UK/EU Sub Hire (You can profit from the hire of my equipment).

[PaulClements]

Hi All,

For those Red Owner/Operators based in the UK or EU I will be offering a sub hire of my equipment (Typically with myself as DIT at no difference to the cost).

If you need an extra or a replacement camera for a shoot I will supply my Red body and any suitable extras within your original price for the client.

Depending on the client's original price I will welcome users to profit from the hiring of myself and equipment. An example figure: If you rented the Red Body, EVF and production pack for £300 per day, I would offer a portion of that figure (For example: £80-£100 per day) to the individual or company sub hiring. All accessories included in the hire would also offer the option for the sub-hirer to profit. All sub hire contracts will be determined before each job and I am open to all types of scenario's and budgets.

As well as the hire of the equipment you will also get another body on set to help with the workflow from a technical perspective.

I also welcome shooters from anywhere in the world that would like to sub hire my equipment for clients crossing into the UK or EU

Mobile: +44 (0)7786 444 333
Email: paulclementscx@gmail.com (mailto:paulclementscx@gmail.com)
Website: www.paulmclements.com (http://www.paulmclements.com) (Currently Unavailable - Will be up Early September).

Cheers

Paul

[Stephen Williams]

Hi Paul,

That sounds like an interesting business model.

Stephen

[Emanuel A.]

Yes, a good idea.

[PaulClements]

Hi Stephen,

Cheers.

One of the problems I foresee a lot of people having (Myself included) is the inability to offer two cameras for a shoot very easily (Pretty much a given on any decent production). So by offering my equipment in this way I hope that it will help others to:

A) Have greater ability to bid for work by offering a more complete shooting package
B) Earn a bit more money for their hard work getting the job.
C) Have an extra individual working alongside them to meet exacting quality standards processing footage and backing up securely

I will publish more thorough details on my website in the next two weeks which will give details for each user to follow when quoting for a job. I will also be including a calendar that will allow people to quickly check specific dates when they want to sub hire. I'm only ever a phone call away and open to any and all offers.

Paul

[Stephen Williams]

Hi Stephen,

Cheers.

One of the problems I foresee a lot of people having (Myself included) is the inability to offer two cameras for a shoot very easily (Pretty much a given on any decent production). So by offering my equipment in this way I hope that it will help others to:

A) Have greater ability to bid for work by offering a more complete shooting package
B) Earn a bit more money for their hard work getting the job.
C) Have an extra individual working alongside them to meet exacting quality standards processing footage and backing up securely

I will publish more thorough details on my website in the next two weeks which will give details for each user to follow when quoting for a job. I will also be including a calendar that will allow people to quickly check specific dates when they want to sub hire. I'm only ever a phone call away and open to any and all offers.

Paul

Hi Paul,

From my experience in this business the only way you can earn any money is to be different from the competition, your approach would seem to be innovative, we need to talk at IBC.

Stephen

[PaulClements]

Hi Stephen,

Look forward to meeting you in person.

Paul

[Martin Drew]

Hi Paul

Do you mean that if I sold into a client a 2 camera shoot at £300 a day per camera. I could hire in the second body + EVF + PP + You for £200 - £220 per day? Or that the £200 - £220 would be the equipment rental and you as DIT would be an addtional fee?

M

[PaulClements]

Hi Martin,

You would hire the camera equipment along with me as a DIT to the client for £300p/d as if it were your own equipment and personnel. You would then pay me £200 - £220p/d or whatever price we agreed upon. So no, myself as DIT would not be an additional fee.

I gave those figures as a guideline only, some people might want to hire my services and equipment alongside their own for £500-£600 a day for example, in which case they'd earn more money from it, say £150-£200.

Essentially each job will be agreed upon in advance and contracts drawn up. I'm open to negotiation on costs and fees so it won't be a fixed percentage that you charge the client, most likely somewhere between 1/3 to 1/4 of what you charge you would profit.

The reason that I work to your rates is because it allows you to price a setup according to your clients, rather than being forced into increasing to a specific rate I apply. It means that some jobs will pay me better than others but that's the nature of the game anyway.

My services and equipment would effectively be white label so that you could sell it as your own. I'd be entirely fair with prices. I'm not in it for a fast buck. I value experience and love of my craft far higher than cash, though that doesn't mean I don't want to make a decent living like the next man! :)

Cheers

Paul

[donatello b]

how does "you included in the price" happen if it is rented out at a 3 day week ... what happens on days that are 8hr day vs 12hr day ? aren't there labor laws over in the EU /UK?

[Stephen Williams]

how does "you included in the price" happen if it is rented out at a 3 day week ... what happens on days that are 8hr day vs 12hr day ? aren't there labor laws over in the EU /UK?

Hi Donatello,

The UK minimum wage is £5.35 per hour for workers aged 22 years and older.

Stephen

[Dominic Jones]

Hi Paul, that is indeed an interesting model - I'm hoping to be over at IBC as well this year, so we'll have to try and meet up too (maybe at the same time as you and Stephen, if we can arrange it and Stephen's up for it?).

