Why is the REC button on the Right side of the EPIC?

[Mark Pugh]

I'm sure it's already been asked somewhere. I recall Jim replying that with the Redmote, you have a button anywhere, but I can't see how it can be put just under the eyepiece on the left side, like the Red One and most other movie, and it shouldn't be an issue fixed with an accessory anyway.
So I've gotta ask, why put it THERE on the right? Any other place I can think of right now would be better for an operator.

It's not just a matter of reach. You normally want your right hand sitting ready on a pan-handle when you roll, with your body ready for the shot. If you're hand-held, you're using the right handle to stop the camera from hitting the deck. You don't want to go fumbling. Yes, I know that there's REC button on the active handle of the Epic, but once again, its an accessory, and may not be on the camera, even for handheld. For all other shots... it's on the right...

End of gripe...
Is there any reason this can't be changed at this stage?

[Charles Angus]

It seems to me that it's because of the CF card thing on the left side.

I heard that there was "no room" on the left side, but there is clearly lots of room:
http://redgrabs.com/brain.jpg

[Mark Pugh]

It seems to me that it's because of the CF card thing on the left side.
http://redgrabs.com/brain.jpg

Thanks, Charles...
so why put the CF module there? Makes no sense to me. Even under the lens would be a better position for the button.

[Cüneyt Kaya]

a rec button on the right side makes sense when a 1st AC starts the camera.

[Nick Gardner]

What 1st AC works on the dumb side of the camera?

[Cüneyt Kaya]

What 1st AC works on the dumb side of the camera?

nick, which AC stands left to the operator when there is no need?

and the redmote can be anywhere i guess. its modular, thats the whole point of this thing

[Mark Pugh]

nick, which AC stands left to the operator when there is no need?

and the redmote can be anywhere i guess. its modular, thats the whole point of this thing

The Redmote is large. Therefore it can't go everywhere easily. I own a remote REC switch for my Red Ones. It's great, though I'd spend a lot of time and effort putting it anywhere I can think of.. anyway I'd really like my REC switch that's actually on the camera to be in the right place for the operator, for the reasons cited above. Please let's not assume that the AC is always buttoning on, and that they're probably on the dumb side.
Has every other camera manufacturer been getting this wrong all these years? I don't think so...

[Nick Gardner]

well, all of them. If I have to communicate with my 1st, I can do it in a tiny whisper and we can fix the shot together. Try that over a camera.

Nick

[Jannard]

There are 4 ways to hit run/stop and two of them can go anywhere. What is your question again?

Jim

[Evin Grant]

I've got no problem with it since the Redmote will be able to be positioned on the smart side or in the 1st's hand. However a compromise for those that want an operator button for tripod use could be to add a one to the left side of the I/O modules, it's the module most likely to be placed directly behind the body in a cinema config, and I'll hazard a guess there's more room there than in the body :biggrin:

[Eisen Feuer]

With 4 record buttons all we need now is a brainwave sensor that recognizes when we think we should be recording. One can focus so much on the set up of the shot—and it's never good to have to turn around after a perfectly good take and say "Hey um... we need to do it over. I... forgot to press record."

[Mark Pugh]

There are 4 ways to hit run/stop and two of them can go anywhere. What is your question again?

Jim


Jim, my question is why move it from the front left of the camera - the best place for it to be?
I understand about the Redmote going "anywhere" (with a quick-release system to do so).
Which other one can go anywhere?

As I see it:
The side handle button's on the top right
The bottom handle button's on the bottom right
The brain buttons on the middle right.
The Redmote button's on the back right, if the Redmote's on the back of the camera.

[Jannard]

Jim, my question is why move it from the front left of the camera - the best place for it to be?
I understand about the Redmote going "anywhere" (with a quick-release system to do so).
Which other one can go anywhere?

As I see it:
The side handle button's on the top right
The bottom handle button's on the bottom right
The brain buttons on the middle right.
The Redmote button's on the back right, if the Redmote's on the back of the camera.

I forgot about the bottom handle so make that 5...

