-SDI to HDMI 1.3 AJA converter. We are now at 10bit and clean on scopes via Rocketcine-X to Dreamcolor. Also works to Panny 11 Pro Plasma. What am I missing here?

B. We don't know if Euphonix or others wont create a 3rd party app for integrating control surfaces to Redcine-X, like they are with FCS3. I could envision it though, especially with RED's proclaiming such in previous threads. But right now, correct.

C. But can't you do that now in FCP3 with dpx to color? Rocketcine-X soon to be able to export to dpx, Tiff, etc.

thanks

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Also works to Panny 11 Pro Plasma. What am I missing here?

Panny 11 Pro plasmas don't accept 10bit input over HDMI... 8bit only. :emote_headwall:

[Tim Whitcomb]

Panny 11 Pro plasmas don't accept 10bit input over HDMI... 8bit only. :emote_headwall:

I meant with the dual link HD-SDI card... but that sucks. Even with the new AJA? hmm. Dreamcolor does and other than off-access being weak. its killer for the $ imho for our work.

Im hoping Panny 12 and board is an uptick.

[Yohance Brown]

Thanks Yohance.

A. You CAN properly monitor footage on a broadcast monitor out of Redrocket via HD-SDI to HDMI 1.3 AJA converter. We are now at 10bit and clean on scopes via Rocketcine-X to Dreamcolor. Also works to Panny 11 Pro Plasma. What am I missing here?

B. We don't know if Euphonix or others wont create a 3rd party app for integrating control surfaces to Redcine-X, like they are with FCS3. I could envision it though, especially with RED's proclaiming such in previous threads. But right now, correct.

C. But can't you do that now in FCP3 with dpx to color? Rocketcine-X soon to be able to export to dpx, Tiff, etc.

thanks

C. But can't you do that now in FCP3 with dpx to color? Rocketcine-X soon to be able to export to dpx, Tiff, etc.

Yes. you can if you have tuns of time to waste.
1. If you want to work directly from the R3ds you will need to use Apple Color to debayer and convert to DPX. This is horribly slow. Just ask Mike Curtis http://tiny.cc/F5wMp

2. If you go with the ProRes4444 workflow you will need to use the Red Log and Transfer function in FCP which will convert your r3ds to ProRes4444. Then you can export your dpx but this also is slow.



B. We don't know if Euphonix or others wont create a 3rd party app for integrating control surfaces to Redcine-X, like they are with FCS3. I could envision it though, especially with RED's proclaiming such in previous threads. But right now, correct.


That's very big if. Until then Red Cine X peeps are stuck with dragging handles. Nothing wrong with that Ive done dailies like that however I've done dailies with control surfaces also and working with a surface is far superior to dragging handles.


You CAN properly monitor footage on a broadcast monitor out of Redrocket via HD-SDI to HDMI 1.3 AJA converter. We are now at 10bit and clean on scopes via Rocketcine-X to Dreamcolor. Also works to Panny 11 Pro Plasma. What am I missing here?


I understand the HD-SDI to converter to Dreamcolor. How you get a 10bit signal from RocketCineX to your HD-SDI card?

[Meryem Ersoz]

Lucas, can you put the announcement in post #1 - perhaps along with an explanation. This thread is more confusing than clarifying... thanks...

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I meant with the dual link HD-SDI card... but that sucks. Even with the new AJA? hmm. Dreamcolor does and other than off-access being weak. its killer for the $ imho for our work.

Im hoping Panny 12 and board is an uptick.

Yeah, the 11-series takes 10bit via HD-SDI. Anyway, don't want to hijack this thread, plenty of complaining about this elsewhere. A lot of us have high hopes for the 12 series.

[Lucas Wilson]

Lucas, what kind of minimum hardware specs on the PC is assimilate recommending for a fully functional system with RocketFuel? Can you explain how the 3800 SDI card works in this system? Is it just for monitoring and outputing for the SDI feature or does it actually play a role in the realtime performance? I would assume the Rocket by itself would be able to get the realtime performance out of REDCODE but I could be mistaken here. Also, 64bit is awesome and running under windows 7 will be great!
Also, I already have a 4800 Quadro FX card without the SDI. Does the 3800 SDI module work with the 4800 Quadro FX card?

Thanks!

Mike,

Minimum hardware specs are different depending on what you want to do. Do you also have an editorial package running on the system? Do you have VFX running on the system... etc. That is exactly why we partner with companies who do integration for a living - so they can tailor systems to specific needs. Tell me where you live and I'll hook you up with our partner in that area.

And - the SDI module will work with both the 3800 and 4800 - so if you get a 3800 SDI as part of Rocket Fuel, the SDI card will also work with your 4800.

Lucas
------
ASSIMILATE, inc.
LA, CA, USA

[Lucas Wilson]

Lucas I'd love to see the official Assimilate press release on this this product. Until then let me see if I understand the product, it's implications and how it is differs from Running a system with Red Cine X and a RED Rocket™ Card.

Rocket Fuel is Scratch Cine v.5 with a RED Rocket™ Card and Nvidea SDI graphic card.

With the RED Rocket™ card - we can playback 4k in real time and render up to 4k dpx in real time. (we can do that in Red Cine X)

With the SDI card - we can properly monitor our color corrected dailies on a broadcast monitor. (can't do that with Red Cine X)

With Scratch Cine X - a colorist like myself can color time dailies with a control surface like the Tangent Wave. (can't do that with Red Cine X)

With Scratch Cine X - I can do a full conform taking an edl from fcp or avid. Then I can export the conformed project to a file format of my choice like dpx for final color correct on a color system of my choice. (can't do that with Red Cine X)

If I missed anything please let me know.

I'd also like to hear more about the Rocket Fuel Bundles. I heard of a HP Z400 bundle for $12,898. A Wrangler Pro bundle for $18,995. Can you expound.

Hey Yohance,

Yep - that's all correct. As for the bundles, the HP Z400 bundle is run by Keycode Media. Contact Pat Howley at Keycode for details. The Wrangler Pro bundle is run by 1Beyond, and contact Rony at 1Beyond for details.

Lucas

[mikeburton]

Mike,

Minimum hardware specs are different depending on what you want to do. Do you also have an editorial package running on the system? Do you have VFX running on the system... etc. That is exactly why we partner with companies who do integration for a living - so they can tailor systems to specific needs. Tell me where you live and I'll hook you up with our partner in that area.

And - the SDI module will work with both the 3800 and 4800 - so if you get a 3800 SDI as part of Rocket Fuel, the SDI card will also work with your 4800.

Lucas
------
ASSIMILATE, inc.
LA, CA, USA

Thanks Lucas! Appreciate the response.

[jimhare]

Hey Lucas, exciting stuff! What if we already have a Red Rocket? I suppose I could sell it.

[gbalaji]

Rocket Fuel...

Looking forward....

[Simon Blackledge]

[COLOR="Orange"]C.


I understand the HD-SDI to converter to Dreamcolor. How you get a 10bit signal from RocketCineX to your HD-SDI card?

RedRocket has Dual SDi Out, no need for a gfx card with sdi.

s

[Sanjin Jukic]

Assimilate would earn "fortune of money" if they would customize/cut Scratch Cine for extreme

laptop use on set that could be done even on Apple MacBook Pro "17 (as I showed Scratch on MBP here a year and half ago).

What does it mean?

It means something like a custom or cut version of Scratch Cine but just for dailies to use it on set with native REDCODE RAW,

integrated real time on set fast grading dailies using Tangent Wave and RED Rocket™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™.

Finishing and conform capabilities would be probably limited because of Scratch main app that only has full finishing/conform option and would be left to dedicated desktop turnkey Scratch system.

