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View Full Version : RedRocket integration by Maquise Technologies : MIST



Damien Molineaux
11-10-2009, 02:35 AM
Hi,
We just got a visit from Dan Tatut, previously from Chrome Imaging, makers of the high end Matrix color correction solution. He recently founded a new company : "Marquise technologies" : http://www.marquise-tech.com

Their first product, rewritten form the ground up, is called MIST as in Media/Ingest/Stream/Transcode. It is based on Bluefish, NVidia and RedRocket hardware and allows realtime transcode of numerous formats, including .r3d

Marquise is aiming at a wider clientele than was Chrome Imaging (price wise). Their solution presently allows realtime primaries and they are working on a realtime full blown color correction software. A demo is planned, here in Geneva, before years end. I will keep you posted.

Cheers,
Damien Molineaux

Disclaimer : I have no ties what so ever with Marquise Technologies.

Vincent 'Vince' Rudaz
11-12-2009, 03:40 AM
seems to be a serious tool. Accidentally I found their group on FaceBook here: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=166901767102

apparently it can be used as virtual VTR for Red files. I'll try to get a demo and post some reviews here.

Vince
DIT

Vincent 'Vince' Rudaz
11-15-2009, 07:14 AM
Ok.. I asked for a demo license for my new Mac Pro with 8 Cores! Eager to test it next week with some R3D files. Meanwhile, here are some screenshots stolen from their website. The UI shows some nice and sexy controls for the R3D clip color & denoise parameters.

While I am at it, is there anyone with a RedRocket in Switzerland? I'm seriously thinking about buying one myself..

Vince
DIT

Disclaimer: I do not work for Marquise Technologies in any way

Damien Molineaux
11-18-2009, 06:48 AM
Well, there's at least one at Marquise Technologies. We'll probably be aquiring one sometime in the begining of 2010, and I wouldn't be surprised if there were some others in other parts of Switzerland.

Cheers,
Damien

dtatut
11-20-2009, 08:21 AM
Hi guys!

thanks for your interest in our product.

RC9 is out with support for the RedRocket. Anyone willing to test is welcome and can request a demo license here: license@marquise-tech.com

Dan

RRafael
11-21-2009, 07:55 AM
Run in windows 7? Or vista? Work with redrocket windows drivers?

dtatut
11-22-2009, 07:10 AM
@RRafael: for now it runs on XP and Win7. No plans for Vista. If you have a RedRocket, the Windows drivers must be installed in order to make it available to the software

Dan

Vincent 'Vince' Rudaz
11-24-2009, 01:23 AM
I got my license for MIST and it's really a nice tool! Congratulations guys! The UI is gorgeous and my dual i7 Mac delivers great performance with the R3D files. I'm now seriously thinking about the Rocket but I do have some questions.

Do you guys only output on the SDI of the rocket? As far as I understand only the decoded images get displayed on the SDI but what about the extra color corrections? Do I need an Nvidia with SDI output or a BlueFish?

Vince

dtatut
11-24-2009, 08:19 AM
@Vince: we don't control directly the SDI out of the rocket. It outputs the decoded/scaled images by itself (depending on what you set as parameters). However if you need to use the extra color corrections tools in MIST, you will get the output only through the Nvidia's SDI output or the BlueFish SDI output.

I hope that answers your question.

Dan

Gunleik Groven
11-24-2009, 08:28 AM
So, does this run under OSX?
In case, what hardware specs?

Or under bootcamp?

Ditto?

Cheers!

Gunleik

dtatut
11-24-2009, 08:45 AM
@Gunleik: sorry no OSX version for now... but works fine under Bootcamp/Windows. We have 2 MacPros here in the office with BootCamp installed and works very fine.

Dan

craigjkharris
11-24-2009, 10:18 AM
When using Bootcamp/Windows on a MAC, do you still get the realtime benefits of the RED Rocket? Are there any drawback of anykind when using it on a MAC w/Bootcamp?