We're also talking (in general terms, not just Red-related) about cross-hiring with a full-time hire company down here, to fill out their catalogue with some of our more off-the-beaten-path kit and back-up our indie rentals that we've been offering for a while now. I'm not sure if they're getting any Reds as yet but if they're not that could prove to be a very profitable early ROI - they would certainly want more than 1 camera for safety, and maybe more for multi-cam hires anyway. We should definitely talk in more detail, and I'll track down some more info on their position re: Red.

When are you in Amsterdam, for the whole event or just a couple of days?

[Stephen Williams]

Hi Dominic,

I am at IBC from Thursday evening before the show opens on Friday till Sunday.

Stephen

[Martin Drew]

I won't be around on Friday but I will be there saturday to Monday. If you want to grab a coffee at sometime during the show Stephen, Dominic anyone else let me know and we can exchange mobiles.

M

[PaulClements]

how does "you included in the price" happen if it is rented out at a 3 day week ... what happens on days that are 8hr day vs 12hr day ? aren't there labor laws over in the EU /UK?

Hi Donatello

Most people in the UK work 8 hour days as standard anyway. I currently work more than 12 hours a day a lot of the time. It doesn't bother me.

Obviously these details would be covered in the first place though. For example someone sub hiring me and the equipment would negotiate the days and hours and put in a bid to the client. The sub hirer would discuss with me suitable costs depending on the job details and we would arrange a relevant figure between us that we were both happy with.

As I said before the £300 figure is an example not an exact figure I will be working with, i'd work with your rates not my own, and everyone's are different. If for example an independent/low budget job came along that couldn't afford much but offered invaluable experience to work with other professionals or something unusual (For example all costs covered for 2 weeks filming in the North pole) then I would even be open to doing it for less or free. The flipside is if a huge production came along and was paying £1000 a day I'd be happy to work my fingers to the bone.

Cheers

Paul

[PaulClements]

Hi Dominic, I'm at IBC for just the Friday. I will be at "Cafe The Corner" near the RAI in the morning (See this thread (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3666)). I look forward to meeting as many people as possible at the exhibition or in the morning.

[Stephen Webb]

Here's what I'd be interested in:

1) Let's say I'm hiring my kit out for £800 p/d. The body is only a part of that, but the one that I'll need backed up in case owt goes wrong. So I'd like to be able to have a second "body only" on set.

2) Same scenario as above, but rather than have a second camera body on set I'd want a guarentee of a second body if anything went wrong - ie, I'd like to be able to pay someone to keep their camera "on hold" for me for the duration of a shoot in case anything went wrong.

3) I want to hire my camera out but neither myself or my colleagues are available as DIT - so I want to hire someone else in who's already an owner (but not their camera).

Shan't be doing IBC this year - had planned to go but have got a big job on instead, so have decided I can't make it.

[PaulClements]

Hi Stephen,

I have contemplated offering my camera as backup exactly how you suggest. Something like £100 per day for it to be available to you if the first should have any issues. You wouldn't have it on set with you but I would guarantee delivery of the backup unit within a set amount of time.

If this is something that you would like the option on I'd be happy to discuss details. The reason I didn't post anything is that until I can fathom demand I'm unsure whether limiting access to my camera's availability by having it "on standby" is a wise move or not.

Like I say though I'm open to suggestions and would be more than willing to trial something like this with you Stephen.

Cheers

Paul

[Stephen Webb]

I have contemplated offering my camera as backup exactly how you suggest. Something like £100 per day for it to be available to you if the first should have any issues. You wouldn't have it on set with you but I would guarantee delivery of the backup unit within a set amount of time.

If this is something that you would like the option on I'd be happy to discuss details. The reason I didn't post anything is that until I can fathom demand I'm unsure whether limiting access to my camera's availability by having it "on standby" is a wise move or not.

That's exactly what I had in mind, basically that I'd pay £100 p/d for you to sit on it & not rent it out (though nothing to stop you going & shooting stock footage or something in the meantime - so long as it's omething you can drop at a moments notice).

Could be feasible if you had a large gap in your bookings (and any new booking you can work around the dates) or if it was agreed a few days before (you're less likely to get a booking for next week so why not get paid just to let it sit on the shelf?)

Don't really know how feasible it is, would obviously be easier for someone with multiple cameras, but it's a thought.

[PaulClements]

That sounds fine Stephen.

I will look into the formalities of doing this and set it up alongside my Sub Hire option then.

If I were to have a lot of interest in this and it began to generate a steady surplus of users I would be more than happy to invest in multiple cameras in the future. I'll use my first camera as a test bed for it and we'll see how it goes.

If you or anyone have a specific feature in mind that requires this after early November get in touch and we'll talk details. Otherwise I'll make a post with details on my website soon.

Cheers m8

Paul

[Martin Drew]

In the early days I am sure a lot of people would be in the same boat wanting to pay for an option on a body as backup.