There is no room on the left (as has been said) or the front. The icon is on the cover of the fan drawer. Covering up a button with a removable CF module doesn't seem prudent either. Lots of electronics and capability in a wicked small box.

Jim

[Kyle Presley]

SO that begs, the question to be asked, what's number 5? Anything to do with gigabit ethernet?

[Stuart English]

So that begs, the question to be asked, what's number 5? Anything to do with gigabit ethernet?

For sure. You could start / stop record via Gig-Etherent, also there is the GPI trigger available from certain lenses and / or Preston controllers....etc

[Felix K.]

Maybe with the touchscreen aswell?

[Mark Pugh]

Maybe with the touchscreen aswell?

touchscreens are cool
redmotes are cool
GPIO is cool
ethernet is cool
optional handles with Rec buttons are cool...
I'm excited...

But I like having a button knowing exactly where it is, never moves.
I can operate without looking for it, on the left side of the cam. Sad to see it go.
Anyway, end of rant. I'm off to get the bee of my bonnet. :)

[Steve Gibby]

There are a lot of us who will use Epic and Scarlet in lightweight DSMC setups as pictured, with the side handle, and bottom handle. For those, the record buttons as pictured are in ideal locations for motion use, and for stills in both landscape and portrait modes.

With the myriad of possible setups of these cameras there are bound to be people who aren't fully happy with the location of certain features - or don't fully grasp the alternative places for those features. Those will also usually be the people who fail to catch the vision of how broadly-utilitarian these cameras can be. They have their familiar camera setups and will want to stick with them. In order to gain broad utility from a camera there are necessarily some slight compromises from traditional ergonomics, setups, and usage techniques. I think that's a very small price to pay for the increased modularity, utility, flexibility, and potential multi-industry revenue generation potential of these new DSMC cameras.

[Joel J. Feigenbaum]

Those of you who are anguished or miffed about the position of the RECORD button on the Epic are kidding, right? This is a DSMC design. Where is the shutter release located on a Nikon or Canon or any other "S" camera. Jim just stated there are at least 5 options. How many "Rec" options do you have on an Arri, Eclair, Aaton or Panivision "M" camera? I mean really. REALLY.

And how many of those manufacturers take the time to respond to your beefs? Hmmmm. Let me count. ZERO.

Jim and company have given a tremendous amount of thought to why they are doing everything they are doing. "Count on it."

Okay, I'm done ranting. REALLY!

[Blaire Johnson]

Since most people will buy the CF module, like they did for the R1, and it sits on the left... where the REC button should be, like on every other cinema camera in existence..... You could put a REC button on that module.... sorry if that made too much sense.

I guess I should make my own camera system instead of telling you obvious things like that, oh wait I don't have billions of dollars to do that so I'll just suggest it to someone who does and has a forum for that purpose.

I don't need 5 buttons in the wrong places. I just 2 buttons in the correct places. 1 on the right, 1 on the left, and if you want to get crazy 1 on the back too.

[Todd M.]

Since most people will buy the CF module, like they did for the R1, and it sits on the left... where the REC button should be, like on every other cinema camera in existence..... You could put a REC button on that module.... sorry if that made too much sense.

I guess I should make my own camera system instead of telling you obvious things like that, oh wait I don't have billions of dollars to do that so I'll just suggest it to someone who does and has a forum for that purpose.

I don't need 5 buttons in the wrong places. I just 2 buttons in the correct places. 1 on the right, 1 on the left, and if you want to get crazy 1 on the back too.

If you believe those are the "correct" places, then I would think this camera is not for you.

[JanneJansson]

If you move the camera left-right-left-right up-down-up-down the the gyro sensors will sens that and trigger recording also ;)

[Shane Nassiri]

↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A also works, I hear.

[rod bradley]

Wow... only five options for record... and none of them in the right left place... what a deal killer!

[Nick Gardner]

Look if you don't operate a camera for a living, this is no big deal. If you do, you realize that 1 of two things is going to happen. 1 - you are on a gear head and more than likely the first is going to roll the camera for you. 2- you have your right hand on the pan handle and your left hand hovering around the finder to adjust it's angle, or resting on the side of the head. There should be a roll button right where your left hand is. That's where it is on every other camera, including the Red one. That's why the tilt lock on heads is right under that. When they say roll camera, those are the 3 things you do, tilt lock, finder, roll.