An ideal price for that Scratch Cine Mobile a software only package should be about US $ 2.500 per license key.

With that combo: Laptop (MBP 17"), RR with Magma/Pocket Rocket/Maxx Digital REDRocket mobile box, Wave, HP DreamColor and AJA HI5 3G HD-SDI/SDI

to HDMI 1.3a Video and Audio Converter you can show (with a bit of real-time grading) dailies shot on RED1 to customer at any hotel room.

That could be a real ROCKET FUEL.

[Yohance Brown]

RedRocket has Dual SDi Out, no need for a gfx card with sdi.

s


that's right. forgot about that. btw did i just make up a new product "Rocket Cine X" lol.

Hey Lucas Sanjin Jukic brought up a good question. Will Assimilate be selling Scratch Cine v5 as a stand alone software outside of the Rocket Fuel bundle?

[Adam Glick]

You still need a Quadro SDI card if you want to go out SDI -

[Lucas Wilson]

RedRocket has Dual SDi Out, no need for a gfx card with sdi.

s

1) How will you sync the RR card in a facility?
2) How will you use machine control with RR?
3) If you are a Windows person, how will you use RR SDI out at all right now?

The RR SDI out certainly has its place.

But if you are trying to do tape dailies for a feature, or layoff a master, or integrate into a facility - it does not solve all your problems.

Lucas

[Lucas Wilson]

Assimilate would earn "fortune of money" if they would customize/cut Scratch Cine for extreme laptop use on set...

1Beyond's system is specifically designed for on-set use. We are also working with MAXX Digital and they will have a solution targeted at Rocket Fuel. The MAXX guys were at our 5PM announcement yesterday, and they were very excited about it...


integrated real time on set fast grading dailies using Tangent Wave and RED Rocket

...available with Rocket Fuel. : )


Finishing and conform capabilities would be probably limited because of Scratch main app that only has full finishing/conform option and would be left to dedicated desktop turnkey Scratch system.

SCRATCH-CINE has the same EDL conform capability with R3D that the full SCRATCH package has.


An ideal price for that ...

We believe Rocket Fuel is an incredible deal, and opens up RED Post Production to a very wide group of people who could not access it before, but there will always be people who want things done differently. And that is why there are lots of other tools out there!

But for those that want an inexpensive, accessible way to do full resolution, full quality R3D post-production - ASSIMILATE and its partners are providing several ways of doing that powered by Rocket Fuel.

Best,

Lucas

[Bob Torrance]

Hey Lucas, exciting stuff! What if we already have a RED Rocket™™? I suppose I could sell it.

Lucas,

I too would like to know about getting a setup but already have a card.

Bob Torrance

[Lucas Wilson]

Lucas,

I too would like to know about getting a setup but already have a card.

Bob Torrance

Bob - please contact me offlist at lucas (at) assimilateinc (dot) com.

Lucas

[Sanjin Jukic]

Lucas,

what ever you said it's maybe right from Assimilate point of view, but from an average RedUser point

it looks more like a Rocket Monopole then a Rocket Fuel just because is not gonna be fuel for the most of us.

Hopefully that some other developers soon would get the thing more in our direction and do it right.

[John Jonathan]

No offense to Luki or Assimilate, but that logo is so atrocious, I thought we are all film makers here not wanna be bikers who shop at HOT TOPIC in the mall?

I am looking into Scratch 5, but if my client has to look at that logo, rather than something more sophisticated then they are going to question my billing.

Hope that is not the new look of Assimilate.

[Lucas Wilson]

Lucas,

what ever you said it's maybe right from Assimilate point of view, but from an average RedUser point

it looks more like a Rocket Monopole then a Rocket Fuel just because is not gonna be fuel for the most of us.

Hopefully that some other developers soon would get the thing more in our direction and do it right.

Judging from the 100+ emails I've received today from "average Redusers," it seems like we're doing it right so far!

I will be posting more configurations and pricing early next week from other reseller and hardware partners. The response has been amazing. Everything from SAN solutions to on-set tools... powered by Rocket Fuel.

Best,

Lucas



Lucas

[Yohance Brown]

No offense to Luki or Assimilate, but that logo is so atrocious, I thought we are all film makers here not wanna be bikers who shop at HOT TOPIC in the mall?

I am looking into Scratch 5, but if my client has to look at that logo, rather than something more sophisticated then they are going to question my billing.

Hope that is not the new look of Assimilate.


You can always change the background image in scratch to anything you like. Most people just place their own logos in its place.

[Emery Wells]

No offense to Luki or Assimilate, but that logo is so atrocious, I thought we are all film makers here not wanna be bikers who shop at HOT TOPIC in the mall?

I am looking into Scratch 5, but if my client has to look at that logo, rather than something more sophisticated then they are going to question my billing.

Hope that is not the new look of Assimilate.

Seriously? Priority check in isle 3.

[Sanjin Jukic]

Judging from the 100+ emails I've received today from "average Redusers," it seems like we're doing it right so far!

I will be posting more configurations and pricing early next week from other reseller and hardware partners. The response has been amazing. Everything from SAN solutions to on-set tools... powered by Rocket Fuel.

Best,

Lucas



Lucas

Luki,

I can guess that you are just a representative in Assimilate and can't make decisions and I understand this.

Also I thought that Assimilate finally wants to sell a few 1000+ seats just because it is a software developer company.

But maybe I'm totally wrong here.

Looking forward to your announcement with some more options.

Said before I do have RR already and also was successfully evaluating Scratch 3.6 on my MBP 17" almost year and half ago.

In "the age of RR" I would like to have Scratch (5.0, even limited edition) as a software only to use it for on set dailies

presentation combined with Wave, big Panasonic plasma, HP Dreamcolor, AJA Hi-3G HDSDI 1.3a converter, etc...

Assimilate's best "business" partners should be actually its customers.

[Shane Betts]

Seriously? Priority check in isle 3.

Ha ha! Quote of the day.

[Simon Blackledge]

1) How will you sync the RR card in a facility?
2) How will you use machine control with RR?
3) If you are a Windows person, how will you use RR SDI out at all right now?

The RR SDI out certainly has its place.

But if you are trying to do tape dailies for a feature, or layoff a master, or integrate into a facility - it does not solve all your problems.

Lucas

Totally agree Lucas, was just saying it has sdi :-/

s

[Simon Blackledge]

Just wondering if there was a Module available for RocketCine/Fuel to at least allow loading of DPX as well as R3D files would that hit the Scratch sales that much?

Solely for the purpose of just playback.

[Emery Wells]

Luki,

I can guess that you are just a representative in Assimilate and can't make decisions and I understand this.

Also I thought that Assimilate finally wants to sell a few 1000+ seats just because it is a software developer company.

But maybe I'm totally wrong here.

Looking forward to your announcement with some more options.

Said before I do have RR already and also was successfully evaluating Scratch 3.6 on my MBP 17" almost year and half ago.

In "the age of RR" I would like to have Scratch (5.0, even limited edition) as a software only to use it for on set dailies

presentation combined with Wave, big Panasonic plasma, HP Dreamcolor, AJA Hi-3G HDSDI 1.3a converter, etc...

Assimilate's best "business" partners should be actually its customers.

This is a misguided post. First of all Assimialte is a small company and Lucas has a lot of say in what products they push out. More important however, the product you are asking for is almost exactly what they released. If you add up the hardware costs in these bundles, you'll see they are selling Scratch Cine for about the same price you are asking for. Scratch on a laptop without a rocket card is pretty useless. Take it from me, someone who has struggled with liquid cooled, over clocked machines for our full Scratch suite. We have a hard enough time guaranteeing a level of performance on these machines. A macbook without a rocket card/ nvidia SDI combo would be excruciatingly slow. You would not be able to play back footage, you would not be able to make tape dailies, you would not be able to get a 10 bit signal out to a calibrated display.