M

[Dominic Jones]

Another option I've been contemplating trying to sort out with someone (or a group of people) is a scenario that could work like this:

Say you're shooting (or providing kit + DIT/AC to) a larger project like a feature or drama series. You'll need to have your backup camera available for an extended period of time, so perhaps a way to achieve this would be similar to the above, but with a full day rate (or even a over-priced day rate) for having the camera on set in the event of an emergency.

So the payment model might be, say £300 per week (£100 p.d. for a 3-day week) to have the camera available in a given period of time, with an "on-set" rate of, perhaps £300-£400 per day if it is required.

Obviously it means the camera can't go out on any other jobs over that time-frame (hence the idea of a small network of multiple providers), but it does ensure a guaranteed level of income over the period. Of course, it might well be that this looks a lot more attractive to owners once initial demand has died down and there are more units about for rent, hence lower demand (and potentially lower day rates to boot)...

Does that sound in any way interesting to you guys?

[Dominic Jones]

Stephen (Williams, that is!), Paul & Martin:

OK, looks like Friday might be a good day to try and meet up - I'll try and make sure I'm there for that day...

Anyone wanting to meet up - either to discuss Red rentals et al, or just for a chat and a beer or coffee - is more than welcome to PM me for my mobile number - be great to meet as many of you as possible!

Cheers...

[PaulClements]

I've made a new thread about the Standby System (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3831) so please post there about any concerns or issues regarding that.

Hi Dominic,

This is how I will be operating my "Standby System" (Though some details are subject to change):

An agreement will be made for the dates that a standby system will be required, indicating location and response time desired by the client.
I will keep the camera with me. It will not go on set unless I'm along as a supervisor (This will increase the cost of the standby system though), the main reason being that a producer might "suggest" using it once or twice without my knowledge. By doing so this does not take into consideration wear and tear and may void insurance claims, but perhaps most of all they would be taking advantage of the deal. Not everyone is trustworthy and many might look on it as a way of having a cheap second camera on set.
When a problem occurs I would be contacted and dependent on the agreed response time the equipment would be delivered by me in person.
For every day the replacement camera is being used a sub hire rate similar to the above would be put in place. This sub hire rate would be lower than typical and would be agreed at the beginning and allow the original rentee to continue profitting from the shoot (At this point I would guess something like 50/50 of the rental of said piece of equipment between rentee and myself as standby). Again this is essential to avoid calling in a replacement camera as a means to have a cheaper second unit on set.

Rates will vary depending on response time. For example an onset standby system (which would include myself as supervisor) might be £200 per day whereas a <5 hour response time might be £100 per day. A next day response time might be £70 per day.

There are a few more details to iron out but I will have something arranged soon. If anyone thinks they see a problem in the above or has a suggestion feel free to chime in.

Cheers

Paul

[Vladimir Eugene]

Hi Paul, I like your plan. Do you mind if I copy and post it for the Los Angeles area?

Vladimir[/I]



Hi All,

For those Red Owner/Operators based in the UK or EU I will be offering a sub hire of my equipment (Typically with myself as DIT at no difference to the cost).

If you need an extra or a replacement camera for a shoot I will supply my Red body and any suitable extras within your original price for the client.

Depending on the client's original price I will welcome users to profit from the hiring of myself and equipment. An example figure: If you rented the Red Body, EVF and production pack for £300 per day, I would offer a portion of that figure (For example: £80-£100 per day) to the individual or company sub hiring. All accessories included in the hire would also offer the option for the sub-hirer to profit. All sub hire contracts will be determined before each job and I am open to all types of scenario's and budgets.

As well as the hire of the equipment you will also get another body on set to help with the workflow from a technical perspective.

I also welcome shooters from anywhere in the world that would like to sub hire my equipment for clients crossing into the UK or EU

Mobile: +44 (0)7786 444 333
Email: paulclementscx@gmail.com (mailto:paulclementscx@gmail.com)
Website: www.paulmclements.com (http://www.paulmclements.com) (Currently Unavailable - Will be up Early September).

Cheers

Paul

[Dominic Jones]

That sounds almost exactly like what I had in mind, Paul - very interesting, and I think there's a very good chance we can do some business together at some point, certainly for feature work - we'll have to keep in touch! Where are you based mate, out of interest?

I agree, by the way, with not having it on set unsupervised - it certainly does leave you open to getting the piss taken out of you somewhat, and to be fair if a producer wants a camera on set then they should bloody well pay a full day rate for it, imo!

Hopefully meet you at IBC anyways, so that'll be a good chance to chew the cud...

[PaulClements]

I've made a new thread about the Standby System (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3831) so please post there about any concerns or issues regarding that.

[PaulClements]

Sounds good Dominic and I look forward to meeting you.

Vladimir, unfortunately I cannot copyright such an idea and my global empire doesn't quite stretch that far :). So by all means feel free to use it and that goes for anyone, if you would reference this thread and/or mention my name that'd be much appreciated, but not essential.

Cheers

Paul

[Vladimir Eugene]

your a good man Paul. I shall reference this thread.

Vladimir