That's all anyone here is saying. It is a bummer to ignore such a basic ergonomic need, but it's not the end of the world.

Nick

[Juhan Malmstein]

put the redmote to the left of the body. woila. If you're having trouble visualizing all of this then go to your kids room and grab a set of lego technic blocks, should give an idea of what it'll be like soon.

[Stuart English]

A couple of points.

- EPIC is modular camera and we are aiming to satisfy a wide range of use cases.

- Requests for a left side access record start / stop function are understood.

[Mark Pugh]

put the redmote to the left of the body. woila.

Can someone please describe or illustrate where exactly, and how?
Any chance of a render?
Thanks.

MP

[Mark Pugh]

Requests for a left side access record start / stop function are understood.

Thanks, Stuart.

[Nick Gardner]

Whoo Hoo!

[Harry Clark]

Gotta chime in here too.
The traditional place, among others, is the camera left side ("operator side")
But keep in mind that Panavision spent 20+ years making Panaflex cameras with run switches on the rear only! That always baffled me too.
Red Team, it would be great. I understand if there are technical reasons why. But give it another look. It's a logical place in studio-style shooting.
Cheers,
Harry

[Tim Hole]

I'm left handed and have never been comfortable with the way any cameras are laid out but I have adapted over time...ish!!

One of the reasons I like RED modular approach.

Although I should point out that it is only the large cameras (that everyday pros us...hence why they generally all have similar positioning) that have the button to the left or front of the cam. As far as I can think of most if not all smaller form cameras have the button on the back or by the rocker zoom on the right side. I know the point you are making which is completely understandable. But its modular so either RED will adapt or you will.

[Stephen Gentle]

For sure. You could start / stop record via Gig-Etherent, also there is the GPI trigger available from certain lenses and / or Preston controllers....etc

How does that work? I mean, what protocol would you connect to the camera - is it some custom protocol that requires a separate app on a computer or could you SSH in and see a text-based menu or something like that?

[Steve Gibby]

The traditional place, among others, is the camera left side ("operator side")

Hmmm...a left side record button is true for most cine cameras, but on full-sized professional EFP cameras the record button is on the front, as Tim pointed out on mid-sized pro EFP cameras the record button is by the rocker zoom on the right side, and on professional stills cameras the record button is exactly where it is located on the Epic renders in the first post of this thread - on the top right/front, and alternately on the bottom right side if the stills camera has a dual battery enclosure - to easily enable portrait mode shooting.

I think its time for strictly cine-style shooters to quit thinking of Epic and Scarlet as being just designed for their industry, and realize that these DSMC (digital stills and motion cameras) are modular because they are equally designed for cine, hybrid, EFP, and stills production. Keeping that in mind, RED has provided a broad range of locations to put a record button, and it just seems to be cine guys complaining about not getting features exactly where they want.

I did a pretty fair amount of cine style shooting earlier in my career, but I've also done 35mm stills photography my entire career, EFP production for decades, and more recently with RED One, hybrid 35mm stills non-hardlined EFP style. Because I've done all the styles possible with these new cameras, and the cameras are extremely modular, I can see the reasoning for feature placement.

[Mark Pugh]

Hmmm...a left side record button is true for most cine cameras, but on full-sized professional EFP cameras the record button is on the front, as Tim pointed out on mid-sized pro EFP cameras the record button is by the rocker zoom on the right side, and on professional stills cameras the record button is exactly where it is located on the Epic renders in the first post of this thread - on the top right/front, and alternately on the bottom right side if the stills camera has a dual battery enclosure - to easily enable portrait mode shooting.


Steve this is my point - each of these different types of cameras have the button in the most ergonomically sensible position for that kind of shooting.

But I'd bet the farm that MOST SHOTS taken on Epics won't be in Portrait mode, or with the camera held out in front of the body like a DSLR, or even on the shoulder. They'll be taken on a head, in what you call "cine" style.