The Rocket will only output a debayered/scaled image that has been graded with the SDK controls. i.e. If you were to make a primary grade using the Scratch matrix module (which is available in Scratch Cine) that would not be able to be piped out of the rocket SDI. You *must* have the nvidia SDI daughter card for a quadro series card. Scratch is very heavily tied to the nvidia cards which is the primary reason we will never see a Mac version unless the nvidia drivers become available for Mac. The application is entirely GPU based.

What you are asking for doesn't exists today, but the Scratch Cine bundles come pretty darn close to hitting your price points.

[Sanjin Jukic]

Emery,

nothing is misguiding there.

My wish was to get just Scratch software package only and I can do a choice of hardware configuration myself.

Also I have already RR card.

But as I can see now it's not working like that.

[Yohance Brown]

Emery,

nothing is misguiding there.

My wish was to get just Scratch software package only and I can do a choice of hardware configuration myself.

Also I have already RR card.

But as I can see now it's not working like that.

If you are serious about getting the software and configuring your own hardware you should contact Lucas directly at lucas (at) assimilateinc (dot) com and see what you guys can work out. Otherwise people will interpret your posts as the usual forum whining.

[Tim Whitcomb]

Emery,

nothing is misguiding there.

My wish was to get just Scratch software package only and I can do a choice of hardware configuration myself.

Also I have already RR card.

But as I can see now it's not working like that.

Im in the same boat Sanjin-

I own a red rocket card already and would just like the effective "deal" on the software. But
who knows how/where Assimilate is getting the pricing help.

I'll email Lucas because this thread HAS answered a lot of my questions
and this solution sounds smart at our facility. Whether we go Scratch 5 or Quantel or any other Finishing system. It makes sense.

But not if I have to buy another RR. :(

[Sanjin Jukic]

If you are serious about getting the software and configuring your own hardware you should contact Lucas directly at lucas (at) assimilateinc (dot) com and see what you guys can work out. Otherwise people will interpret your posts as the usual forum whining.

I already evaluated Scratch 3.6; 3.7 and 3.9.

It worked quite good on MBP 17".

At that time the price didn't fit in my budget but now I saw that they cut it.

But again the whole new package still relays on a turnkey hardware.

In this case I do have my own hardware configuration idea and

I hoped that Scratch software as a standalone package is finally available to purchase

but unfortunately it is still not.

Who knows? Maybe will never be.

It's a pity!

That's all.

Have a look at Scratch 3.9 on my MBP 17":

http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/scratch-mbp.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/scratch-mbp-2.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/Scratch_Process.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/Scratch_Output.jpg

[Meryem Ersoz]

Also I have already RR card.

But as I can see now it's not working like that.

You are mistaken and should pay closer attention to the thread...Lucas has already requested private inquiries from people with RR cards, from which we can infer that he will work with RR owners.

[Emery Wells]

I already evaluated Scratch 3.6; 3.7 and 3.9.

It worked quite good on MBP 17".

At that time the price didn't fit in my budget but now I saw that they cut it.

But again the whole new package still relays on a turnkey hardware.

In this case I do have my own hardware configuration idea and

I hoped that Scratch software as a standalone package is finally available to purchase

but unfortunately it is still not.

Who knows? Maybe will never be.

It's a pity!

That's all.

Have a look at Scratch 3.9 on my MBP 17":

http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/scratch-mbp.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/scratch-mbp-2.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/Scratch_Process.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/Scratch_Output.jpg

Yes it will run on a macbook pro but for red work you *need* a more powerful system which is exactly what Assimilate has put together. I'll also say again that Scratch is absolutely tied to the nvidia quadro series with SDI card. You need the rocket *and* the quadro to get proper performance/output capabilities. The first Scratch Cine was sold as software only as well as in a bundle and Assimilate has not specifically mentioned this new offering would be any different. They are obviously pushing the bundle but you should talk to them to see if they have an offering closer to your liking. Let me just say this one more time: your macbook pro idea *will not work* for calibrated output because it lacks the nvidia quadro with SDI. The rocket is *only* used for debayering and SDK based grading. Scratch grading is done on the nvidia card and *only* output via the SDI card. The amount of money you would spend hacking a macbook to make that work would be on par with their bundled systems which are guaranteed to work and come with the oh so important support you will inevitably need.

[Stacey Spears]

I'll also say again that Scratch is absolutely tied to the nvidia quadro series with SDI card.

In theory, Display Port will work too. There is no WFM Display Port path, but you could go Display Port from a MBP into an HP DreamColor (properly calibrated, not what comes out of the box) and grade. You would have to rely on the v5 built-in WFM, but it may be possible.

[Carsten Kurz]

It really should be a no-issue to sell the existing RedRocket and get the full bundle. But that's not even neccesary if one just tries to get rid of preassumptions and READ this thread.
As of today, there simply is no 'notebook-only' 4k solution with even the slightest chance of productivity. Why would I care for an on-set hookup with a 17"MBP, Expresscard/PCI-E Extender chassis, RedRocket, external RAID, etc., on mains supply, if I can have a full system integrated within a decent tower machine + a useful choice of displays hooked on it? Makes no sense. It was time for RED Windows users to get a fast and price-sensitive realtime-solution and this Assimilate offer is an incredible value. Quite sure it will work on a bootcamp'd MacPro as well if one want's to switch temporarily e.g. from a FCP/Adobe OSX workflow to the specific on-set realtime options of this bundle.



- Carsten

[mikeburton]

I don't think it will work on a Macpro cause the NVidia Quadro FX cards aren't made for the macs accept the older 8 cores. So, you will need a PC.

[Carsten Kurz]

They can still rest there unused under OSX if so. But the 4800 does work on the Mac:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/product_quadro_fx_4800_for_mac_us.html

And Lucas said that the SDI module with their bundle works on 3800 as well as 4800.

- Carsten

[Sanjin Jukic]

They can still rest there unused under OSX if so.

- Carsten

Obviously you have another problem in terms of the platform war that has nothing to do with topic of this tread. Please, keep "the noise" as lower as possible!

[Carsten Kurz]

I don't have any interest in platform war, as I work with both systems daily by my free decision ;-)


- Carsten

[Lucas Wilson]

Obviously you have another problem in terms of the platform war that has nothing to do with topic of this tread. Please, keep "the noise" as lower as possible!

No platform war at all... the SDI card is not supported on OSX. Just fact.

Lucas

[Tim Whitcomb]

No platform war at all... the SDI card is not supported on OSX. Just fact.

Lucas

Lucas, I trust you have a lot of emails to go thru. Still wondering if there
is a bundle for those of us who already own a Red Rocket?

Thanks

[Sven Seynaeve]

I hope Assimilate stays to behave the way they are.
Different companies Supporting to many hardware has given me to much headaches and worries and if something goes wrong no one takes responability anymore. So I hope they stay on a stable platform (which doesn't mean they should'nt keep up with the latest hardware), but I rather prefer limitations and higher priced hardware , then a non trustable system afterwards causing to many problems.

[Lucas Wilson]

Lucas, I trust you have a lot of emails to go thru. Still wondering if there
is a bundle for those of us who already own a RED Rocket™?

Thanks

Tim... I'm looking in my Sent Mail, and I responded to you yesterday. : )

Did you not receive?

Lucas

[Tim Whitcomb]

Tim... I'm looking in my Sent Mail, and I responded to you yesterday. : )

Did you not receive?