Also curious wether or not MIST will support any AJA or Blackmagic cards? Bluefish doesn't offer any HD or 2K solutions for MAC users.

dtatut
11-24-2009, 10:48 AM
@craigjharris: we did not observe problems with the machines we have here. I mean not problems that are not known yet regarding the RED Rocket. But again the Apple machines we have here are the top of the line. I guess on a small machine you may experience problems but that can be an issue related to the software performance on the machine and not necessarily the rocket.

regarding other i/o boards, we plan AJA and Blackmagic, but we did not set a calendar yet. And Bluefish supports Mac users: http://www.bluefish444.com/support/compatibility/hardware/systems_mac.asp

Dan

Gunleik Groven
11-24-2009, 11:19 AM
Sorry for my ignorance, but is Bluefish like the AJA/BM cards, or is it a GPU replacement? (I think the former, but sometimes stupid questions have to be asked...)

dtatut
11-24-2009, 11:23 AM
@gunleik: Bluefish is another brand like AJA/BM. Not a GPU replacement. We handle it for video i/o. But if you need only SDI out you have the choice between BlueFish (in our case), or the Nvidia Quadro or the Rocket's SDI out (limited to the decoded image only, not post-decode processing).

Chris Parker
11-24-2009, 12:08 PM
what other software could this be categorized with:

- REDCine (deluxe version)?
- Clipfinder?
- ScratchCine?

What's it main purpose?

dtatut
11-24-2009, 01:48 PM
@Chris: the purpose of MIST is to be a virtual telecine. R3D handling and RedRocket support is just one of the features of MIST. These options turn our product into a DI deck for Red and then the uses are multiple. From dailies/QC/reviewing to conforming and playout to SDI.

I don't see MIST as a competitor to the products you mentioned because we do not handle only R3D files.

For example some people use MIST along with Scratch/FCP/DaVinci 2K.

Dan

craigjkharris
11-24-2009, 02:11 PM
On the Bluefish website, it only shows "SD" Standard Definition as being available to MAC users.

dtatut
11-24-2009, 02:15 PM
@craig: I guess drivers for Mac are on the way for their new product range. But since we are not on Mac for now, that was not so relevant... However the HD/2K boards on a Mac with Windows/Bootcamp work fine of course.

Dan

craigjkharris
11-24-2009, 02:33 PM
Would this work for a RED grading & dailies workflow?
Any drawbacks to this for a realtime 2-4K workflow?

- MIST w/Rocket Support
- MacPro Tower - Quad Core Intel Xeon
- RED Rocket Card
- Bootcamp w/Windows (7; XP; etc)

dtatut
11-25-2009, 03:09 AM
@Craig: yes your configuration will work fine. However for 4K, it's not just the RED Rocket that counts but also the graphics card (e.g. Nvidia). A low-cost graphics card will not have good transfer rates for this, so consider buying a 4800 if you want problem-less display and grading of 4K files at 1:1 scale.

BUT!!! It's not necessary if you think about it.. Your screen will not be able to display 4K anyway. So what you can do is use the downscaling option in MIST and display at 2K which is something that most graphics cards can do without a problem nowadays.

There is a Dynamic Resolution option in MIST that will switch dynamically to 2K during playback/grading and back to 4K when you stop. In other words, you don't need to empty your pockets when you do not necessarily need to....

Dan

Lucas Wilson
11-25-2009, 09:13 AM
@Craig: yes your configuration will work fine.

Hi Dan,

With that configuration, how would you output SDI?

Lucas

Gabriele Turchi
11-25-2009, 09:28 AM
For example some people use MIST along with Scratch/FCP/DaVinci 2K.

Dan

how this cam be used with scratch?
i mean for what purpose?

thanks

g

dtatut
11-25-2009, 10:01 AM
@Lucas: hi! please elaborate your question so I can reply properly.

@Gabriele: some people use it to relieve Scratch from basic tasks and video I/O, it's not "connected" directly to Scratch. It's a question of having a small tool and save the Scratch station for more demanding jobs (secondary color correction, etc)

Gabriele Turchi
11-25-2009, 10:04 AM
Hi,
i do have scratch (so i knew that i snot integrated) , but i guess i was asking what task might replace and why...(just trying to understand if i need it...)

PS:Price range?
Thanks

g

craigjkharris
11-25-2009, 10:21 AM
Hi Dan,

With that configuration, how would you output SDI?

