UK import duty thread

[Karl H]

With all the speculation as to how much this will be, I thought I'd open a thread so those with the first batch could (please) report their experience with this.

I've heard wild things from 0% duty to 50% duty. I think we can all agree it might have a big impact on the final price, more so than the unstable £/$ relationship right now.

Has anyone got more clarification on what we can expect, or what category it will fall into?

[roryhinds]

who's called Custom's?
What did they say?

[Adam Jeal]

I would really appreciate any info on this.

[Columbus]

camera body
code 8525801990 = 4.9%

evf
code 9006 910090 = 3.7%
which is for a camera accessory, should be packaged in same box or with camera.

drives= 0%

lenses = 6.7%

[johannperry]

camera body
code 8525801990 = 4.9%

evf
code 9006 910090 = 3.7%
which is for a camera accessory, should be packaged in same box or with camera.

drives= 0%

lenses = 6.7%

Thats what customs and excise qouted me too when I enquired.

[PaulClements]

Cheers Colm and Johann, Rory you will have to let us know how you get on since you'll be fairly early.

[Karl H]

yes thanks for that.

would the production kit/rails be 0%

[PaulClements]

Probably 3.7% for camera accessory I'd guess

[miles]

Sorry, if my question seems stupid ....

This import duty rate seems reasonable. Is it the same across EU or is this just the UK one? What would the import duty in Germany, France or other countries be? I will check for Slovenia, but I expect higher rates from my past experiences. (unless everything changed with our accession to the EU).

And how much is the VAT? Would US tax and California tax (if there is one) be taken away from the now full price $17k for calculations (like base price $15.550) or would EU taxes and import duty come on top of US price - on top of $17k?

I guess if there are different import rates in different EU countries (and if the range is quite big, more than a few %), then I guess a lot of EU buyers would want their camera imported into the EU country with lowest rate and then resent to their home address or picked from there personally. If UK is the cheapest, that would rock - low-cost carriers flights to London are really cheap and are operated from almost any EU airport. After all many buyers are indie filmmakers and every buck counts.

Any word on EU representation/store/delivery options by the RED team?

Lp, m.

[miles]

Ok, it seems the import duty rate is the same for the whole EU area (codes and rates you stated, Columbus)
The difference is then on the VAT part. In Slovenia VAT is 20%, quite high, I'd say. This is why I am considering other options.
And the question is what the base price is, $17.500 or less (US tax deducted).
And how much will shipping and handling for the camera/lens cost.

Lp, m.

[miles]

Here are the EU VAT rates, I expect in all countries the normal VAT rate is in place for RED (some countries have reduced VAT rates for certain products - correct where wrong):
15% - Cyprus, Luxembourg
16% - Germany. Spain
17,5% - United Kingdom
18% - Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Malta
19% - Czech Republic, Greece, Netherlands, Slovakia
19,6% - France
20% - Italy, Hungary, Austria, Slovenia
21% - Belgium, Ireland, Portugal
22% - Poland, Finland
25% - Denmark, Sweden
Importing a RED camera to Luxembourg instead to Sweden results in a 10% difference ...

Lp, m.

[Karl H]

the $17,500 is without any Tax. In the US you pay sales tax on top of that depending on which state you are in.

So you pay $17,500 plus whatever VAT rate your country provides.

[roryhinds]

does anyone have the code for the lenses?

[laguun]

German VAT has been raised to 19% this year.

[Johnny Johnson]

I've been doing my own bit of ringing around and found out the following

Good news:
Grip equipment (fluid head and legs) come in as camera accessories so are 3.7%

Bad news:
Red LCD, probably comes in at 14%

Ugly news:
Evf probably comes in at 14%, however does anyone know if the voltage has a DC output of less than 7 volts? If so, it can come in with 0% duty, (has to be less than 33.7cm in diagonal screen size apparently, which i believe it is)

Also, it is suggested to fill in a particular written form with customs, so that you have a right to appeal against incorrect duties when the equipment comes in. I can't remember the name of the form, but without it, no appeal, even if its clearly wrong!

[jamesedwelland]

I trid to get clarification by applying for a binding Tariff Classification. Gave them all the information. They classed the kit (ie lot but not lenses) as a video camera 8525809900 at rate of 12.5% for the kit. I appealed, they grudgingly agreed and withdrew the classification, blaming me for providing incomplete information. It really is all a terrible mess. And if you get undercharged, they can come back and charge you the excess years later, despite it being their fault so be careful.

I do know that much depends on whether things imported at same time as part of a kit or not. I have not looked into the issue again but will next week.

I was told verbally that the viewfinder was code 9002900090 6.7%...