Lucas

unfortunately no, neither on PM or direct mail. Please resend? Thanks Lucas

[Sanjin Jukic]

Luki,

agree there is no "any platform war" but if you could read between the lines of my posting here you could

conclude that I'm (all the time) asking for a limited, tailored and customized Scratch app for RED DIT use.

This Apple R3D DIT variant can't be priced at the point of USD10.000+ and sold as a turnkey together with several hardware partners.

What it is about?>>>

- The most RED DITs have Apple MBP 15" or 17" for many reasons...

- Apple MBPs at the newer line have NVIDIA GeForce 9400M that could be supported by Scratch in a sort of lower file conform/finishing output here...

- RED Rocket™™™™™™™™™™™ suppor of course...

- Limited or tailored finishing/conform possibility to Apple ProRes, Avid DNxHD and some other postproduction industry standard codec...

- Get opportunity to have for example GenArts Film Effects plug in to load (the best film stock simulation), Tangent Wave console (fast grade on set), etc,...

- Actually it's about a sort of tailored Scratch app that can be called even SCRATCH DIT, SCRATCH MOBILE, SCRATCH DAILIES, SCRATCH RUSHES or similar,...

- The price point should not be higher than between USD 2.500 to 3.000 because the most of DITs would not pay for more...

Also it would be I'm sure one of the best on set apps available (EVER!!!)...

Thats's it, I'm sure a lot of things here are missing but the "experts" can add of course some more things right now...

Also guaranteed market for this kind of Scratch app is about 1000 seats/license keys minimum and it would be immediate success with that volume (!!!)...

[Lucas Wilson]

Some cool new bundles coming in the next few days... !

Stay tuned...

Lucas

[Sanjin Jukic]

Some cool new bundles coming in the next few days... !

Stay tuned...

Lucas

Waiting!!!

:emote_popcorn: :emote_popcorn: :emote_popcorn:

[Chris Parker]

i love sanjin's idea.

[Carsten Kurz]

Well I guess it's obvious why we have these Assimilate Bundles - RED has supported the Mac platform a lot better so far and they would have had to spent their own ressources into a solid Windows based RED-ROCKET solution as well, while all windows users were still screaming for decent software-only options at a lower price point than a full assimilate suite.

I guess the Assimilate bundles now sort of balances that out and lowers the burden on REDs software department.

- Carsten

[Sanjin Jukic]

Well I guess it's obvious why we have these Assimilate Bundles - RED has supported the Mac platform a lot better so far and they would have had to spent their own ressources into a solid Windows based RED-ROCKET solution as well. I guess the Assimilate bundle sort of balances that out.

- Carsten

Finally everyone should know that:

"The first Macintosh computers containing Intel CPUs were announced on January 10, 2006...

And Apple can run Windows more that 3 years..."

[Lucas Wilson]

Finally everyone should know that:

"The first Macintosh computers containing Intel CPUs were announced on January 10, 2006...

And Apple can run Windows more that 3 years..."


Sanjin,

We understand you want it on a Mac. And that's cool. I'm glad you like SCRATCH so much to be this passionate about it. Until the SDI drivers for the NVidia cards are supported on OSX, it doesn't make much sense for us.

SCRATCH is a Windows product, and this bundle is targeted at Windows users. We cannot please everyone all the time, but judging from the hundreds of responses I've had on this, we are at least taking steps in the right direction.

This thread is primarily for information regarding Rocket Fuel, Rocket Fuel's availability, pricing, etc.

If you want to discuss SCRATCH on a Mac, please start a new thread on it and quit hijacking this one. : )

Thanks,

Lucas

[Sanjin Jukic]

Luki,

:patriot::patriot::patriot:

[mikeburton]

Hey Lucas,

Will there just be a ScratchCine Software only purchase or maybe, SDI & Software, or REDROCKET & Software only?

[Lucas Wilson]

Hey Lucas,

Will there just be a ScratchCine Software only purchase or maybe, SDI & Software, or REDROCKET & Software only?

Hi All,

I've been getting a lot of questions from people who already own a RED Rocket card and are wondering if we will do anything for them.

The answer is "Yes... but you have to rethink things a bit."

What we're doing is... Rocket Fuel for $10,999.

Unfortunately, we cannot "break" the bundle on this deal and only sell the graphics card + software.

The list price for SCRATCH-CINE is US$17,500.
The list price for the 3800-SDI is about US$6,000.

But Rocket Fuel's price is US$10,999.

So look at it this way:

With Rocket Fuel, we're offering SCRATCH-CINE software and the SDI card at more than a 50% discount off current MSRP... plus there is a free RED Rocket card tossed in. If you forget for a minute about the concept of "buying an extra RED Rocket" and focus on the raw currency involved, it is still an amazing deal.

Best,

Lucas Wilson
--------------
ASSIMILATE, inc.
LA, CA, USA

lucas (at) assimilateinc (dot) com

[Carsten Kurz]

And Apple can run Windows more that 3 years..."
[/COLOR][/I]

Thanks for notifying, Sanjin, but I think I mentioned Bootcamp a few posts earlier. Why don't you give it a try - instead of urging a Windows based software producer to adopt a new platform?


- Carsten

[Lucas Wilson]

Thanks for notifying, Sanjin, but I think I mentioned Bootcamp a few posts earlier. Why don't you give it a try - instead of urging a Windows based software producer to adopt a new platform?


- Carsten

Carsten,

Appreciate the support, but... move this to a new thread. :)

Tx,

Lucas

[HD Hildebrand]

Is there a way to see a demo of how this all works - perhaps an online video demonstrating the workflow, hardware and software in order to evaluate. I'm very interested, but I want to know how this can best fit into my game plan.

Cheers,
Dale

[Carsten Kurz]

Yes, some more of a functional description of modules, etc. would be very useful.

- Carsten

[Andrae Palmer]

This sounds like an incredible deal... I'm blown away by this. Basically a new buyer would now be getting Scratch Cine for free, If the cost of the REDRocket card and Nvidia card is roughly equated to $11k alone. Heck I'm in.

[ericyoung]

I'm a Mac newbie - if I understand correctly from skim reading all these posts, Apple's long out of date Nvidia drivers don't support the necessary SDI card for the Rocket Fuel bundle.

But what about one of the Windows OS's on Mac via Bootcamp? Can Scratch Cine be run in Bootcamp at full performance level? Not possible?

[Lucas Wilson]

I'm a Mac newbie - if I understand correctly from skim reading all these posts, Apple's long out of date Nvidia drivers don't support the necessary SDI card for the Rocket Fuel bundle.

But what about one of the Windows OS's on Mac via Bootcamp? Can Scratch Cine be run in Bootcamp at full performance level? Not possible?

Eric,

Well... here's the thing. That might be possible, except...

1) The minute you put an SDI card into the system, you completely invalidate the Apple warranty. That might not bother some people, but...

2) When you put an SDI card into a Tower, OSX will not boot. (not that I've ever tried that - because that would invalidate the warranty!!) The only way to make the card "not" an SDI, is to open the system and disconnect the ribbon cable that connects the primary card to the SDI card. And that is sort of a dealkiller.

So, until Apple supports the SDI drivers for the NVidia, which I personally don't believe they will ever do, we will remain a Windows product.

Best,

Lucas

Lucas Wilson
------------
Director, Business Development
ASSIMILATE, inc.
LA, CA, USA

lucas (at) assimilateinc (dot) com

[Kaku Ito]

We financed ourselves to expand our equipment list.

Rocket Fuel is definitely on the list to purchase.