[Jannard]

Steve this is my point - each of these different types of cameras have the button in the most ergonomically sensible position for that kind of shooting.

But I'd bet the farm that MOST SHOTS taken on Epics won't be in Portrait mode, or with the camera held out in front of the body like a DSLR, or even on the shoulder. They'll be taken on a head, in what you call "cine" style.

Mark... listen up. ...never mind.

Jim

[David Mullen ASC]

Well, if the camera is sitting on a tripod head, is it really that critical where the button is? I seem to manage to find it whether I've got a Sony F900 or a Panaflex on the tripod...

[Jannard]

I love that the biggest complaint about our new program is that the button isn't in the right place (even though it can be)...

Jim

[Tim Whitcomb]

Steve this is my point - each of these different types of cameras have the button in the most ergonomically sensible position for that kind of shooting.

But I'd bet the farm that MOST SHOTS taken on Epics won't be in Portrait mode, or with the camera held out in front of the body like a DSLR, or even on the shoulder. They'll be taken on a head, in what you call "cine" style.

Hello!! the solution is called (wireless) REDMOTE!

you can walk around the set with REDMOTE and push record with your nose, if need be.

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=35013&highlight=redmote&page=3

[Steven Parker]

it's just muscle memory... you get used physically to shooting certain ways, not just start/stop buttons, but where the tripod legs are or expecting the body of the dolly to be underneath you instead of under the focus-puller...

cine-style guys can be picky... but we're picky for a reason ;)

at any rate, five options for placement of a record button seems plenty more than enough... especially if we can put it where it should be :reddevil:

[Mark Pugh]

Well, if the camera is sitting on a tripod head, is it really that critical where the button is?

No-one's saying it's life and death.

Anyway...

:beatdeadhorse5:

[Mark Pugh]

I love that the biggest complaint about our new program is that the button isn't in the right place (even though it can be)...

Jim

Jim, trust me, I LOVE IT TOO!!

[Blaire Johnson]

"...a left side record button is true for most cine cameras, but on full-sized professional EFP cameras the record button is on the front..."

You also have assignable buttons on the left side which one of them is ALWAYS Record. The potential problem with putting the RedMote in that spot will become apparent when we go hand held. It'll stick out too far because of the mounting bracket or if you velcro it it will want to be knocked off by the operator's face/nose.

If Red can build the camera with all the modules with a standard HH bracket, FF, MB, S4 or UP or even a Super Speed with the RedMote located in this position SHOWING us that that location is a workable solution then we'll all be satisfied. But until I see that configuration with my own eyes, I'm not going to believe that that is a solution.

Again, I don't need billions+ unworkable ways of building the camera that don't make sense, or whatever the last config count was. I only need 5... Studio, Hand Held, Steadicam, Crane, super stripped down for small spaces.

And saying "you can do it however you want" doesn't work for me. Because what I want to do is impossible because of the operators face is in the way. Show us this is possible!

Please! prove me wrong, I don't want to right if that means I can't have things as basic as proper Record button placement.

I know Panavision designed several cameras with only one REC switch in the back.... 30 years ago, when they were 30years less experienced. But they learned! Let's LEARN from THEIR mistakes, there's no reason to repeat them.

It's the 21st century folks... "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it" Edmund Burke. You guys just got a history lesson, so let's try doing things a better way than our predecessors, please!!!

[Ariana]

It's the 21st century folks... "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it" Edmund Burke. You guys just got a history lesson, so let's try doing things a better way than our predecessors, please!!!

Rule #1 of the art of persuasion (or getting what you want): Try not to be a douchebag.

Why are all your posts combatitive and negative? You're not helping the rest of us get what we want. Quite the opposite.

[Jannard]

You haven't figured out what the last method is... and now I'm not sayin'. :-)

Jim

[Justin O'Neill]

With all those motion sensors maybe it's like the iPhone and you shake the brain to start record!

[Kyle Presley]

Gunner?

[Steve Gibby]

Gunner?

Close...