I wonder if there is a any help anywhere? like a small business advice line, local trade office or teh like?

james w

[Johnny Johnson]

James,

Is that classification under optics or something else? They were trying to figure out with me if the evf comes as the same thing as a lens, but I don't think it does as its not special glass of any sort.

by the way, good work on magicians, i was assisting on another job down at Qinetiq while that was there. I remember hearing stories of all the magicians (extras dressed up) floating about the site!

[Costelloe Michael]

I know this is opening up a very old thread but one that seriously interests me over the coming months!


Could anyone please share their actual experience as I usually find C and E classifications to be a lottery at best.

Codes and descriptions and rates would be appreciated!

Mike Costelloe:help:

[ericyoung]

Maybe Paul Clements or Rory Hinds can comment as they were among the first in the UK.

Would certainly like to know how Customs charged. Did they just lump everything together as a camera bundle and charge a single rate, or was there some differentiation between the various parts and accessories?

[BASSAM MSSALATIE]

is it possible red Help us reducing customs duty fees by packing our camera in old boxes. and issue low price bills
that refers this as accessories or spare parts.:)

[Costelloe Michael]

I'm sure you will find that is known as fraud. C and E are serious dudes and you don't want them on your back! If you really want to go down this route go and collect, do the repacking yourself and let us know how you get on!

Mike C

[Costelloe Michael]

Maybe Paul Clements or Rory Hinds can comment as they were among the first in the UK.



Not sure Paul has got his yet, have PM'd Rory to try to get the beta on this, will let you know.

Mike C:shiftyph34r:

[Columbus]

Hi Guys
The percentages I quoted on first page of thread are right. Make sure you get in contact with fedex when your goods are in the UK. Before they charge you they can talk to customs customs and negotiate the right tariff. Initially I was being charged far more until I quoted the tarriffs I had been given by the custom and exise tariff line.
Cheers Colm

[Phil D]

Hi,

You could always try what I'm going to do. I have taken a job in Portland USA, Oregon state has no sales tax! After a year i'll be able to ship my Red to the UK with no import duty to pay.

I should point out that this is not the reason I took the job in the states, but its a pretty cool bonus.

[Mike Gifford]

Hi,

You could always try what I'm going to do. I have taken a job in Portland USA, Oregon state has no sales tax! After a year i'll be able to ship my Red to the UK with no import duty to pay.

I should point out that this is not the reason I took the job in the states, but its a pretty cool bonus.

My business partner, Frank, is off to Portland as well - guess that would be Mr Selick you're working for? If so, hope you meet up - Frank 'el passo' Passingham, DOP. Say hello to Harry Linden for me!


I'm not waiting a year for Frank to bring back our cameras, I want them now!

Good Luck

[Phil D]

Mike,

Your powers of deduction are quite phenomenal, or is it just a very small world!

I will indeed say hello to Harry and Frank.

Can I ask how will you be employing your cameras when they arrive in the UK?

[Mike Gifford]

Phil

Assuming that I can pay the UK import duty, our cameras are going to be thoroughly tested in the world of trickfilm and stopframe.

If all goes well I will try to get the cameras to mate and produce offspring, because if they work out ok we might need 30 of them!

[Phil D]

Cool. I just posted about how great it would be to have a stop frame function on the RED. All the best with your trinkering on that front.

[Karl H]

Hi Guys
The percentages I quoted on first page of thread are right. Make sure you get in contact with fedex when your goods are in the UK. Before they charge you they can talk to customs customs and negotiate the right tariff. Initially I was being charged far more until I quoted the tarriffs I had been given by the custom and exise tariff line.
Cheers Colm

Very interesting Columbus. Im curious, are you saying Customs gave fedex completely different codes than they gave you based on the same information? If you challenge them did you have to prove somehow that your codes were correct?

Finally can you give me an idea as to how much Red charged you for shipping? I asked on another thread but had no joy.

My camera 'should' ship in the next batch and I'm trying to at least get a ballpark of all these rates. Depending on whether they get all their accessories in stock I may well be paying multiple shipping costs over time.

[slave1]

Sorry to interrupt the flow of the conversation here but...

One thing I'd like to know is - Once you have paid the import duty do you still have the UK 17.5 % sales tax to pay on top of that too?

As an example the RED 18-50mm F2.8 CF LENS costs $6500, in pounds (as on Jan08 ) that is £3324 + 6.7% on lenses = £3546.71. Is that all I will end up paying or is there a whopping 17.5% VAT to go on top on that making it £4167.38?

Slave1

[Stephen Webb]

One thing I'd like to know is - Once you have paid the import duty do you still have the UK 17.5 % sales tax to pay on top of that too?

Yes.

Register for VAT, then you get to claim it back.

[slave1]

Unless you a film student, dreamer - would-be-start-up then your screwed.

$17500 RED ONE = £8,949 + 4.9% + 17.5% = £11030.31 + P&P

I wonder if there any tax concessions for film makers in the UK either start-ups or professional?