[Stephen Gentle]

1) The minute you put an SDI card into the system, you completely invalidate the Apple warranty. That might not bother some people, but...

2) When you put an SDI card into a Tower, OSX will not boot. (not that I've ever tried that - because that would invalidate the warranty!!) The only way to make the card "not" an SDI, is to open the system and disconnect the ribbon cable that connects the primary card to the SDI card. And that is sort of a dealkiller.

Do you have a source for these, because I don't see how either can be true... How would putting a 3rd party graphics card in a computer void its warranty? And Mac OS X should still boot with one in, but at worst, if it doesn't have drivers, you may need another graphics card in there - so you could still have one in just for running Windows and another for Mac OS X. But its still possible (or even probable?) that it would work, just not with the SDI outputs...

[Hans von Sonntag]

I don't know about warranty voiding but I do know that with hardware that OSX does not understand booting the Mac won't work. AFAIK, all drivers necessary for the Apple products are included in OSX. In OSX have you ever installed a new driver for a non-recognized graphics card, sound card, etc...? A major part on Apple's philosophy is to make their products work in the most convenient and reliable way. While this is a virtue all Apple users appreciate it has a downside: no third party drivers.

No nvidia SDI on OSX is a pitty. I'm using a 5600fx on OSX on a daily basis and would be the first to purchase a nvidia SDI board. Apple considers the potential user base as to small plus bringing in a new SDI partner would harm the relationship to AJA.

Hans

[Lucas Wilson]

Do you have a source for these, because I don't see how either can be true... How would putting a 3rd party graphics card in a computer void its warranty? And Mac OS X should still boot with one in, but at worst, if it doesn't have drivers, you may need another graphics card in there - so you could still have one in just for running Windows and another for Mac OS X. But its still possible (or even probable?) that it would work, just not with the SDI outputs...

Directly from Apple's One Year Limited Warranty...
http://images.apple.com/legal/warranty/docs/cpuwarranty.pdf

"This warranty does not apply: ... (c) to damage caused by use with non-Apple products; ... (e) to damage caused by operating the product outside the permitted or intended uses described by Apple; (f) to damage caused by
service (including upgrades and expansions) performed by anyone who is not a representative of Apple or
an Apple Authorized Service Provider (“AASP”);"

If you need Warranty service, and Apple finds out you have installed an unsupported graphics card that did not come from Apple, then your warranty is invalidated.

If OSX sees incompatible graphics, it won't boot - you may be able to get VESA in Safe Mode, but that isn't very useful.

Lucas

[ericyoung]

Thanks for the clarification Lucas!

It's a shame Apple is so focused on volume, neglecting their high end users. While I understand the modification lock out, there should be a process for higher end users to officially push the boundaries - the pro range really is a misnomer when it stops people doing legitimate stuff with Apple gear. Do Apple read this forum I wonder...

[Carsten Kurz]

Installing an unsupported card does only void the warranty IF it damages the computer. So far I can't see that installing a card that works on the same machine under native windows does that.

You can connect all sorts of possibly non-Apple products without known driver support to a Mac - USB devices, WLAN/BT Equipment etc. That alone doesn't void the warranty. That's what these interfaces (incl. PCI/PC-E) are made for. Because then, installing 3rdparty RAID cards, RR, etc. would void the warranty as well at the moment of installation.

But if the Mac really won't boot with the SDI card connected, that is no damage - but the discussion is useless then. However, it would be a possible way to disconnect the SDI board temporarily for OS X use, since the MacPros can be opened very easily.
Of course, an additional PC to operate the bundle wouldn't be that expensive (like the cheapest turnkey system). The problem is you would have to exchange RR card every time when switching platforms.
Well, depending on the situation, two machines may still give you better working options from time to time even if the RR is NOT installed in the MacPro.
Having the option for a RR/OSX and RocketFuel/W7 within the same machine would still be desirable for certain clients.
Maybe someone will find out about that sooner or later. Or, hopefully, we will see SDI card support from Apple or NVIDIA.

- Carsten

[Lucas Wilson]

Or, hopefully, we will see SDI card support from Apple or NVIDIA.

We would certainly welcome that.

This is not an NVidia issue, fyi. Drivers for OSX are rolled into the OS install. Apple does their own drivers. Hardware companies provide Apple a low-level API, and then Apple does the rest of the work.

This is 100% an Apple decision.

Lucas

[Sanjin Jukic]

Sorry, I couldn't resist and must jump here again to add some of the facts just because of that you would not need to install "unsupported" NVIDIA card on MacPro:

SCRATCH® status of the following graphics hardware: (http://www.assimilateinc.com/graphicscards.html)

http://images.nvidia.com/products/quadro_fx_4800/Quadro_FX4800_bracket_med.png
- NVIDIA Quadro FX 4800 SDI>>> (http://www.nvidia.com/object/product_quadro_fx_4800_us.html)

http://images.nvidia.com/products/quadro_fx_4800_mac/Quadro_fx_4800_mac_med_b.png
- NVIDIA Quadro FX 4800 for Mac>>> (http://www.nvidia.com/object/product_quadro_fx_4800_for_mac_us.html)

"The Quadro FX 4800 ultra-high-end solution is now available for the Mac Pro,
giving architects, digital artists, medical scientists, and other professionals the right set of tools to
deliver results that push the realms of visualization. With Boot Camp, users can experience the full
features and accelerated performance of native Quadro 3D graphics when running professional Windows applications.
Designed, tested, and built by NVIDIA for the Mac Pro, Quadro FX 4800 gives professionals the visual supercomputing
power that they deserve from their desktops."



So what missing is

NVIDIA Quadro SDI Output option card>>> (http://www.nvidia.com/object/product_quadro_sdi_output_us.html)

http://images.nvidia.com/products/quadro_sdi_out/Quadro_SDI_bracket_med.png


It's only question about how Mac OSX BootCamp could "deal" with NVIDIA® Quadro® SDI Output card but on Snow Leopard BootCamp should be fine with that... (!!!???).

[Lucas Wilson]

Sorry, I couldn't resist and must jump here again to add some of the facts just because of that you would not need to install "unsupported" NVIDIA card on MacPro:

It's only question about how Mac OSX BootCamp could "deal" with NVIDIA® Quadro® SDI Output card but on Snow Leopard BootCamp should be fine with that... (!!!???).

For Rocket Fuel (the point of this thread) you need an SDI card.

Lucas

[Torrey Loomis]

This is not an NVidia issue, fyi. Drivers for OSX are rolled into the OS install. Apple does their own drivers. Hardware companies provide Apple a low-level API, and then Apple does the rest of the work.

This is 100% an Apple decision.

Lucas,

One note--there are new graphics cards being rolled out by Nvidia that Apple has not provided direct drivers for:

http://store.apple.com/us/product/TW387ZM/A

Sold on the Apple store and by resellers as well, but the drivers come on the CD in the box, not in the OS.

Torrey
-----------------------------------------------
Torrey Loomis
President & CEO - Silverado Systems, Inc.
(916) 760-0032 •*FAX (916) 404-5258
torrey@silverado.cc
http://www.Silverado.cc

Silverado Twitter at*http://www.twitter.com/silveradosys
StudioBuilder blog at*http://silveradosys.blogspot.com

[Lucas Wilson]

One note--there are new graphics cards being rolled out by Nvidia that Apple has not provided direct drivers for:


I stand corrected. Learn something new every day. Tx, Torrey.

Lucas

[Torrey Loomis]

I stand corrected. Learn something new every day. Tx, Torrey.

Well, since ratio of me getting schooled by you is 99:1 in your favor, I gleefully take every opportunity to get my $.02 in...

