Hyped or real?

[Eric Edwards]

Hey guys,

I have heard a lot about this camera, I've also been reading a lot about it, and in your guy's opinion, is this camera the real deal? meaning does this really give out quality equivalent to say Panavisions camera as well as Arri, etc? (of course im assuming as well that were using the same type of lenses too) I mean if this is the case, then there would be no reason not to get this camera if the quality is the same or better then that.

I am looking to order one of these cameras for feature films, hopefully budgeted in the 500k- 1 million dollar range, but am skeptical as to whether or not it really can be used as an alternative to the panavision or arri S35's.

I know that these cameras haven't even been shipped or maybe a few have been shipped so most of you here probably haven't test run it, but in your guy's opinion, do you think this camera is really on that level and can really perform up to those other cameras? Also, do you think it would be worth the buy.

Thanks in advance for all of your opinions.

[Keith Nealy]

Read on, McDuff. You will be amazed.

The RED is a revolution that will change the industry.

Yes it will be better, cheaper, and more flexible than any camera out there.

There is a ton of info on these boards and enought to make you a believer - so read on.

Welcome to REDuser.

aloha,

Keith

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Right now all indicators point to RED being the real deal. We're all eagerly awaiting the first shipment of cameras. There will be independent testing at the LA RED Test (LART) event as soon as the first cameras are delivered -- testing probably the first week or so of next month. In the coming weeks/months, test results and footage should come available so you can scrutinize and form your own opinions.

The revolution is happening now.

[Edmund Boyle]

Hi Erik,

Just have a look through the threads posted throughout this forum and you will ascertain a lot of the information you require. Peter Jackson and Steven Soderbergh are giving it the thumbs up.

The whole community here has unbelievable talent and are genuinely involved in the whole process. The Red team actively take on board suggestions made by people on the forum to make it a camera that will work for the people that use it. Cinema Production,EFP & ENG alike.

As a kid I can remember the look on Charlie in "Willy Wonkas Chocolate factory" as he realised he had just won the last Golden ticket.

This is it and you are here, the only difference now, is that as far as cameras goes this is not the land of make believe.

Welcome to the RED revolution!!

[Jack Wester]

Hyped or real?

Hyped AND real!

[Michael Stanmore]

Don't take our word for it, take the word of the people who HAVE used it so far... Their quotes are on the front page of Red.com

They're a couple of fairly well known little filmmakers...

[Dave Cooper]

Have you seen the samples?

[dvpixl]

Its not comparable to those cameras... it's BETTER.

[Gavin Greenwalt]

I think you're giving too much credit to the camera for producing a great looking image.

*STOP what you're thinking!* I'm not starting that debate. What I mean is. You just listed several 35mm film cameras. If you are going to want the maximum image quality possible the determining factor is not so much whether it's an Arri or a Panavision so much as what stock is being fed through the gate.

The accurate question is:

How does the RED camera's images compare to those shot on X, Y, Z film stocks?

[GlennChan]

Eric... I would consider a few things:

A- WHEN do you want the camera. And when you get it, are there any important features that will not be enabled?

B- If your camera has a problem, can you quickly get another one? Depending on how many Reds are available (if there isn't a huge backlog of reservation holders), it probably makes sense to have at least 2 on your shoot.

C- What are your needs in a camera? Do you need to shoot slow motion shots?

D- What is your post workflow? How tight are your deadlines? It is possible that you burn a lot of time/money if you aren't careful about the data-based workflow and audio sync. If your crew isn't on the ball with this it could potentially be an issue. Many post facilities only do SDI-based workflows... because it works. Whereas data-based workflows can have issues.

E- If you need a completion bond, then you might need to copy the footage onto data tapes (e.g. LTO) for safety (and someone to do that). It's a small cost to tack on.

These are some things to consider to cover your butt. Will Red make sense for your production IMO? Probably...

2- The image quality looks good. Film may have some advantages in some areas... it naturally has the film aesthetic, ?slightly better exposure latitude?, slow motion.

Red will also have its advantages... e.g. it should be excellent for VFX work (the image is very clean and noise-free, 4k resolution), very good sensitivity, etc.

[Eric Edwards]

Ya I see what you guys are saying, but in all honestly I don't feel I can ask or answer those questions right now because we really don't know how the Red camera works...who knows if it'll do slow motion well, who really knows how the work flow is, who knows if it'll work well with the type of shooting I want to do. I mean, it seems that none of us have had a hands on with this camera to really answer those questions. However we have seen some footage on red's website which look amazing, but then again, thats only a taste of it.

I mean, I could go on all day about what id want in the camera and whether or not it would be right for me, but in all honesty, this camera seems to new to really ask those questions. I actually started this thread more as a way of getting your guy's opinions on what you have read/heard, etc. I only bring up Panavision/Arri, the film stock and PL mounted lenses used as a reference to this camera. I am just trying to compare the Red to something so I can get an idea of what to expect from the Red. In all honesty if I was mentioning HDV cameras as a comparison, I don't think that would do me any good. So my whole point is that if for some reason the camera is comparable to the type of look panavision can get on any stock that its using, then that already answers a lot of questions for me...