My guess would be there is a record button on the top of the grip on the other side of the Gunner. The grip I'm talking about is the one that sticks out in the Epic/Gunner render at a 45 degree angle on the far side of the Gunner. I'm guessing that is an adjustable servozoom grip, the top of which has an interface with the gears of the lens ring - adjustable down a rail so you can attach it to either the zoom gear or focus gear. On the top of that grip/servozoom is a record button ergonomically placed for right thumb operation.

Maybe this is wishful thinking...but its a good idea nevertheless

[Steve Gibby]

But I'd bet the farm that MOST SHOTS taken on Epics won't be in Portrait mode, or with the camera held out in front of the body like a DSLR, or even on the shoulder. They'll be taken on a head, in what you call "cine" style.

I see this differently Mark. IMO there will be huge numbers of cross-style shooters maximizing the modularity and broad utility of Epic and Scarlet. The biggest challenge for most Epic and Scarlet adopters will be for themselves to have broad enough skill sets (and attitudes) to match the capabilities of the cameras. I not only see multi-skilled people converging, but those same people also simultaneously diversifying in the styles, setups, genres, and industries they work in. Yes, there will be a core of diehard cine workers who will resist the urge to diversify - but they will ultimately be in the small minority.

Both hybrid 35mm stills and EFP shooting with RED One have been widespread. But Epic and Scarlet will be much more hybrid-friendly and EFP-friendly than RED One. Then you add in the stills capability of these new DSMC cameras, and IMO someone who strictly shoots cine style with these cameras is not only missing the point of their modularity - but is also missing out on the broad revenue they can be used to generate.

Beyond their hand held and shoulder held shooting, stills shooters, EFP shooters, and hybrid 35mm still lens shooters will all shoot on tripods with Epic too. Tripod heads aren't unique to the cine industry...:)

This discussion seems to be somewhat moot though - it looks like Jim has one more undisclosed record button trick up his sleeve, and by the sounds of his post, it appears it may be something that will please the cine setup crowd.

[Adam Sparks]

You haven't figured out what the last method is... and now I'm not sayin'. :-)

Jim

iPhone app?

[Harry Clark]

I love that the biggest complaint about our new program is that the button isn't in the right place (even though it can be)...

Jim

That means you guys are doing something right! ;)
Cheers,
Harry

[Charles Angus]

What about...

A wireless RedRec button - just a little red thingy about the size of a quarter - stick it anywhere you want!

Only half joking... But seriously, there could not be any complaints about location after that.

[Martin Weiss]

A wireless RedRec button - just a little red thingy about the size of a quarter - stick it anywhere you want!
Since the Epic has Wifi, this should really be possible.


there could not be any complaints about location after that.
Trust me, there'll always be complaints ;)

[Juhan Malmstein]

Can someone please describe or illustrate where exactly, and how?
Any chance of a render?
Thanks.

MP

I can give you some ideas:

1) put some velcro on the back of the redmote, some velcro on the side cf module(or if you're not using the side cf module then to the side of the brain) and stick it to the side - won't extend out more than the thickness of the redmote and everything is right in front of you, on the LEFT side of the camera.

2) http://red.cachefly.net/A/Monster.jpg <-- replace the small touchscreen with the redmote(since it has a tripod hole on the underside it should be dead-easy)

3) since you seem to be obsessed with the studio and cine style, then you'll have rails under the lens all the time anyway, so why not take a magic arm and put the redmote on a magic arm(again utilizing the tripod threaded hole or whatever), on whichever side of the camera(set up either for you or the AC). Freely movable around with just the twist of a knob.

4) wait and see what kind of mounting/handle/rod options RED will release, I'm guessing there will be a motherload of options right there

5) use duct tape instead of velcro(for ghetto fabulous RED shooting)

6) put the redmote in your pocket and stand to the left of the camera(duh)

7) don't buy a redmote and shoot the brain upside down :willy_nilly: (cheap option)

8) get a camera crew assistant to tape the redmote to the back of his head and have him stand facing away from you in your reach all the time. That way you can even blame him if something is wrong.

the options are limitless. If I had the $$$ I'd most probably use option number 3 and stick the redmote on a magic arm, giving the interface of the camera in front of me at all times right next to or under or above the viewfinder / lcd.