:-)

TL

[Torrey Loomis]

For folks thinking of trying the 4800 in the Mac, please note there are differences in the Mac and PC version of these cards. The Mac version has no support for the SDI card.

Torrey
-----------------------------------------------
Torrey Loomis
President & CEO - Silverado Systems, Inc.
(916) 760-0032 •*FAX (916) 404-5258
torrey@silverado.cc
http://www.Silverado.cc

Silverado Twitter at*http://www.twitter.com/silveradosys
StudioBuilder blog at*http://silveradosys.blogspot.com

[Lucas Wilson]

Hi all,

Rocket Fuel will be officially shipping very soon. Win7 x64 was released today, and there is now a stable, tested driver for the SDI cards under Win7 x64.

All of our hardware partners and resellers can officially sell Win7 products as of today. Systems are being built and getting ready to ship for the orders we have already taken.

Best,

Lucas

[Frank Cueto]

Can Something like Rocket Fuel™ take all my shots of a day, pregrade everything (basic look for dailies) and render out to mpeg-2 so i can burn Dailies DVD's?
We might be talking about 3-4 hours per day...

Also, can that pre-grade be exported as an RSX? I need to apply the same look to the prores versions of the footage thats sent to editorial.



Thanks

-Frank Cueto

[ericyoung]

...
NVIDIA Quadro SDI Output option card>>> (http://www.nvidia.com/object/product_quadro_sdi_output_us.html)
http://images.nvidia.com/products/quadro_sdi_out/Quadro_SDI_bracket_med.png
It's only question about how Mac OSX BootCamp could "deal" with NVIDIA® Quadro® SDI Output card but on Snow Leopard BootCamp should be fine with that... (!!!???).

I think from what Lucas has said, this wouldn't work with Scratch Cine, and even if it did, it would take up another slot in the MacPro. :-(

I just wanted to avoid buying both a top-of-the-range Windows PC as well as a max-ed out MacPro. Oh well...

[Lucas Wilson]

Can Something like Rocket Fuel™ take all my shots of a day, pregrade everything (basic look for dailies) and render out to mpeg-2 so i can burn Dailies DVD's? We might be talking about 3-4 hours per day...

Short answer - yes. But, SCRATCH-CINE does not directly render .mpg files. You can render to Quicktime, which has several mpg-style codecs.


Also, can that pre-grade be exported as an RSX? I need to apply the same look to the prores versions of the footage thats sent to editorial.


SCRATCH-CINE looks can be exported as 1D LUTs or 3D LUTs, but not as RSX. LUTs are a much more universal format and translate to many more systems.

Best,

Lucas

[Frank Cueto]

Can I load 3D-Luts into RedRushes to make my prores editorial QT's?
Or better said, how would you go about making ProRes QT's that have the look that the DoP and Director agreed upon ont he set using Rocket Fuel?
I really don.t want to be jumping thru too many hoops for this.

-Frank Cueto

[Lucas Wilson]

Can I load 3D-Luts into RedRushes to make my prores editorial QT's?
Or better said, how would you go about making ProRes QT's that have the look that the DoP and Director agreed upon ont he set using Rocket Fuel?
I really don.t want to be jumping thru too many hoops for this.

-Frank Cueto

The best way to do it with Rocket Fuel is to use REDCINE on set. REDCINE looks can be directly loaded into SCRATCH CINE.

Lucas

[Blair S. Paulsen]

I would like to use Rocket Fuel/Scratch Cine for 4K Dailies and 4K DI.

As I understand it, the RED Rocket™™ debayers the 4K r3ds and then the grading is driven by the nVidia GPU which also outputs the 2K or 1080 graded footage.

It has been suggested to use the nVidia Quadraplex which can drive a 4K display solution but I was recently told that the Quadraplex is not Windows 7 compatible. If that is true, and if Rocket Fuel is Windows 7 only, what's a 4K Ninja to do???

Cheers - #19

[Frank Cueto]

The best way to do it with Rocket Fuel is to use REDCINE on set. REDCINE looks can be directly loaded into SCRATCH CINE.

Lucas

But doesnt this defeat the purpose of having rocket fuel on set for realtime playback for my crew/clients?

-Frank Cueto

[Lucas Wilson]

But doesnt this defeat the purpose of having rocket fuel on set for realtime playback for my crew/clients?

-Frank Cueto

Yes.

I thought you were talking about a job that had already occured? I think I'm confused here... are you asking what's the best way to get looks to FCP with Rocket Fuel?

What workflow are you trying to accomplish?

Lucas

[Tim Whitcomb]

Yes.

I thought you were talking about a job that had already occured? I think I'm confused here... are you asking what's the best way to get looks to FCP with Rocket Fuel?

What workflow are you trying to accomplish?

Lucas

Lucas, I think a lot of us MAC users would like to know this (FCP workflow and Rocketfuel) and I believe this clarification would also help your sales... ;)

[Frank Cueto]

Here is the workflow I need to make work with Rocket Fuel.

1)Have my DoP, On Set, Roughly grade the footage. A take or two from each setup.
2)apply that look to all the takes that they deem neccesary ON-SET.
3)Render versions of all the footage (2-3 hours per day) to dvd compatible codec 720x480 with pulldown and audio from camera
4) somehow get that look into redrushes to make all my ProRes Editorial Quicktimes (since we can't do prores on windows stations)

I can make this work on the mac via red rocket, but its not a fully developed product, and I have my concerns abuot having a station on set that depends on beta software (RocketCine-X)

-Frank Cueto

[Curran Giddens]

This sounds like an incredible deal... I'm blown away by this. Basically a new buyer would now be getting Scratch Cine for free, If the cost of the REDRocket card and Nvidia card is roughly equated to $11k alone. Heck I'm in.

Yup. If RED announces that Epic-X is more than 4 or 5 months away I may have to jump on this deal. This is even better than what I and others were begging Luki for back when Assimilate had exclusive access.

[Frank Cueto]

No joy?

-Frank Cueto

[sebastian toro]

For Rocket Fuel (the point of this thread) you need an SDI card.

Lucas why do i need the SDI card? Can i monitor out through dvi or 10 bit dysplay port?

i am not talking about the deal, i would love to have it all but just for clarify...

thanks in advance

[Frank Cueto]

I have a feeling that scratch will grade using the GPU, and as such, it is highly unlikely or bandwidth intensiveto send all that data back to the Red Rocket, BUT the gpu card is designed to pass on the data (video) to its daughtercard... just a guess....

-Frank Cueto

[Dave Dessel]

I can certainly appreciate the value of what is being offered here. I work primarily in a file based workflow and don't lay anything back to tape until the end. Since there is no secondary color correction included in the package, what's the added value above using Red Rocket and RocketCine-X to create one-lites?

Why not render out flat Quicktime files with Red-Rocket, cut the show, and use Apple Color with it's powerful secondary room?

What are we buying here for the extra $7000 to $12,000 dollars over Red Rocket? Speed?

Perhaps including a limited amount of Scaffolds might be in order, perhaps something less than a full blown Scratch System. That would make the Rocket Fuel more appealing to those like myself who work mostly in HD. I'd really did the idea of working in Scratch-Cine at this price point, but I need some ability to do secondary color correction to make this work.


Respectfully,

Dave Dessel

[Chris Parker]

Here is the workflow I need to make work with Rocket Fuel.