Lucas

It will be interesting to see which developer (Scratch; MIST; Iridas) comes out with the first MAC friendly solution. Iridas has some great tools that work with MAC, but the SDI OUT is still an issue due to Nvidia + MAC not having a solution. At this point, MIST seems closer and more willing to please MAC users than Scratch. I read that MIST is considering supporting AJA & BlackMagic cards. If you could debayer all RED footage with the Rocket and then have deck control and have SDI out with a Kona or Decklink... that would be awesome.

dtatut
11-25-2009, 10:31 AM
@craig: just to make things clear: we do not support the SDI out of the Nvidia on Mac OSX. Only under Windows. Our software only runs on Windows (and Linux soon, Mac will come later).

As it has been said here a great number of times by Lucas Wilson, that's an issue related to Apple's refusal to have that thing certified. However, Nvidia officials like to say that it will happen very soon.

We also do not target Mac users against PC users. The reality is that Red has dragged a lot of Mac guys in this field. I know only few DoPs that do not own a Mac and of course the efforts made by Red to have Apple as a platform of choice for Red is also a good reason.

The Red community is very active here on this very forum. But we also support other formats. We don't make just a Red-dedicated tool...

Dan

Lucas Wilson
11-25-2009, 10:57 AM
@Lucas: hi! please elaborate your question so I can reply properly.

Hi Dan,

You had said that Craig's MacPro Tower configuration would work with a RED grading and dailies configuration. For Grading and Dailies work, SDI is essential as a stable color reference. Putting an Nvidia SDI card in a Tower means that you can't boot successfully into OSX.

So I was wondering how you were getting SDI out of that particular configuration.

I know MIST is not on OSX, so obviously getting SDI out of Windows is not an issue. This was a question just targeted at that specific configuration.

Lucas

craigjkharris
11-25-2009, 11:00 AM
Hi Dan,

With that configuration, how would you output SDI?

Lucas


@craig: just to make things clear: we do not support the SDI out of the Nvidia on Mac OSX. Only under Windows. Our software only runs on Windows (and Linux soon, Mac will come later).

As it has been said here a great number of times by Lucas Wilson, that's an issue related to Apple's refusal to have that thing certified. However, Nvidia officials like to say that it will happen very soon.

We also do not target Mac users against PC users. The reality is that Red has dragged a lot of Mac guys in this field. I know only few DoPs that do not own a Mac and of course the efforts made by Red to have Apple as a platform of choice for Red is also a good reason.

The Red community is very active here on this very forum. But we also support other formats. We don't make just a Red-dedicated tool...

Dan

Understood.
I didn't mean to sound like MIST is a MAC software. I am well aware of that. However, the fact that you are considering supporting MAC is a big positive!
If Nvidia comes out with a MAC compatible SDI card that would be a big help.



Craig

M Most
11-25-2009, 11:13 AM
Understood.
I didn't mean to sound like MIST is a MAC software. I am well aware of that. However, the fact that you are considering supporting MAC is a big positive!
If Nvidia comes out with a MAC compatible SDI card that would be a big help.


"Considering" is very different than committing. Every software company considers all possibilities, particularly if those possibilities are well entrenched in a particular market segment. Anyone wanting to participate in the high end world "considers" Linux. Anyone wanting to participate in the "do it yourself" world "considers" Apple. Anyone wanting to participate in the general consumer market and/or the business world "considers" Windows. And that consideration comes regardless of what platform the program originates on. There is also the movement to platform agnostic support, exemplified by Google. Of course, anything that is even remotely hardware dependent is going to find that route very challenging. But in general, any statement of platform "consideration" is more of a courtesy than a strategic roadmap, especially when the platform being considered doesn't currently have support for required hardware.

Simon Blackledge
11-25-2009, 01:09 PM
No the mac doesn't, but Autodesk worked round it and I bet they weren't even considering year back.

I think to be fair the fxguide ep on smokeonamac actually pointed out that it's not just the nvidia sdi card on mac thats an issue.

s

Gabriele Turchi
11-25-2009, 01:13 PM
Den,
i do have scratch (so i knew that i snot integrated) , but i guess i was asking what task might replace and why...(just trying to understand if i need it...)

PS:Price range?
Thanks

g

dtatut
11-25-2009, 02:23 PM
"Considering" is very different than committing. Every software company considers all possibilities, particularly if those possibilities are well entrenched in a particular market segment. Anyone wanting to participate in the high end world "considers" Linux. Anyone wanting to participate in the "do it yourself" world "considers" Apple. Anyone wanting to participate in the general consumer market and/or the business world "considers" Windows. And that consideration comes regardless of what platform the program originates on. There is also the movement to platform agnostic support, exemplified by Google. Of course, anything that is even remotely hardware dependent is going to find that route very challenging. But in general, any statement of platform "consideration" is more of a courtesy than a strategic roadmap, especially when the platform being considered doesn't currently have support for required hardware.