Slave1

[Martin Drew]

As long as you plan to make an income from the activity you can register for VAT.

[conrad gaunt]

Unless you a film student, dreamer - would-be-start-up then your screwed.

$17500 RED ONE = £8,949 + 4.9% + 17.5% = £11030.31 + P&P

I wonder if there any tax concessions for film makers in the UK either start-ups or professional?

Slave1


The UK government has pledged to help the ailing british film industry for years, they do this by doing absolutely nothing. Thats politics. I think its generally a good idea to assume nothing.
I had been under the impression, quite a few years ago, that there were tax breaks coming for people producing films for export, but I think I imagined this, or it never happened. I did look into it. If it is true, and my tax office is ignorant, you`d probably have to be VAT registered to benefit. Some enlightenment by someone knowledgable would be nice.
I`m all for paying less tax to the morons. Unlike America, in Britain, paying tax doesn`t necessarily mean you can vote either if you`re under 18 (although you can pay tax for two years, get married, smoke and go to Iraq). I imagine it must be nice to know your opinion matters. Mind you, I heard in California many black people had the same restrictions.

[Jon McCoy]

Bumping the thread...

Any updates on the duty, now I suspect more units have been shipped to the UK?

I had a recent run-in with Fedex, who managed to charge us 90% duty on two T-Shirts from the US, so I'm keen to be armed with the right facts.

Is there any difference between multiple shipments (if Red don't have in stock, I understand they ship separately)? Split-shipments should be catered for if they're on one invoice, but if the invoice gets split, does the "Camera Accessory" status get deferred to another band, or is it a case of arguing that the bits are camera accessories?

[Stephen Williams]

I had a recent run-in with Fedex, who managed to charge us 90% duty on two T-Shirts from the US, so I'm keen to be armed with the right facts.


Hi,

I think you will find there was a fixed administration charge in addition you were paying, not 90% duty.

Stephen

[Costelloe Michael]

Bumping the thread...

Any updates on the duty, now I suspect more units have been shipped to the UK?

I had a recent run-in with Fedex, who managed to charge us 90% duty on two T-Shirts from the US, so I'm keen to be armed with the right facts.

Is there any difference between multiple shipments (if Red don't have in stock, I understand they ship separately)? Split-shipments should be catered for if they're on one invoice, but if the invoice gets split, does the "Camera Accessory" status get deferred to another band, or is it a case of arguing that the bits are camera accessories?

The duty codes in the early part of this thread will apply to whatever turns up in your package, no matter whether split or not. Red have to supply a shipping invoice detailing what is in the package and what they have received for it as payment. If your EVF, for instance, is not in the box it will not be on the docket and you will not pay duty or VAT on it until it arrives.

However, the duty rate does depend on who is actually looking at the package and deciding what is in it. They may call the EVF an optical device, a camera accessory, a lense or whatever, and charge the duty at whatever rate is applicable for this particular description. They can, and do, get it wrong. You can opt to pay. or argue, or pay and argue later, although this is a little more difficult.

I have been charged the right duty, the wrong duty and no duty depending on what, when, where and who without any consistency whatsoever! Suffice it to say that this is not like going down to the local video shop and buying a Z1, HVX200 or the like. BTW you would pay VAT on that also. Talk to the C and E and ask them to advise you on VAT, they are actually very good and only penalise you if you are trying to avoid paying tax altogether. If this seems a little serious any accountant should give you at least one free hour of their time in order to get your business and will end up saving you money in the long term.

The figures in this thread concerning a Red Camera costing $17,500 or £11k don't make any sense at all. If you are serious about owning and usefully operating a Red Camera the figures are much higher than that. To put a package together to make a usable unit for any serious venture which will require minimal camera accessories inc lenses, grip, monitoring and data management I would budget for about £20k. There will always be the exeptions to this who manage on Nikons, one CF card and a laptop and good luck to them I look forward to seeing the results. I'm invested about £60k in putting together a set-up for low budget film making, taking into account Camera and accessories, data management and editing and backup solutions. This is without lenses, any significant grip or monitoring solutions which I will have to hire in when needed. This to me is a bare bones solution. Have a look at Sonic to see what a complete solution really entails and what you have to invest for a full kit.

Still it certainly beats paying £60k for an HDCam!

Mike C

[Jon McCoy]

Hi,

I think you will find there was a fixed administration charge in addition you were paying, not 90% duty.

Stephen

You'd think wouldn't you... They claimed (proxying the HMRC inspector's statement) that the cost of shipping was a dutiable service. Seriously, we where charged duty of about £35, and Fedex charges making up the difference.

[Stephen Webb]

The duty rates in the early part of this thread are incorrect.

And no, you don't pay duty on the shipping charge.