1)Have my DoP, On Set, Roughly grade the footage. A take or two from each setup.
2)apply that look to all the takes that they deem neccesary ON-SET.
3)Render versions of all the footage (2-3 hours per day) to dvd compatible codec 720x480 with pulldown and audio from camera
4) somehow get that look into redrushes to make all my ProRes Editorial Quicktimes (since we can't do prores on windows stations)

I can make this work on the mac via RED Rocket™, but its not a fully developed product, and I have my concerns abuot having a station on set that depends on beta software (RocketCine-X)

-Frank Cueto

When does your shoot begin? If you are having to spit out ProRes files, you are better off going with the RocketCine I think, as you'd have only one station capable of handling your entire job.

I have the newest (unreleased) version of RocketCine-X and it seems to address most of the issues lacking in current release. If you are going to process in rushes you certainly could still apply color looks in RocketCine as it applies RSX files in each clip's folder. Then, when you process those clips in Rushes, your looks will be carried over.

I see Rocket Fuel as an AMAZING solution for anything OTHER than projects that require ProRes dailies.......

[Lucas Wilson]

No joy?

-Frank Cueto

Hi Frank,

There are two ways of doing this. The first involves rendering to an intermediary format first. The second is rendering to ProRes directly.

1) RENDERING TO QUICKTIME (not ProRes)


1. Grade in SCRATCH CINE
2. Render out to Quicktime (not ProRes codec)
3. Import to FCP

2) RENDERING DIRECTLY TO PRORES


An OSX-based system is the only thing that can render ProRes files. The "easiest" way to generate ProRes based on Rocket Fuel is to attach a Mac Mini or a blade (whatever is cheaper) and use Compressor with a watch folder. With that, you can send R3D segments with a LUT from SCRATCH CINE to Compressor and have Compressor render the ProRes files. It is not ideal, but for a Windows-based systems, it is the best thing we have for generating ProRes directly.

Lucas

[Lucas Wilson]

I can certainly appreciate the value of what is being offered here. I work primarily in a file based workflow and don't lay anything back to tape until the end. Since there is no secondary color correction included in the package, what's the added value above using RED Rocket™ and RocketCine-X to create one-lites?

1) Deck control
2) Ability to lay off, frame-accurately, in realtime, to any SMPTE format from NTSC/PAL up to dual-link 2048x1080 HD-RGB
3) Full EDL conform capability
4) ALE conform capability
5) LUT import/export
6) ASC CDL import/export
7) Panel-based grading with Tangent Wave

There are more, but you get the idea.


What are we buying here for the extra $7000 to $12,000 dollars over RED Rocket™? Speed?

Don't know where you're getting "7K - 12K" : )

The MSRP on the RED website for a RED Rocket card is 4,750. Rocket Fuel is $10,999. So.... for the extra $6,249, you are getting an NVidia 3800-SDI, SCRATCH CINE, and all the capabilities that comes with that.

Best,

Lucas

[Lucas Wilson]

Lucas why do i need the SDI card? Can i monitor out through dvi or 10 bit dysplay port?

i am not talking about the deal, i would love to have it all but just for clarify...

thanks in advance

You can certainly monitor through DVI or Display-Port. But if you want to do deck layoffs, or attach via SDI to anything, then you need the SDI card.

Lucas

[Lucas Wilson]

Hi all,

In the US and Canada, we will be having events coming up to show Rocket Fuel in Vancouver, Los Angeles, New York, Atlanta, Dallas, and a few other to-be-announced locations.

Dates are not firm yet. If you would like to attend one of these, please contact me offlist at lucas (at) assimilateinc (dot) com.

Thanks!

Lucas


Lucas Wilson
---------------
Director, Business Development
ASSIMILATE, inc.
LA, CA, USA

[Paulo Emílio]

Hi lucas, is it possible to use plug-ins in Fuel? (Like the raptors)

[Lucas Wilson]

Hi lucas, is it possible to use plug-ins in Fuel? (Like the raptors)

Yes. : )

(sorry it took me a day - needed to verify this)

Lucas

[Andrew Benz]

Lucas, where can I get an in depth look at Scratch Cine? I have a lot of questions... though I will do some searches here on red user, I would appreciate it if you had a better on-line accessible cache of information that I could read. I am shopping and looking to do a serious upgrade (for me that is... not for all you big dogs, haha) in this area. Thank you in advance.

[Paulo Emílio]

Cool, thats a good feature. Thanks Lucas for your precious time!

[Lucas Wilson]

Lucas, where can I get an in depth look at Scratch Cine? I have a lot of questions... though I will do some searches here on red user, I would appreciate it if you had a better on-line accessible cache of information that I could read. I am shopping and looking to do a serious upgrade (for me that is... not for all you big dogs, haha) in this area. Thank you in advance.

Good question...

Right now, if you have specific questions, we can answer them, or you can call your local reseller for a demo.

BUT - in about 2 weeks, we will have some pretty slick online videos and docs that will give you a pretty good idea of exactly what SCRATCH CINE is/does/etc.

But in the meantime, please feel free to email me offlist for any information or call me at three-one-oh five-nine-three eleven-eleven.

(have to write numbers in unusual ways to get around the spambots)

Lucas

Lucas Wilson
----------------
ASSIMILATE, inc.
LA, CA, USA

[John Jonathan]

Hey Lucas, What about upgrade paths to SCRATCH FINISH?

The retailers I talk to didn't have the exact answers either, since this is all so new. They quoted me an upgrade price on the software, but it was pretty much the same price as the software is anyway, but besides the software price my biggest concern is the Nvidia 3800 SDI card.

I am totally fine with this card for a primary grader, but what happens if you upgrade to a full SCRATCH FINISH? What are the limits when grading or finishing on the 3800 Card, since it has less memory and is slower then the 5800 SDI. What performance or lack there of are we looking at.

Also are the daughter boards compatible? Like if I wanted to upgrade to the 5800 down the road, would I just be able to grab a new 5800 card and use the same SDI Daughter board or do I have to buy a whole new SDI board?

[Lucas Wilson]

Hey Lucas, What about upgrade paths to SCRATCH FINISH?

The retailers I talk to didn't have the exact answers either, since this is all so new. They quoted me an upgrade price on the software, but it was pretty much the same price as the software is anyway, but besides the software price my biggest concern is the Nvidia 3800 SDI card.

There are very good upgrade paths to FINISH, that are *really* good deals. Please contact me offlist and I will make sure you get the right information.


I am totally fine with this card for a primary grader, but what happens if you upgrade to a full SCRATCH FINISH? What are the limits when grading or finishing on the 3800 Card, since it has less memory and is slower then the 5800 SDI. What performance or lack there of are we looking at.

Less memory = smaller framebuffer, and all that means. There will still be quite a bit in realtime. But you will hit limits sooner than with the 5800.


Also are the daughter boards compatible? Like if I wanted to upgrade to the 5800 down the road, would I just be able to grab a new 5800 card and use the same SDI Daughter board or do I have to buy a whole new SDI board?

3800 SDI daughtercard = 5800 SDI daughtercard.

Best,

Lucas

[Kaku Ito]

i want to buy three rocket fuels right now.

Got a couple of major film production jobs coming. I'm tired of none native or not quite production ready workflow. When and where can I purchase right now?

[Torrey Loomis]

BTW...we have the bundle up on the webstore, but it generally only works for U.S. domestic purchases:

http://silverado.cc/shop/product.php?productid=1389

International orders have to be placed manually since our webstore doesn't auto-calculate international shipping.

Torrey
-----------------------------------------------
Torrey Loomis
President & CEO - Silverado Systems, Inc.
(916) 760-0032 • FAX (916) 404-5258
torrey@silverado.cc
http://www.Silverado.cc

Silverado Twitter at http://www.twitter.com/silveradosys
StudioBuilder blog at http://silveradosys.blogspot.com

[Kaku Ito]

Lucas,

My reach knows no bounds...LOL

Tor

Torrey,

Thanks. Other than Rocket Fuel, I'm interested in some other things from Silverado, so I will get in touch with you.