I hope you see my point, and I thank you guys for your opinions and comments thus far.

[Tonaci Tran]

Considering it is currently being used on feature films right now by people like Steven Soderbergh gives it some credibility don't you think?

[Nook Kim]

Hi Eric,

There are more than a couple big budget movies that are being shot with Red
One cameras. I really doubt they would have used it if they weren't satisfied
with the quality of the image it was producing. Also, they must have conducted
their own tests prior to the shoot. Who else could tell you better of the camera's
performance if not these major motion picture guys?
After all, you can ask for your deposit back if you decide not to purchase the
camera. There's nothing to lose. I don't think.

Regards,

[jbeale]

Are they doing deposits anymore? I thought by now it was just regular orders.

[Brook Willard]

10% down on orders.

[Edmund Boyle]

Your deposit will last until your camera is ready. And you can change your mind and ask for a full refund at any time.

Jim


You can change your order around at the last minute before it ships. It is only fair that if we can change specs, you should be able to change your mind.

Jim

Thats as good as you can expect from any deposit! This was mentioned last week http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3551

[number6]

Hey guys,

I have heard a lot about this camera, I've also been reading a lot about it, and in your guy's opinion, is this camera the real deal? meaning does this really give out quality equivalent to say Panavisions camera as well as Arri, etc? (of course im assuming as well that were using the same type of lenses too) I mean if this is the case, then there would be no reason not to get this camera if the quality is the same or better then that.

I am looking to order one of these cameras for feature films, hopefully budgeted in the 500k- 1 million dollar range, but am skeptical as to whether or not it really can be used as an alternative to the panavision or arri S35's.

I know that these cameras haven't even been shipped or maybe a few have been shipped so most of you here probably haven't test run it, but in your guy's opinion, do you think this camera is really on that level and can really perform up to those other cameras? Also, do you think it would be worth the buy.

Thanks in advance for all of your opinions.

Eric, I haven't read all the succeeding posts to this one because I can pretty much guess what they are going to say... But it seems to me your options are to wait for a "sure thing" like 4 or 5 movies being released to rave reviews, or you can go ahead and take a flyer like the rest of us. When you ask a question like yours on Reduser.net you are asking customers. We are not going to say we think we made a bad buy! We must believe. My oun moment came after a time of pondering this camera, and when the financial stars aligned, I sprang. And then one day about a month later, I woke up to find I had just put doun a deposit on another. It was as if something deep within or perhaps totally outside my oun body just went through the motions for me, not trusting me to recognize what I needed to do, so doing it for me.

Recognizing that we are all different, still, I think if you and this camera are meant to work together, you will know it and it will happen. And you won't have to question if it is what it is.

[Shawn Nelson]

The fact that there are still doubting Thomas's at this stage in the game truly surprises me. What? Do they think that Peter Jackson and Soderbergh and those other guys are all in on a big ruse? Saying things like "no one really knows how it works". Uh...I do. I went to NAB, I played with the cameras, I watched other people show me real workflow. So do some research and you'll find that the majority of your statements are easily proven false.

[Paolo Tinari]

Considering it is currently being used on feature films right now by people like Steven Soderbergh gives it some credibility don't you think?

So, Guerilla (The argentine) is being shot with Red? Is this for real? And also, isnt Red being used only for baseplate vfx on Wanted, meaning everything else is being shot on film?

[JustinGD]

So, Guerilla (The argentine) is being shot with Red? Is this for real? And also, isnt Red being used only for baseplate vfx on Wanted, meaning everything else is being shot on film?

Yes and yes.


RED will be used more on the "Wanted" set as we come out of engineering hold. New cameras leave for Prague tomorrow.

Steven Soderbergh has given permission for me to say that he will shoot "The Argentine" and "Guerrilla" on RED. That's assuming we can get him cameras on time! :-)

There will be a couple of other announcements as soon as we get permission from the studios.

Jim

[Gavin Greenwalt]

If you want to order a car expect to pay a $2000 + NONREFUNDABLE deposit.

The RED is a foolproof order.

[mezmo]

Hi Eric,
Yeah, at the moment there is a problem with Red in that
you can't buy it off the shelf or out of stock carried by
Red the manufacturer.
This will probably not always be the case and when it's not
I'll purchase this camera or another D Film camera myself.
By that time it and other cameras will be well and truly
tested. In the meantime I'll rent.
I usually buy cameras for a particular project and when I
have some form of contract, deal memo or agreement from
the producer that the film/show will go ahead and he/she will
use my gear.
This is the way I do things, may not be your way.
Doing it this way I've collected most of the gear needed
over the years and paid for it quicklly with only the odd
"dud purchase" along the way.

BVH 500 anyone? Going cheap. Mezmo