EDIT: I completely forgot: TOUCHSCREEEEN. Im guessing at least 90% of Epic/scarlet shooters are going to use the new touchscreens. And unless you're putting the touchscreen on the right of the camera you're going to have all controls right there ANYWAY.

imagination, use it.

[Charles Angus]

Trust me, there'll always be complaints ;)

No more reasonable complaints... ;)

[Martin Weiss]

6) put the redmote in your pocket and stand to the left of the camera(duh)

7) don't buy a redmote and shoot the brain upside down :willy_nilly: (cheap option)

8) get a camera crew assistant to tape the redmote to the back of his head and have him stand facing away from you in your reach all the time. That way you can even blame him if something is wrong.

the options are limitless.

Priceless. Thank you for a good laugh, Juhan. :beer:

[DCC Erickson]

I can give you some ideas:

You must be the funniest guy on the shoot! And the handiest.

[Juhan Malmstein]

Film school in Eastern Europe is pretty much like a crash course in being a regular MacGyver. Especially when you have wonderful coursemates who face you with problems like: "I need a cable-camera setup over this 200 foot field and I only have max 100$ to spend on it". And when you do it, everybody is like: "I thought this would never work, but it did, so can you now set it up so that it runs through a window, so it could start from inside the room and then follow the actor outside the window when he's climbed out and running in that direction?".

[David Mullen ASC]

If the camera takes superior pictures over anything else on the market, I don't care where the REC button is... I'll find it even if it's in the next room!

[Esteban Sosnitsky]

More ideas:
*The new Bomb EVF could have a pressure switch that you push with your head towards the eyepiece to start stop the camera.

or

Be aware that you have 5 different options to make the camera go! :)
6 including the Origo if it works on this new cameras....

Actually, does anyone know if the Origo would work on the EPIC?

[Jim McKinney]

It's disappointing that there's not a start button on the left - but as long as there's one on the back, no big deal. And as David just said above, . . .

[Jannard]

It's disappointing that there's not a start button on the left - but as long as there's one on the back, no big deal. And as David just said above, . . .

Who said there is no start button on the left?

Jim

[Todd M.]

Who said there is no start button on the left?

Jim

On the EVF?

[J. Eric Camp]

Well even on the R1 you can program any user button to be a start/stop. So it might be the fact that any button can be a "make rocket go now."

Past that... I am sure there are lots of toys yet to be revealed. Jim said some time ago that anything we see in non production press releases is not their cutting edge. The best things will be announced right around production time.

[Shane Nassiri]

Red Thumb Module. Start and stop recording via thumb print recognition. Disable access to the camera without your thumb print scan.

[Jannard]

OK... I was going to save this one as a surprise BUT.

The CF Module (left side) was redesigned with two major changes awhile back. The EVF/LCD cable receiver was reversed making it easier to route the cable to more positions AND we added a run/stop button and two user buttons to the front of that side module, making it very easy to hit from the operator's side. So you have a ton of ways to get her going. Also... you can lock out any button from operating if it "gets in your way".

What this means is that you do NOT have this option if you remove the side CF Module... so we are making a side cover with these controls should you decide to remove it.

:-)

Jim

[Jared Caldwell]

OK... I was going to save this one as a surprise BUT.

The CF Module (left side) was redesigned with two major changes awhile back. The EVF/LCD cable receiver was reversed making it easier to route the cable to more positions AND we added a run/stop button and two user buttons to the front of that side module, making it very easy to hit from the operator's side. So you have a ton of ways to get her going. Also... you can lock out any button from operating if it "gets in your way".

What this means is that you do NOT have this option if you remove the side CF Module... so we are making a side cover with these controls should you decide to remove it.

:-)

Jim

That is pretty badass, Jim. I think I'm going to have a problem finding the time to make films as I fight the urge to figure out all the different ways I can set my baby up. :}

[Peter Mosiman]

OK... I was going to save this one as a surprise BUT.