[Christian Edwards]

x64 + Genarts + Tangent Wave = Sweet ! I can keep the RR packaging ?

[Lucas Wilson]

x64 + Genarts + Tangent Wave = Sweet ! I can keep the RR packaging ?

Sure, if you want it. : )

Lucas

[craigjkharris]

I will admit off the top that I'm going to go on a bit of a rant here. When I heard that Assimilate was going to release a product that is compatible with the RED Rocket™™™™™ I was really excited. I thought that it would be the start of something good... something more affordable and with a better toolset than what RedCineX had to offer. I also thought it would be a product that came as a result of listening to it's customer and potential customer base.

First... here's what I love about the software and what it has to offer.

1. Color grading interface

- I really like the Scratch Cine grading interface along with the capability to use a grading surface. This gives colorists and DIT's a familiar toolset to use ON SET.

2. Conforming & Viewing

- It's awesome to have the ability to apply pan & scan changes to your footage and to view your R3D files with the final delivery specs. Definatly a huge benefit!

3. SDI Output and Deck Control
- This is an obvious one.


Here is where I have some problems with the new software / hardware release.

1. PRICE - "IT'S A REALLY GOOD DEAL!!!" (I disagree)

- For $10,000+, I hoped that this product would have offered more... including
a. Finally being compatible with other platforms including MAC.
b. Let's face it... the RED Rocket™™™™™ is doing all the grunt work. The software and hardware integration shouldn't cost as much as it does.

2. INDUSTRY COMPATABILITY
a. I know that this is a RED site and we're all totally in love with RED but as a DIT, having to pay out over 10G's for software that can't work with other cameras is not a good investment.
b. Having the ability to work with other cameras (Phantom, Wiesscam, Viper, D21) is becoming increasingly more important and crucial. I'm not expecting Assimilate to create software that reads other formats... I'm just suggesting that the price on this software should be lower for DIT's who have to consider other workflows.
c. At this point you can't share color information with other software platforms that can't translate R3D / RSX files. Maybe I'm wrong... please let me know if I am. In the future, will you be able to share color information from the Scratch / RocketFuel as LUT's or CDL files with other grading systems (Lustre, SpeedGrade, etc)?

That's all for now.

[Lucas Wilson]

Hi Craig,

First of all - thanks for the feedback! You've clearly given it some thought, and that's cool. Glad you like what you like!

Jumping to your dislikes...


1. PRICE - "IT'S A REALLY GOOD DEAL!!!" (I disagree)

- For $10,000+, I hoped that this product would have offered more... including
a. Finally being compatible with other platforms including MAC.

We stated early on in the thread that this was primarily for Windows-based guys. That isn't everybody - we know that. But it is a huge chunk of people, and we are selling a lot of these to that segment of the market.


b. Let's face it... the RED Rocket™ is doing all the grunt work. The software and hardware integration shouldn't cost as much as it does.

I think maybe you don't understand the combo very well. Yes, the RR card is doing the decode of the R3D files. But the color correction, SDI output, and deck control are being done in the GPU by the 3800SDI. The conform, color interface, pan/scan, reformatting choice, EDL import, EDL sort, Plug-in Interface, and many other things are being done by SCRATCH CINE or the 3800SDI.

There is a ton of stuff being done by all the various pieces of the bundle.


2. INDUSTRY COMPATABILITY
a. I know that this is a RED site and we're all totally in love with RED but as a DIT, having to pay out over 10G's for software that can't work with other cameras is not a good investment.

It is if the vast majority of your work is RED. And that is clearly our target market for this bundle.


b. Having the ability to work with other cameras (Phantom, Wiesscam, Viper, D21) is becoming increasingly more important and crucial. I'm not expecting Assimilate to create software that reads other formats... I'm just suggesting that the price on this software should be lower for DIT's who have to consider other workflows.

We do have software that reads tons of other formats - the full-up SCRATCH package!


c. At this point you can't share color information with other software platforms that can't translate R3D / RSX files. Maybe I'm wrong... please let me know if I am. In the future, will you be able to share color information from the Scratch / RocketFuel as LUT's or CDL files with other grading systems (Lustre, SpeedGrade, etc)?

I feel good about telling you that you are wrong here. : )

SCRATCH CINE can export 1D LUTs, 3D LUTs, and S.Two XML LUTs in industry-standard formats that can be loaded into and understood by SpeedGrade, Lustre, Baselight, FilmMaster, Pablo, and pretty much every software tool out there that can read a LUT.

SCRATCH CINE also reads CDLs and can export a CDL.

Please keep the questions coming. Believe me, that wasn't a rant. You want a rant, I can show you some of my private emails. ;)

Best,

Lucas

[Meryem Ersoz]

I think maybe you don't understand the combo very well. Yes, the RR card is doing the decode of the R3D files. But the color correction, SDI output, and deck control are being done in the GPU by the 3800SDI. The conform, color interface, pan/scan, reformatting choice, EDL import, EDL sort, Plug-in Interface, and many other things are being done by SCRATCH CINE or the 3800SDI.



keep those rants coming because I'm finally beginning to understand what this is and why I might want it...thanks for the explanation.

[Chris Parker]

Thanks to Michael Cioni, you can now take a good look at the Rocket Fuel package and why it just may be the best choice for you and your RED processing needs. Details:

"Assimlate Inc releases ROCKET FUEL - perhaps the most affordable, powerful, real-time R3D grading digital intermediate turn-key system available.
Assimilate Director of Business Development, Lucas Wilson, sits down to discuss the unique selling points of ROCKET FUEL and lends his industry expertise to a discussion about progressive digital intermediate trends."

The link:

http://www.digitalcinemalessons.com/product_info.php?products_id=253

Enjoy!

[Torrey Loomis]

The link:

http://www.digitalcinemalessons.com/product_info.php?products_id=253

Enjoy!

That was a great video!

Torrey
-----------------------------------------------
Torrey Loomis
President & CEO - Silverado Systems, Inc.
(916) 760-0032 • FAX (916) 404-5258
torrey@silverado.cc
http://www.Silverado.cc

Silverado Twitter at http://www.twitter.com/silveradosys
StudioBuilder blog at http://silveradosys.blogspot.com

[Greg M]

nice work!

[Lucas Wilson]

For anyone in LA at HD Expo/4K Forum today, I'll be speaking at noon in the 4K Forum about Rocket Fuel.

Also... see Rocket Fuel in action at our stand, the Keycode Media stand, Globalstor stand, and SCRATCH in action (non Rocket Fuel) at JMR, Lightiron, and a few other spots...

Lucas

[Lucas Wilson]

Forgot one... the 4K Ninjas Van out in Gear Alley showing SCRATCH!

Lucas

[Kaku Ito]

It seems it's getting scratches all over, that's bad, LOL!

[Lucas Wilson]

All,

We will be showing Rocket Fuel at Interbee in two places - the Seika booth on the show floor, and in a private demo suite in the APA/Tokyo Bay hotel right beside Makuhari Messe. If anybody at Interbee would like to take a look, please contact me offlist at lucas (at) assimilateinc (dot) com.

The private demo times are filled, but it's a big room and we can double-up.

Best,

Lucas


Lucas Wilson
---------------
Director, Business Development
ASSIMILATE, inc.
LA, CA, USA

[Luca Immesi]

Lucas, what do you think to make Scratch Cine more similar to Scratch Finish? At additional cost you could add secondary CC and scaffolds limited only to R3D, creating a mid range system beetween Scratch Cine and Scratch Finish.
Just a thought...