We consider OSX seriously but we are a small company and we made the decision to go with Windows first because of various reasons. Among these reasons are the overall price of a decent system, the budget of the typical user, etc. Linux was second because of other market segments that we address and that are not related to Red. Mac last because of the hardware limitations that exist for the moment. We strongly believe that Apple will open the gates to manufacturers like Nvidia (it finally happened for the Quadro 4800). Until then we have to put other platform on the top of the list. I'm quite sure that Assimilate will also jump on the opportunity when it pops up. But it would be better to ask Lucas about this ;)

@Gabriele: sorry that I missed your post. So... would you need such a tool? well it depends a lot on your workflow, jobs etc. You can contact me directly at: dtatut@marquise-tech.com if you want to discuss that privately. Price-wise MIST goes from Euro 500.- to Euro 8'000, depending on the version and options.

Dan

Vincent 'Vince' Rudaz
12-03-2009, 06:44 AM
Hi Dan,

I heard that you and the team have been part of the shooting of Lester (http://www.imaginastudio.com/fr/_index-makingoflester.html), a short feature shot with the RedOne.

Did you use MIST on set? Can you share some more info with us? As a DIT, this is the kind of information that I'm looking for.

Thanks

Vince

dtatut
12-06-2009, 11:57 AM
Hi Vincent,

yes indeed, we have been invited on the set to test-drive MIST in parallel of the shooting. The camera crew and the DITs organised the workflow in advance and we joined as a last minute add-on for them.

Basically the MIST station was connected to the Mac station that was operated by one of the DITs. The R3D files went through 2 generations of backup and we got the 3rd generation through the Ethernet connection.

The DoP and the director used the MIST station during the shooting days for several reasons:

1) playback the freshly recorded media
2) to use previously recorded media as reference for lighting new scenes and make sure possible mistakes could be avoided
3) to test the limits of the lighting conditions to minimize the noise of the camera (the movie is a story about a vampire, so the scenes were very dark with some high-contrast lighting when the story required that)
4) to review scene details for story continuity (essenially used by the director and his assistant)
5) and finally for testing possible looks in post and even quick editing to test the dynamics of a scene.

We will have a full case study published soon. Just stay tuned

Dan

jake blackstone
12-06-2009, 07:33 PM
Any panel support? Conform with verification?

dtatut
12-09-2009, 11:08 AM
@jake: we support Tangent Devices CP100. CP200 and Wave are being added these days. Regarding conforming, it's part of the core software.

Dan

dtatut
01-29-2010, 07:05 AM
as promised a while ago, here is the case study about MIST on set playing with R3D files.

http://www.marquise-tech.com/download/CaseStudy_Lester.pdf

Do not hesitate to ask questions.

Dan

dtatut
01-31-2010, 08:36 AM
for those of you willing to have more details about the handling of R3D files, we have added a tutorial about how to conform a project made with FCP. There are also details about the options MIST has to handle the files with or without the RedRocket.

You can get it here: http://www.marquise-tech.com/solution/solution_red.html

Luca Immesi
01-31-2010, 09:42 AM
Do you plan to add secondary CC?

dtatut
02-08-2010, 02:08 AM
@Luca: sorry for the delay. MIST will only handle primary CC because it's a virtual telecine with remote control capabilities. Another product is on the way with a complete set of CC tools, including secondary CC. More info to follow soon.

jake blackstone
02-08-2010, 05:15 AM
I had requested a demo license, but, unfortunately, I got no response...

dtatut
02-08-2010, 06:10 AM
@jake: sorry for this. Let me check if our spam filter rejected your request.

PS: you have a PM

Vincent 'Vince' Rudaz
03-30-2010, 02:15 AM
Will you guys be at NAB this year?

dtatut
03-30-2010, 10:24 AM
yes we will be at NAB, booth SL 9712 (South Hall)

We will be showing a couple of things, including MIST and Red workflows. More information here: http://www.marquise-tech.com/events.html

Dan

Rainer Fritz
03-31-2010, 07:34 AM
Dan, any MAC version on the radar ?