The CF Module (left side) was redesigned with two major changes awhile back. The EVF/LCD cable receiver was reversed making it easier to route the cable to more positions AND we added a run/stop button and two user buttons to the front of that side module, making it very easy to hit from the operator's side. So you have a ton of ways to get her going. Also... you can lock out any button from operating if it "gets in your way".

What this means is that you do NOT have this option if you remove the side CF Module... so we are making a side cover with these controls should you decide to remove it.

:-)

Jim

IDK if anyone has ever told you Jim, but you are the man!! :thumbsup:

Also, modular was totally the best thing that ever happened to this program. Good work. Keep it up!

[Alan Zarnegar]

OK... I was going to save this one as a surprise BUT.

The CF Module (left side) was redesigned with two major changes awhile back. The EVF/LCD cable receiver was reversed making it easier to route the cable to more positions AND we added a run/stop button and two user buttons to the front of that side module, making it very easy to hit from the operator's side. So you have a ton of ways to get her going. Also... you can lock out any button from operating if it "gets in your way".

What this means is that you do NOT have this option if you remove the side CF Module... so we are making a side cover with these controls should you decide to remove it.

:-)

Jim

Jim,
You spoil us with your treats :)

[Mark Pugh]

we added a run/stop button and two user buttons to the front of that side module, making it very easy to hit from the operator's side.

:-)

Jim

Fantastic stuff Jim. Thanks

All you innovative guys who said you absolutely didn't need one on the left should be sent a CF module without the buttons though... hehe.

[Casey Green]

OK... I was going to save this one as a surprise BUT.

The CF Module (left side) was redesigned with two major changes awhile back. The EVF/LCD cable receiver was reversed making it easier to route the cable to more positions AND we added a run/stop button and two user buttons to the front of that side module, making it very easy to hit from the operator's side. So you have a ton of ways to get her going. Also... you can lock out any button from operating if it "gets in your way".

What this means is that you do NOT have this option if you remove the side CF Module... so we are making a side cover with these controls should you decide to remove it.

:-)

Jim

I can just picture Jim sitting in front of his Mac Pro making renders and lists of everything that needs to be addressed on the "to do" list.

It seems that any area that needs to be improved upon gets on this list and then it is just a matter of time before it is crossed off the list. I love the way you work!

[Kevin Olsen]

Also... you can lock out any button from operating if it "gets in your way".


Jim

Now that sounds awesome to me. It's like have a left and right hand drive car in one, pick your side.

KO

[Gino Papineau]

Everything in life changes... and it is a very good thing !

[Steve Gibby]

All you innovative guys who said you absolutely didn't need one on the left should be sent a CF module without the buttons though... hehe.

Actually its us innovative guys who should be sent a CF module with a record button as a reward for our willingness to maximize the other multiple record button options in such a modular camera. The CF modules without a record button should be sent to those who need to learn how to get out of their comfort zone and innovate. :)

Us innovative guys should also send our fellow innovative guys at RED a "Thank You" note for saving us from hearing so much whining from traditionalists who, though they're presented with an infinitely modular camera with multiple record button options, could only seem to figure out one way to setup and operate the camera :)

[Mark Pugh]

though they're presented with an infinitely modular camera with multiple record button options, could only seem to figure out one way to setup and operate the camera :)

Steve,

I afraid I don't see how liking a Run button on the left of a camera makes you unimaginative, ignorant of Red's vision, a hopeless traditionalist, a whiner, or the enemy of modular cameras.
There's some incredible attitude going on around here, smilies or no smilies.

Over the last few years I've regularly turned my camera setups into modular designs, separating Batteries and Drives up to 4 foot back from the lens with custom cables, and vertically also, into three points of mass along Steadicam lines. Sometimes it's on the shoulder. Sometimes I use Walter Klassen Steadicam vests with Easyrigs attached. Sometimes Kenyon Labs gyros as part of the balanced modular design. Surprisingly, I use a Remote switch to run the camera from the left, right, way back, and anywhere else my tiny mind can imagine.

This all started for me while shooting on the Viper, and when I first saw images of the future Red One back in '06 I instantly saw that here was a camera that I had been dreaming of. I sold my house and started buying Red Ones.
I can shoot handheld with 300mm lenses with these rigs, with no shakiness, and no Image Stabilized lenses (and without a gyro running).
It's a kind of extension of the methods used on, say, Slumdog Millionaire.

The Epic is a dream that will complete everything I've been wanting to achieve with the possibilities that a modular digital system can offer.

[Steve Gibby]

Mark,

“All you innovative guys who said you absolutely didn't need one on the left should be sent a CF module without the buttons though... hehe.”

After Jim’s CF mudule record button post, you sarcastically poked fun at those of us on the thread (myself, David Mullen, etc.) who said we would be fine with the other record options. So I simply poked fun back at you with my post, with smiles after each paragraph. Now you come back at me with “There’s some incredible attitude going on here, smiles or no smiles”. Seems like the “attitude” here is yours Mark…

Let’s review our interchange on this thread:
In your post #1 on this thread you described the need for a left side record button in tripod work. In my post #18 of this thread I illustrated the many other techniques for using a DSMC camera for which the announced record button options were fine, and addressed the utility and modularity options of DSMC cameras. In my post #34 I described the many other locations a record button is on the other industries that a DSMC camera can be used in – EFP, Stills, etc. In your post #35, which quoted my Post #34, you made unsupported claims, feeling the need to use shouting capital letters, that with Epic wouldn’t be used often in stills mode, hand held, or on the shoulder, but mostly on a tripod head in cine style. In my post #49 I disagreed with your post #34, illustrating the broad stills, hybrid, and EFP use of the DSMC cameras, along with alternate techniques for handling the cameras – then also pointed out that all industry styles of using a DSMC could also involve using a tripod. Then in your post #70 after Jim’s announcement of the CF record button, which I quoted above, you took your sarcastic jab at myself, David Mullen, and the others who said they could operate just fine with the other five record options.

So Mark, who’s got the attitude on this thread? Who minimized and criticized the other industries converging to use the DSMC cameras? Who felt the need to shout in capital letters? You did…and that illustrates “attitude”.

Thanks for the paragraph about your versatility with RED One and your sacrifice and commitment to get one. We’ve all sacrificed to get into our RED cameras. I’ve worked for 40 years in still photography, and over 30 years in motion media – cine, EFP, and more recently hybrid production. Most guys my age (61), with my experience level, are what you could safely call “traditionalists”. But while I’m very traditional, I’m also very progressive and open to innovation. In fact, there is probably nobody using a RED who has put it in more different environments, used more different techniques, in a broader array of genres than I have – and nobody but a few RED Team members have used RED cameras for a longer per period of time than I have. In camera work, I’m known for a broad array of setups and techniques – tripod, hand held, shoulder held, aerial, in-water, jib, Steadicam, and on and on. Me and one of my RED cameras (#8), along with RED #13, shot the first ever RED 3D footage – on 9/1/07 at Paradise FX. Me and my crew shot the first ever RED aerial footage in early December 2007 in Hawaii. The very first RED underwater housing was made from one of my RED cameras (#8) by Mike Hastings (9/07), and the first RED underwater footage was also shot with one of my RED cameras in that same housing (9/07). I co-Executive Produced the very first group field test of RED cameras (L.A. RED Test, 12/07). I could go on and on with the “firsts” and “innovations” I’ve spearheaded with RED – and I’ll do the same with Epic and Scarlet.

I’ve been giving RED suggestions for RED One since 2005. I was also one of the few invited guys to the very first think tank about RED, on December 14, 2005 at Oakley headquarters. I wrote most of the early magazine articles about the RED camera, in 2006 and 2007, and I conducted and published the first magazine interview with Jim Jannard in early 2006.

Lets put this matter to rest. I have no personal axe to grind with you Mark. I think its great RED has now provided one more record button option with the new cameras. You use RED (and Epic) the way you want, and my crews and me will do the same.

[Martin Weiss]

I think we can all agree now that there'll be plenty enough buttons on the new cameras.

No need to take it further, especially when it starts going into the personal direction.